got to wonder if despite missing all of camp and the preseason, Holliday still has a shot at the 53. Also think the Giants could keep Idonije over Kuhn. Some of the players we cut will definitely be picked up by other teams IMO. A lot won't make it through waivers.
I didnt see it, but it seemed to me like Eli could have been 3 of 4 instead of 1 of 4 if Randle didnt have his head up his butt. Also seemed like Eli had better protection last night.
Could he be our secret weapon? Connor makes a good point about why we don't see him starting at least with the twos and as far as I'm concerned he's much better than Randle and is indeed our number two WR next to Cruz until Odel can finally get on the field.
It's a shame about Harris because both Randle and Jernigan are too inconsistent to be considered decent NFL talent.
I didnt see it, but it seemed to me like Eli could have been 3 of 4 instead of 1 of 4 if Randle didnt have his head up his butt. Also seemed like Eli had better protection last night.
AND, that John Jerry looked good.
Jerry looked fine to me as well, but who can really tell, being at the mercy of what the TV cameras decide to follow?
I didnt see it, but it seemed to me like Eli could have been 3 of 4 instead of 1 of 4 if Randle didnt have his head up his butt. Also seemed like Eli had better protection last night.
AND, that John Jerry looked good.
Eli did have better protection last night. The Oline held up against the 2nd teamers, but the pass catchers were bad. Every throw should not have to be into a small window, especially against non starters.
are as bad as the jokes he makes on his in-game tweets.
Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.
I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.
1) As Connor indicated in the game preview, last night's OL is very likely the best we've tried this summer. While pass protection was still an issue, Richburg and Jerry were better than anyone else we put at either OG spot. The running game, especially with the two of them, looks like it will actually be a strength. that may prove very important early in the season.
2) That said, Eli Manning may be running for his life again. Even with a 3 step drop, this offense often seems to not have quite enough time to set up even the short routes properly.
3) Williams is looking more and more like an excellent pick; a steal. I loved the idea of bringing in Jennings and wanted him as the starter as soon as they signed him. I have big expectations for him based on his strong showing last year once he started for the Raiders. He is not exceptional, but he does everything well. But, Williams is an excellent backup right out of the gate. I agree that if he can improve his hands and blocking, he is an every down back in a year.
4) I am so sick of Randle. Beckham can't get on the field soon enough. Not that Eli has looked good. but, one thing I trust with him is command of the offense and reading the D. Eli doesn't seem to have these issues with any other receivers besides Randle and Manningham (from his first stint here). Randle has the talent to make big plays. but, even in an offense with far fewer reads, he is still consistently running the wrong route and/or bad routes. I wish we were deep enough at WR to make an example of him and cut him. Since that isn't happening, I hope and pray that Beckham gets up to speed right away and very soon is taking the bulk of the snaps opposite Cruz in 2 WR sets.
5) Who will be the 2 starting OLBs? I hope they recognize Kennard's play and he is one of them.
6) As Eric mentioned the other day, the officiating this summer has been maddening. But, they do this every summer. The league picks one or two things to concentrate on and the flags go crazy for those. This summer it has been defensive holding and illegal contact. I only hope they go back to "normal" next week. I just don't get how you can call an incidental hand check with both players doing it, and then not call a defensive back running into a leaping WR with his back still to the ball and the ball still in the air (as happened with the Nassib throw to Parker in the end zone), among other more egregious violations from both teams. It just makes no sense. Even with the "normal" state of affairs, far too much incidental contact is called on defenses the last couple of years.
the Giants have to clean up the pass rush up the middle Â
they aren't forming a clean pocket in the middl. It keeps forcing Eli out and doesn't give him anywhere to step into the throw. He played better last night than he is given credit for. But the middle is a continual problem.
are as bad as the jokes he makes on his in-game tweets.
Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.
I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.
I think Connor's assessment of Eli was on the money when taken in the context it was written which was an evaluation of Eli based on his performance in ALL 5 pre-season games not just for last night.
That said, I blame Eli's poor performance totally on Jerry Reece who completely screwed up and neglected our o-Line and then again gambled this year after knowing how weak it was last year.
I don't think anyone should be able to confidently say he is better than anyone, as he has done everything against 3rd stringers. That said, I do agree that last night in particular, he should have been getting snaps with the 1st and 2nd team. I say this not because he deserves it. Rather, to see if he deserves it. With Beckham still out, they basically have a scrambled depth chart after Randle and Cruz. It would be nice to know what Washington and Parker could do against better talent. That said, last night probably wouldn't have been a big test given most of NEs starters didn't play.
And even if its for the entire preseason, why is it bad? Is it arm slot? Is it his feet? Is he missing guys, wrong reads? Are the WRs open? Is the OL giving him enough time? Is just talent at this point?
Right now to me, it sems Connor is writing what BBI wants to read so people can chime in and read his column. He's reminding more of a NY Post writer than a beat writer.
Even if you look at all 5 games, his overall numbers are not terrible. They amount to a so-so 3/4 of a game. He was about 50%, which is not great, with no INTs and about 190 yards. These are not spectacular. But, they also aren't terrible. They also could have been stronger last night if Randle wasn't a bonehead.
That brings me to my next point. You can make up all you want about Eli being skittish, watching the rush, etc. I don't buy it, but whatever. But, when it comes specifically to miscommunications with Randle, I will blame Randle 100% of the time. Eli has proven year after year and game after game to have full command of his offense. he may make some boneheaded decisions on the fly because he tries to do too much, but pre-snap reads, audibles, knowing where everyone is supposed to be, etc. have always been his strengths. I will always believe Eli made the right call or read and that Randle, who has a history of not knowing waht route to run and not running precise routes, was wrong. It is that simple.
Eli is one of the hardest working QBs in the league off the field. He is also one of the smartest and toughest. For these reasons, I am still not worried.
I hope Painter is not on the final roster. Whether you believe Nassib is a bust, the next QB in waiting, or somewhere in between, it shouldn't matter. Painter is and always has been a terrible QB at the pro level. With Nassib now having gone through 2 camps and elevating his play, there is absolutely no reason to keep Painter, especially in a year when we really need that extra roster spot for a number of positions (OL, CB, S, WR, possibly RB, possibly DL). He serves no purpose.
If Eli were to go down, I don't think I would be terribly confident with either guy at the helm. But, I would be more worried and have absolutely no optimistic outlook with Painter at the helm. I don't think I would say the same with Nassib.
are as bad as the jokes he makes on his in-game tweets.
Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.
I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.
I think Connor's assessment of Eli was on the money when taken in the context it was written which was an evaluation of Eli based on his performance in ALL 5 pre-season games not just for last night.
That said, I blame Eli's poor performance totally on Jerry Reece who completely screwed up and neglected our o-Line and then again gambled this year after knowing how weak it was last year.
You put a lot of blame on a man who's name you can't spell correctly.
No one person deserves the bulk of the blame, it's shared throughout the entire organization--top to bottom.
I've never seen so much made out of 8 offensive snaps. Â
Here is my take on all of Eli's throws, from memory. I was at the game, sitting in the end zone that Eli was moving toward.
Third and short: Eli rolls out to right, feeling pressure, fires a strike to Randle. Randle drops it.
Third and short: Eli puts a screen pass right on the TE, TE is immediately hit, gains no yardage.
Third and medium(?) Randle has 1-on-1 coverage on the outside, Eli throws the ball as if Randle is going to keep going up the sideline, Randle pulls up.
Third and medium (?) Eli misses Cruz on a crossing pattern. A tight window and not the worst throw in the world, but no chance for success the way that Eli throws it.
So, while I'd agree with the idea that the passing game is a mess, I would argue that only the last one could be pinned on Eli. The completion that gained no yardage was a good play by the Pats LB, but you've got to expect an NFL TE to get a yard there.
I was half hoping Coughlin would let the 1s out there for one more drive.
Is Randle an idiot? After a month of practice, how is he still so far off what Eli is thinking?
