It’s not just those on Lagares’ team who feel this way. "I saw him last year, and he was impressive,” Braves manager Fredi Gonzalez said at Citi Field last week. “I said to my coaches, he might be the best center fielder in the National League. Now, a year later, there's no doubt about it.”
But are to we not trying to get a bat in the lineup? Is a poor defender in LF really going to kill us when we have the best CF in the game right next to him? And how sure are we his poor showing isn't a result of trying to come back from numerous injuries this year and last? He was playing CF at a pretty high level not that long ago. Not even saying I want him necessarily but he might be an easy add. Seems like Dodgers are willing eat a lot.
But you negate Lagares defense when you put the very worst OF in baseball next to him and it's not a 1-2 year "gamble" it's 5 more seasons you are stuck with him. You expect the mets to move on for the final 3 years if he's owed "only" 40 million during that time? No chance. Also no reason to believe an injury prone player is going to stay healthy at 31-35. Poor gamble 100%.
31-35 isn't that old. Seems a lot more reasonable than Tulo or signing a Hanley. How sure are we that he's absolutely the worst outfielder in baseball moving forward? Because of his injury riddled 2014? That doesn't seen like a lot substantial data? Probably had to adjust to a new position as well this year. It's fine if you disagree but I at least find it intriguing.
3 gma quoted by rosenthal and olney clearly agree he's in a free fall and not simply learning a "new" position. He's been absolutely awful out there, not "meh", he's 26 runs worse than the next guy. He's been Lucas duda bad. That's not explained by a move off of CF. He's not moving to a corner from ss. He's owed 114 million. If the dodgers are 40 the mets would still be paying him 70+ for 5 years so if 2014 is Matt Kemp it's an utter disaster
Cost move in terms of talent given up he might be an intriguing add. He's a couple years removed from being the best bat in the league. Granderson never was that kind of player.
Best young hotter still in the minors is also a 2b/3b in Seager and he's probably up next year if they have a need. Murphy might have value but that's not the team
You are praying that the last 2 seasons of Kemp isn't what you are getting.... For the next 5. If he is.. That's your core.. Wright, Granderson and Matt kemp with almost no room to maneuver given guys like duda being arbitration guys already and his like wheeler and Harvey going to get big arbitration numbers as well. 5 years should be given to no brainer or guys in their prime not "let's look past 1.5 years".
Mets need to stop with these reclaimation projects Â
instead of Murphy the team is taking a step backwards offensively. I can see him being there at some point, but just further out.
If ever a team needed to start off a season well it will be the Mets next season. Expectations will be so high with Harvey coming back and with all these past seasons of losing they can't afford to get off to a slow start and once again dig a hole for themselves. They don't have the luxury of trading their best hitter because they simply don't have enough other guys on their roster who can hit.
RE: Mets need to stop with these reclaimation projects Â
and go and get themselves a guy who for the next 4 years you can be pretty darn sure will have a 900+ ops.
Sure but where are you getting this imaginary player? I swear people views of the leage are warped. There's next to no options available in free agency, the trade options like Cargo all have serious injuries, risk. Bats have become a rarity and if a team is lucky enough to develop one they aren't getting rid of him. I want a 900 ops player too! Can I get a toilet made of solid gold with that as well.
I don't think the Mets go for Kemp unless there's a huge discount Â
and that's doubtful since he's had a good year at the plate. He's destined to go to an AL franchise willing to take a that big of a financial gamble (Sox or Yankees).
Biggest guys I could see the Mets going for include: Stanton - the 1 player I think Sandy would move heaven and earth for, if he hits the market. Always a long shot to get the best power hitter in the game when he's 24 years old. Castro - think the Mets probably like him a lot and Cubs would move him, but Theo will want Thor/Wheeler/JdG and I don't see Sandy doing that. CarGo - this seems doable considering his value is down and the Rockies should be looking to dump the contract (Thor off the table). Would think there's some kind of a package deal with non-premium assets (Gee/Murphy/Montero/Flores types) that could get it done.
