NFT: how does one rationalize this: Shooting instructor dies

name of the ranger? Bullets and Burgers.

These places exist all over the country. I'm actually shocked accidents don't happen more often.

In comment 11827172 Csonka said:

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There's no reason for a 9 year old to be anywhere near a loaded gun. Gun safety? How 'bout keeping it out of their hands? Why don't you take her out for a drive and throw back a few beers while you're at it. Just because you shot a .22 when you were 7 doesn't rationalize this. I slept on a mattress in the back of a station wagon on long trips as a kid. Yeah, and I didn't die because we didn't get in an accident. But I know I'm not taking that risk with my kids. Why anyone feels the need to have their 9 year old shot a gun is beyond my comprehension.

I think 20-30 years ago most gun enthusiasts will be phased out. There have been obvious strides in the last decade or so in both gun awareness and gun laws. It's going to take time but eventually, thankfully, I think it no longer be such a big part of our culture.

20 to 30 years FROM NOW.. not "ago."

In comment 11827186 Mike in Long Beach said:

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I think 20-30 years ago most gun enthusiasts will be phased out. There have been obvious strides in the last decade or so in both gun awareness and gun laws. It's going to take time but eventually, thankfully, I think it no longer be such a big part of our culture.

Think again, sparky. Your side is losing, in case you haven't noticed.

In comment 11827172 Csonka said:

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There's no reason for a 9 year old to be anywhere near a loaded gun. Gun safety? How 'bout keeping it out of their hands? Why don't you take her out for a drive and throw back a few beers while you're at it. Just because you shot a .22 when you were 7 doesn't rationalize this. I slept on a mattress in the back of a station wagon on long trips as a kid. Yeah, and I didn't die because we didn't get in an accident. But I know I'm not taking that risk with my kids. Why anyone feels the need to have their 9 year old shot a gun is beyond my comprehension.

There are hazards all around. You can hermetically seal your child until his 18th birthday and release him and expect him to function in society or you can let him try things, even dangerous things, under close supervision. We have a tendency to misapprehend risk; some of the activities that we judge to be routine can be a lot more dangerous than the ones some of us deem unconscionable.

In comment 11827186 Mike in Long Beach said:

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I think 20-30 years ago most gun enthusiasts will be phased out. There have been obvious strides in the last decade or so in both gun awareness and gun laws. It's going to take time but eventually, thankfully, I think it no longer be such a big part of our culture.

You say that now, but wait until there's a zombie apocalypse and see how hard it is to defense one self against zombies and assholes without guns...;)

do all the gun rights people on here agree that it should be illegal for a person under 16 to handle an automatic weapon like this?

if not 16
what about 12??

seriously would a law like this trapple your 2nd amendment rights?

on some sort of a stand and only able to be pointed in one general direction, towards the target. Forget the kid what if some maniac shows up and says lets go shooting. Hell even the BB air rifles on the boardwalk are chained down so they can only be pointed at the target.

In comment 11827200 giantfanboy said:

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do all the gun rights people on here agree that it should be illegal for a person under 16 to handle an automatic weapon like this? if not 16 what about 12?? seriously would a law like this trapple your 2nd amendment rights?

I'll go one step further. I think it should be illegal for any civilian (no matter the age) to own or handle an automatic weapon (and I mean the proper definition of an automatic weapon). No reason for anyone outside of the military or even specialized law enforcement teams to have access to automatic weapon.

In comment 11827200 giantfanboy said:

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do all the gun rights people on here agree that it should be illegal for a person under 16 to handle an automatic weapon like this? if not 16 what about 12?? seriously would a law like this trapple your 2nd amendment rights?

To the extent that I'm a gun rights person, I don't think any civilian needs access to heavy weaponry or explosives. Frankly I'm not sure an LEO needs automatic weaponry either. These are tools of waging war. A rifle, even a semi-automatic one ("assault weapon" though it may be), a shotgun, or a pistol can do pretty much everything you need or want to do for sport or for defense, or for food where that is the practice. Having access to fully automatic weapons reeks more of mall ninja than of anything else.