I don't think anyone should be able to confidently say he is better than anyone, as he has done everything against 3rd stringers. That said, I do agree that last night in particular, he should have been getting snaps with the 1st and 2nd team. I say this not because he deserves it. Rather, to see if he deserves it. With Beckham still out, they basically have a scrambled depth chart after Randle and Cruz. It would be nice to know what Washington and Parker could do against better talent. That said, last night probably wouldn't have been a big test given most of NEs starters didn't play.
I think that was the point Connor was making (let's see Washington play with the 2s so, as you said, we can see how good he really may be). I confidently say he's better than Randle, right or wrong, because I'm sick of Randle's inconsistency. I'd prefer to not see him on the field anymore while Washington catches everything thrown his way.
I agree. Even the 5 games as a whole, the offense wasn't on the field for the equivalent of one full game. Throw in a first time play caller and a different OL each week, and I think this offense is probably not what we will see for most of the season. I hope the optimist in me is correct.
I also look at what snaps the starting offense did take and see how they tried to force specific types of plays (i.e. certain formations and routes). I expect much more variety, creativity, and fluidity in the regular season. It may not be all roses to start, but there is enough talent there to be a good offense. To that end, I think the effectiveness of the running game is being too easily glossed over. We may actually, for the first time in a few years, have a running game that can set the tone and set up the pass.
The two to Randle I agree about. The one to Cruz, I'm not sure if was a poor choice or just thrown too early. The timing seemed off, but it also seemed like the DB was closing underneath, so a slightly later throw as Banks was calling for, may have still resulted in an INC or INT. I didn't notice the other options available. I think this was just an example of them purposely trying to force a specific play, given it is still the preseason.
The throw to Davis, I think is fair to pin most of the blame on Davis for not getting a deeper push before cutting outside. However, I think a seasoned QB should also see that the route was too shallow. That said, it is also reasonable to expect a big TE like Davis to be able to pick up 2 yards with a small DB as the only defender near him.
the route may've been a yard or two shallow, but he's got to turn the corner and win a one on one contest. I didn't see any fight in the play, didn't seem to be any attempt to outmuscle the guy or make anything happen, and Davis had the head of steam.
This article, and many others by Connor, are horribly written. Can we stop with this stupid jokes, the douchebag comments and all the rest?
Can we just concentrate of breakdowns and review? I don't care if you're negative about a player, but I don't know why we need to write like a high school student. Do YOU think you need to capitalize for emphasis? Do you NEED to write like this? Can you BE any worse?
Lets stick to breaking down the game and stop trying to be Adam Schein.
I know this is against the group thought process Â
but I really believe we haven't seen the offense at all yet. Now whether that is because of injuries or installation or because they don't want anything on tape, I think what we'll see on Monday is very different than what we've seen to date. Now does that mean that Randle will miraculously learn where to be? NO. Does that mean the line will give Eli time? NO. Does that mean that Beckham will come in and light it up off of no training camp? Of course not. But I believe the play calling and the plays will be very different than what we have seen, at least in the passing game.
Did Chip Kelly (and I am not suggesting that the Giants offense will be where the Eagles was last year) show his offense in the pre-season games? NO. But in the opener against Washington he put up 35 points in a half, with his two tackles wide and run/pass options.
That is why I believe that we haven't even seen the offense yet so it is hard to draw conclusions from these pre-season games.
RE: I'm not really sure why Eli gets Connor's venom Â
Randle is responsible for two of the 3 passes he threw being incomplete.
The one completion would've been a first down if Kellen Davis wasn't garbage.
And a missed connection to Cruz.
Peer pressure? He wants to be accepted as an actual beat writer and fit in so instead of providing good analysis he joins the crowd and throws out snarky tweets.
Don't know if any of what I typed is true but I do wonder why the writers seem to think it's par for the course to pile on Manning.
No, it's pretty common to just play vanilla offense in preseason Â
I don't think anyone should be able to confidently say he is better than anyone, as he has done everything against 3rd stringers. That said, I do agree that last night in particular, he should have been getting snaps with the 1st and 2nd team. I say this not because he deserves it. Rather, to see if he deserves it. With Beckham still out, they basically have a scrambled depth chart after Randle and Cruz. It would be nice to know what Washington and Parker could do against better talent. That said, last night probably wouldn't have been a big test given most of NEs starters didn't play.
Nonsense. he hasn't payed just against 3rd stringers and he has made plays in camp and practices against Prince and DRC among others. the guy is for real and we hit big with him. I see him starting in 3 or 4 WR sets depending on who is available..
was singled out several times by Banks in the broadcast for excellent blocks in the running game. I focused on him a lot more than Jerry as well.
They should move him to C now. He is the present AND future.
And if he moves to center who plays guard? And do you really want to shuffle the line again? Leave the line alone for now and lets see if they can get better with the additional time together.
was singled out several times by Banks in the broadcast for excellent blocks in the running game. I focused on him a lot more than Jerry as well.
They should move him to C now. He is the present AND future.
And who plays guard? Walton can't. Just leave it alone. Richburg has played Center for years. When it's time for him to take over, he will.
You said it in your other post: John Jerry looks good at RG. Leave him there, move Moseley back to LG, then Schwartz when he comes back. C is more important than G, and Walton has not been impressive.
Connor's write-ups (and the Giants play) are virtually unchanged through the preseason. The only Giant to make significant improvement through the preseason is Nassib, and he won't play when it counts
Connor's write-ups (and the Giants play) are virtually unchanged through the preseason. The only Giant to make significant improvement through the preseason is Nassib, and he won't play when it counts
There are plenty of things to point out where you've seen significant improvement: Moore, Jennings, Pugh, Kennard, McClain, J.Williams.
Basically the whole defense has been playing really well. The Oline is improving I think. We should go with the Beatty-Richburg-Walton-Jerry-Pugh combo. Was our best one yet.
I haven't seen any preseason games but are the WR's getting open?? Â
Our offense is a mess except for the RB's from the reports I read on BBI. OL,TE's,WR's and our franchise QB not looking they are ready for the regular season.We are in a big rebuilding period if all the reports I have been reading are correct.I'm normally an optimist but really worried about this year.
Quick Hits and Tidbits, is it not? This suggests the article would contain quick, initial impressions, not in-depth analysis.
One may crave more professional, deeper analysis of the Giants, but this article wasn't the proper place to expect it and Connor shouldn't be chastised for not providing it in this particular piece.
Our offense is a mess except for the RB's from the reports I read on BBI. OL,TE's,WR's and our franchise QB not looking they are ready for the regular season.We are in a big rebuilding period if all the reports I have been reading are correct.I'm normally an optimist but really worried about this year.
Little separation. No easy throws for Eli and some catchable balls they aren't coming up with.
I realize that Walton has not played in 2 years and that Â
possibly is why he doesn't look so good- has trouble with strong DTs just throwing him around and he doesn't get much push on running plays. So, either we stay with him at C and hope that some of the rust wears off or we come up with a different OL combo.
Jerry looks good at RG and Richburg whenever he plays at C.
I wonder, therefore, how an OL of Beatty-Reynolds-Richburg-Jerry-Pugh would look.
If this offense still has issues at halftime next Monday Â
I will begin to worry. As TC said in his post game presser last night....... We have had really ugly preseasons on offense in the past and have been fine once the real bullets start flying. My only concern is lack of a true #1 receiver.
You have to know it looks like we will be able to run the ball. That is something we could not do at all last year. That should open things up for the pass game.
are as bad as the jokes he makes on his in-game tweets.
Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.
I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.
I appreciate your criticism. Unfortunately, when at the physical games, I cannot re-watch plays or use instant replay. Much of the analysis and opinion I am forced to put together are based off viewing a play once. Thus, these reports (quick hits and tidbits) are mean to be the initial/immediate reaction.
Please, view our game reviews which run 2-4 days after the game is played. This is the insight I am able to gather following an intensive film session. I dedicated two-to-three hours each game to watch the film and give you, the fans, as much insight as possible.
