Have also had to replace good players/draft picks like terrell thomas, kp, steve smith, chad jones, and now david wilson because of career altering injuries.
Hakeem Nicks was a great pick but his body didnt hold up. Same appears to be going on with JPP.
Its not just bad drafting. There has been some bad luck
years average age indicted the Giants average age was 27.2 so I guess they are headed in the right direction provided some of the younger players on the team pan out.
he blew a whole list of drafts, and it showed up last year finally. going to take time to fix this mess
Hope Reese is up to it, and our Scouting Group needs to be closely scrutinized by management. Injury aside, picking Wilson was a terrible pick at #1 , we needed Linemen badly and we picked a RB too high Running backs are a dime a dozen high picks are for OL, CB, QB, WR
Reese fell into a pattern, since reversed, at least in 2014, that he was going to prove he was smarter then the rest of the league and try to find a JPP every year. This backfired on him. seems he has now gotten on track, and we need more drafts like 2014 to get the ship righted
Jim Fassel routinely would have the youngest roster in the NFL in his first few seasons. It worked in 1997 (until the youngest team in the NFL showed their inexperience and fell apart in the Wild Card against Minnesota). They had the same in 1998 and I think in 1999 as well. It wasn't until 2000 that the Giants started to put together the formula of signing free agent veterans on short deals to fill out holes in the roster rather than either spend big on a name or throw in a young guy not yet ready (hence signing Glenn Parker, Lomas Brown, Dave Thomas, etc). That formula would actually set part of the blueprint that the Patriots would adopt and help begin their dynasty.
Complaining about poor drafting over and over. I get it. Bad drafts. I don't come here nearly as much as I used to. You wait all year for the football season to arrive and now it's finally here and over half the posters want to complaing about the draft over and over again. This place is depressing.
Bingo! Hillis and Patterson made this roster. I don't know what else really needs to be discuss relating to this point. Hell if Snee or DD didn't retire, they would be on the roster. Other than calling TC a stubborn old man what really is the point?
Are we now going to discuss the age gaps between Giants coaching staff and those around the league?
thought there are an article or something a couple of years ago that said that Reese makes the decisions, and Coughlin breaks the news to the terminated players.
thought there are an article or something a couple of years ago that said that Reese makes the decisions, and Coughlin breaks the news to the terminated players.
but in looking at this team by position, I don't see where they are old (I'm not disputing the facts, just that I don't think it's as bad as it sounds)
Jim Fassel routinely would have the youngest roster in the NFL in his first few seasons. It worked in 1997 (until the youngest team in the NFL showed their inexperience and fell apart in the Wild Card against Minnesota). They had the same in 1998 and I think in 1999 as well. It wasn't until 2000 that the Giants started to put together the formula of signing free agent veterans on short deals to fill out holes in the roster rather than either spend big on a name or throw in a young guy not yet ready (hence signing Glenn Parker, Lomas Brown, Dave Thomas, etc). That formula would actually set part of the blueprint that the Patriots would adopt and help begin their dynasty.
Definitely. Would the Giants be the oldest team in the league if Diehl and Snee were still active?
With all the roster turnover, hopefully if one guy is dogging it Â
TC or the coordinators will be a little more free in subbing/benching. There are no more favored starters getting team love (well, maybe one) so hopefully we see more effective players on the field.
The question last season was why'd it take so long to get JJ on the field. I really hope we don't need to ask those questions this season.
I dont thonk people realize just how poor recent drafts have been. Â
good when the current roster looks like complete garbage and also is old.
Might be a long rebuild if we have a bad year this year
I just don't see long rebuilds in the NFL. The Chiefs went from 2-14 to a 9-0 start last year. The Eagles were a train wreck in 2012 & won the NFC East the next year. The Giants may be bad this year, but it can be turned around pretty quickly with some smart moves.
RE: I dont thonk people realize just how poor recent drafts have been. Â
Over the last 5 years Reese and Co have had 38 picks. 17 are out of the league. That's 45% and near the bottom of the league.
And out of those 17 guys who are no longer in the league, how many of them were high draft picks made by the Giants (taken in the 4th round or earlier)? And out of those guys, how many of them sustained substantial injuries that left them unavailable to play for a significant time during their first years with the Giants?
If you consider those two things then I would say, even with going back a year further to '08, that only Bryan Kehl, Ramses Barden, Phillip Dillard were the only clear-cut misses from a talent-evaluation standpoint in the draft. There's probably a handful more guys that are debatable, but I'd say either way that would compare favorably for Reese to most of the other GM's in the NFL.
