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NFT: Parents suing Youth Soccer for Concussions

natefit : 8/27/2014 5:54 pm
The suit, filed against FIFA in U.S. District Court in California, names U.S. Soccer, American Youth Soccer Organization and other U.S. youth organisations, charging negligence regarding head injuries, according to a New York Times report.

Legit or litigious?
legit.  
kepler20 : 8/27/2014 7:06 pm : link
have you ever headed a ball?
What makes soccer different than any other youth sport  
Bill L : 8/27/2014 7:08 pm : link
There are risks and you sign a waiver.
it's fucking ridiculous  
B in ALB : 8/27/2014 7:10 pm : link
Surprised they're not suing the ball manufacturers too.
Only one solution  
PEEJ : 8/27/2014 7:15 pm : link
bubble wrap !
Ridiculous  
UConn4523 : 8/27/2014 7:17 pm : link
don't want your kids to get even slightly hurt, don't sign them up for sports. Really wish their were repercussions for these kids of lawsuits.
RE: Ridiculous  
kepler20 : 8/27/2014 7:26 pm : link
In comment 11828308 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
don't want your kids to get even slightly hurt, don't sign them up for sports. Really wish their were repercussions for these kids of lawsuits.


your son breaking his leg is far different than him laying the foundation for CTE.
RE: RE: Ridiculous  
UConn4523 : 8/27/2014 7:30 pm : link
In comment 11828312 kepler20 said:
Quote:
In comment 11828308 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


don't want your kids to get even slightly hurt, don't sign them up for sports. Really wish their were repercussions for these kids of lawsuits.



your son breaking his leg is far different than him laying the foundation for CTE.


You are right. But heading a ball isn't some made up part of the game that parents aren't aware of. I don't want any kids to have a major injury, but there's risks in every sport. If you don't want your kids to get hurt, don't let them play sports.

Parents need to start acting like parents and taking responsibility for their own misjudgment before pointing fingers.
RE: legit.  
That Said : 8/27/2014 7:31 pm : link
In comment 11828295 kepler20 said:
Quote:
have you ever headed a ball?


Yeah. For 14 years. There's a right way and a wrong way. Do it right, and you're good to go.

Legit? My ass.
I am thinking about writing a book on this topic...  
manh george : 8/27/2014 7:35 pm : link
entitled "Concussions and Repercussions."

Matthew Mcconaughey will play me in the movie version as the intrepid, crusading lawyer who gets millions of dollars for kids with flat heads from soccer ball manufacturers.
I read a couple studies  
Bill L : 8/27/2014 7:40 pm : link
And there's no real clear data as to whether there are long-term mental issues from heading the ball. Most studies suggest little if any negative effects. I think most head injuries in soccer are not from heading but, rather, clunking heads.
RE: legit.  
Peter in Atlanta : 8/27/2014 9:12 pm : link
In comment 11828295 kepler20 said:
Quote:
have you ever headed a ball?


I'm guessing you've headed two.
Count me in the ridiculous crowd  
islander1 : 8/27/2014 9:17 pm : link
If you don't want your kid to get injured, don't ever let him out of the bubble. If you, as a parent, are too stupid to know when your own kid has a concussion (or other injury) then its your fault for failing.

Just another example of people in America blaming someone else for their own failures.
Should have signed them up  
Pitt G-man Dan : 8/27/2014 9:17 pm : link
for knockerball instead.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Count me in the ridiculous crowd  
kepler20 : 8/27/2014 9:38 pm : link
In comment 11828436 islander1 said:
Quote:
If you don't want your kid to get injured, don't ever let him out of the bubble. If you, as a parent, are too stupid to know when your own kid has a concussion (or other injury) then its your fault for failing.