When I was brought on by BBI, it was not as fan. If you want things sugar coated, you aren't going to like my reading. I'm not a fan of the team, I'm an analysis. I want to put it like it is. I'm sorry if that has rubbed you the wrong way, but that is my intention.
The way I view it, you will gain much more from my writing if I write as an analysis and put things as they are. Would you rather me shine something that's a dud?
I have been very up front with everyone that if you wish to contact me with any question/comment/concern, please shoot me an email. I do my best to answer at a timely fashion: connor_hughes@bigblueinteractive.com
This article, and many others by Connor, are horribly written. Can we stop with this stupid jokes, the douchebag comments and all the rest?
Can we just concentrate of breakdowns and review? I don't care if you're negative about a player, but I don't know why we need to write like a high school student. Do YOU think you need to capitalize for emphasis? Do you NEED to write like this? Can you BE any worse?
Lets stick to breaking down the game and stop trying to be Adam Schein.
Dear Dodge,
I apologize if you do not like the way quick hits and tidbits is written, it is not meant to be an "article" per say, but rather a blog. If you'd like to judge my writing level or talent, please read some of the featured articles that I've written.
Quick hits and tidbits is designed to be an open note book. You open it up, here are the notes. It's a different style I've tried:
Randle is responsible for two of the 3 passes he threw being incomplete.
The one completion would've been a first down if Kellen Davis wasn't garbage.
And a missed connection to Cruz.
Peer pressure? He wants to be accepted as an actual beat writer and fit in so instead of providing good analysis he joins the crowd and throws out snarky tweets.
Don't know if any of what I typed is true but I do wonder why the writers seem to think it's par for the course to pile on Manning.
There is no need to feel pressured or want to fit in. The reason that most --if not all-- beat writers send their criticism towards Manning is that throughout every training camp practice, he's needed and deserved it.
From being at every camp practice but one, Manning has struggled mightily. There has been overthrows and underthrows. It hasn't been pretty and it hasn't changed when he's stepped on the field.
These judgements haven't been made just based on Manning's preseason performance, but that on the practice field more than anything else.
Any comments or concerns, please email me:
connor_hughes@bigblueinteractive.com
definitely appreciate your time and effort on this stuff....and I'll certainly continue to read your reports and analysis, etc.
The thing about BBI that is important for you to know..there are lot of morons on here that don't really know alot about the Giants, even though they think that they do, and then you have a group of extremely knowledgeable and intelligent fans that know alot more than the average football fan. So when you make a reactive comment that may seem off base, and it doesn't have alot of thought put into it, you're going to lose credibility with some people on this site. And that may not matter to you, which is fine, but this site is different than other fan sites in that you're not going to get much by certain people here. If something comes across as irresponsible reporting; more than likely you're going to get called out for it; more so than you would on other sites. And its not really about people being pissed that its a negative comment about the Giants...its more likely to be about it not being accurate...based on the reading/research that the fans have done.
definitely appreciate your time and effort on this stuff....and I'll certainly continue to read your reports and analysis, etc.
The thing about BBI that is important for you to know..there are lot of morons on here that don't really know alot about the Giants, even though they think that they do, and then you have a group of extremely knowledgeable and intelligent fans that know alot more than the average football fan. So when you make a reactive comment that may seem off base, and it doesn't have alot of thought put into it, you're going to lose credibility with some people on this site. And that may not matter to you, which is fine, but this site is different than other fan sites in that you're not going to get much by certain people here. If something comes across as irresponsible reporting; more than likely you're going to get called out for it; more so than you would on other sites. And its not really about people being pissed that its a negative comment about the Giants...its more likely to be about it not being accurate...based on the reading/research that the fans have done.
Andy,
Thank you for the insight and I agree. Hopefully, there is much more of an emphasis put into the physical game review. This is where I am able to go back and watch a play three or four times. I can see what happens with the line, receivers and others. because I can make out different points.
Reviewing past game reviews, I have retracted several assumptions I had made in "Quick hits and tidbits" because I got a chance to see the play again. One that comes instantly to my mind is the play of Walter Thurmond against, I believe, the Steelers?
Watching the game, I thought Thurmond had been beat multiple times and played poorly. When watching the film, that was shown it was not the case. Thurmond had good coverage and a perfect pass/non OPI hurt his cause.
Sadly, when at a game I do not have the ability to see a play more than once.
From now on, I will make sure to emphasize this in the the beginning portion of the article.
would use the access for sharper observations, not a platform for his opinions. This sky-is-falling shit is old and it's not even game one.
Dear Burlyman,
I believe that I have done this with my access with the featured articles and camp reports provided to BBI. Also, I have worked to use that to add insight into all game reviews and previews.
It's tough to gain instant analysis into this particular piece (quick hits and tidbits) because I only get to see a place once before it's over and done with. When watching at home, you see the play live, then replays instantly. At a game, you don't get that.
Quick Hits and Tidbits is meant to be an opinion. It's my instant thoughts after the game watching it life. Like all opinions, you either agree, or disagree with them.
Some people will agree with me, some won't. I understand that and know some will feel very strongly against my points of view.
A perfect example of what I try to bring you as BBIs beat writer is the example of Ryan Nassib. Few people were as hard on him as I was in the beginning of camp. Then, quite literally out of no where, a switch was hit with him in that Indy game. He's looked night-and-day better than he did at the beginning of camp. Thus, I've written about that.
If Manning comes out and looks unbelievable versus Detroit and in practice this week. I'll write that. When he looks bad, I write that, too.
I've given Manning praise, too. Here's what I wrote on him in a practice report this week:
----
While it was far from perfect, Monday’s practice may have been the best for Giants quarterback Eli Manning.
Again…it wasn’t perfect, but it was better.
Manning handled himself well in the pocket and connected on several deep throws. He marched the Giants up and down the field a few times and, if it wasn’t for drops, may have added two-to-three touchdowns to his practice. He didn’t work much against the starting defense, but he did a solid job against the second team.
(later in same report)
Eli Manning made the play of practice on an absolutely gorgeous throw to Rueben Randle on a flag route down the left sideline. Manning dropped the ball over the head of Antrel Rolle and in front of Walter Thurmond. It fell, literally, right into the hands of Randle.
but a paid commenter? That doesn't sound like fun for anyone. I was under the impression this is a fan site.
Dear Burlyman,
I am not on salary or paid hourly by BBI. I'm a credentialed beat writer dedicated to giving you some of the more extensive coverage of the Giants on the web.
While so many have changed over to quick 300 word blogs, I've tried to keep my practice reports as detailed as possible and game reviews the same. The featured articles I've written have be in an attempt to let you, the fans, know the person behind the face mask.
If you have any additional criticism or things you'd like me to add to my work for BBI, please email me:
Eli overthrowing and underthrowing in OTAs, Spring Practice, Training Camp and Preseason Games- why is it ALWAYS Eli's fault?
Are the WRs and TEs running the right routes? the right depth to the routes, the right timing?
It's the seemingly exclusive focus on Eli that makes me wonder about the conscious or subconscious bias of the beat writers.
Any beat writer ever use adjectives like "ineffective", "uncomfortable", "confused" etc. when it comes to the WRs and TEs?
As to the regular season, IMO the OL is in flux and, therefore, below average; so far Cruz is the only reliable WR with Randle looking confused and JJ not a good wide WR; the TEs as a group are the worst in the entire NFL; and while the RBs have good speed not one has game-breaking speed. So, how would you like to be Eli with those players around him? Yet ALL we hear is how terrible Eli is.
Not that it matters either way, and it's not meant as a shot or anything, just curious to try and get a better understanding of your perspective and where you're coming from when forming opinions. Did you follow the team this closely prior to joining BBI?
Again, not a knock on your analysis, and I understand you're reporting what you see - but it's human nature to let our personal experiences and viewpoints influence our opinions, so I just wanted to know more about where you're coming from.
Thanks in advance for the reply.