It's not exactly a widespread problem. Very few people legally own an automatic weapon, so the only way most people could fire one is at a range that rents them. And out of that small group, I'd wager most of them would not allow such a young child to fire one.

I don't think (we?) are though. The awareness alone for the sheer idiocy of our gun culture compared with other nations is more than has ever existed prior. The death tolls speak for themselves. There have been more restrictions over the last 10 years, not less. I think it's a long way away, but I do think it's in the making.

In comment 11827210 Dunedin81 said:

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Having access to fully automatic weapons reeks more of mall ninja than of anything else.

Not true. I absolutely need an M2 mounted on my roof so I'll be prepared when the looters come someday.

In comment 11827186 Mike in Long Beach said:

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In comment 11827172 Csonka said: Quote: There's no reason for a 9 year old to be anywhere near a loaded gun. Gun safety? How 'bout keeping it out of their hands? Why don't you take her out for a drive and throw back a few beers while you're at it. Just because you shot a .22 when you were 7 doesn't rationalize this. I slept on a mattress in the back of a station wagon on long trips as a kid. Yeah, and I didn't die because we didn't get in an accident. But I know I'm not taking that risk with my kids. Why anyone feels the need to have their 9 year old shot a gun is beyond my comprehension. I think 20-30 years ago most gun enthusiasts will be phased out. There have been obvious strides in the last decade or so in both gun awareness and gun laws. It's going to take time but eventually, thankfully, I think it no longer be such a big part of our culture.

The way things are going with the Constitution, I wouldn't be surprised if in Obama's 5th term you might be right

In comment 11827213 Mike in Long Beach said:

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I don't think (we?) are though. The awareness alone for the sheer idiocy of our gun culture compared with other nations is more than has ever existed prior. The death tolls speak for themselves. There have been more restrictions over the last 10 years, not less. I think it's a long way away, but I do think it's in the making.

Where do you live? I'd wager a guess that has a lot to do with who you think is winning or losing.

In comment 11827215 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 11827210 Dunedin81 said: Quote: Having access to fully automatic weapons reeks more of mall ninja than of anything else. Not true. I absolutely need an M2 mounted on my roof so I'll be prepared when the looters come someday.

Be a better shot.

New York City.

Not familiar with McDonald v. Chicago or Heller v. District of Columbia, I take it? Here, junior, do some reading:

Heller

McDonald

In comment 11827225 Mike in Long Beach said:

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New York City.

Yep...exactly Dune's point.

it may happen slowly in accord with a demographic reduction in the amount of fiery rural white people as a percentage of the population, but a carnal overcompensation for insecurities (height, penis size, a fear of that very demographic reduction, what have you) seems a rather lasting societal dynamic. Wayne La Pierre will be around long after Wayne La Pierre.

Agreed this tragedy is on the Darwin-award winning instructor. Oh and the absence of sensible laws, stifled ad nauseum by the aforementioned clan.

Federal law allows for ownership of automatic weapons, but many states have made those laws more strict, and reasonably so. Practically, they are hard to come by and in most cases very expensive and require separate licensing. Instead of idiots like Malloy banning "assault weapons", that would have been a more constructive route to go.

That qualifies me as a sniper in the Army though, doesn't it? hah

There's some validity in that, absolutely.

I'm on the Internet all day though. My opinion on the world isn't based on what I'm hearing on "the streets of New York."

In comment 11827232 Overseer said:

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it may happen slowly in accord with a demographic reduction in the amount of fiery rural white people as a percentage of the population.

Hey, you know the McDonald case I linked? Here's a picture of fiery rural white man Otis McDonald:

In comment 11827232 Overseer said:

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it may happen slowly in accord with a demographic reduction in the amount of fiery rural white people as a percentage of the population, but a carnal overcompensation for insecurities (height, penis size, a fear of that very demographic reduction, what have you) seems a rather lasting societal dynamic. Wayne La Pierre will be around long after Wayne La Pierre. Agreed this tragedy is on the Darwin-award winning instructor. Oh and the absence of sensible laws, stifled ad nauseum by the aforementioned clan.

