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Quick Hits and Tidbits: Giants - Patriots

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/29/2014 8:49 am
by Connor Hughes...
Quick Hits and Tidbits: New York Giants 16 – New England Patriots 13 - ( New Window )
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You've  
AcidTest : 8/29/2014 9:08 am : link
got to wonder if despite missing all of camp and the preseason, Holliday still has a shot at the 53. Also think the Giants could keep Idonije over Kuhn. Some of the players we cut will definitely be picked up by other teams IMO. A lot won't make it through waivers.
If I had to choose  
Matt M. : 8/29/2014 9:11 am : link
I'd take Idonije over Kuhn also. I like his versatility. But, I would like to keep both, as Kuhn has improved.
You can say it was against backups all you want  
UberAlias : 8/29/2014 9:22 am : link
But Last night was on the receivers, more than Eli. No separation, dropped passes, communication errors...

With all the complaining about the Oline, I have been saying the receivers are an issue until I'm blue in the face. this is a bad group.
I was listening to the game on Sirrius so  
Curtis in VA : 8/29/2014 9:23 am : link
I didnt see it, but it seemed to me like Eli could have been 3 of 4 instead of 1 of 4 if Randle didnt have his head up his butt. Also seemed like Eli had better protection last night.

AND, that John Jerry looked good.
Corey Washington  
nicky43 : 8/29/2014 9:24 am : link
Could he be our secret weapon? Connor makes a good point about why we don't see him starting at least with the twos and as far as I'm concerned he's much better than Randle and is indeed our number two WR next to Cruz until Odel can finally get on the field.

It's a shame about Harris because both Randle and Jernigan are too inconsistent to be considered decent NFL talent.

I'd like to see a lot more of Corey on the field.
RE: I was listening to the game on Sirrius so  
Big Blue '56 : 8/29/2014 9:25 am : link
In comment 11831047 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
I didnt see it, but it seemed to me like Eli could have been 3 of 4 instead of 1 of 4 if Randle didnt have his head up his butt. Also seemed like Eli had better protection last night.

AND, that John Jerry looked good.


Jerry looked fine to me as well, but who can really tell, being at the mercy of what the TV cameras decide to follow?
RE: I was listening to the game on Sirrius so  
UberAlias : 8/29/2014 9:26 am : link
In comment 11831047 Curtis in VA said:
Quote:
I didnt see it, but it seemed to me like Eli could have been 3 of 4 instead of 1 of 4 if Randle didnt have his head up his butt. Also seemed like Eli had better protection last night.

AND, that John Jerry looked good.


Eli did have better protection last night. The Oline held up against the 2nd teamers, but the pass catchers were bad. Every throw should not have to be into a small window, especially against non starters.
Connor's reports  
dep026 : 8/29/2014 9:26 am : link
are as bad as the jokes he makes on his in-game tweets.

Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.

I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 8/29/2014 9:32 am : link
1) As Connor indicated in the game preview, last night's OL is very likely the best we've tried this summer. While pass protection was still an issue, Richburg and Jerry were better than anyone else we put at either OG spot. The running game, especially with the two of them, looks like it will actually be a strength. that may prove very important early in the season.

2) That said, Eli Manning may be running for his life again. Even with a 3 step drop, this offense often seems to not have quite enough time to set up even the short routes properly.

3) Williams is looking more and more like an excellent pick; a steal. I loved the idea of bringing in Jennings and wanted him as the starter as soon as they signed him. I have big expectations for him based on his strong showing last year once he started for the Raiders. He is not exceptional, but he does everything well. But, Williams is an excellent backup right out of the gate. I agree that if he can improve his hands and blocking, he is an every down back in a year.

4) I am so sick of Randle. Beckham can't get on the field soon enough. Not that Eli has looked good. but, one thing I trust with him is command of the offense and reading the D. Eli doesn't seem to have these issues with any other receivers besides Randle and Manningham (from his first stint here). Randle has the talent to make big plays. but, even in an offense with far fewer reads, he is still consistently running the wrong route and/or bad routes. I wish we were deep enough at WR to make an example of him and cut him. Since that isn't happening, I hope and pray that Beckham gets up to speed right away and very soon is taking the bulk of the snaps opposite Cruz in 2 WR sets.