There's definitely other factors involved including the inability for many of these drafted players to remain healthy, and that opportunities to perform were limited behind veteran players (in many cases championship pedigree players) who Coughlin always had a preference for in his lineups. The drafts have been undoubtedly disappointing over time, but I don't believe it has as much to do with poor player evaluation by the GM as many here tend to suggest.
Kevin Boss suffered about 30 concussions at a young age.
Gibril Wilson was never the same after his neck injury.
They've made some mistakes picking player, as all teams have, but that sexy stat of the number of picks not currently in the league doesn't take into account or tell you the reason why.
The Giants aren't the only team that has lost players due to injury. It happens. It's football.
What are we talking about here? These are guys that lost their careers early. If you want to have a discussion about why the GM's picks aren't in the league, then dismissing context is silly.
have lost players early due to injury. It's not just the Giants. All of that is taken into consideration with the all of the teams, and even still, the Giants are at the bottom the league, injuries or not.
have lost players early due to injury. It's not just the Giants. All of that is taken into consideration with the all of the teams, and even still, the Giants are at the bottom the league, injuries or not.
All of that is taken into account? I certainly didn't see a link posted where those numbers are explained, or it's stated that it was taken into account.
have lost players early due to injury. It's not just the Giants. All of that is taken into consideration with the all of the teams, and even still, the Giants are at the bottom the league, injuries or not.
I doubt injuries are taken into consideration when any sports writer attempts to measure a team's drafting efficiency in comparison to the entire league. If I'm wrong about that I'd love to see it.
We wanted to build a younger team, a more physical football team and a team that plays fast,” General Manager Jerry Reese said. “Obviously, we had to turn the roster over a little bit to do that.”
that Eric has been letting Dan G. from ESPN use his log-in again because this looks like one of his half developed posts using stats that doesn't quite say what he thinks it does
& I'll live to 9075 give or take a year or 2 before you provide us with those comparative numbers/percentages to prove your point that every other GM has picked just as many or more players whose careers ended long before they should have due to injuries. I guarantee you couldn't name even ONE player drafted by another team whose career ended before he ever played a single snap with the team a la Chad Jones.
What, EXACTLY, is "near the bottom of the league?" 16th or closer to 29th or 30th? By not citing a source for those stats or giving a concrete # it sure as hell looks like the poster is just trying to slam Reese just for the hell of slamming him rather than presenting any evidence for it. Also, that IS a comparison, which some of the morons rail against, unless of course one seems to prove their point.
& I'll live to 9075 give or take a year or 2 before you provide us with those comparative numbers/percentages to prove your point that every other GM has picked just as many or more players whose careers ended long before they should have due to injuries. I guarantee you couldn't name even ONE player drafted by another team whose career ended before he ever played a single snap with the team a la Chad Jones.
What, EXACTLY, is "near the bottom of the league?" 16th or closer to 29th or 30th? By not citing a source for those stats or giving a concrete # it sure as hell looks like the poster is just trying to slam Reese just for the hell of slamming him rather than presenting any evidence for it. Also, that IS a comparison, which some of the morons rail against, unless of course one seems to prove their point.
All I read here all of the time is how people here think the Giants are the only team who suffer injuries. Now, all of a sudden, we aren't? Alrighty.
I would also like jrud to post the list, because it sounds interesting. Jrud's a good poster and has posted here for years and isn't someone I categorize as someone who would just bash Reese for the hell of it.
RE: Maybe jrud can post the link when he sees this. Â
The fact that the Giants are at the bottom of this list isn't surprising, though. Every team has injuries and loses players early.
Since you so firmly believe this over & over & over again every post, why not back up your obstinate idiocy with some facts to prove it? Afraid you'll be wrong for the 2 millionth post you've made?
It's not surprising because you're worse than the biggest shithead Eagles fan in hating everything about the Giants. Of course you're entitled to & to express that on this forum, but it's shitheads like you who make this forum extremely close to unreadable.
RE: RE: Maybe jrud can post the link when he sees this. Â
The fact that the Giants are at the bottom of this list isn't surprising, though. Every team has injuries and loses players early.
Since you so firmly believe this over & over & over again every post, why not back up your obstinate idiocy with some facts to prove it? Afraid you'll be wrong for the 2 millionth post you've made?
It's not surprising because you're worse than the biggest shithead Eagles fan in hating everything about the Giants. Of course you're entitled to & to express that on this forum, but it's shitheads like you who make this forum extremely close to unreadable.
