NFT: Mets 9/01 Herrera first HR

I hope he can keep it up.

His fielding

average defensive 2nd baseman

This kid is too small to be productive ;)

and will get past the sloppiness. A home run and a triple - 3 rbi's.

right now? May wanna check it out...

sloppy defense today.

I would use the winter to see if Herrera can learn left field.I don't care how much money Granderson makes the mets can't keep him in the line up amd pretend that they are trying to win games.Unless they can get a good player for Murphy or Herrera I would keep Murphy at second try Herrera in left and play den Dekker in right.Herrera could be a very good lead off hitter.

That's not Herrera. They'd be better served getting a real OF.

lineup with Herrera, Murphy, Lagares, TDA and den Dekker as 5/8 starters is going to have trouble scoring runs

after Brooklyn was eliminated tonight

In comment 11836442 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

lineup with Herrera, Murphy, Lagares, TDA and den Dekker as 5/8 starters is going to have trouble scoring runs

Don't really get why Murphy is being lumped in with that group, he's a good offensive player (not great, but certainly good).

Ranks in Offensive Runs Above Average at 2B, per FanGraphs:
2014: 5th
2013: 7th
2012: 13th
2011: 7th (not showing up on the leaderboard because he played much less 2B in 2011, but he would be 7th).

He's at worst the third-best offensive player on the team, behind Wright if Wright finds his stroke, and presumably Duda, and even then, Murphy has a longer track record of being an above-average offensive player than does Duda.

I mostly agree on the other four guys though.

Being lumped in because he's a 10-15 homer good 2b but suddenly he has to be your 2nd or 3rd best player when 1 is a pitcher and the 4 pthers are Herrera (out of position no less), lagares (not much of a bat), den dekker (again more glove than bat), and a short stop (likely not a huge offensive talent) so your "big" bats are wright, Murphy and duda.. Didn't we see how that went this year? Herrera, den dekker and a new short stop vs Granderson , Chris Younf (awful no doubt) and tejada... Sorry not seeing anything resembling a good lineup.. Not close

Is you have 8 offensive positions. 1 is wright, 1 is duda , 1 is lagares, 1 is Murphy... Lagares value is his glove. Mdd, Herrera (again now out of position where his bat is downgraded substantially if he can even play the position (very weak arm to begin with), "a short stop" and tda.. Not good

Molina wins the NYPENN pitching triple crown.

to play shortstop?

to almost all reports the answer is no and Adam Rubin said the teams views him 100% as a 2b and won't be tried at SS.

" Herrera, who the Mets acquired from the Pirates along with Vic Black for Marlon Byrd and John Buck was impressive as one of the youngest players in the FSL and is the youngest player in the Eastern League and the third-youngest in double-A. Herrera, who turned 20 in March, graduated with a .307/.355/.420 line in 67 games in the FSL, finishing 10th in the League in batting average while landing at #2 in total bases. He has bat-speed, contact ability, a touch of pop, and is a threat on the bases, where he was 14-for-17 stealing bases in the season’s first half. Herrera played 19 games at shortstop for St. Lucie. Scouts were unimpressed and did not think he had the range to handle the position everyday in the big leagues. Even so, exposing him to the position makes him a little more versatile and a little more valuable to any roster. Jeff Moore at Baseball Prospectus, who’s watched Herrera a few times recently saw him shortening his swing, and improving in the last few months: “he has made great strides in limiting that wrap and shortening his stroke. He’s still not a big power producer, but his swing has gone from that of an athlete swinging a bat to a true hitter. He’s much more direct to the ball and is making more consistent contact, a major step forward for a contact/speed type hitter.”

In comment 11836925 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Being lumped in because he's a 10-15 homer good 2b but suddenly he has to be your 2nd or 3rd best player when 1 is a pitcher and the 4 pthers are Herrera (out of position no less), lagares (not much of a bat), den dekker (again more glove than bat), and a short stop (likely not a huge offensive talent) so your "big" bats are wright, Murphy and duda.. Didn't we see how that went this year? Herrera, den dekker and a new short stop vs Granderson , Chris Younf (awful no doubt) and tejada... Sorry not seeing anything resembling a good lineup.. Not close

I don't disagree that the lineup as currently constituted is not close to being good enough. I just don't think it makes sense to lump Murphy in with the other four guys, he's one of the better offensive 2B in baseball and has been for a few years now. You can have a perfectly good offense with him as your fourth best bat. The problem is that this year he's been at worst the second-best bat (Duda has a better batting line, but after adjusting for positional scarcity and Murphy's plus baserunning, it's pretty damn close), last year he was the third-best bat behind Wright and Byrd, etc.