5) Who will be the 2 starting OLBs? I hope they recognize Kennard's play and he is one of them.

6) As Eric mentioned the other day, the officiating this summer has been maddening. But, they do this every summer. The league picks one or two things to concentrate on and the flags go crazy for those. This summer it has been defensive holding and illegal contact. I only hope they go back to "normal" next week. I just don't get how you can call an incidental hand check with both players doing it, and then not call a defensive back running into a leaping WR with his back still to the ball and the ball still in the air (as happened with the Nassib throw to Parker in the end zone), among other more egregious violations from both teams. It just makes no sense. Even with the "normal" state of affairs, far too much incidental contact is called on defenses the last couple of years.
the Giants have to clean up the pass rush up the middle  
Peter from CT : 8/29/2014 9:34 am : link
they aren't forming a clean pocket in the middl. It keeps forcing Eli out and doesn't give him anywhere to step into the throw. He played better last night than he is given credit for. But the middle is a continual problem.
Richburg in particular  
Matt M. : 8/29/2014 9:34 am : link
was singled out several times by Banks in the broadcast for excellent blocks in the running game. I focused on him a lot more than Jerry as well.
RE: Connor's reports  
nicky43 : 8/29/2014 9:34 am : link
In comment 11831059 dep026 said:
Quote:
are as bad as the jokes he makes on his in-game tweets.

Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.

I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.


I think Connor's assessment of Eli was on the money when taken in the context it was written which was an evaluation of Eli based on his performance in ALL 5 pre-season games not just for last night.

That said, I blame Eli's poor performance totally on Jerry Reece who completely screwed up and neglected our o-Line and then again gambled this year after knowing how weak it was last year.

As for Washington  
Matt M. : 8/29/2014 9:37 am : link
I don't think anyone should be able to confidently say he is better than anyone, as he has done everything against 3rd stringers. That said, I do agree that last night in particular, he should have been getting snaps with the 1st and 2nd team. I say this not because he deserves it. Rather, to see if he deserves it. With Beckham still out, they basically have a scrambled depth chart after Randle and Cruz. It would be nice to know what Washington and Parker could do against better talent. That said, last night probably wouldn't have been a big test given most of NEs starters didn't play.
No he was  
dep026 : 8/29/2014 9:38 am : link
talking about the play last night.

And even if its for the entire preseason, why is it bad? Is it arm slot? Is it his feet? Is he missing guys, wrong reads? Are the WRs open? Is the OL giving him enough time? Is just talent at this point?

Right now to me, it sems Connor is writing what BBI wants to read so people can chime in and read his column. He's reminding more of a NY Post writer than a beat writer.
Re: Eli  
Matt M. : 8/29/2014 9:42 am : link
Even if you look at all 5 games, his overall numbers are not terrible. They amount to a so-so 3/4 of a game. He was about 50%, which is not great, with no INTs and about 190 yards. These are not spectacular. But, they also aren't terrible. They also could have been stronger last night if Randle wasn't a bonehead.

That brings me to my next point. You can make up all you want about Eli being skittish, watching the rush, etc. I don't buy it, but whatever. But, when it comes specifically to miscommunications with Randle, I will blame Randle 100% of the time. Eli has proven year after year and game after game to have full command of his offense. he may make some boneheaded decisions on the fly because he tries to do too much, but pre-snap reads, audibles, knowing where everyone is supposed to be, etc. have always been his strengths. I will always believe Eli made the right call or read and that Randle, who has a history of not knowing waht route to run and not running precise routes, was wrong. It is that simple.

