for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

PFT: Eli watching the rush

phil fromphilly : 8/27/2014 3:57 pm
Quote from Sheldon Richardson of the Jets:

“Got some kinks to work out, you can notice that stuff, little stuff like that — it’s to the point where he don’t trust his offensive line that much, ’cause he’s watching the rush,” Richardson said, via the New York Post. “Little stuff like that.”


Eli doesn't trust his line - ( New Window )
Another reason  
phil fromphilly : 8/27/2014 3:58 pm : link
JR needs to reach out to the Niners and pry Boone away from them.
We already knew this  
GiveShockeyTheBall : 8/27/2014 3:58 pm : link
Eli is clearly shell shocked. He has no faith in his oline and hasn't for a year and a half.
I had a shitty OL  
bradshaw44 : 8/27/2014 4:03 pm : link
when I was in HS. It's the worst thing that can happen. I'd literally finish my snap count and I'd be falling backwards with two of my lineman on top of me. We pretty much abandoned the passing game all season. And I liked passing, as most QB's do.

This is why I'm not blaming Eli for 99% of his mistakes from last year and this preseason.
And just because Sheldon Richardson said it  
Gman11 : 8/27/2014 4:04 pm : link
it must be true.
And queue the first snarky comment...  
phil fromphilly : 8/27/2014 4:06 pm : link
Why would this not be true? Has Eli looked comfy back there?
RE: And just because Sheldon Richardson said it  
Mad Mike : 8/27/2014 4:10 pm : link
In comment 11828037 Gman11 said:
Quote:
it must be true.

Good point, his comment is clearly out of left field and inconsistent with the reality we've all observed for more than a year.
It's a standard machismo from a defensive lineman  
bceagle05 : 8/27/2014 4:11 pm : link
He's looking at the rush, he's rattled, we got in his head, blah blah blah. The Jets don't know what to make of a guy who wins regularly against the Patriots, that's all.
RE: RE: And just because Sheldon Richardson said it  
Gman11 : 8/27/2014 4:12 pm : link
In comment 11828058 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 11828037 Gman11 said:


Quote:


it must be true.


Good point, his comment is clearly out of left field and inconsistent with the reality we've all observed for more than a year.


Exactly, he's not looking down field any more trying to pick out a receiver. He's now focused on the rush......because Sheldon Richardson said so.
When the game is played on grass it is a lot easier to  
Marty in Albany : 8/27/2014 4:13 pm : link
tell which QB has a good offensive line: Spotless uniform

And a bad offensive line: Filthy uniform.
RE: RE: RE: And just because Sheldon Richardson said it  
kepler20 : 8/27/2014 4:14 pm : link
In comment 11828063 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 11828058 Mad Mike said:


Quote:


In comment 11828037 Gman11 said:


Quote:


it must be true.


Good point, his comment is clearly out of left field and inconsistent with the reality we've all observed for more than a year.



Exactly, he's not looking down field any more trying to pick out a receiver. He's now focused on the rush......because Sheldon Richardson said so.


good thing everything else we've seen in preseason suggests otherwise.

sheldon's lying though.
cmon.....  
Greg from LI : 8/27/2014 4:15 pm : link
Regardless of who said it, there's truth to the statement. Compare the Eli of 2011, who was under pressure quite a bit, to the Eli of today and you'll see a QB who is much more concerned about the pass rush.
RE: cmon.....  
Dunedin81 : 8/27/2014 4:17 pm : link
In comment 11828069 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Regardless of who said it, there's truth to the statement. Compare the Eli of 2011, who was under pressure quite a bit, to the Eli of today and you'll see a QB who is much more concerned about the pass rush.


Exactly. Eli used to move well in the pocket and had a good sense of the rush because he trusted his OL. It wasn't perfect, he still got hit, but now he seems a lot more concerned with where the rush is coming from than he did before.
Just like his coach  
Gman11 : 8/27/2014 4:17 pm : link
a big mouth that has yet to win anything.

WTF, just because he's butt hurt that the Giants' reserves whooped their asses he had to come up with something. Yeah, his 1st team really beat the shit out of the Giants. They were up by 3 at half time.

And, I suppose Eli didn't give a shit about the rush during the 2 minute drill where there were 7 passes and only 1 run, but he was scared shitless the other times.
RE: Another reason  
okiegiant : 8/27/2014 4:18 pm : link
In comment 11828014 phil fromphilly said:
Quote:
JR needs to reach out to the Niners and pry Boone away from them.


This is simply not going to happen...the 49er's need Boone and aren't giving him up.