Just another example of people in America blaming someone else for their own failures.


patently false.

https://engineering.purdue.edu/Engr/AboutUs/News/Publications/EngineeringImpact/2013_1/COEIssue/when-is-one-hit-too-many
RE: RE: Count me in the ridiculous crowd  
kepler20 : 8/27/2014 9:39 pm : link
In comment 11828456 kepler20 said:
Quote:
In comment 11828436 islander1 said:


Quote:


If you don't want your kid to get injured, don't ever let him out of the bubble. If you, as a parent, are too stupid to know when your own kid has a concussion (or other injury) then its your fault for failing.

Just another example of people in America blaming someone else for their own failures.



patently false.

https://engineering.purdue.edu/Engr/AboutUs/News/Publications/EngineeringImpact/2013_1/COEIssue/when-is-one-hit-too-many


excuse me islander, i meant to quote this in response

In comment 11828336 Bill L said:
Quote:
And there's no real clear data as to whether there are long-term mental issues from heading the ball. Most studies suggest little if any negative effects. I think most head injuries in soccer are not from heading but, rather, clunking heads.
I have another scenario that is similar to a degree  
montanagiant : 8/27/2014 9:43 pm : link
A friend had his daughter on a traveling Vollyball team, a pretty serious one that cost a ton to join and the kid has to be invited on..During practice one day while they were scrimmaging, it got turned over to a volunteer asst of the team while the real coaches had a meeting with the area league.

This volunteer decided to conduct drills (which actually he is not certified to do and has been told not to do so in the past), which consisted of setting up spikes. Friends daughter and a few others were on the defensive side of the drill and was sloughing off during the drills. This coach got pissed off, and while demonstrating the proper technique for the spike he decided to put a little muscle behind it. Long story short he spiked the hell out of the ball hit the daughter of my friend who fell back hitting her head on the wood floor.

She ended up with a broken nose and a pretty bad concussion...They are also thinking of suing over this
That story is a little different than suing over  
Peter in Atlanta : 8/27/2014 9:46 pm : link
normal play.
Let them play dodge ball!  
Mike in Philly : 8/27/2014 9:55 pm : link
If you can dodge a car, you can dodge a ball!!

Oh, and add me to the ridiculous count.
RE: RE: legit.  
Del Shofner : 8/27/2014 10:07 pm : link
In comment 11828431 Peter in Atlanta said:
Quote:
In comment 11828295 kepler20 said:


Quote:


have you ever headed a ball?



I'm guessing you've headed two.


I see what you did there.
RE: RE: RE: Count me in the ridiculous crowd  
Bill L : 8/27/2014 10:27 pm : link
In comment 11828458 kepler20 said:
Quote:
In comment 11828456 kepler20 said:


Quote:


In comment 11828436 islander1 said:


Quote:


If you don't want your kid to get injured, don't ever let him out of the bubble. If you, as a parent, are too stupid to know when your own kid has a concussion (or other injury) then its your fault for failing.

Just another example of people in America blaming someone else for their own failures.



patently false.

https://engineering.purdue.edu/Engr/AboutUs/News/Publications/EngineeringImpact/2013_1/COEIssue/when-is-one-hit-too-many



excuse me islander, i meant to quote this in response

In comment 11828336 Bill L said:


Quote:


And there's no real clear data as to whether there are long-term mental issues from heading the ball. Most studies suggest little if any negative effects. I think most head injuries in soccer are not from heading but, rather, clunking heads.


I think that you must have confused the American versus European term for football. A natural mistake...unless you live here.

There's a series of studies from a number of places, trying to correlate heading with down the road cognitive impairment. As I said, the data go in different directions with nothing conclusive.
Bill L:  
That Said : 8/27/2014 10:32 pm : link
You're being too kind to this guy. The article clearly mentions Junior Seau in the beginning and there's a pic of a kid in a football helmet.

