Should look to redo his scouting organization or he will soon be looking for another job. His drafts except for his first one have been bad to awful. I don't know what he could have been looking at selecting players like Hosley,Jernigan,Beckham and Barden all in the third round?
RE: Curious how the rest of the NFC East has drafted from
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Should look to redo his scouting organization or he will soon be looking for another job. His drafts except for his first one have been bad to awful. I don't know what he could have been looking at selecting players like Hosley,Jernigan,Beckham and Barden all in the third round?
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Go ahead and post the drafts of our division rivals for 08-12 if you'd like.
That doesn't have anything to do with the Giants drafts, which is what this thread is about.
Minus disclaimers, do you feel the Giants have had good overall drafts from 2008-2012? (too early to grade 13-14, although 13 looks good IMO).
there are a ton of reasons why a draft pick might not pan out that have nothing to do with scouting. There are a myriad of factors that have to align to have a successful nfl career, including scheme, coaching, locker room, personal life, health, etc etc etc
2-3 major contributors in a draft, you've done well. 2008 was a solid draft. And even at his worse, Reese has always been able to find a couple starters per draft. Finally, his last two drafts appear to have been excellent.
Ross should be fired based. Its hard to argue we couldn't find someone else who could get the same results if not better. I don't think its coincidence that the drafts started to stink once Reese moved up and Ross took his position.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Curious how the rest of the NFC East has drafted from
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Go ahead and post the drafts of our division rivals for 08-12 if you'd like.
That doesn't have anything to do with the Giants drafts, which is what this thread is about.
Minus disclaimers, do you feel the Giants have had good overall drafts from 2008-2012? (too early to grade 13-14, although 13 looks good IMO).
Not the best, not the worst..Have to include disclaimers because of those whose injuries curtailed or ruined their careers..Sintim(Kirwan was VERY high on him), Steve Smith, Terrell Thomas, Manningham, Wilson, Goff, etc., even if they left via FA, they might have continued to do well save for their injuries..I would have kept Austin one more year(and said so), but I'm just a fan and not a qualified evaluator
Imo the quality of our drafts have gone to crap since Ross
This has been disgussed over and over all offseason. I'm sort of hoping now that the season is upon us we can talk about the football season and move past complaints about the draft.
Wilson never should have been drafted in the 1st round. He was not a halfback. He was simply a fast straight ahead runner. He couldn't read the line of scrimmage and quickly change direction if the hole wasn't there. Compare him with Tiki or even with the two halfbacks the Giants now have. Nothing wrong with taking Wilson at 4 or maybe even 3, but 1st was a mistake.
Mara doesn't run college scouting. Marc Ross does. Chris Mara's exact job has never really been defined publicly as far as I know.
Chris Mara runs the scouting department and has since 2011. Ross was given a new title. Ross runs the draft board. C. Mara and Coughlin sit next to Reese in the draft room.
RE: RE: RE: Curious how the rest of the NFC East has drafted from
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Setting the bar rather low when you want to compare our draft to what is widely considered the worst division in the entire NFL.
All seven picks from last year are currently on the team.In comment 11833119 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Should look to redo his scouting organization or he will soon be looking for another job. His drafts except for his first one have been bad to awful. I don't know what he could have been looking at selecting players like Hosley,Jernigan,Beckham and Barden all in the third round?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Curious how the rest of the NFC East has drafted from
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Go ahead and post the drafts of our division rivals for 08-12 if you'd like.
That doesn't have anything to do with the Giants drafts, which is what this thread is about.
Minus disclaimers, do you feel the Giants have had good overall drafts from 2008-2012? (too early to grade 13-14, although 13 looks good IMO).
Not the best, not the worst..Have to include disclaimers because of those whose injuries curtailed or ruined their careers..Sintim(Kirwan was VERY high on him), Steve Smith, Terrell Thomas, Manningham, Wilson, Goff, etc., even if they left via FA, they might have continued to do well save for their injuries..I would have kept Austin one more year(and said so), but I'm just a fan and not a qualified evaluator
So you rank the Giants drafts in that 5 year period as somewhere in the middle 30 teams of the NFL.