You can have a successful offense with Murphy as anywhere from the third-to-fifth most valuable contributor - in 2011 he was anywhere from 3rd to 5th depending on how you evaluate him vs. Wright vs. Duda, and the Mets finished 6th in the NL in offense.

The problem isn't Murphy - if anything he's slightly better now than he was then - it's that everything surrounding him on offense has gotten worse with the exception of Duda. And so I think it's a little disingenuous to lump him in with the other four guys, as if he's somehow part of the problem. He may not end up being part of the long-term solution, because the Mets have other players who may turn out to be more cost-effective solutions at 2B, but if the Mets aren't scoring enough runs it sure isn't Murphy's fault. He's one of the only position players who's actually earning his paycheck.

Too bad we never had a prospect like him around 06.

is anything but a problem. That wasn't my implication. My point was Murphy is good/very good, he's not a #2-#3 best offensive player on a playoff team (certainly not with a Wright/Duda combo being your 1 and 2) so you start sticking Herrera in LF, pencil in Lagares and MDD (who hasn't hit at all in the bigs), TDA and a SS and it leaves you with very little chance of being good. Murphy isn't the problem at all but Murphy AND Herrera will not be in the same lineup for the Mets. One will be somewhere else.

also will need 4 years 40+ million to retain which is why I expect him to be traded.

The Mets seem to have a few different viable options at 2B, and a number of spots to fill. And he does have one more year of arbitration left. If I'm the Mets and I have confidence in one of Flores/Herrera to be at least league-average at 2B, I'd try to turn Murphy into an average-or-better corner OF.

In comment 11837246 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

also will need 4 years 40+ million to retain which is why I expect him to be traded.

OK, looks like we're on the same page then.

It was a national nightmare.

And besides, he'd have to become a better power hitter.

against dek Dekker but outside of walking a bit more he's been just as bad as last year .207/.270/.276 last year, .208/.303/.260 this year, yeah it's only 61 games overall but the guy is 27 years old. He and Kirk may just be AAAA players.

I think he means "turn" as in trade but hard time seeing a team giving up a good corner OF for 1 year of Daniel Murphy at 8+ million and "the right" to give him a new contract.

many teams have an "extra" average or better corner OF to "spare" to upgrade at 2b? Really think it's prospects for Murphy if they deal him.

for prospects if they ever want to become competitive. Ugh, this team.

In comment 11837256 DanMetroMan said:

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I think he means "turn" as in trade but hard time seeing a team giving up a good corner OF for 1 year of Daniel Murphy at 8+ million and "the right" to give him a new contract.

Yes, I mean turn as in trade. And obviously you're not getting a Stanton back for Murphy, not even close. But Murphy has established himself as a two-to-three win player by almost any metric. Can he pull an above-average cost-controlled outfielder back? No, but he should be able to get a comparable outfielder who is also about to get expensive, or a cost-controlled OF if the Mets are willing to make a package with Murphy in it.

Point is (obviously), if the Mets view either Flores or Herrera as a potential long-term solution at 2B, it would behoove them to try and find out next year. If they don't think any of those guys can stick at 2B, then they aren't going to stick in a corner either, so they should try to turn those players into something else. What they shouldn't do is stand pat - it's a waste of resources to keep two potential 2B trapped behind a proven incumbent while you have major issues at other positions.

don't think they view Flores (or Puello) as much and think either/both are dealt in the off-season, end up being waiver claims (both out of options) in 2015. Not saying they are right or wrong.

In comment 11837274 PhiPsi125 said:

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for prospects if they ever want to become competitive. Ugh, this team.

Guys like Mike Trout, Miguel Cabrera, etc. NEVER hit Free Agency in their prime. The way you get them is to draft them or trade for them when they are prospects. Trading your prospects for top players or signing a bunch of Free Agents does not lead to lasting success. If you do not have prospects and you sign a Jason Bay and you are not picking in the Top 10 you are losing a first round pick as well so if he flops you have NOBODY in your system to replace him. The Mets problems stemmed from poor drafting and a misconception that the only way to build a team is through Free Agency

Are the three obvious teams with excess OF that the Mets can match up. Best case scenario is a three way with the Rockies to net Dickerson. Cheap, young of who fits the desires of a player in the Sandy mold to a T.