This kepler20 is a piece of work.
Ok so as the thread starter,  
natefit : 8/27/2014 10:36 pm : link
certified fitness trainer for 20 yrs and long time girls soccer coach let me walk a bit of a middle path here as I usually do. I have attended seminars on concussions in youth sports at HSS etc and there is SOME correlation between repeated impact caused ny heading a soccer ball and cognitive impairment down the road. More so in girls soccer actually, as it was explained by a # of physicians that young girls do not possess the neck strength to be able to absorb the impact as well as boys at the same age.
That being said, the idea that parents now somehow want to limit the # of headers and are willing to sue over what is certainly a very individualized prognosis/diagnosis, is patently absurd. Its up to every parent to keep an eye on their child and if they feel he/she is at risk, have him/her removed from a youth (elective) contest immediately. Lawyers should have nothing to do with it.
I should have added tho  
natefit : 8/27/2014 10:38 pm : link
that these studies are very limited in scope at this point and much more needs to be learned.
I would say  
mdthedream : 8/27/2014 10:43 pm : link
this in youth soccer they should wait till they hit a certain age before Heading a ball. Esp seeing most youth soccer coaching have no clue how to teach them how to do it.
one of my worst moments of involvement with soccer was when  
Del Shofner : 8/27/2014 10:43 pm : link
a player on one of my sons' teams got a concussion during a tournament, at age 10 or so. Had to go the hospital, etc. It was very scary.

He went on to be a very good student and an excellent soccer player, was all-conference all four years at Williams and now plays soccer professionally in Europe.

Bill L has actually seen him play - like 10 years ago. LOL. Bill and I never met but our kids played against each other.

Long term effects? Who knows. But he's 23 now and doing fine.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Count me in the ridiculous crowd  
kepler20 : 8/27/2014 11:36 pm : link
In comment 11828517 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 11828458 kepler20 said:


Quote:


In comment 11828456 kepler20 said:


Quote:


In comment 11828436 islander1 said:


Quote:


If you don't want your kid to get injured, don't ever let him out of the bubble. If you, as a parent, are too stupid to know when your own kid has a concussion (or other injury) then its your fault for failing.

Just another example of people in America blaming someone else for their own failures.



patently false.

https://engineering.purdue.edu/Engr/AboutUs/News/Publications/EngineeringImpact/2013_1/COEIssue/when-is-one-hit-too-many



excuse me islander, i meant to quote this in response

In comment 11828336 Bill L said:


Quote:


And there's no real clear data as to whether there are long-term mental issues from heading the ball. Most studies suggest little if any negative effects. I think most head injuries in soccer are not from heading but, rather, clunking heads.




I think that you must have confused the American versus European term for football. A natural mistake...unless you live here.

There's a series of studies from a number of places, trying to correlate heading with down the road cognitive impairment. As I said, the data go in different directions with nothing conclusive.


CTE is blind to both american and european football.

It only understands repeated head trauma, which both american and european football inflict onto it's players.
RE: Bill L:  
kepler20 : 8/27/2014 11:39 pm : link
In comment 11828522 That Said said:
Quote:
You're being too kind to this guy. The article clearly mentions Junior Seau in the beginning and there's a pic of a kid in a football helmet.

This kepler20 is a piece of work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy#Other_athletes_diagnosed_with_CTE
Again, lots of studies and you can certainly find ones  
Bill L : 8/27/2014 11:55 pm : link
That support one conclusion or the other.

Some recent imaging studies do show changes. However, there are mental security tests that don't show significant differences.

You also have to look at study groups....some look at euro players in their 30's who have over 25 years of accumulated playing time and some look at players with very short exposure.

Anecdotally, I've never seen someone go down from just heading a ball. I have seen people go down after they've taken a driven ball to the head. But most players I've seen get a concussion have either fallen and hit their head or, more often, banged their head to another head (or, I saw a foot once).
Del, same for my daughter  
Bill L : 8/27/2014 11:57 pm : link
I wish I could sue someone for some of the decisions she's made .

Btw, while she's still "figuring it out" she just took a (low-paying) gig as the asst coach at RPI
RE: Del, same for my daughter  
Del Shofner : 8/28/2014 12:19 am : link
In comment 11828572 Bill L said:
Quote:
I wish I could sue someone for some of the decisions she's made .