Got it.
As far as the players mentioned, Smith wasn't drafted during that time frame. Sintim was an awful fit from day 1. Thomas was a good pick and an unfortunate blow. Manningham was a very good pick for us considering the value. Goff? Really? And Wilson was bad luck but who knows what he was going to become.
Already explained that above..As long as there is Reese bashing going on, I'm going to ask for comparisons with other teams. I merely started with our division..
No one really cares about other teams' drafts per se. But in context as to how it applies to our awful GM, I'm gonna ask and keep asking..
Unless randle and Mosley and Kuhn develop this year.
2010 draft was anything but bad. We landed two DL starters that had a huge impact on a Super Bowl team. That's a good draft. 2009 got us nicks who had a historic postseason -- even if Beatty flames out I wouldn't call that draft a bust.
2 good starters is what makes a draft successful. Compare the NYG drafts to other teams, not to the 2007 draft---That rarely happens.
There are other ways to put the roster together. What is fair is to look at the personnel on the 53 compared to the rest of the league.
As I said somewhere above, NO ONE has done better than us since 2007 in the area that counts the most(to this fan) and that is in championships..So our 53 has done pretty damn well since 2007 imv
I'm one of those who didn't like taking a RB like Wilson with the first round. But, Wilson checked out medically and in his 2nd year suffered a career ending injury. How the hell can you evaluate a draft class with the 1st pick (last pick of the round also) having no career because of injury. Are you going to knock Reese for drafting someone who never played a minute because of the car accident?
RE: RE: RE: Curious how the rest of the NFC East has drafted from
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Actually he goes suck. His cap management has been atrocious. His attention to the OL and his contracts to guys like Baas and Beatty are bad and cap killers. So he's not as bad as Jerry Jones at cap management? But rather than lookay the job he's done we get well other GMs have met done much better.
The NFL is based upon getting a true franchise QB and doing your best to surround him w talent and manage the cap.
Well Acorsi was the one who got the QB. Reese had one great draft and has been abysmal at cap management. That other GMs make mistakes is not the reason to give a guy a career hall pass.
Passing on guys like Unger for Sintim and Cordy Glenn tell me Reese isn't a good GM. You have a pretty immobile QB and you spend premium pick after pick on guys who dont work out and short shrift the OL until it's arguably one of the worst in the whole NFL. You hang onto picks because you were wrong.
No thanks. Reese's fingerprints are all over what's wrong w the current roster. But give him his due. The Giants don't care how bad he does. He won't be fired.
There are other ways to put the roster together. What is fair is to look at the personnel on the 53 compared to the rest of the league.
BB56, you are the best fan this team has. This franchise has never done anything wrong. Ever.
As I said somewhere above, NO ONE has done better than us since 2007 in the area that counts the most(to this fan) and that is in championships..So our 53 has done pretty damn well since 2007 imv
BB56, you are the best fan this team has. This franchise has never
onto guys we drafted that you know will never pan out. Right now, Reese is clinging onto the JPP of tight ends. He should have been cut. He's oft injured and when he isn't, he hasn't excelled at blocking or route running.
To be fair, even though it's early, it looks like Reese did a lot better in the 2013 & 2014 drafts.
and if you look at 03-07 drafts, they are not much different than 08-12. 07 was a homerun that lead to a SB. 10 lead to another SB, No JPP, no SB. How one can categorize drafts as so bad in 08, 09 ,10 and 11, is puzzling. No way we win another SB if they we that poor. Also, they were drafting near the end of each round during those drafts. The last two years in the top 19, and they look good - coincidence?
I'm not willing just yet to kill Reese for that draft class
Out of all of the picks I'd say that Hosely was the only clear miss. Randle hasn't been on the field enough behind Cruz and Nicks to give a full assessment. He'll get his chance this year as a starter. Kuhn and Mosely were late round picks - the fact that they're still on the roster is a mini-success. They'll both also get more substantial opportunities. The rest of those drafted players have yet to produce due to various injuries.