RE: But, Connor, a question that a lot of us have: Â
Eli overthrowing and underthrowing in OTAs, Spring Practice, Training Camp and Preseason Games- why is it ALWAYS Eli's fault?
Are the WRs and TEs running the right routes? the right depth to the routes, the right timing?
It's the seemingly exclusive focus on Eli that makes me wonder about the conscious or subconscious bias of the beat writers.
Any beat writer ever use adjectives like "ineffective", "uncomfortable", "confused" etc. when it comes to the WRs and TEs?
As to the regular season, IMO the OL is in flux and, therefore, below average; so far Cruz is the only reliable WR with Randle looking confused and JJ not a good wide WR; the TEs as a group are the worst in the entire NFL; and while the RBs have good speed not one has game-breaking speed. So, how would you like to be Eli with those players around him? Yet ALL we hear is how terrible Eli is.
Dear Bobby Epps,
This is the million dollar question and you bring up an incredibly good point.
The issue?
There is NO answer. Tom Coughlin and Jerry Reese aren't exactly the most helpful when it comes to giving reporters insight into their assignments. We don't have the playbook so we don't know if Cruz ran that route two yards to shallow or deep. We don't know if Randle broke off the route earlier. Manning himself won't be one to tell you either way other than, "Well, we need to do better."
Could it be all on Eli? Yes. Could it be all on the receivers? Yes. Could it be a mixture? Most likely.
The issue is there is no way to know. All there is to know is Manning underthrew or overthrew a wide receiver and the pass was incomplete.
There was one particular play in the Colts game that stood out in outlining EXACTLY what you said.
I was watching film with Jordan Raanan of NJ.com. Manning took a five-step drop, planted his back foot and went to throw a pass on a comeback/curl to (I believe) Randle on the outside. Manning looked like he went to release the ball, he hesitated, then threw and it bounced incomplete.
Jordan saw this and said it was Manning's fault, he can't hesitate like that. I saw this and said it's the receivers fault, Manning WANTED to throw it early but couldn't because he didn't turn around.
That's it exactly. No one knows. Could it be Eli? Yes. Could it be the receiver on that play? Yes. But the end result is the same. Only person that knows what was SUPPOSED to happen are the coaches and players.
Not that it matters either way, and it's not meant as a shot or anything, just curious to try and get a better understanding of your perspective and where you're coming from when forming opinions. Did you follow the team this closely prior to joining BBI?
Again, not a knock on your analysis, and I understand you're reporting what you see - but it's human nature to let our personal experiences and viewpoints influence our opinions, so I just wanted to know more about where you're coming from.
Thanks in advance for the reply.
I'm not a Giants fan, but a very big football fan. When entering this field, you can't be a fan of a specific team. I can assure you that I have followed every team in the NFC East extensively since the early 2000s. I can talk to you about everyone from Ron Dixon, Reggie Torbor and Kerry Collins, to Kenny Holmes and Osi. I'm 22, so years prior to that are based off readings and research, not first-hand exp.
Where I am coming from is analyzing the Giants not as a Giants fan, but as a beat writer/analyst. Personally, I believe my opinion will be of more use to you this way. Here's why:
As a fan, you can want to see things. You want to see all the good in Eli, the promise of the offensive line and great play from the secondary. Whether it's there or not. You can overlook the bad because you want to desperately see the good.
As an outsider, you don't want to see anything. You simply what's there to see without any bias. You see the promise of players, who looks good and who doesn't. You can give an opinion and thought without any swayed opinion. It is what it is.
In comment 11831866 Connor_Hughes said:
[quote] In comment 11831851 Bobby Epps said:
you have to understand that every interception since 2009 for Eli has been the receivers fault or gilbrides fault for having a complicated offense... when you understand that you will grasp the anger and flack you get for pointing out that Eli looks bad... and frankly has regardless of Oline and WR since mid 2012. the worse play in the colts game was when we ran a quick out... he hesitated for a split second and then threw it and it should have been a pick 6...
I think the giants will run more of the 2 minute style game and run a lot... I think we saw the worst of the giants offense in the preseason... but just because i believe that... and see the giants as a 9-7 team... doesnt mean im goiing to sit here and act like an unbiased person shouldnt think that the eli of preseason and the last 1.5 yrs isnt one of the worst both statistical and eye test QBs in the league.
You're 22. That explains a lot. Your tweets and this previous article come off as very immature.
Dodge,
I am sorry that you feel that way. I do my best to make my work as detailed and informative as possible. Without coming off as arrogant, I believe my featured articles, camp reports and game reviews accomplish that and more. I am my harshest critic and am constantly comparing my work to the legends of the NY media industry (Serby, Schwartz, Garafolo) in hopes of some day reaching their level.
I apologize for this opinioned, instant-analysis article didn't meet your standards. I will do my best to work on improving that in the future, but I have to respectively say I will not every write something I do not believe or something to strictly sugar coat something.
If Eli Manning looks great next week, I'll write that. If he doesn't, I'll write that too.
I am going to use this quote from you as an example of why we need more analysis of what the problem is...
Quote:
the worse play in the colts game was when we ran a quick out... he hesitated for a split second and then threw it and it should have been a pick 6...
Lets put the history behind and just analyze this play. I remember it vividly. As you describe it is 100% correct. But here are questions that I think need to be answered.
1. Why did he hesitate? Did Randle react to late to a break? Did Eli wait for the WR to clear a defender? Was he gun shy?
2. Why did randle drift on a stop pattern. He did not come back to the ball whatsoever. He actually went deeper and wider into his route, giving the DB the opportunity to jump it. If he comes back to the ball, the DB would have to go through him.
Again, its not say Eli isnt at fault, but there are so many little things that go into the play that the untrained eye doesnt see, its nearly impossible to place blame on 1 particular player.
agree more analysis is needed on why things happened Â
you will get no argument from me there...
but i will say... as a QB... if you hesitate... then you dont throw. thats the bigger issue on that one and he should be better then that.
i would like better color as to why as well... as it irks me each time it happens!
RE: agree more analysis is needed on why things happened Â
you will get no argument from me there...
but i will say... as a QB... if you hesitate... then you dont throw. thats the bigger issue on that one and he should be better then that.
i would like better color as to why as well... as it irks me each time it happens!
See in my opinion if a QB hesitates its either because...
1. He isnt trusting his arm
2. The WR isnt looking
Either case, its a HUGE problem because these are timing plays and the ball has to be out.
To me this is a lot of the product of the over analysis of our day. We are outsiders (even the beat writers because they aren't there in the meeting and film rooms) trying to piece things together from practices. In many cases even the coaches themselves don't know the answers. Sure, they would have a much better idea than we would if you asked them how the team will do this year, but quite often even they would be wrong.
I am less worried about Eli than many other things. I have watched Eli for a long time and I have a pretty good idea what he is. I have been pretty critical of him over the past two seasons as I saw too many fans giving him too much of a pass for his performance on the basis of there being other issues.
I grade Eli on the basis that he is a franchise QB and I expect him to be able to perform at a high level even when things are not perfect around him. I expect him to make others around him better. And you know what? Eli does that. That said, what I am seeing it is completely unfair to hold Eli accountable for the problems right now. What I am seeing is a state where the OLine and WRs are putting him in position where he needs to be perfect to extend drives. You want to talk about completion %? Watch other QBs and tell me what percentage of their completions were made to WRs who had space from the defender -where the throw didn't have to be perfect. Eli has thrown a lot of catchable balls to targets who had failed to separate but the ball is contested and they don't hold on to it. Professional receivers need to make those plays, at least the #1s and #2s, not every time, but sometimes they need to make the play and I just don't see our guys holding on. Close. Not easy, but catchable pass. But incomplete. Drive after drive. Nicks used to make some of those catches, before last year. So did Steve Smith. And Toomer. And Burress. And a lot of other WRs playing for other teams right now. Outside of Cruz, who is not a true #1 type receiver, there is no one you even remotely can trust, and that goes for TEs, and RBs too, at least until we see something on the playing field from Jennings.