LOL, yes, I hate the Giants. Been a fan of theirs since I was 7, but God damn, do I hate them. Just because someone doesn't lick the Giants and every employee of their's anus over and over again on here doesn't make one hate the Giants.
You seem mad.
I don't thnk it has that much to do with bad drafts. Â
When did the Giants attempt to draft replacements for Josh Brown, Eli Manning, Steve Weatherford and Zak DeOssie? Never.
You can say Cullen Jenkins was signed because Marvin Austin flopped, but Jenkins was a good signing who will give the Giants exactly what they brought him in for: two-three years of solid play. He'll probably be done at that point, but Austin could just as easily have left as a UFA in 2015, leaving the Giants no better off than they are with Jenkins, aside from maybe a day-three comp pick for losing Austin.
Will Beatty and Mathias Kiwanuka, two of the older Giants, are still here because the Giants - rightly or wrongly - regarded them as good picks when their rookie deals were up. Manning would have been gone long ago if he had been a bad pick. So it cuts both ways.
Years ago, you tried to get younger because players stayed, or were expected to stay, with the same team their entire career..
Hakeem Nicks was a great pick but his body didnt hold up. Same appears to be going on with JPP.
Its not just bad drafting. There has been some bad luck
It has no impact on the game with such little deviation from top to bottom.
Hope Reese is up to it, and our Scouting Group needs to be closely scrutinized by management. Injury aside, picking Wilson was a terrible pick at #1 , we needed Linemen badly and we picked a RB too high Running backs are a dime a dozen high picks are for OL, CB, QB, WR
Reese fell into a pattern, since reversed, at least in 2014, that he was going to prove he was smarter then the rest of the league and try to find a JPP every year. This backfired on him. seems he has now gotten on track, and we need more drafts like 2014 to get the ship righted
All 7 picks making the roster can mean 2 diametrically opposed things:
1. The GM is very good at his job
2. The team sucks
Bingo! Hillis and Patterson made this roster. I don't know what else really needs to be discuss relating to this point. Hell if Snee or DD didn't retire, they would be on the roster. Other than calling TC a stubborn old man what really is the point?
Are we now going to discuss the age gaps between Giants coaching staff and those around the league?
???? Is this a serious post/question?
Might be a long rebuild if we have a bad year this year
It tells us little, and most of what it does is rife for misinterpretation.
Excellent point (and guaranteed to be overlooked by the mob)
Position
Quarterback Running Backs Tight Ends Wide Receivers Offensive Linemen
28.5 26 26.6 24.1 26.7
DEFENSE
Position
Defensive Ends Defensive Tackles Linebackers Cornerbacks Safeties Specialists
Age 25.8 27.2 26.7 27.4 27.5 32
The one position where the Giants have youth is wide receiver.
Really? The one position? Because NFL careers are over at 26 or 26?
(lolz)
Suppose the first roster has 10 players at 25.
The average age is 25.
The second roster has 8 players at 25, but 2 vets, one at age 33 and one at age 35.
This roster has an average age of 26.8.
And yet, functionally, the rosters don't have the hints at one team being a shitty drafting one.
Definitely. Would the Giants be the oldest team in the league if Diehl and Snee were still active?
The question last season was why'd it take so long to get JJ on the field. I really hope we don't need to ask those questions this season.
Never mind the misses on guys still on the roster or on another team.
In the NFL, speed kills and we have none. Losing Beckham, David Wilson, Will Hill and Cooper Taylor hurts.
Might be a long rebuild if we have a bad year this year
I just don't see long rebuilds in the NFL. The Chiefs went from 2-14 to a 9-0 start last year. The Eagles were a train wreck in 2012 & won the NFC East the next year. The Giants may be bad this year, but it can be turned around pretty quickly with some smart moves.
This. But when someone brings it up, they're met with a response like "Yeah, well, how does that compare to the rest of the league!!"
Well, now we know.
And out of those 17 guys who are no longer in the league, how many of them were high draft picks made by the Giants (taken in the 4th round or earlier)? And out of those guys, how many of them sustained substantial injuries that left them unavailable to play for a significant time during their first years with the Giants?
If you consider those two things then I would say, even with going back a year further to '08, that only Bryan Kehl, Ramses Barden, Phillip Dillard were the only clear-cut misses from a talent-evaluation standpoint in the draft. There's probably a handful more guys that are debatable, but I'd say either way that would compare favorably for Reese to most of the other GM's in the NFL.