Eli is one of the hardest working QBs in the league off the field. He is also one of the smartest and toughest. For these reasons, I am still not worried.
My last point  
Matt M. : 8/29/2014 9:46 am : link
I hope Painter is not on the final roster. Whether you believe Nassib is a bust, the next QB in waiting, or somewhere in between, it shouldn't matter. Painter is and always has been a terrible QB at the pro level. With Nassib now having gone through 2 camps and elevating his play, there is absolutely no reason to keep Painter, especially in a year when we really need that extra roster spot for a number of positions (OL, CB, S, WR, possibly RB, possibly DL). He serves no purpose.

If Eli were to go down, I don't think I would be terribly confident with either guy at the helm. But, I would be more worried and have absolutely no optimistic outlook with Painter at the helm. I don't think I would say the same with Nassib.
RE: RE: Connor's reports  
ImaGiant86 : 8/29/2014 9:50 am : link
In comment 11831082 nicky43 said:
Quote:
In comment 11831059 dep026 said:


Quote:


are as bad as the jokes he makes on his in-game tweets.

Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.

I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.



I think Connor's assessment of Eli was on the money when taken in the context it was written which was an evaluation of Eli based on his performance in ALL 5 pre-season games not just for last night.

That said, I blame Eli's poor performance totally on Jerry Reece who completely screwed up and neglected our o-Line and then again gambled this year after knowing how weak it was last year.


You put a lot of blame on a man who's name you can't spell correctly.

No one person deserves the bulk of the blame, it's shared throughout the entire organization--top to bottom.
I've never seen so much made out of 8 offensive snaps.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/29/2014 9:53 am : link
.
For those that didn't see the game  
mikeinbloomfield : 8/29/2014 9:56 am : link
Here is my take on all of Eli's throws, from memory. I was at the game, sitting in the end zone that Eli was moving toward.

Third and short: Eli rolls out to right, feeling pressure, fires a strike to Randle. Randle drops it.

Third and short: Eli puts a screen pass right on the TE, TE is immediately hit, gains no yardage.

Third and medium(?) Randle has 1-on-1 coverage on the outside, Eli throws the ball as if Randle is going to keep going up the sideline, Randle pulls up.

Third and medium (?) Eli misses Cruz on a crossing pattern. A tight window and not the worst throw in the world, but no chance for success the way that Eli throws it.

So, while I'd agree with the idea that the passing game is a mess, I would argue that only the last one could be pinned on Eli. The completion that gained no yardage was a good play by the Pats LB, but you've got to expect an NFL TE to get a yard there.

I was half hoping Coughlin would let the 1s out there for one more drive.

Is Randle an idiot? After a month of practice, how is he still so far off what Eli is thinking?
I think ESPN  
dep026 : 8/29/2014 9:57 am : link
has really set the barrier for reporters these days. Shocke and awe reactions = good. In-depth analysis = boring.

RE: As for Washington  
nicky43 : 8/29/2014 10:00 am : link
In comment 11831086 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I don't think anyone should be able to confidently say he is better than anyone, as he has done everything against 3rd stringers. That said, I do agree that last night in particular, he should have been getting snaps with the 1st and 2nd team. I say this not because he deserves it. Rather, to see if he deserves it. With Beckham still out, they basically have a scrambled depth chart after Randle and Cruz. It would be nice to know what Washington and Parker could do against better talent. That said, last night probably wouldn't have been a big test given most of NEs starters didn't play.


I think that was the point Connor was making (let's see Washington play with the 2s so, as you said, we can see how good he really may be). I confidently say he's better than Randle, right or wrong, because I'm sick of Randle's inconsistency. I'd prefer to not see him on the field anymore while Washington catches everything thrown his way.
I'm not really sure why Eli gets Connor's venom  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/29/2014 10:01 am : link
Randle is responsible for two of the 3 passes he threw being incomplete.

The one completion would've been a first down if Kellen Davis wasn't garbage.

And a missed connection to Cruz.

Hammer  
Matt M. : 8/29/2014 10:02 am : link
I agree. Even the 5 games as a whole, the offense wasn't on the field for the equivalent of one full game. Throw in a first time play caller and a different OL each week, and I think this offense is probably not what we will see for most of the season. I hope the optimist in me is correct.