RE: RE: Mets need to stop with these reclaimation projects Â
and go and get themselves a guy who for the next 4 years you can be pretty darn sure will have a 900+ ops.
Sure but where are you getting this imaginary player? I swear people views of the leage are warped. There's next to no options available in free agency, the trade options like Cargo all have serious injuries, risk. Bats have become a rarity and if a team is lucky enough to develop one they aren't getting rid of him. I want a 900 ops player too! Can I get a toilet made of solid gold with that as well.
The Mets have a deep farm system. They can compete for Stanton if he is made available.
Injury I just don't know anymore. The guy is an injured mess. Castro seems like a pretty poor defensive SS and Theo has told him they want to keep him. I just don't know. We may really just have to wait for Flores/Herrera/Reynolds/Tovar/Nimmo/Conforto to develop and hope our pitching carries us.
Even if all those guys develop (& are ready to contribute in...2017?) Â
By then the pitching will be getting expensive to keep, with many possibly already lost to FA.
The next 2 years the pitching projects to be excellent and cost effective. This is their time to make a move. Even if it's just overpaying for Hardy/Cuddyer types, the window is legitimately open for this team as long as Harvey comes back strong. Though obviously doing more than Cuddyer/Hardy would be better.
is the Cubs have plenty of money so I think people are a bit misguided when they suggest the Cubs have some desperate need to deal bats for arms. I believe they are going to be the team that signs Lester (possibly Shields) but Arrieta has been fantastic, Hendricks looks good, Edwards should help them at some point next year and yeah they could trade for some pitching, I just think they are in the drivers seat.
Castro is possibly the best fit out there for the Mets other than Stanton. You can nitpick and say he isn't a GG'er or true middle of the order guy, but the bottomline is he's a top 5 WAR SS every year, plays every game, he's young and has a great contract. They will not give that up unless they have the chance to get an equally rare commodity - which would be Thor or Wheeler.
suspect (like most) that the Mets engage the Cubs in SS trade talks but the price won't be low just because they have depth. Theo loves him some high upside/big name prospects and Sandy seemingly hates giving them up so it may be tough. For a Stanton it's an absolute no brainer however. Personally if I'm the Mets I'm dealing both Niese and Gee now if I get even "fair" offers.
Cuddyer/hardy and wait on Nimmo/Conforto. I agree the time to go for it is now. Who knows how long these pitchers will be healthy and together. The window isn't as large as people think. I just don't know of the right trade will be available.
I just don't see a lot of bats as realistic options. I think we'll be strong regardless. Guys like Lagares, TDA, Duda should continue to improve. Hopefully a guy like Herrera/Flores busts out. Hopefully Wright/Granderson rebound even a little. I'd also trade Neise/Gee/Colon/Murphy for whatever we can get. I don't think we will be a below .500 team next year based on our rotation/bullpen alone.
just don't want to hear "well it's Harvey's first year back" or "Herrera's first year" or "well Duda missed 40 games". No excuses, find a way to put a winning team on the field. If that's 83 wins so be it. 76-92 aint cutting it.
Cuddyer/hardy and wait on Nimmo/Conforto. I agree the time to go for it is now. Who knows how long these pitchers will be healthy and together. The window isn't as large as people think. I just don't know of the right trade will be available.
Hardy would be a good target in FA. Very good defensive SS (he's had a meaningfully positive UZR at shortstop in every season) with real pop in his bat. He's going to get more than the 3/22.25 deal he got from Baltimore last time around (talk about a good FA signing, he's been an absolute steal for Baltimore at that price), but plus defenders with power at up-the-middle positions don't grow on trees.
may get something very similar to the 4 for 53 Peralta got, see no reason for him to get less barring a QO, at which point he shouldn't even be on the Mets radar.
may get something very similar to the 4 for 53 Peralta got, see no reason for him to get less barring a QO, at which point he shouldn't even be on the Mets radar.