Manning obviously isn't comfortable but he will settle down.
And when....  
Wonderphil11 : 8/27/2014 4:20 pm : link
the line gels and the offense starts to come together he'll stop watching the rush....some don't think this will happen and believe he's permanently damaged and on the decline, others think he's the same Eli who's had to deal with a crap oline among other things and will bounce back accordingly....unfortunately, no one will know the answer until the end of the season.
stop overreacting  
Greg from LI : 8/27/2014 4:20 pm : link
None of us are saying he's "scared shitless", but I think that observation of his play makes it hard to argue that the pass rush doesn't affect him more than it used to.
RE: cmon.....  
Gman11 : 8/27/2014 4:20 pm : link
In comment 11828069 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Regardless of who said it, there's truth to the statement. Compare the Eli of 2011, who was under pressure quite a bit, to the Eli of today and you'll see a QB who is much more concerned about the pass rush.


There's a difference between trying to escape the rush when your offensive lineman whiffs on a block and "having your eyes on the rush."

So, just because Eli couldn't escape when the lineman whiffs, it's all because Eli is the problem? Is that it? Bullshit.
RE: cmon.....  
kepler20 : 8/27/2014 4:24 pm : link
In comment 11828069 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Regardless of who said it, there's truth to the statement. Compare the Eli of 2011, who was under pressure quite a bit, to the Eli of today and you'll see a QB who is much more concerned about the pass rush.


of course there is. It's completely preposterous to suggest otherwise.

And Sheldon was actually fairly respectful as you'd expect a football opponent to be in that article. Without explicitly calling out Eli, he talked about the player always only being as good as his last game. Another thinly veiled shot at Eli but not overtly so.

RE: RE: cmon.....  
kepler20 : 8/27/2014 4:27 pm : link
In comment 11828088 Gman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 11828069 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Regardless of who said it, there's truth to the statement. Compare the Eli of 2011, who was under pressure quite a bit, to the Eli of today and you'll see a QB who is much more concerned about the pass rush.



There's a difference between trying to escape the rush when your offensive lineman whiffs on a block and "having your eyes on the rush."

So, just because Eli couldn't escape when the lineman whiffs, it's all because Eli is the problem? Is that it? Bullshit.


heres the problem: stop trying to completely absolve Eli from the problems he's helped cause this team the last 1.5 seasons. He holds the ball too long and has his shares of sack-fumbles with and without Gilbride's offense.
I normally don't care...  
okiegiant : 8/27/2014 4:30 pm : link
but who was kepler in the past?
RE: I normally don't care...  
kepler20 : 8/27/2014 4:35 pm : link
In comment 11828104 okiegiant said:
Quote:
but who was kepler in the past?


#1 ask eric
#2 tell eric to get a bitcoin wallet so that i can donate. Out of principle, i refuse to use paypal unless absolutely necessary
Eli's  
mrvax : 8/27/2014 4:41 pm : link
bad play tracks perfectly with the decline of his Oline. Like brtadshaw44 said, it's the worst thing that could happen to a QB. (Save for injury.)

I think the Giants really have to feature the running game and just pepper it with the passing game to keep the opponents from putting 8 in the box.

We just have to hope the starters stay healthy and they get better with pass blocking as time goes on. This was to be expected. It's hard to find and pay for good veteran Oline guys.
Has it occurred to anybody  
81_Great_Dane : 8/27/2014 4:45 pm : link
that the decline in Eli's game might be due to the punishment he's taken over the years? He's been an iron man, but that just means he's played through injuries, not that he's never injured. Games like the NFC championship at Candlestick take a toll over time.
RE:  
Klaatu : 8/27/2014 4:48 pm : link
In comment 11828111 kepler20 said:
Quote:

#2 tell eric to get a bitcoin wallet so that i can donate. Out of principle, i refuse to use paypal unless absolutely necessary


You can always send him a check, like I do.
Eric! Don't been me. Don't ban me!  
Canton : 8/27/2014 4:48 pm : link
I got called out so I'm going to make sure you know that I want to donate! BUT make it impossible for me to do so!


Don't been me!


Kepler20


RE: RE: I normally don't care...  
okiegiant : 8/27/2014 4:48 pm : link
In comment 11828111 kepler20 said:
Quote:
In comment 11828104 okiegiant said:


Quote:


but who was kepler in the past?



#1 ask eric
#2 tell eric to get a bitcoin wallet so that i can donate. Out of principle, i refuse to use paypal unless absolutely necessary


You seem to be laboring under the impression I care if you donate(by the way you can always send a check). I also, honestly, don't care who you used to post as in the past. I just find your aggressive negativity familiar and was curious.