When Eli was younger, I felt we needed to scrutinize over every pass on the practice field. He is well past that now. I know what he is. There are better QBs in the league than Eli, but not nearly as many people think. Watch some games and see how many of those huge performances and great drives involve good protection and playmakers in the passing game. Sure, maybe a QB does something special for a play along the way, but what I am seeing right now is that is pretty much what is required from Eli to extend just about any drive. Is this really such a big surprise? Read the names of our starting OLine. Read the name of our WRs and TEs. Then ask yourselves, does this sound like a talented roster? Even remotely?
There is a lot of "you" and your opinion in your writing.
That style will always leave room for a lot of criticism as opposed to someone just reporting stats or game facts.
There are two camps here at BBI--those who always see the glass half full and those who see it half empty. To the former Eli is generally a victim, capable of only greatness but for the failings of those around him--the line, the coordinator, playcalling, and the receivers. Even his boneheaded throws are only the result of his unmatched desire to make a play.
To the latter Eli is an average QB who got lucky twice,notwithstanding the footprints on his face from opposing linemen and the fact that some of his receivers cannot seem to memorize a playback or that he has played long periods of time without a healthy RB or a quality TE.
You will not win. My suggestion is that you try to make everyone equally unhappy with your writing and then you will have achieved true success.
Everyone has their own style and you will never please everyone so don't worry about the complaints and write as you choose.
My only suggestion would be to include a players position in front of his name when first referencing him. There are a wide variety fans of all different knowledge levels of the team and any fan reading what you write would in my opinion benefit if he could understand what position you are referring to. Here is and example from your tidbits of what I mean.
I think it would help the reader if you had added CB Chandler Fenner. Just my two cents.
Quote:
•Since being signed, Chandler Fenner has done nothing but flash time and time again in practice and on the game day field. He did that again Friday night with a pair of pass breakups. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Holy Cross alum land on the practice squad.
here is some advice. If you see HomerJones agreeing with your writing or sticking up for you, you know your writing sucks. I dont know if there is a bigger moron on this site than him.
Our WR's and TE's suck, and our offensive line couldn't block last yr Â
here is some advice. If you see HomerJones agreeing with your writing or sticking up for you, you know your writing sucks. I dont know if there is a bigger moron on this site than him.
There are two camps here at BBI--those who always see the glass half full and those who see it half empty. To the former Eli is generally a victim, capable of only greatness but for the failings of those around him--the line, the coordinator, playcalling, and the receivers. Even his boneheaded throws are only the result of his unmatched desire to make a play.
To the latter Eli is an average QB who got lucky twice,notwithstanding the footprints on his face from opposing linemen and the fact that some of his receivers cannot seem to memorize a playback or that he has played long periods of time without a healthy RB or a quality TE.
You will not win. My suggestion is that you try to make everyone equally unhappy with your writing and then you will have achieved true success.
You are missing a few 'camps'. There is the camp that thinks Eli may be aging quickly and that his best days are behind him, and that the days of waiting for Eli to bail out the team are over. (I'd say this is where the coaching staff is) There is the camp that believes there is something physically wrong with him. There is the camp that believes this short pass offense does not allow him to use his gifts to their best advantage.
It's trite to say divide the board into two warring camps with the "truth" somewhere in the "middle." There are more nuanced views here even if there are the dead head enders like dep who shield Eli by blaming everyone but the fucking peanut vendor for a missed pass.
can you show a post where I blamed everyone but Eli?
I think my initial post asked for more in depth analysis WHY the offense is sputtering. I want to know whats wrong with Eli. Are the WRs getting in and out of breaks in the timely manner. Is Eli;s mechanics way off. I know that requires in-depth thinking, which you cannot accomplish.
Forget the fact I have said numerous times, the offense should be ground orienated. We should rely on the defense and Weatherford to play a field position game.
But keep on being a hall of fame fucktard amongst many here on the board. Your act is old and tiresome. I just pray that you hang out with your Gilbride fathead on game day rather than watching the Giants.
And even if its for the entire preseason, why is it bad? Is it arm slot? Is it his feet? Is he missing guys, wrong reads? Are the WRs open? Is the OL giving him enough time? Is just talent at this point?
As you can see if Eli is bad....WHY is he bad? Thats what people want to know. But trust me, we dont need to find out from someone as inept from you.
With all the complaining about the Oline, I have been saying the receivers are an issue until I'm blue in the face. this is a bad group.
AND, that John Jerry looked good.
It's a shame about Harris because both Randle and Jernigan are too inconsistent to be considered decent NFL talent.
I'd like to see a lot more of Corey on the field.
AND, that John Jerry looked good.
Jerry looked fine to me as well, but who can really tell, being at the mercy of what the TV cameras decide to follow?
AND, that John Jerry looked good.
Eli did have better protection last night. The Oline held up against the 2nd teamers, but the pass catchers were bad. Every throw should not have to be into a small window, especially against non starters.
Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.
I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.
2) That said, Eli Manning may be running for his life again. Even with a 3 step drop, this offense often seems to not have quite enough time to set up even the short routes properly.
3) Williams is looking more and more like an excellent pick; a steal. I loved the idea of bringing in Jennings and wanted him as the starter as soon as they signed him. I have big expectations for him based on his strong showing last year once he started for the Raiders. He is not exceptional, but he does everything well. But, Williams is an excellent backup right out of the gate. I agree that if he can improve his hands and blocking, he is an every down back in a year.
4) I am so sick of Randle. Beckham can't get on the field soon enough. Not that Eli has looked good. but, one thing I trust with him is command of the offense and reading the D. Eli doesn't seem to have these issues with any other receivers besides Randle and Manningham (from his first stint here). Randle has the talent to make big plays. but, even in an offense with far fewer reads, he is still consistently running the wrong route and/or bad routes. I wish we were deep enough at WR to make an example of him and cut him. Since that isn't happening, I hope and pray that Beckham gets up to speed right away and very soon is taking the bulk of the snaps opposite Cruz in 2 WR sets.
5) Who will be the 2 starting OLBs? I hope they recognize Kennard's play and he is one of them.
6) As Eric mentioned the other day, the officiating this summer has been maddening. But, they do this every summer. The league picks one or two things to concentrate on and the flags go crazy for those. This summer it has been defensive holding and illegal contact. I only hope they go back to "normal" next week. I just don't get how you can call an incidental hand check with both players doing it, and then not call a defensive back running into a leaping WR with his back still to the ball and the ball still in the air (as happened with the Nassib throw to Parker in the end zone), among other more egregious violations from both teams. It just makes no sense. Even with the "normal" state of affairs, far too much incidental contact is called on defenses the last couple of years.
Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.
I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.
I think Connor's assessment of Eli was on the money when taken in the context it was written which was an evaluation of Eli based on his performance in ALL 5 pre-season games not just for last night.
That said, I blame Eli's poor performance totally on Jerry Reece who completely screwed up and neglected our o-Line and then again gambled this year after knowing how weak it was last year.
And even if its for the entire preseason, why is it bad? Is it arm slot? Is it his feet? Is he missing guys, wrong reads? Are the WRs open? Is the OL giving him enough time? Is just talent at this point?
Right now to me, it sems Connor is writing what BBI wants to read so people can chime in and read his column. He's reminding more of a NY Post writer than a beat writer.
That brings me to my next point. You can make up all you want about Eli being skittish, watching the rush, etc. I don't buy it, but whatever. But, when it comes specifically to miscommunications with Randle, I will blame Randle 100% of the time. Eli has proven year after year and game after game to have full command of his offense. he may make some boneheaded decisions on the fly because he tries to do too much, but pre-snap reads, audibles, knowing where everyone is supposed to be, etc. have always been his strengths. I will always believe Eli made the right call or read and that Randle, who has a history of not knowing waht route to run and not running precise routes, was wrong. It is that simple.