I also look at what snaps the starting offense did take and see how they tried to force specific types of plays (i.e. certain formations and routes). I expect much more variety, creativity, and fluidity in the regular season. It may not be all roses to start, but there is enough talent there to be a good offense. To that end, I think the effectiveness of the running game is being too easily glossed over. We may actually, for the first time in a few years, have a running game that can set the tone and set up the pass.
Hammer  
Matt M. : 8/29/2014 10:06 am : link
The two to Randle I agree about. The one to Cruz, I'm not sure if was a poor choice or just thrown too early. The timing seemed off, but it also seemed like the DB was closing underneath, so a slightly later throw as Banks was calling for, may have still resulted in an INC or INT. I didn't notice the other options available. I think this was just an example of them purposely trying to force a specific play, given it is still the preseason.

The throw to Davis, I think is fair to pin most of the blame on Davis for not getting a deeper push before cutting outside. However, I think a seasoned QB should also see that the route was too shallow. That said, it is also reasonable to expect a big TE like Davis to be able to pick up 2 yards with a small DB as the only defender near him.
I take a TE vs a DB matchup all day  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/29/2014 10:11 am : link
the route may've been a yard or two shallow, but he's got to turn the corner and win a one on one contest. I didn't see any fight in the play, didn't seem to be any attempt to outmuscle the guy or make anything happen, and Davis had the head of steam.
Hammer  
Matt M. : 8/29/2014 10:12 am : link
I agree. I mean, even just falling forward he should have been close to a first down.
meh  
Dodge : 8/29/2014 10:16 am : link
This article, and many others by Connor, are horribly written. Can we stop with this stupid jokes, the douchebag comments and all the rest?

Can we just concentrate of breakdowns and review? I don't care if you're negative about a player, but I don't know why we need to write like a high school student. Do YOU think you need to capitalize for emphasis? Do you NEED to write like this? Can you BE any worse?

Lets stick to breaking down the game and stop trying to be Adam Schein.
I know this is against the group thought process  
The Turk : 8/29/2014 10:24 am : link
but I really believe we haven't seen the offense at all yet. Now whether that is because of injuries or installation or because they don't want anything on tape, I think what we'll see on Monday is very different than what we've seen to date. Now does that mean that Randle will miraculously learn where to be? NO. Does that mean the line will give Eli time? NO. Does that mean that Beckham will come in and light it up off of no training camp? Of course not. But I believe the play calling and the plays will be very different than what we have seen, at least in the passing game.

Did Chip Kelly (and I am not suggesting that the Giants offense will be where the Eagles was last year) show his offense in the pre-season games? NO. But in the opener against Washington he put up 35 points in a half, with his two tackles wide and run/pass options.

That is why I believe that we haven't even seen the offense yet so it is hard to draw conclusions from these pre-season games.
RE: I'm not really sure why Eli gets Connor's venom  
okiegiant : 8/29/2014 10:25 am : link
In comment 11831169 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Randle is responsible for two of the 3 passes he threw being incomplete.

The one completion would've been a first down if Kellen Davis wasn't garbage.

And a missed connection to Cruz.


Peer pressure? He wants to be accepted as an actual beat writer and fit in so instead of providing good analysis he joins the crowd and throws out snarky tweets.

Don't know if any of what I typed is true but I do wonder why the writers seem to think it's par for the course to pile on Manning.
No, it's pretty common to just play vanilla offense in preseason  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/29/2014 10:25 am : link
but what's concerning is that they don't do that well.
RE: As for Washington  
Randy in CT : 8/29/2014 10:34 am : link
In comment 11831086 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I don't think anyone should be able to confidently say he is better than anyone, as he has done everything against 3rd stringers. That said, I do agree that last night in particular, he should have been getting snaps with the 1st and 2nd team. I say this not because he deserves it. Rather, to see if he deserves it. With Beckham still out, they basically have a scrambled depth chart after Randle and Cruz. It would be nice to know what Washington and Parker could do against better talent. That said, last night probably wouldn't have been a big test given most of NEs starters didn't play.
Nonsense. he hasn't payed just against 3rd stringers and he has made plays in camp and practices against Prince and DRC among others. the guy is for real and we hit big with him. I see him starting in 3 or 4 WR sets depending on who is available..
RE: Richburg in particular  
Victor in CT : 8/29/2014 10:45 am : link
In comment 11831080 Matt M. said:
Quote:
was singled out several times by Banks in the broadcast for excellent blocks in the running game. I focused on him a lot more than Jerry as well.