I hear ya. I know there are a lot of wanna-be cowboys out there. Maybe it's further away than I'm hoping. Hopefully once this older generation of gun enthusiasts are fazed out, the next one won't so closely associate owning a gun with being a man and will just like to go to the range every now and then.

Who knows.

In comment 11827237 Greg from LI said:

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That qualifies me as a sniper in the Army though, doesn't it? hah

Ask any soldier what iron sights are, and they'll give you a blank stare...;)

Gun control in this country originated as a means to disarm black men.

So why are you such a racist, Overseer?

In comment 11827186 Mike in Long Beach said:

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I think 20-30 years ago most gun enthusiasts will be phased out. There have been obvious strides in the last decade or so in both gun awareness and gun laws. It's going to take time but eventually, thankfully, I think it no longer be such a big part of our culture.

Wow. You really have no clue.

In comment 11827242 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 11827232 Overseer said: Quote: it may happen slowly in accord with a demographic reduction in the amount of fiery rural white people as a percentage of the population. Hey, you know the McDonald case I linked? Here's a picture of fiery rural white man Otis McDonald:

But does he have a small penis and issues with his manhood? You know, those other intelligent debating points mentioned?

.

In comment 11827244 Mike in Long Beach said:

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I hear ya. I know there are a lot of wanna-be cowboys out there. Maybe it's further away than I'm hoping. Hopefully once this older generation of gun enthusiasts are fazed out, the next one won't so closely associate owning a gun with being a man and will just like to go to the range every now and then. Who knows.

Stuff like this don't really help in a productive discussion. I don't think any one of us on this thread who own guns are wannabe cowboys or have associated being a man with owning guns...or having to compensate for penis size (well, maybe me since I'm Asian) or any of the other disparaging descriptor of gun owners.

Maybe providing sound reasoning behind your own side will help more than to go down the road of Pork and Bean and other gun-control backers.

In comment 11827240 Mike in Long Beach said:

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There's some validity in that, absolutely. I'm on the Internet all day though. My opinion on the world isn't based on what I'm hearing on "the streets of New York."

I'm not saying you do, but you can lead just as restricted/sheltered an existence on the internet as you can in your neighborhood. Most people basically visit sites that they already agree with and validate their existing opinions.

In comment 11827259 Mike in Long Beach said:

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Hmmm...because you reference the exact quote stating that?

In comment 11827262 Bill in UT said:

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In comment 11827240 Mike in Long Beach said: Quote: There's some validity in that, absolutely. I'm on the Internet all day though. My opinion on the world isn't based on what I'm hearing on "the streets of New York." I'm not saying you do, but you can lead just as restricted/sheltered an existence on the internet as you can in your neighborhood. Most people basically visit sites that they already agree with and validate their existing opinions.

Haha well, I'm on BBI often, so I think it's safe to say I don't do that :)

In comment 11827259 Mike in Long Beach said:

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I don't believe I was the first to mention it.....apology accepted?

.

In comment 11827259 Mike in Long Beach said:

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We all have our own hobbies and interests and shouldn't judge others for them.

I have in all my time here on BBI. I apologize. I'm just extremely fustrated atm and let it get the better of me.

In comment 11827244 Mike in Long Beach said:

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In comment 11827232 Overseer said: Quote: the next one won't so closely associate owning a gun with being a man

If being a man means being able to protect yourself and your family, color me guilty

It is so out of place to any intelligent debate, it was a reasonable question - any chance you ask the same of the person that brought it up?

In comment 11827232 Overseer said:

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it may happen slowly in accord with a demographic reduction in the amount of fiery rural white people as a percentage of the population, but a carnal overcompensation for insecurities (height, penis size, a fear of that very demographic reduction, what have you) seems a rather lasting societal dynamic. Wayne La Pierre will be around long after Wayne La Pierre. Agreed this tragedy is on the Darwin-award winning instructor. Oh and the absence of sensible laws, stifled ad nauseum by the aforementioned clan.

What an absurd post.

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I don't think any one of us on this thread who own guns are wannabe cowboys or have associated being a man with owning guns.

Surely you can recognize the difference between every day gun owners - those who own them for practical (defense) or hobby related reasons (I dig the range myself) - and gun "enthusiasts" for whom firearms are elevated to a cause.