Eli is one of the hardest working QBs in the league off the field. He is also one of the smartest and toughest. For these reasons, I am still not worried.
If Eli were to go down, I don't think I would be terribly confident with either guy at the helm. But, I would be more worried and have absolutely no optimistic outlook with Painter at the helm. I don't think I would say the same with Nassib.
Quote:
are as bad as the jokes he makes on his in-game tweets.
Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.
I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.
I think Connor's assessment of Eli was on the money when taken in the context it was written which was an evaluation of Eli based on his performance in ALL 5 pre-season games not just for last night.
That said, I blame Eli's poor performance totally on Jerry Reece who completely screwed up and neglected our o-Line and then again gambled this year after knowing how weak it was last year.
You put a lot of blame on a man who's name you can't spell correctly.
No one person deserves the bulk of the blame, it's shared throughout the entire organization--top to bottom.
Third and short: Eli rolls out to right, feeling pressure, fires a strike to Randle. Randle drops it.
Third and short: Eli puts a screen pass right on the TE, TE is immediately hit, gains no yardage.
Third and medium(?) Randle has 1-on-1 coverage on the outside, Eli throws the ball as if Randle is going to keep going up the sideline, Randle pulls up.
Third and medium (?) Eli misses Cruz on a crossing pattern. A tight window and not the worst throw in the world, but no chance for success the way that Eli throws it.
So, while I'd agree with the idea that the passing game is a mess, I would argue that only the last one could be pinned on Eli. The completion that gained no yardage was a good play by the Pats LB, but you've got to expect an NFL TE to get a yard there.
I was half hoping Coughlin would let the 1s out there for one more drive.
Is Randle an idiot? After a month of practice, how is he still so far off what Eli is thinking?
I think that was the point Connor was making (let's see Washington play with the 2s so, as you said, we can see how good he really may be). I confidently say he's better than Randle, right or wrong, because I'm sick of Randle's inconsistency. I'd prefer to not see him on the field anymore while Washington catches everything thrown his way.
The one completion would've been a first down if Kellen Davis wasn't garbage.
And a missed connection to Cruz.
I also look at what snaps the starting offense did take and see how they tried to force specific types of plays (i.e. certain formations and routes). I expect much more variety, creativity, and fluidity in the regular season. It may not be all roses to start, but there is enough talent there to be a good offense. To that end, I think the effectiveness of the running game is being too easily glossed over. We may actually, for the first time in a few years, have a running game that can set the tone and set up the pass.
The throw to Davis, I think is fair to pin most of the blame on Davis for not getting a deeper push before cutting outside. However, I think a seasoned QB should also see that the route was too shallow. That said, it is also reasonable to expect a big TE like Davis to be able to pick up 2 yards with a small DB as the only defender near him.
Can we just concentrate of breakdowns and review? I don't care if you're negative about a player, but I don't know why we need to write like a high school student. Do YOU think you need to capitalize for emphasis? Do you NEED to write like this? Can you BE any worse?
Lets stick to breaking down the game and stop trying to be Adam Schein.
Did Chip Kelly (and I am not suggesting that the Giants offense will be where the Eagles was last year) show his offense in the pre-season games? NO. But in the opener against Washington he put up 35 points in a half, with his two tackles wide and run/pass options.
That is why I believe that we haven't even seen the offense yet so it is hard to draw conclusions from these pre-season games.
The one completion would've been a first down if Kellen Davis wasn't garbage.
And a missed connection to Cruz.
Peer pressure? He wants to be accepted as an actual beat writer and fit in so instead of providing good analysis he joins the crowd and throws out snarky tweets.
Don't know if any of what I typed is true but I do wonder why the writers seem to think it's par for the course to pile on Manning.
They should move him to C now. He is the present AND future.
Quote:
was singled out several times by Banks in the broadcast for excellent blocks in the running game. I focused on him a lot more than Jerry as well.
They should move him to C now. He is the present AND future.
And if he moves to center who plays guard? And do you really want to shuffle the line again? Leave the line alone for now and lets see if they can get better with the additional time together.
Quote:
was singled out several times by Banks in the broadcast for excellent blocks in the running game. I focused on him a lot more than Jerry as well.
They should move him to C now. He is the present AND future.
And who plays guard? Walton can't. Just leave it alone. Richburg has played Center for years. When it's time for him to take over, he will.
Quote:
In comment 11831080 Matt M. said:
Quote:
was singled out several times by Banks in the broadcast for excellent blocks in the running game. I focused on him a lot more than Jerry as well.
They should move him to C now. He is the present AND future.
And who plays guard? Walton can't. Just leave it alone. Richburg has played Center for years. When it's time for him to take over, he will.
You said it in your other post: John Jerry looks good at RG. Leave him there, move Moseley back to LG, then Schwartz when he comes back. C is more important than G, and Walton has not been impressive.
Trust me -- the other NFL teams are not licking their chops waiting for the Giants waiver list to hit the wires.
The only salivating that's going on right now is thinking about Eli dropping back for a pass behind this offensive line.
Now there's some red meat for you.
There are plenty of things to point out where you've seen significant improvement: Moore, Jennings, Pugh, Kennard, McClain, J.Williams.
Basically the whole defense has been playing really well. The Oline is improving I think. We should go with the Beatty-Richburg-Walton-Jerry-Pugh combo. Was our best one yet.
One may crave more professional, deeper analysis of the Giants, but this article wasn't the proper place to expect it and Connor shouldn't be chastised for not providing it in this particular piece.
Little separation. No easy throws for Eli and some catchable balls they aren't coming up with.
Jerry looks good at RG and Richburg whenever he plays at C.
I wonder, therefore, how an OL of Beatty-Reynolds-Richburg-Jerry-Pugh would look.
You have to know it looks like we will be able to run the ball. That is something we could not do at all last year. That should open things up for the pass game.
It's time!!!!!!!!!!
Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.
I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.
I appreciate your criticism. Unfortunately, when at the physical games, I cannot re-watch plays or use instant replay. Much of the analysis and opinion I am forced to put together are based off viewing a play once. Thus, these reports (quick hits and tidbits) are mean to be the initial/immediate reaction.
Please, view our game reviews which run 2-4 days after the game is played. This is the insight I am able to gather following an intensive film session. I dedicated two-to-three hours each game to watch the film and give you, the fans, as much insight as possible.
When I was brought on by BBI, it was not as fan. If you want things sugar coated, you aren't going to like my reading. I'm not a fan of the team, I'm an analysis. I want to put it like it is. I'm sorry if that has rubbed you the wrong way, but that is my intention.
The way I view it, you will gain much more from my writing if I write as an analysis and put things as they are. Would you rather me shine something that's a dud?
I have been very up front with everyone that if you wish to contact me with any question/comment/concern, please shoot me an email. I do my best to answer at a timely fashion: connor_hughes@bigblueinteractive.com
Can we just concentrate of breakdowns and review? I don't care if you're negative about a player, but I don't know why we need to write like a high school student. Do YOU think you need to capitalize for emphasis? Do you NEED to write like this? Can you BE any worse?
Lets stick to breaking down the game and stop trying to be Adam Schein.
Dear Dodge,
I apologize if you do not like the way quick hits and tidbits is written, it is not meant to be an "article" per say, but rather a blog. If you'd like to judge my writing level or talent, please read some of the featured articles that I've written.
Quick hits and tidbits is designed to be an open note book. You open it up, here are the notes. It's a different style I've tried:
Example of features:
Peter Butkus plays through blindness
http://highschoolsports.nj.com/news/article/-1284165491754479725/morris-county-boys-basketball-mendhams-peter-butkus-a-true-story-of-perserverence/
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree for Zak DeOssie
http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2014/08/17/zak-deossie-consistent-giants/
Devon Kennard is New York's everywhere man
http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2014/07/30/devon-kennard-new-yorks-rookie-everywhere-man/
David Wilson says goodbye to Giants and NFL
http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2014/08/06/david-wilson-ready-write-next-chapter-life/
Quote:
Randle is responsible for two of the 3 passes he threw being incomplete.