They should move him to C now. He is the present AND future.
RE: RE: Richburg in particular  
okiegiant : 8/29/2014 10:48 am : link
In comment 11831266 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 11831080 Matt M. said:


Quote:


was singled out several times by Banks in the broadcast for excellent blocks in the running game. I focused on him a lot more than Jerry as well.



They should move him to C now. He is the present AND future.


And if he moves to center who plays guard? And do you really want to shuffle the line again? Leave the line alone for now and lets see if they can get better with the additional time together.
RE: RE: Richburg in particular  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/29/2014 10:54 am : link
In comment 11831266 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 11831080 Matt M. said:


Quote:


was singled out several times by Banks in the broadcast for excellent blocks in the running game. I focused on him a lot more than Jerry as well.



They should move him to C now. He is the present AND future.


And who plays guard? Walton can't. Just leave it alone. Richburg has played Center for years. When it's time for him to take over, he will.
I have been critical of Eli the past two seasons  
UberAlias : 8/29/2014 10:55 am : link
But much of this preseason, and the final two games in particular, were not on him. He needs to be perfect to even come off looking respectable.
I agree Connor's analysis  
JCin332 : 8/29/2014 11:01 am : link
of Eli could come from any over-reactive BBI'er..
I see  
BurlyMan : 8/29/2014 11:02 am : link
ALL CAPS, axe-grinding, and second guessing the coaches.
I wish Connor  
BurlyMan : 8/29/2014 11:05 am : link
would use the access for sharper observations, not a platform for his opinions. This sky-is-falling shit is old and it's not even game one.
RE: RE: RE: Richburg in particular  
Victor in CT : 8/29/2014 11:06 am : link
In comment 11831292 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 11831266 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 11831080 Matt M. said:


Quote:


was singled out several times by Banks in the broadcast for excellent blocks in the running game. I focused on him a lot more than Jerry as well.



They should move him to C now. He is the present AND future.



And who plays guard? Walton can't. Just leave it alone. Richburg has played Center for years. When it's time for him to take over, he will.


You said it in your other post: John Jerry looks good at RG. Leave him there, move Moseley back to LG, then Schwartz when he comes back. C is more important than G, and Walton has not been impressive.
Hey Guys...  
M.S. : 8/29/2014 11:11 am : link
...this team isn't deep enough in talent to really worry about who gets cut.

Trust me -- the other NFL teams are not licking their chops waiting for the Giants waiver list to hit the wires.

The only salivating that's going on right now is thinking about Eli dropping back for a pass behind this offensive line.

Now there's some red meat for you.
Even more ugly...  
WideRight : 8/29/2014 11:16 am : link
Connor's write-ups (and the Giants play) are virtually unchanged through the preseason. The only Giant to make significant improvement through the preseason is Nassib, and he won't play when it counts
Victor  
Matt M. : 8/29/2014 11:17 am : link
A line with Richburg at one OG, Walton at OC, and Jerry at the other OG is likely better than one with Richburg at OC and Mosely at OG.
RE: Even more ugly...  
Dodge : 8/29/2014 11:21 am : link
In comment 11831351 WideRight said:
Quote:
Connor's write-ups (and the Giants play) are virtually unchanged through the preseason. The only Giant to make significant improvement through the preseason is Nassib, and he won't play when it counts


There are plenty of things to point out where you've seen significant improvement: Moore, Jennings, Pugh, Kennard, McClain, J.Williams.