You'd have to think he'd likely get QOd right? I'd still be willing to sign him if he's QOd if we don't finish in the bottom 10.
That explains why you value Dickerson so highly. We all fall in love with a few players. And we also tend to overvalue those guys, whether they are on our team or we are envious he is on another. I personally love the way he would fit this Mets teams. I don't view him as a future superstar, a Yelich, but I think he will be a excellent player.
may get something very similar to the 4 for 53 Peralta got, see no reason for him to get less barring a QO, at which point he shouldn't even be on the Mets radar.
You'd have to think he'd likely get QOd right? I'd still be willing to sign him if he's QOd if we don't finish in the bottom 10.
Almost certainly. Only question is if the Mets 1st rounder is protected. Giving up a high first for a 32 year old JJ Hardy would be a farce. OPS+ last 3 seasons is 92
may get something very similar to the 4 for 53 Peralta got, see no reason for him to get less barring a QO, at which point he shouldn't even be on the Mets radar.
You'd have to think he'd likely get QOd right? I'd still be willing to sign him if he's QOd if we don't finish in the bottom 10.
Almost certainly. Only question is if the Mets 1st rounder is protected. Giving up a high first for a 32 year old JJ Hardy would be a farce. OPS+ last 3 seasons is 92
Keep in mind that Peralta did not get the QO. That may have been because of the suspension / because the Tigers were expecting to have Iglesias and didn't want to retain Peralta, but I wouldn't assume the Orioles give Hardy the QO. I would offer it in their position, but I wouldn't assume it will happen.
If he gets the QO and it costs the Mets a 1st, then yeah, I wouldn't advocate for that because the Mets shouldn't be surrendering those types assets for less than a star player. But if he doesn't cost a 1st, I would offer the Peralta deal. The $/WAR this offseason is likely to be around $7M given market trends, and I'd feel comfortable projecting Hardy for anywhere between 8-10 WAR over the next four years.
None of this is to suggest that Hardy ahould be a clear #1 target, but he's a meaningfully above-average player at a position of need who (I think) is relatively likely to live up to his next projected contract.
Peralta didn't get the QO 99% because they traded for Iglesias. Baltimore doesn't have another SS in their system, has already talked extension with Hardy. I'd be absolutely blown away if they don't offer him the QO at this point. 1 year 14 million? He's a LOCK to get a multi-year deal at 10+ and if he were to decide to accept... then 1 year 14 for a starting MLB SS in Hardy as the "worst case" is pretty damn good.
other thing is the Yankees will have an opening at SS, the Sox may (if Xander is now a 3b), The Dodgers may (if Hanley walks) etc. This is a pretty "scary" group of teams that need SS's so Hardy is likely getting paid quite nicely. People throwing out 2 for 20 etc just aren't being realistic. If he ends up with much less than 3 for 40 or so I'd be stunned and I suspect he gets Peralta esque money if no QO.
play a servicable/average SS for the next 4-5 years or is he more of an AL player? It seems like he's banged up a bit. Is he going to get more than 4yr/$90M (just randomly guessing so I could be way off)?
defense has stunk this year and is often hurt but he's going to get paid regardless. If Ellsbury and Choo got 150+ Hanley will certainly clear 100. I suspect 5 guaranteed at 21-22 per or so.
If ever a team needed to start off a season well it will be the Mets next season. Expectations will be so high with Harvey coming back and with all these past seasons of losing they can't afford to get off to a slow start and once again dig a hole for themselves. They don't have the luxury of trading their best hitter because they simply don't have enough other guys on their roster who can hit.
Sure but where are you getting this imaginary player? I swear people views of the leage are warped. There's next to no options available in free agency, the trade options like Cargo all have serious injuries, risk. Bats have become a rarity and if a team is lucky enough to develop one they aren't getting rid of him. I want a 900 ops player too! Can I get a toilet made of solid gold with that as well.