Bottom line is that with the exception of David Wilson, each one of those players are still on the roster and will be used in a greater capacity this season. Might be a year too early to definitively make a judgment on how well the Giants evaluated the talent there.
McCants was definitely a miss - but again, there's very little expectation when it comes to most of these 6th and 7th round picks. Mosley certainly should have stepped up by now, and I think he will once he comes back from injury.
Morris Claiborne. Active (4 0f 50 Wonderlic)
Tyrone Crawford. Active. Missed last season.
Kyle Wilber. Active. Had strong late season last year.
Matt Johnson. Waived after never having played a down.
Danny Coale. Waived by Cowboys, Colts, and Steelers.
James Hanna. Active. Had lowest 40 among all TEs at Combine.
Caleb McSurdy. Waived by Cowboys, Browns, and Rams.
That's 4 out of 7 still active from the 2012 draft. Once could argue that outside of Claibore, and maybe Wilber, the talent just isn't there.
Morris Claiborne. Active (4 0f 50 Wonderlic)
Tyrone Crawford. Active. Missed last season.
Kyle Wilber. Active. Had strong late season last year.
Matt Johnson. Waived after never having played a down.
Danny Coale. Waived by Cowboys, Colts, and Steelers.
James Hanna. Active. Had lowest 40 among all TEs at Combine.
Caleb McSurdy. Waived by Cowboys, Browns, and Rams.
That's 4 out of 7 still active from the 2012 draft. Once could argue that outside of Claibore, and maybe Wilber, the talent just isn't there.
Im afraid to look at those, honestly
Sincerely,
Matt McCants
Point?
Quote:
2008 onward
Point?
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Chris Mara runs the scouting department.
Quote:
In comment 11833111 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
2008 onward
Point?
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Go ahead and post the drafts of our division rivals for 08-12 if you'd like.
That doesn't have anything to do with the Giants drafts, which is what this thread is about.
Minus disclaimers, do you feel the Giants have had good overall drafts from 2008-2012? (too early to grade 13-14, although 13 looks good IMO).
Quote:
In comment 11833124 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 11833111 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
2008 onward
Point?
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Go ahead and post the drafts of our division rivals for 08-12 if you'd like.
That doesn't have anything to do with the Giants drafts, which is what this thread is about.
Minus disclaimers, do you feel the Giants have had good overall drafts from 2008-2012? (too early to grade 13-14, although 13 looks good IMO).
Not the best, not the worst..Have to include disclaimers because of those whose injuries curtailed or ruined their careers..Sintim(Kirwan was VERY high on him), Steve Smith, Terrell Thomas, Manningham, Wilson, Goff, etc., even if they left via FA, they might have continued to do well save for their injuries..I would have kept Austin one more year(and said so), but I'm just a fan and not a qualified evaluator
Chris Mara runs the scouting department and has since 2011. Ross was given a new title. Ross runs the draft board. C. Mara and Coughlin sit next to Reese in the draft room.
Quote:
In comment 11833111 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
2008 onward
Point?
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Setting the bar rather low when you want to compare our draft to what is widely considered the worst division in the entire NFL.
Quote:
In comment 11833161 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 11833124 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 11833111 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
2008 onward
Point?
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Go ahead and post the drafts of our division rivals for 08-12 if you'd like.
That doesn't have anything to do with the Giants drafts, which is what this thread is about.
Minus disclaimers, do you feel the Giants have had good overall drafts from 2008-2012? (too early to grade 13-14, although 13 looks good IMO).
Not the best, not the worst..Have to include disclaimers because of those whose injuries curtailed or ruined their careers..Sintim(Kirwan was VERY high on him), Steve Smith, Terrell Thomas, Manningham, Wilson, Goff, etc., even if they left via FA, they might have continued to do well save for their injuries..I would have kept Austin one more year(and said so), but I'm just a fan and not a qualified evaluator
So you rank the Giants drafts in that 5 year period as somewhere in the middle 30 teams of the NFL.
Got it.
As far as the players mentioned, Smith wasn't drafted during that time frame. Sintim was an awful fit from day 1. Thomas was a good pick and an unfortunate blow. Manningham was a very good pick for us considering the value. Goff? Really? And Wilson was bad luck but who knows what he was going to become.