Murphy + to team X such as the orioles. Young highly rated pitching prospect from team X to the Rockies. Dickerson to Mets

Between moving Murphy plus a starter, plenty of money in huge budget to acquire talent at SS or elsewhere.

see no way the Rockies deal Dickerson. Young, cheap, cost controlled. I suspect the price for him would be insane and beyond what say a Gausman would bring back (I doubt Murphy would bring back a huge pitching prospect) and even if he did... I would suggest that still wouldn't be enough for a guy about to put up a 3+ WAR season who just turned 25 and not arbitration eligible until 2017

Well, they have to do something. Only so many spots to play so many players. Safe to assume they would move CarGo if they could, but I think that just got a lot harder for them to do. Selling about as low as possible there.

Most contenders seem fine in the Of, but a few really need a 2b. Mets go into this offseason sitting pretty with Murphy. As much demand as there is for an OF with a 3WAR season. There is more demand for a 3 WAR 2B.
Just using them as an example.

think CarGo is still dealt, but they aren't forced to move one of the OF at the moment, not with Dickerson being so cheap.

What would you think it would take for the mets to acquire Dickerson directly?
And what do you see the Mets getting for Murphy in a hypothetical trade?

and Montero for Dickerson? Then we could extend Murphy and our offense would be better than it is now.

don't believe outside of Thor, deGrom or Wheeler the Mets have a headliner to land Dickerson and I'm not even sure the Rockies deal him for one. A young "proven" regular is really, really hard to find. The Rockies DO have a bunch of OF talent but I don't think Dickerson is the one who goes. For instance, I really like Matz but almost no way the Rockies deal him for Matz. Dickerson sure looks like the real deal to me.

breakout isn't even all that shocking. He's hit at every level and then put up solid numbers as a rookie in 69 games. I wonder if teams inquired him after last season?

In comment 11837672 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

breakout isn't even all that shocking. He's hit at every level and then put up solid numbers as a rookie in 69 games. I wonder if teams inquired him after last season?

Is he good enough to deal Thor for in your opinion?

would be a very tough call for me. He has a 137 wRC+ which takes into account park factors, that ranks him 21st in all of baseball (not just OF's). Track record would be the issue but I'd love to see the FO have some guts for a move like that if they felt conviction for a player.

Appreciate your response re Dickerson.
Know do you value murphy in a trade? What do you see teams offering for him?

spoke to Adam Rubin right before the deadline via email and he said the Mets didn't get offers for Murphy they "deemed fair in-season" but he thought Murphy would more likely than not be moved (in part because of his salary/impending contract). Some teams apparently grade him more poorly defensively than others (The Blue Jays apparently had zero interest due to his glove). If I had a guess a 3 way deal (not too dissimilar to what you suggested but with a lesser return) being the most realistic outcome here. I wouldn't worry about getting back a SS or an OF, get inventory. I still would like to buy low on someone like Brad Miller (not Murphy for Miller, just in general). They apparently LOVE Herrera, scouts have really warmed to him, hopefully they find one team like Baltimore or the White Sox who see Murphy as a solid addition.

Do the Marlins say yes?

If so, who would the other 3 be besides Wheeler or deGrom? Strongest offer is probably Wheeler, Thor, Nimmo, and Herrera? I'd almost definitely do that.

Harvey - Colon - Niese - Gee - JdG
(Matz/Montero still in the system)

Mets up 6-3

The Pirates ("stupid but not crazy") offer last deadline wasn't as good as yours Eric. And the Marlins gave it some thought, for the first time ever. So I'd imagine it's in the ballpark.

I've said it many times before. I'd make an offer to the. Marlins in the "stupid" range. Pick any five prospects, done deal. You want a major leaguer (wheeler/DeGrom, etc) then you get your choice of three prospects with him. Blow up the farm for Stanton, take a chance to re energize the fan base.

In comment 11838036 Kevin999 said:

Quote:

Mets up 6-3

Flores 2/3 with 2 runs in the 8th hole. Not sure how he is batting behind the AA player Herrera.

If you were to say 2 years ago that the Mets have a guy in their system who will not only be the best defensive CF in baseball but hit .280?? I'd say you were shitting me.

Talk about pleasant surprises. I know I'm not up on prospects like most of you but, what was his scouting report pre-majors?

People said last year it was IMPOSSIBLE he would hit more than .260. Well, he improved as a hitter. I know his BABIP is still high but I think he's one of those players where it will always be high. He's also very fast and should be able to improve his base stealing ability as well. If he can hit .290 and steal 20 bases with his defense he will be an absolute star in this league.

In all seriousness...I wouldn't be surprised if moron TC batted the pitcher in front of Flores.

Nice to see Flores persevering though. I really don't get all the poo-pooing of Flores at SS. He's no Ozzie Smith out there but I'm certainly not uncomfortable with him at SS.