You aren't willing to reveal this and I don't care enough to find out(plus it's your business and no real concern to me). I'll just add you to my list of posters to ignore.

Noting personal, I've just found this site to be more enjoyable lately if I avoid certain threads and posters!
RE: Has it occurred to anybody  
Rflairr : 8/27/2014 4:49 pm : link
In comment 11828128 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
that the decline in Eli's game might be due to the punishment he's taken over the years? He's been an iron man, but that just means he's played through injuries, not that he's never injured. Games like the NFC championship at Candlestick take a toll over time.


Punishment? Up until last yr. he's always been one of the least sacked QBs in the league
And in 1 year we  
AnishPatel : 8/27/2014 4:56 pm : link
nearly broke the guy. All the Rbs hurt, Useless WRs, NO TE, and shit show OL. All that on a guy and I wouldn't doubt if he has some cracks in his confidence everywhere.
RE: RE: Has it occurred to anybody  
81_Great_Dane : 8/27/2014 4:58 pm : link
In comment 11828135 Rflairr said:
Quote:
In comment 11828128 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


that the decline in Eli's game might be due to the punishment he's taken over the years? He's been an iron man, but that just means he's played through injuries, not that he's never injured. Games like the NFC championship at Candlestick take a toll over time.



Punishment? Up until last yr. he's always been one of the least sacked QBs in the league
Good at avoiding sacks. Got hit plenty. We know about a few injuries, betting there are a ton we don't know about.
Back in 2006...  
Klaatu : 8/27/2014 5:01 pm : link
I watched Eli get up off the canvas eight times before beating the Eagles in OT. I decided then and there to never question his toughness again.
RE: cmon.....  
Ron Dixon's Alarm Clock : 8/27/2014 5:01 pm : link
In comment 11828069 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Regardless of who said it, there's truth to the statement. Compare the Eli of 2011, who was under pressure quite a bit, to the Eli of today and you'll see a QB who is much more concerned about the pass rush.


This. Eli has shown the ability to perform behind leaky lines and taking hits. Now it seems less so. Why?
I am trying to think of 1 QB that played in the  
Headhunter : 8/27/2014 5:02 pm : link
League that played 10 years and then became gun shy? I remember Jaws shit in his pants watching LT, maybe Neil Lomax or Jake Plummer? I think this like an urban legend in the making about Eli developing happy feet after 9 years
RE: RE: cmon.....  
Klaatu : 8/27/2014 5:05 pm : link
In comment 11828155 Ron Dixon's Alarm Clock said:
Quote:
In comment 11828069 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Regardless of who said it, there's truth to the statement. Compare the Eli of 2011, who was under pressure quite a bit, to the Eli of today and you'll see a QB who is much more concerned about the pass rush.



This. Eli has shown the ability to perform behind leaky lines and taking hits. Now it seems less so. Why?


Because in 2011 he had a corps of receivers who could get open quickly and make big plays, something he didn't have in 2012 and 2013. OBJ was supposed to change that, but he hasn't been able to get on the field.
RE: I am trying to think of 1 QB that played in the  
okiegiant : 8/27/2014 5:09 pm : link
In comment 11828157 Headhunter said:
Quote:
League that played 10 years and then became gun shy? I remember Jaws shit in his pants watching LT, maybe Neil Lomax or Jake Plummer? I think this like an urban legend in the making about Eli developing happy feet after 9 years


I am as big a Manning fan as there is, but something isn't right. He looks, at times, like he'd rather not step in to the throw and like he wants bail a little early.

Eli is tough as nails and I would never doubt him, but I could certainly see a QB getting a bit tired of getting hit.

Manning is going to have a great year, and I certainly don't think he's watching the rush, but you have to admit he's not as comfortable as he should be under center.

I think with a new offense, new line, new backs, new coach he's just in an adjustment period(we all hope).
Looks the same to me  
Headhunter : 8/27/2014 5:14 pm : link
fucking up simple throws followed up by making spectacular throws. From day 1 he has thrown high over the middle and at receiver's feet in the flat followed by thrown perfect back should and deep balls. He is the same as 1994
back shoulder  
Headhunter : 8/27/2014 5:15 pm : link
.
RE: cmon.....  
shabu : 8/27/2014 5:35 pm : link
In comment 11828069 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Regardless of who said it, there's truth to the statement. Compare the Eli of 2011, who was under pressure quite a bit, to the Eli of today and you'll see a QB who is much more concerned about the pass rush.