There's definitely other factors involved including the inability for many of these drafted players to remain healthy, and that opportunities to perform were limited behind veteran players (in many cases championship pedigree players) who Coughlin always had a preference for in his lineups. The drafts have been undoubtedly disappointing over time, but I don't believe it has as much to do with poor player evaluation by the GM as many here tend to suggest.
Or David Wilson's neck was ruined?
Or Steve Smith's knee imploded?
Or Kenny Phillips developed a bone on bone knee condition?
Or Hakeem Nicks just inexplicably stopped being a good player?
Or Terrell Thomas losing his ACLs again?
Or Jay Alford could never come back from his injuries?
Because the context of why those high picks are no longer here is kind of important and contributes to that statistic.
Andre Brown proved to be made of glass
Kevin Boss suffered about 30 concussions at a young age.
Gibril Wilson was never the same after his neck injury.
They've made some mistakes picking player, as all teams have, but that sexy stat of the number of picks not currently in the league doesn't take into account or tell you the reason why.
What are we talking about here? These are guys that lost their careers early. If you want to have a discussion about why the GM's picks aren't in the league, then dismissing context is silly.
All of that is taken into account? I certainly didn't see a link posted where those numbers are explained, or it's stated that it was taken into account.
I doubt injuries are taken into consideration when any sports writer attempts to measure a team's drafting efficiency in comparison to the entire league. If I'm wrong about that I'd love to see it.
& I'll live to 9075 give or take a year or 2 before you provide us with those comparative numbers/percentages to prove your point that every other GM has picked just as many or more players whose careers ended long before they should have due to injuries. I guarantee you couldn't name even ONE player drafted by another team whose career ended before he ever played a single snap with the team a la Chad Jones.
What, EXACTLY, is "near the bottom of the league?" 16th or closer to 29th or 30th? By not citing a source for those stats or giving a concrete # it sure as hell looks like the poster is just trying to slam Reese just for the hell of slamming him rather than presenting any evidence for it. Also, that IS a comparison, which some of the morons rail against, unless of course one seems to prove their point.
Quote:
I've read that here many, many times.
& I'll live to 9075 give or take a year or 2 before you provide us with those comparative numbers/percentages to prove your point that every other GM has picked just as many or more players whose careers ended long before they should have due to injuries. I guarantee you couldn't name even ONE player drafted by another team whose career ended before he ever played a single snap with the team a la Chad Jones.
What, EXACTLY, is "near the bottom of the league?" 16th or closer to 29th or 30th? By not citing a source for those stats or giving a concrete # it sure as hell looks like the poster is just trying to slam Reese just for the hell of slamming him rather than presenting any evidence for it. Also, that IS a comparison, which some of the morons rail against, unless of course one seems to prove their point.
All I read here all of the time is how people here think the Giants are the only team who suffer injuries. Now, all of a sudden, we aren't? Alrighty.
I would also like jrud to post the list, because it sounds interesting. Jrud's a good poster and has posted here for years and isn't someone I categorize as someone who would just bash Reese for the hell of it.
Since you so firmly believe this over & over & over again every post, why not back up your obstinate idiocy with some facts to prove it? Afraid you'll be wrong for the 2 millionth post you've made?
It's not surprising because you're worse than the biggest shithead Eagles fan in hating everything about the Giants. Of course you're entitled to & to express that on this forum, but it's shitheads like you who make this forum extremely close to unreadable.
Quote:
The fact that the Giants are at the bottom of this list isn't surprising, though. Every team has injuries and loses players early.
Since you so firmly believe this over & over & over again every post, why not back up your obstinate idiocy with some facts to prove it? Afraid you'll be wrong for the 2 millionth post you've made?
It's not surprising because you're worse than the biggest shithead Eagles fan in hating everything about the Giants. Of course you're entitled to & to express that on this forum, but it's shitheads like you who make this forum extremely close to unreadable.
LOL, yes, I hate the Giants. Been a fan of theirs since I was 7, but God damn, do I hate them. Just because someone doesn't lick the Giants and every employee of their's anus over and over again on here doesn't make one hate the Giants.
You seem mad.
You can say Cullen Jenkins was signed because Marvin Austin flopped, but Jenkins was a good signing who will give the Giants exactly what they brought him in for: two-three years of solid play. He'll probably be done at that point, but Austin could just as easily have left as a UFA in 2015, leaving the Giants no better off than they are with Jenkins, aside from maybe a day-three comp pick for losing Austin.
Will Beatty and Mathias Kiwanuka, two of the older Giants, are still here because the Giants - rightly or wrongly - regarded them as good picks when their rookie deals were up. Manning would have been gone long ago if he had been a bad pick. So it cuts both ways.