If you want to argue that the latter faction is a desirable counterweight to a would-be over-reach by control legislators, okay. But at this point it's rather clearly undebatable that their unyielding crusade against the kinds of laws that might keep an Uzi out of a 9 y/o's hands has wreaked harm.

In comment 11827186 Mike in Long Beach said:

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In comment 11827172 Csonka said: Quote: There's no reason for a 9 year old to be anywhere near a loaded gun. Gun safety? How 'bout keeping it out of their hands? Why don't you take her out for a drive and throw back a few beers while you're at it. Just because you shot a .22 when you were 7 doesn't rationalize this. I slept on a mattress in the back of a station wagon on long trips as a kid. Yeah, and I didn't die because we didn't get in an accident. But I know I'm not taking that risk with my kids. Why anyone feels the need to have their 9 year old shot a gun is beyond my comprehension. I think 20-30 years ago most gun enthusiasts will be phased out. There have been obvious strides in the last decade or so in both gun awareness and gun laws. It's going to take time but eventually, thankfully, I think it no longer be such a big part of our culture.

gun ownership and applications for gun ownership are rising rapidly, feverishly.

In comment 11827290 Rob in NYC said:

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It is so out of place to any intelligent debate, it was a reasonable question - any chance you ask the same of the person that brought it up?

Doing so wouldn't support my narrative here.

In all seriousness though, yes.. Overseer, probably best to leave out dick references when arguing against gun law, or any law (sorry Brett).

the "what have you" in the parenthetical addition was an indication that dick size could be one of many profound insecurities for which a fiery gun nut must overcompensate.

It's most certainly possible one would not need a NASA telescope to view La Pierre's junk and that he's all Patrick Ewing down there. Maybe he's a shitty father and his kids hate him. Or a Redskins fan.

In comment 11827293 Overseer said:

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Quote: I don't think any one of us on this thread who own guns are wannabe cowboys or have associated being a man with owning guns. Surely you can recognize the difference between every day gun owners - those who own them for practical (defense) or hobby related reasons (I dig the range myself) - and gun "enthusiasts" for whom firearms are elevated to a cause. If you want to argue that the latter faction is a desirable counterweight to a would-be over-reach by control legislators, okay. But at this point it's rather clearly undebatable that their unyielding crusade against the kinds of laws that might keep an Uzi out of a 9 y/o's hands has wreaked harm.

My father in law is an "enthusiast" but he is very stringent about securing firearms and handling them safely. It's not incompatible. And most firearm enthusiasts I have talked to on the subject think those jackasses walking through Walmart with AR-15s or making similarly over the top public demonstrations of their ability to open carry are just that, jackasses.

I feel bad that she has to live with this and deal with all the issues around it. Probably needs therapy.

And of course they are from New Jersey!


On the other side - the instructor and business are complete morons. Darwin wins again!

are entertaining this cockfuck troll's idiotic question.

In comment 11827293 Overseer said:

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Surely you can recognize the difference between every day gun owners - those who own them for practical (defense) or hobby related reasons (I dig the range myself) - and gun "enthusiasts" for whom firearms are elevated to a cause. If you want to argue that the latter faction is a desirable counterweight to a would-be over-reach by control legislators, okay. But at this point it's rather clearly undebatable that their unyielding crusade against the kinds of laws that might keep an Uzi out of a 9 y/o's hands has wreaked harm.

I'm with you with regards to people who go overboard with their "right to bear arms" argument. I don't think there's any reason why someone should feel that they can and should be allowed to carry a rifle slung on their back to a grocery store or any public places. However, I also don't believe that those legal and responsible gun owners should be told how they shouldn't be allowed to own firearms that they legally bought and are responsible with.

Both sides have their extreme components, which I see as the problems. I think productive discussions take place somewhere in the middle (in the gray areas) rather than in either the black or white extremes.

As far as this incident goes, I've stated already, this instructor was a dumb schmuck and the parents were irresponsible. And the law allowing for anyone outside of the military (I am not agreeing with Duned that law enforcement probably shouldn't be allowed automatic weapons either) to own/operate automatic weapons should be banned.

away my right to bear arms