T h i s.
RE: Looks the same to me  
shabu : 8/27/2014 5:36 pm : link
In comment 11828177 Headhunter said:
Quote:
fucking up simple throws followed up by making spectacular throws. From day 1 he has thrown high over the middle and at receiver's feet in the flat followed by thrown perfect back should and deep balls. He is the same as 1994


This is true as well.
RE: Eli's  
BigBlueinChicago : 8/27/2014 5:51 pm : link
In comment 11828122 mrvax said:
Quote:
I think the Giants really have to feature the running game and just pepper it with the passing game to keep the opponents from putting 8 in the box.


Mrvax, I've been suggesting this all summer. Others have as well, but it has been met with a level of backlash.

There is nothing wrong with Eli playing the role of "passenger" instead of driver as the team tries to find it way.

Why can't the Giants be a team that runs the ball effectively (as they have done so far) and control the clock, play very good defense, and get a play or two out of special teams and win that way?

If they got the 2008 Eli Manning (the season the Giants went 12-4), who that year threw the fewest passes in a season in his career (479) since he became a full-time starter, would that be so bad if it turns out to be successful?
RE: Back in 2006...  
Mason : 8/27/2014 6:10 pm : link
In comment 11828154 Klaatu said:
Quote:
I watched Eli get up off the canvas eight times before beating the Eagles in OT. I decided then and there to never question his toughness again.


I was going to bring up that game... but but... he had great OL play how did that happen again? When receivers were yelling at the OL on the sideline.
RE: RE: Eli's  
arcarsenal : 8/27/2014 6:19 pm : link
In comment 11828214 BigBlueinChicago said:
Quote:
In comment 11828122 mrvax said:


Quote:


I think the Giants really have to feature the running game and just pepper it with the passing game to keep the opponents from putting 8 in the box.



Mrvax, I've been suggesting this all summer. Others have as well, but it has been met with a level of backlash.

There is nothing wrong with Eli playing the role of "passenger" instead of driver as the team tries to find it way.

Why can't the Giants be a team that runs the ball effectively (as they have done so far) and control the clock, play very good defense, and get a play or two out of special teams and win that way?

If they got the 2008 Eli Manning (the season the Giants went 12-4), who that year threw the fewest passes in a season in his career (479) since he became a full-time starter, would that be so bad if it turns out to be successful?


The 2008 OL was just fucking steamrolling everyone. We have nothing close to that right now. It's hard to compare and try the same approach and expect a similar level of success.

The run blocking hasn't been awful this preseason but this line certainly isn't the one from 6 years ago. I don't know how successful we'd be as a run heavy team. I think we'd see a lot of 3 and outs.
And why the F should we take this to heart?  
Matt M. : 8/27/2014 6:34 pm : link
I'm not saying it isn't true. But, I certainly put zero weight in the comment coming from him.
been saying this for years  
area junc : 8/27/2014 6:40 pm : link
this started happening when his pass pro fell apart with his RBs and he never recovered
He's one of the toughest QBs in the league  
Matt M. : 8/27/2014 6:47 pm : link
and he never recovered? I'm not buying all this doom and gloom shit that people are having a field day making up about Eli all of a sudden.
I just think the QB clock in his head  
Headhunter : 8/27/2014 7:01 pm : link
has sped up 1 beat when he is going deep. On his 3 step drops, he is inconsistent, less so on his 5 step drops. When he runs a designed rollout, he looks like he has a piano on his back, but he hits more than he misses. In other words, IMO, Eli is Eli. If you want to create a myth, there are more than enough people here to go along with anything anyone writes. You can start a thread that Eli doesn't care and 3 days later it'll become fact in some quarters here
i remember  
djm : 8/27/2014 7:20 pm : link
when everyone was saying Eli wasn't a leader. Couldn't win on the road. Shit, he couldn't win period.

Those comments were echoed by experts too. Just like the OL is terrible and Eli is shell shocked.

I guess we will see. But just because everyone is saying it, doesn't mean everyone is truly seeing it. It's easy to pile on and follow the herd. Human nature.

I still say the biggest problem last September was the loss of Andre BRown. Mix a little OL struggle and add a Wilson fumble and you have the perfect storm of offensive breakdown.
.  
crick78 : 8/27/2014 7:28 pm : link
quit comparing 2011 to now, it's not nearly the same.
People have short memories  
PEEJ : 8/27/2014 7:33 pm : link
.
I think headhunter said it best. Eli Like Jaws is shitting his pants  
Rich Houston-NYG-WR-1971 : 8/27/2014 9:11 pm : link
now with the condition of OL. I don't blame Eli, He has his own family now and doesn't want his brains bashed in due to inferior line. Giants should offer a 2nd rd to 49ers for boone with conditional one if we make playoffs
Didn't we already have a thread on this  
Peter in Atlanta : 8/27/2014 9:15 pm : link
comment?
Eli watching the rush  
pganut : 8/27/2014 9:51 pm : link
...and slappin' the bass (man, this thread wasn't what I thought it would be)