The one completion would've been a first down if Kellen Davis wasn't garbage.
And a missed connection to Cruz.
Peer pressure? He wants to be accepted as an actual beat writer and fit in so instead of providing good analysis he joins the crowd and throws out snarky tweets.
Don't know if any of what I typed is true but I do wonder why the writers seem to think it's par for the course to pile on Manning.
There is no need to feel pressured or want to fit in. The reason that most --if not all-- beat writers send their criticism towards Manning is that throughout every training camp practice, he's needed and deserved it.
From being at every camp practice but one, Manning has struggled mightily. There has been overthrows and underthrows. It hasn't been pretty and it hasn't changed when he's stepped on the field.
These judgements haven't been made just based on Manning's preseason performance, but that on the practice field more than anything else.
Any comments or concerns, please email me:
connor_hughes@bigblueinteractive.com
The thing about BBI that is important for you to know..there are lot of morons on here that don't really know alot about the Giants, even though they think that they do, and then you have a group of extremely knowledgeable and intelligent fans that know alot more than the average football fan. So when you make a reactive comment that may seem off base, and it doesn't have alot of thought put into it, you're going to lose credibility with some people on this site. And that may not matter to you, which is fine, but this site is different than other fan sites in that you're not going to get much by certain people here. If something comes across as irresponsible reporting; more than likely you're going to get called out for it; more so than you would on other sites. And its not really about people being pissed that its a negative comment about the Giants...its more likely to be about it not being accurate...based on the reading/research that the fans have done.
That's my mistake: analyst
The thing about BBI that is important for you to know..there are lot of morons on here that don't really know alot about the Giants, even though they think that they do, and then you have a group of extremely knowledgeable and intelligent fans that know alot more than the average football fan. So when you make a reactive comment that may seem off base, and it doesn't have alot of thought put into it, you're going to lose credibility with some people on this site. And that may not matter to you, which is fine, but this site is different than other fan sites in that you're not going to get much by certain people here. If something comes across as irresponsible reporting; more than likely you're going to get called out for it; more so than you would on other sites. And its not really about people being pissed that its a negative comment about the Giants...its more likely to be about it not being accurate...based on the reading/research that the fans have done.
Andy,
Thank you for the insight and I agree. Hopefully, there is much more of an emphasis put into the physical game review. This is where I am able to go back and watch a play three or four times. I can see what happens with the line, receivers and others. because I can make out different points.
Reviewing past game reviews, I have retracted several assumptions I had made in "Quick hits and tidbits" because I got a chance to see the play again. One that comes instantly to my mind is the play of Walter Thurmond against, I believe, the Steelers?
Watching the game, I thought Thurmond had been beat multiple times and played poorly. When watching the film, that was shown it was not the case. Thurmond had good coverage and a perfect pass/non OPI hurt his cause.
Sadly, when at a game I do not have the ability to see a play more than once.
From now on, I will make sure to emphasize this in the the beginning portion of the article.
Dear Burlyman,
I believe that I have done this with my access with the featured articles and camp reports provided to BBI. Also, I have worked to use that to add insight into all game reviews and previews.
It's tough to gain instant analysis into this particular piece (quick hits and tidbits) because I only get to see a place once before it's over and done with. When watching at home, you see the play live, then replays instantly. At a game, you don't get that.
Quick Hits and Tidbits is meant to be an opinion. It's my instant thoughts after the game watching it life. Like all opinions, you either agree, or disagree with them.
Some people will agree with me, some won't. I understand that and know some will feel very strongly against my points of view.
A perfect example of what I try to bring you as BBIs beat writer is the example of Ryan Nassib. Few people were as hard on him as I was in the beginning of camp. Then, quite literally out of no where, a switch was hit with him in that Indy game. He's looked night-and-day better than he did at the beginning of camp. Thus, I've written about that.
If Manning comes out and looks unbelievable versus Detroit and in practice this week. I'll write that. When he looks bad, I write that, too.
I've given Manning praise, too. Here's what I wrote on him in a practice report this week:
----
While it was far from perfect, Monday’s practice may have been the best for Giants quarterback Eli Manning.
Again…it wasn’t perfect, but it was better.
Manning handled himself well in the pocket and connected on several deep throws. He marched the Giants up and down the field a few times and, if it wasn’t for drops, may have added two-to-three touchdowns to his practice. He didn’t work much against the starting defense, but he did a solid job against the second team.
(later in same report)
Eli Manning made the play of practice on an absolutely gorgeous throw to Rueben Randle on a flag route down the left sideline. Manning dropped the ball over the head of Antrel Rolle and in front of Walter Thurmond. It fell, literally, right into the hands of Randle.
Dear Burlyman,
I am not on salary or paid hourly by BBI. I'm a credentialed beat writer dedicated to giving you some of the more extensive coverage of the Giants on the web.
While so many have changed over to quick 300 word blogs, I've tried to keep my practice reports as detailed as possible and game reviews the same. The featured articles I've written have be in an attempt to let you, the fans, know the person behind the face mask.
If you have any additional criticism or things you'd like me to add to my work for BBI, please email me:
Connor_Hughes@bigblueinteractive.com
Are the WRs and TEs running the right routes? the right depth to the routes, the right timing?
It's the seemingly exclusive focus on Eli that makes me wonder about the conscious or subconscious bias of the beat writers.
Any beat writer ever use adjectives like "ineffective", "uncomfortable", "confused" etc. when it comes to the WRs and TEs?
As to the regular season, IMO the OL is in flux and, therefore, below average; so far Cruz is the only reliable WR with Randle looking confused and JJ not a good wide WR; the TEs as a group are the worst in the entire NFL; and while the RBs have good speed not one has game-breaking speed. So, how would you like to be Eli with those players around him? Yet ALL we hear is how terrible Eli is.
Not that it matters either way, and it's not meant as a shot or anything, just curious to try and get a better understanding of your perspective and where you're coming from when forming opinions. Did you follow the team this closely prior to joining BBI?
Again, not a knock on your analysis, and I understand you're reporting what you see - but it's human nature to let our personal experiences and viewpoints influence our opinions, so I just wanted to know more about where you're coming from.
Thanks in advance for the reply.
Are the WRs and TEs running the right routes? the right depth to the routes, the right timing?
It's the seemingly exclusive focus on Eli that makes me wonder about the conscious or subconscious bias of the beat writers.
Any beat writer ever use adjectives like "ineffective", "uncomfortable", "confused" etc. when it comes to the WRs and TEs?
As to the regular season, IMO the OL is in flux and, therefore, below average; so far Cruz is the only reliable WR with Randle looking confused and JJ not a good wide WR; the TEs as a group are the worst in the entire NFL; and while the RBs have good speed not one has game-breaking speed. So, how would you like to be Eli with those players around him? Yet ALL we hear is how terrible Eli is.
Dear Bobby Epps,
This is the million dollar question and you bring up an incredibly good point.
The issue?
There is NO answer. Tom Coughlin and Jerry Reese aren't exactly the most helpful when it comes to giving reporters insight into their assignments. We don't have the playbook so we don't know if Cruz ran that route two yards to shallow or deep. We don't know if Randle broke off the route earlier. Manning himself won't be one to tell you either way other than, "Well, we need to do better."
Could it be all on Eli? Yes. Could it be all on the receivers? Yes. Could it be a mixture? Most likely.
The issue is there is no way to know. All there is to know is Manning underthrew or overthrew a wide receiver and the pass was incomplete.
There was one particular play in the Colts game that stood out in outlining EXACTLY what you said.
I was watching film with Jordan Raanan of NJ.com. Manning took a five-step drop, planted his back foot and went to throw a pass on a comeback/curl to (I believe) Randle on the outside. Manning looked like he went to release the ball, he hesitated, then threw and it bounced incomplete.