Do we care how the Giants draft?
Do we care how the Giants draft?
Already explained that above..As long as there is Reese bashing going on, I'm going to ask for comparisons with other teams. I merely started with our division..
No one really cares about other teams' drafts per se. But in context as to how it applies to our awful GM, I'm gonna ask and keep asking..
2010 draft was anything but bad. We landed two DL starters that had a huge impact on a Super Bowl team. That's a good draft. 2009 got us nicks who had a historic postseason -- even if Beatty flames out I wouldn't call that draft a bust.
2 good starters is what makes a draft successful. Compare the NYG drafts to other teams, not to the 2007 draft---That rarely happens.
As I said somewhere above, NO ONE has done better than us since 2007 in the area that counts the most(to this fan) and that is in championships..So our 53 has done pretty damn well since 2007 imv
Quote:
In comment 11833111 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
2008 onward
Point?
Simple. Implicit in many draft "bashing" threads is that Reese sucks and other teams GMs do better..Firstly Reese doesn't suck. He makes mistakes the same as Newsome and other respected GMs do..If I'm wrong, let's start with our division and see how they've fared relative to us
Actually he goes suck. His cap management has been atrocious. His attention to the OL and his contracts to guys like Baas and Beatty are bad and cap killers. So he's not as bad as Jerry Jones at cap management? But rather than lookay the job he's done we get well other GMs have met done much better.
The NFL is based upon getting a true franchise QB and doing your best to surround him w talent and manage the cap.
Well Acorsi was the one who got the QB. Reese had one great draft and has been abysmal at cap management. That other GMs make mistakes is not the reason to give a guy a career hall pass.
Passing on guys like Unger for Sintim and Cordy Glenn tell me Reese isn't a good GM. You have a pretty immobile QB and you spend premium pick after pick on guys who dont work out and short shrift the OL until it's arguably one of the worst in the whole NFL. You hang onto picks because you were wrong.
No thanks. Reese's fingerprints are all over what's wrong w the current roster. But give him his due. The Giants don't care how bad he does. He won't be fired.
Quote:
There are other ways to put the roster together. What is fair is to look at the personnel on the 53 compared to the rest of the league.
BB56, you are the best fan this team has. This franchise has never done anything wrong. Ever.
As I said somewhere above, NO ONE has done better than us since 2007 in the area that counts the most(to this fan) and that is in championships..So our 53 has done pretty damn well since 2007 imv
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/draft.htm
According to this site, the best pick by Reese has been Nicks (36), Bradshaw (37), JPP (28), Beatty (24)
To be fair, even though it's early, it looks like Reese did a lot better in the 2013 & 2014 drafts.
Bottom line is that with the exception of David Wilson, each one of those players are still on the roster and will be used in a greater capacity this season. Might be a year too early to definitively make a judgment on how well the Giants evaluated the talent there.
Tyrone Crawford. Active. Missed last season.
Kyle Wilber. Active. Had strong late season last year.
Matt Johnson. Waived after never having played a down.
Danny Coale. Waived by Cowboys, Colts, and Steelers.
James Hanna. Active. Had lowest 40 among all TEs at Combine.
Caleb McSurdy. Waived by Cowboys, Browns, and Rams.
That's 4 out of 7 still active from the 2012 draft. Once could argue that outside of Claibore, and maybe Wilber, the talent just isn't there.
As a point of comparison.
Tyrone Crawford. Active. Missed last season.
Kyle Wilber. Active. Had strong late season last year.
Matt Johnson. Waived after never having played a down.
Danny Coale. Waived by Cowboys, Colts, and Steelers.
James Hanna. Active. Had lowest 40 among all TEs at Combine.
Caleb McSurdy. Waived by Cowboys, Browns, and Rams.
That's 4 out of 7 still active from the 2012 draft. Once could argue that outside of Claibore, and maybe Wilber, the talent just isn't there.
As a point of comparison.
yeah, but Jerruh is a moron and Reese is a genius
that's borderline turnover/closer to rebuilding.
and it's not going well.