Btw, while she's still "figuring it out" she just took a (low-paying) gig as the asst coach at RPI


Good for her! Nice that she is in the area and still involved with the game. Shofner son #2, who she played against, was "figuring it out" the last couple of years as well, and now is getting his masters at the Maxwell School at Syracuse, in national security policy or something like that. He is still a weekend warrior on the soccer field, as is his big brother Charlie at Columbia, now almost 30 and a lawyer. They actually played left mid (son #1) and left back (son #2) together recently in a game at Chelsea Piers, both being left-footed.

BTW, anyone who doesn't know about Daughter of L, she's a great soccer player, mean and nasty on the field, and also very attractive at the same time, and very smart as well, I am sure, even if her dad questions that.
RE: Again, lots of studies and you can certainly find ones  
kepler20 : 8/28/2014 12:22 am : link
In comment 11828571 Bill L said:
Quote:
That support one conclusion or the other.

Some recent imaging studies do show changes. However, there are mental security tests that don't show significant differences.

You also have to look at study groups....some look at euro players in their 30's who have over 25 years of accumulated playing time and some look at players with very short exposure.

Anecdotally, I've never seen someone go down from just heading a ball. I have seen people go down after they've taken a driven ball to the head. But most players I've seen get a concussion have either fallen and hit their head or, more often, banged their head to another head (or, I saw a foot once).


Bill, you're out of your league on this one.

sub concussive hits have been proven to chemically alter the brain. the first link I've provided states that with a certainty; they happen to be an academic institution that holds their work up against the highest of standards. I don't quote work of shills; only scientists from academic institutions whove either been funded by the government or otherwise (re: non nfl). Any apparent conflicts of interest in academia would be stated upfront and immediately.

CTE is generally only confirmed post-mortem. This link will tell you that the cumulative effects of subconcussive hits should concern people as much as confirmed concussion events.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/sports/study-bolsters-link-between-routine-hits-to-head-and-long-term-brain-disease.html
I don't think concussions are the result of heading the ball  
Matt M. : 8/28/2014 12:44 am : link
Next to football, soccer has the 2nd highest rate of concussions in all other sports. It is the #1 concussion sport for women. That isn't just from headers.

That said, any litigation of this type is bogus. There is just much more contact in soccer than most parents probably realize (or realized). It isn't the result of anything FIFA, AYSO, any other youth organization, or any equipment manufacturer has done.
I'm not sure how academic research works so thanks for that lesson  
Bill L : 8/28/2014 1:22 am : link
And I take your point, even though that piece did not talk about soccer players.

Still you can find other studies from other academic institutions that counter it. Different methodology, different measurements, maybe different subjects...there is still controversy in the area.
And again, that's not looking at heading per se  
Bill L : 8/28/2014 1:24 am : link
No doubt there are blows to the head in soccer. It's a contact sport.
How in the world can you flat out claim it's bogus  
mcr2343 : 8/28/2014 2:32 am : link
If there are studies that say activities within the sport cause concussions and long term brain injuries, and the governing body of the sport either supports the actions that cause the injuries or sweep them under the rug, is that not actionable?

Maybe it will prove the claims are false but the whole point of the legal system in this regard is to evaluate the claims and determine the truth.

you like soccer and don't believe it. who fucking cares. that doesn't make the considerations of others bogus
Do you guys even understand how this stuff works  
mcr2343 : 8/28/2014 2:34 am : link
we shouldn't sue over cigarettes, we all know they are bad for you. Nothing to see here. If you choose to smoke them your a dope and should die for it.

Or maybe, just maybe, there are people hiding the truth for their own personal gain at the expense of others

who knows
Are you arguing for the elimnation of all sports  
Bill L : 8/28/2014 7:56 am : link
and gym class then?
Say every single study was conclusive  
UConn4523 : 8/28/2014 8:14 am : link
then what. You went from arguing that parents should be allowed to sue to only linking articles claiming it's possible for head trauma.

None if that matters if parents sign their children up anyway. My question to you, which I doubt you'll answer with anything other than a link of sorts, is how come parents aren't held responsible for the choices they make?
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