Basically the whole defense has been playing really well. The Oline is improving I think. We should go with the Beatty-Richburg-Walton-Jerry-Pugh combo. Was our best one yet.
I haven't seen any preseason games but are the WR's getting open??  
Rick in Dallas : 8/29/2014 11:33 am : link
Our offense is a mess except for the RB's from the reports I read on BBI. OL,TE's,WR's and our franchise QB not looking they are ready for the regular season.We are in a big rebuilding period if all the reports I have been reading are correct.I'm normally an optimist but really worried about this year.
The article title is  
SwirlingEddie : 8/29/2014 11:35 am : link
Quick Hits and Tidbits, is it not? This suggests the article would contain quick, initial impressions, not in-depth analysis.

One may crave more professional, deeper analysis of the Giants, but this article wasn't the proper place to expect it and Connor shouldn't be chastised for not providing it in this particular piece.
i'm getting  
sshin05 : 8/29/2014 11:40 am : link
really worried with Eli and the receivers. They should have some completed passes but they seem to have a tough time in this offense.
RE: I haven't seen any preseason games but are the WR's getting open??  
UberAlias : 8/29/2014 11:48 am : link
In comment 11831396 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Our offense is a mess except for the RB's from the reports I read on BBI. OL,TE's,WR's and our franchise QB not looking they are ready for the regular season.We are in a big rebuilding period if all the reports I have been reading are correct.I'm normally an optimist but really worried about this year.


Little separation. No easy throws for Eli and some catchable balls they aren't coming up with.
I realize that Walton has not played in 2 years and that  
Bobby Epps : 8/29/2014 12:06 pm : link
possibly is why he doesn't look so good- has trouble with strong DTs just throwing him around and he doesn't get much push on running plays. So, either we stay with him at C and hope that some of the rust wears off or we come up with a different OL combo.

Jerry looks good at RG and Richburg whenever he plays at C.

I wonder, therefore, how an OL of Beatty-Reynolds-Richburg-Jerry-Pugh would look.
If this offense still has issues at halftime next Monday  
BlueHurricane : 8/29/2014 12:20 pm : link
I will begin to worry. As TC said in his post game presser last night....... We have had really ugly preseasons on offense in the past and have been fine once the real bullets start flying. My only concern is lack of a true #1 receiver.

You have to know it looks like we will be able to run the ball. That is something we could not do at all last year. That should open things up for the pass game.

It's time!!!!!!!!!!
RE: Connor's reports  
Connor_Hughes : 8/29/2014 1:33 pm : link
In comment 11831059 dep026 said:
Quote:
are as bad as the jokes he makes on his in-game tweets.

Again, his assessment of QB play is incomplete because there is 0 in-depth analysis. You read that Eli was a dud because of 4 pass plays... 1 which was a drop and another there where there was a good chance Randle fucked up again.

I rather read a game report from Eric or Joey because at least they re-watch the game and give analysis on why something happened. Connor to me, seems nothing like a glorified BBI'er.


I appreciate your criticism. Unfortunately, when at the physical games, I cannot re-watch plays or use instant replay. Much of the analysis and opinion I am forced to put together are based off viewing a play once. Thus, these reports (quick hits and tidbits) are mean to be the initial/immediate reaction.

Please, view our game reviews which run 2-4 days after the game is played. This is the insight I am able to gather following an intensive film session. I dedicated two-to-three hours each game to watch the film and give you, the fans, as much insight as possible.

When I was brought on by BBI, it was not as fan. If you want things sugar coated, you aren't going to like my reading. I'm not a fan of the team, I'm an analysis. I want to put it like it is. I'm sorry if that has rubbed you the wrong way, but that is my intention.

The way I view it, you will gain much more from my writing if I write as an analysis and put things as they are. Would you rather me shine something that's a dud?

I have been very up front with everyone that if you wish to contact me with any question/comment/concern, please shoot me an email. I do my best to answer at a timely fashion: connor_hughes@bigblueinteractive.com

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