Yes  
mattlawson : 8/27/2014 9:52 pm : link
There was. The OP main comment was discussed. Therefore this is German - if that's still a thing.
Sad that I  
SethFromAstoria : 8/28/2014 12:18 am : link
am falling into this trap but....

isn't it possible that watching the rush isn't the problem, but rather that the rush itself is the problem? Why does it always f-ing have to go back to something Eli Manning is doing wrong instead of how he can't do what we know he can do because his protection isn't there? No QB operates well with linemen in his face. Yeah he's watching the rush....he's watching it collapse into his face as he tries to make plays.

Thus continues the persistent analysis of this great player in a way that differs from everyone else. Suddenly it's not that he has no protection, but instead it's he is watching the lack of protection.
RE: Sad that I  
kepler20 : 8/28/2014 3:19 am : link
In comment 11828578 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:
am falling into this trap but....

isn't it possible that watching the rush isn't the problem, but rather that the rush itself is the problem? Why does it always f-ing have to go back to something Eli Manning is doing wrong instead of how he can't do what we know he can do because his protection isn't there? No QB operates well with linemen in his face. Yeah he's watching the rush....he's watching it collapse into his face as he tries to make plays.

Thus continues the persistent analysis of this great player in a way that differs from everyone else. Suddenly it's not that he has no protection, but instead it's he is watching the lack of protection.


Stay out of third and 10 and Eli will be fine.

That's why he needs to be throwing 70%.

That's why he should stop gambling, bombing the ball down field on 2nd aand 10.


There are ways to mitigate being rushed into hell, its called executing well on first and 2nd down.
add to that  
SBlue46 : 8/28/2014 7:55 am : link
He is still thinking about new plays and coverage
Also nobody ever says his injury may still be
nagging and he cant move that fast.
Macadoo has some new foowork techniques for
eli also...I think that screws up his passes..
Rich  
Headhunter : 8/28/2014 7:58 am : link
I did not say that, but then again my dad didn't beat me with a 2x4 constantly so I guess I understand how you read it that way
RE: And in 1 year we  
Optimus-NY : 8/28/2014 12:53 pm : link
In comment 11828145 AnishPatel said:
Quote:
nearly broke the guy. All the Rbs hurt, Useless WRs, NO TE, and shit show OL. All that on a guy and I wouldn't doubt if he has some cracks in his confidence everywhere.


Right on. The Giants MUST make the OL Priority #1 in their offseason and eve their in-season transaction attempts.
RE: RE: Sad that I  
SethFromAstoria : 8/28/2014 6:50 pm : link
In comment 11828598 kepler20 said:
Quote:
In comment 11828578 SethFromAstoria said:


Quote:


am falling into this trap but....

isn't it possible that watching the rush isn't the problem, but rather that the rush itself is the problem? Why does it always f-ing have to go back to something Eli Manning is doing wrong instead of how he can't do what we know he can do because his protection isn't there? No QB operates well with linemen in his face. Yeah he's watching the rush....he's watching it collapse into his face as he tries to make plays.

Thus continues the persistent analysis of this great player in a way that differs from everyone else. Suddenly it's not that he has no protection, but instead it's he is watching the lack of protection.



Stay out of third and 10 and Eli will be fine.

That's why he needs to be throwing 70%.

That's why he should stop gambling, bombing the ball down field on 2nd aand 10.


There are ways to mitigate being rushed into hell, its called executing well on first and 2nd down.


this is what happens when your line sucks and you are rushing for 2-3 yards on first down, you have no tight end bailout, you have no RB bail out in the flat, and your receivers are all running routes beyond 10 yards. Plus those same receivers are Cruz, a former great receiver who turned pussy, and a rookie who was never confident or comfortable in the offense or running his routes.

Obviously the guy isn't making perfect plays every time but there are all of these factors surrounding him and the majority, if not all of it can go back to the O Line. Its never as simple as pure black and white but in the NFL if your line is weak then you can't even run plays. Then when you refuse to adjust because you have "confidence" that you can run your plays, its the same thing over and over again. Not to mention repetitive play calling etc...

My point is that when the guy had a team that was running with him, he was a great QB and had his best years. When his team had holes or issues, he had issues. He's not Romo or Rodgers who can make plays plays with their feet. He's a pocket passer who needs a good pocket. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that if the team is running optimally.
Back to the Corner