Biggest guys I could see the Mets going for include:
Stanton - the 1 player I think Sandy would move heaven and earth for, if he hits the market. Always a long shot to get the best power hitter in the game when he's 24 years old.
Castro - think the Mets probably like him a lot and Cubs would move him, but Theo will want Thor/Wheeler/JdG and I don't see Sandy doing that.
CarGo - this seems doable considering his value is down and the Rockies should be looking to dump the contract (Thor off the table). Would think there's some kind of a package deal with non-premium assets (Gee/Murphy/Montero/Flores types) that could get it done.
Quote:
and go and get themselves a guy who for the next 4 years you can be pretty darn sure will have a 900+ ops.
Sure but where are you getting this imaginary player? I swear people views of the leage are warped. There's next to no options available in free agency, the trade options like Cargo all have serious injuries, risk. Bats have become a rarity and if a team is lucky enough to develop one they aren't getting rid of him. I want a 900 ops player too! Can I get a toilet made of solid gold with that as well.
The Mets have a deep farm system. They can compete for Stanton if he is made available.
The next 2 years the pitching projects to be excellent and cost effective. This is their time to make a move. Even if it's just overpaying for Hardy/Cuddyer types, the window is legitimately open for this team as long as Harvey comes back strong. Though obviously doing more than Cuddyer/Hardy would be better.
Hardy would be a good target in FA. Very good defensive SS (he's had a meaningfully positive UZR at shortstop in every season) with real pop in his bat. He's going to get more than the 3/22.25 deal he got from Baltimore last time around (talk about a good FA signing, he's been an absolute steal for Baltimore at that price), but plus defenders with power at up-the-middle positions don't grow on trees.
You'd have to think he'd likely get QOd right? I'd still be willing to sign him if he's QOd if we don't finish in the bottom 10.
Quote:
"boy" Dickerson doing work! 2-2, 2 walks, 1 double. Please Nimmo, please be Dickerson-esque!
That explains why you value Dickerson so highly. We all fall in love with a few players. And we also tend to overvalue those guys, whether they are on our team or we are envious he is on another. I personally love the way he would fit this Mets teams. I don't view him as a future superstar, a Yelich, but I think he will be a excellent player.
Dickerson so far today 2-3, 2 homers
Quote:
may get something very similar to the 4 for 53 Peralta got, see no reason for him to get less barring a QO, at which point he shouldn't even be on the Mets radar.
You'd have to think he'd likely get QOd right? I'd still be willing to sign him if he's QOd if we don't finish in the bottom 10.
Almost certainly. Only question is if the Mets 1st rounder is protected. Giving up a high first for a 32 year old JJ Hardy would be a farce. OPS+ last 3 seasons is 92
"We know what we have in Reuben"
Quote:
In comment 11839544 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
may get something very similar to the 4 for 53 Peralta got, see no reason for him to get less barring a QO, at which point he shouldn't even be on the Mets radar.
You'd have to think he'd likely get QOd right? I'd still be willing to sign him if he's QOd if we don't finish in the bottom 10.
Almost certainly. Only question is if the Mets 1st rounder is protected. Giving up a high first for a 32 year old JJ Hardy would be a farce. OPS+ last 3 seasons is 92
Keep in mind that Peralta did not get the QO. That may have been because of the suspension / because the Tigers were expecting to have Iglesias and didn't want to retain Peralta, but I wouldn't assume the Orioles give Hardy the QO. I would offer it in their position, but I wouldn't assume it will happen.
If he gets the QO and it costs the Mets a 1st, then yeah, I wouldn't advocate for that because the Mets shouldn't be surrendering those types assets for less than a star player. But if he doesn't cost a 1st, I would offer the Peralta deal. The $/WAR this offseason is likely to be around $7M given market trends, and I'd feel comfortable projecting Hardy for anywhere between 8-10 WAR over the next four years.
None of this is to suggest that Hardy ahould be a clear #1 target, but he's a meaningfully above-average player at a position of need who (I think) is relatively likely to live up to his next projected contract.