Jordan saw this and said it was Manning's fault, he can't hesitate like that. I saw this and said it's the receivers fault, Manning WANTED to throw it early but couldn't because he didn't turn around.
That's it exactly. No one knows. Could it be Eli? Yes. Could it be the receiver on that play? Yes. But the end result is the same. Only person that knows what was SUPPOSED to happen are the coaches and players.
Not that it matters either way, and it's not meant as a shot or anything, just curious to try and get a better understanding of your perspective and where you're coming from when forming opinions. Did you follow the team this closely prior to joining BBI?
Again, not a knock on your analysis, and I understand you're reporting what you see - but it's human nature to let our personal experiences and viewpoints influence our opinions, so I just wanted to know more about where you're coming from.
Thanks in advance for the reply.
I'm not a Giants fan, but a very big football fan. When entering this field, you can't be a fan of a specific team. I can assure you that I have followed every team in the NFC East extensively since the early 2000s. I can talk to you about everyone from Ron Dixon, Reggie Torbor and Kerry Collins, to Kenny Holmes and Osi. I'm 22, so years prior to that are based off readings and research, not first-hand exp.
Where I am coming from is analyzing the Giants not as a Giants fan, but as a beat writer/analyst. Personally, I believe my opinion will be of more use to you this way. Here's why:
As a fan, you can want to see things. You want to see all the good in Eli, the promise of the offensive line and great play from the secondary. Whether it's there or not. You can overlook the bad because you want to desperately see the good.
As an outsider, you don't want to see anything. You simply what's there to see without any bias. You see the promise of players, who looks good and who doesn't. You can give an opinion and thought without any swayed opinion. It is what it is.
[quote] In comment 11831851 Bobby Epps said:
you have to understand that every interception since 2009 for Eli has been the receivers fault or gilbrides fault for having a complicated offense... when you understand that you will grasp the anger and flack you get for pointing out that Eli looks bad... and frankly has regardless of Oline and WR since mid 2012. the worse play in the colts game was when we ran a quick out... he hesitated for a split second and then threw it and it should have been a pick 6...
I think the giants will run more of the 2 minute style game and run a lot... I think we saw the worst of the giants offense in the preseason... but just because i believe that... and see the giants as a 9-7 team... doesnt mean im goiing to sit here and act like an unbiased person shouldnt think that the eli of preseason and the last 1.5 yrs isnt one of the worst both statistical and eye test QBs in the league.
Dodge,
I am sorry that you feel that way. I do my best to make my work as detailed and informative as possible. Without coming off as arrogant, I believe my featured articles, camp reports and game reviews accomplish that and more. I am my harshest critic and am constantly comparing my work to the legends of the NY media industry (Serby, Schwartz, Garafolo) in hopes of some day reaching their level.
I apologize for this opinioned, instant-analysis article didn't meet your standards. I will do my best to work on improving that in the future, but I have to respectively say I will not every write something I do not believe or something to strictly sugar coat something.
If Eli Manning looks great next week, I'll write that. If he doesn't, I'll write that too.
I appreciate you taking the time to read
-Connor
Lets put the history behind and just analyze this play. I remember it vividly. As you describe it is 100% correct. But here are questions that I think need to be answered.
1. Why did he hesitate? Did Randle react to late to a break? Did Eli wait for the WR to clear a defender? Was he gun shy?
2. Why did randle drift on a stop pattern. He did not come back to the ball whatsoever. He actually went deeper and wider into his route, giving the DB the opportunity to jump it. If he comes back to the ball, the DB would have to go through him.
Again, its not say Eli isnt at fault, but there are so many little things that go into the play that the untrained eye doesnt see, its nearly impossible to place blame on 1 particular player.
but i will say... as a QB... if you hesitate... then you dont throw. thats the bigger issue on that one and he should be better then that.
i would like better color as to why as well... as it irks me each time it happens!
but i will say... as a QB... if you hesitate... then you dont throw. thats the bigger issue on that one and he should be better then that.
i would like better color as to why as well... as it irks me each time it happens!
See in my opinion if a QB hesitates its either because...
1. He isnt trusting his arm
2. The WR isnt looking
Either case, its a HUGE problem because these are timing plays and the ball has to be out.
I am less worried about Eli than many other things. I have watched Eli for a long time and I have a pretty good idea what he is. I have been pretty critical of him over the past two seasons as I saw too many fans giving him too much of a pass for his performance on the basis of there being other issues.
I grade Eli on the basis that he is a franchise QB and I expect him to be able to perform at a high level even when things are not perfect around him. I expect him to make others around him better. And you know what? Eli does that. That said, what I am seeing it is completely unfair to hold Eli accountable for the problems right now. What I am seeing is a state where the OLine and WRs are putting him in position where he needs to be perfect to extend drives. You want to talk about completion %? Watch other QBs and tell me what percentage of their completions were made to WRs who had space from the defender -where the throw didn't have to be perfect. Eli has thrown a lot of catchable balls to targets who had failed to separate but the ball is contested and they don't hold on to it. Professional receivers need to make those plays, at least the #1s and #2s, not every time, but sometimes they need to make the play and I just don't see our guys holding on. Close. Not easy, but catchable pass. But incomplete. Drive after drive. Nicks used to make some of those catches, before last year. So did Steve Smith. And Toomer. And Burress. And a lot of other WRs playing for other teams right now. Outside of Cruz, who is not a true #1 type receiver, there is no one you even remotely can trust, and that goes for TEs, and RBs too, at least until we see something on the playing field from Jennings.
When Eli was younger, I felt we needed to scrutinize over every pass on the practice field. He is well past that now. I know what he is. There are better QBs in the league than Eli, but not nearly as many people think. Watch some games and see how many of those huge performances and great drives involve good protection and playmakers in the passing game. Sure, maybe a QB does something special for a play along the way, but what I am seeing right now is that is pretty much what is required from Eli to extend just about any drive. Is this really such a big surprise? Read the names of our starting OLine. Read the name of our WRs and TEs. Then ask yourselves, does this sound like a talented roster? Even remotely?
That style will always leave room for a lot of criticism as opposed to someone just reporting stats or game facts.
Keep up the good work.
To the latter Eli is an average QB who got lucky twice,notwithstanding the footprints on his face from opposing linemen and the fact that some of his receivers cannot seem to memorize a playback or that he has played long periods of time without a healthy RB or a quality TE.
You will not win. My suggestion is that you try to make everyone equally unhappy with your writing and then you will have achieved true success.
My only suggestion would be to include a players position in front of his name when first referencing him. There are a wide variety fans of all different knowledge levels of the team and any fan reading what you write would in my opinion benefit if he could understand what position you are referring to. Here is and example from your tidbits of what I mean.
I think it would help the reader if you had added CB Chandler Fenner. Just my two cents.
Remember that and you will be fine.
This place is a miserable shit show.
To the latter Eli is an average QB who got lucky twice,notwithstanding the footprints on his face from opposing linemen and the fact that some of his receivers cannot seem to memorize a playback or that he has played long periods of time without a healthy RB or a quality TE.
You will not win. My suggestion is that you try to make everyone equally unhappy with your writing and then you will have achieved true success.
It's trite to say divide the board into two warring camps with the "truth" somewhere in the "middle." There are more nuanced views here even if there are the dead head enders like dep who shield Eli by blaming everyone but the fucking peanut vendor for a missed pass.
I think my initial post asked for more in depth analysis WHY the offense is sputtering. I want to know whats wrong with Eli. Are the WRs getting in and out of breaks in the timely manner. Is Eli;s mechanics way off. I know that requires in-depth thinking, which you cannot accomplish.
Forget the fact I have said numerous times, the offense should be ground orienated. We should rely on the defense and Weatherford to play a field position game.
But keep on being a hall of fame fucktard amongst many here on the board. Your act is old and tiresome. I just pray that you hang out with your Gilbride fathead on game day rather than watching the Giants.
As you can see if Eli is bad....WHY is he bad? Thats what people want to know. But trust me, we dont need to find out from someone as inept from you.