He looks fine at SS. He had that really bad day where he bottled up and made two bad throws but he's been great in just about every other. I still feel he'll catch fire eventually if he just stays in the lineup, but who knows.

Seems he gets robbed of a hit almost every single game. Another one today.

and anxious at the plate. I think once he settles down a little more he's going to unload. I hope he gets the chance here. I still think he'll be a good player.

with Lagares but Im growing on Flores, Herrera, Lagares, and TDA all in the lineup in 2015. Duda, Wright, Granderson, Big Bat LF/RFer and I think we are good.

IDK. Maybe flip Murphy for Kemp with them eating a lot of his contract. Done deal. Keep all the pitching and the kids.

is the worst OF in baseball in 2014 defensively, #1 worst (by a significant margin no less). No way do you take him on for the next 5 seasons even if the Dodgers eat money. He's been so bad in the OF he's been worth -0.3 bWAR and 0.7 fWAR. Even if the Dodgers ate 30 million (which I doubt) he'd STILL be owed 5 years 77.5 million (nearly 16 per)


" Buster Olney ✔ @Buster_ESPN
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To assess Matt Kemp's current value, asked 2 execs what they'd give him as a free agent today. 1st response:2 years, $16m; 2nd: 2 yrs, $15m."


Ken Rosenthal ✔ @Ken_Rosenthal
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One GM said of Kemp, “he doesn’t add much value to any deal for us even at half his salary.” Kemp is owed about $114M.


Kemp is a DH shortly.

Linked below is the worst defensive OF's in terms of runs saved.. Kemp has allowed 26 runs that an average OF does not... second worst is Hunter... at 17
Link - ( New Window )

UZR is 2nd worst in baseball at 30.6 (only Dexter Fowler is close) and his runs plus/minus is also last in baseball.

and get his on base percentage above .350
we might of found our lead off hitter

In comment 11838408 Headhunter said:

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and get his on base percentage above .350 we might of found our lead off hitter

HH, you have to admit that's asking a lot to expect Legares to get on at a 350 clip consistently. Let's just be very happy with what he is. A young player who is developing into a really fun player to watch for hopefully a long time. Anything more than that is gravy.

has been fantastic but a .350+ OBP seems pretty unlikely. 39 players in baseball have an OBP .350 or greater, all but 3 have a walk rate at least DOUBLE Lagares (Jose Abreu, Jose Altuve, Lonnie Chisenhall). None of the 39 have a walk rate as low as Lagares and 30/39 are at least 10% (average). It's not IMPOSSIBLE but it doesn't seem realistic barring a change in approach. As great as Lagares has been he's still only walking 4.8% of his AB's second half.

view Lagares as a 7 hitter with an A++ glove on a good team. Any offense he adds is gravy but his patience isn't ideal hitting leadoff and he clearly doesn't have 6 hitter power. Nothing wrong with having an ELITE defensive 7 hitter with SOME offense though.

"boy" Dickerson doing work! 2-2, 2 walks, 1 double. Please Nimmo, please be Dickerson-esque!

in mind is that he works on his game. He is 25 an is improving incrementally. Maybe .350 OBP is a pipe dream, but I think next season you will see a more selective Juan Lagares. His walk rate might not drastically change, but he will cut down swing at pitches out the zone and getting himself out as much as he ha

is an absolute stud in the OF. No debate here. Really impressive "out of nowhere" development. Keith Law believe it or not was always a reasonably big Lagares fan (granted he saw him as a solid extra OF) but I always found it to be a weird player for him to randomly like, sure nailed that one. Still think he's a good 7th hitter going forward but he's certainly "inked" in as a a key piece of the team going forward than some other guys.

assuming he can stay healthy while doing it I totally agree with pushing this

" “You can’t play center field like he plays it, with that first step, and not be able to be a good baserunner — because this guy is daring, he’s got a great first step, he’s got great speed when he gets it going. But what we’ve got to do is get him to top speed faster. He shows it in the outfield. That’s why I say there’s no reason why he shouldn’t be able to do it” (Rubin, ESPN)."

and he is just 25. Sometimes you get lucky

I was not sold on his bat, at all, going into this season, but he's really shown a lot this season and I don't think it's been of the "fluke" variety. It's not all put together just yet but he has some pop, knows how to make contact, and has had much better AB's than a season ago despite the still low walk totals.

After this year I view the best case with him to be a lot like Yadier Molina 5-6 years ago - an important defensive player who can stick in the lineup as long as he can be about average as a hitter, but upside to hopefully continue improving. Not saying he'll ever post any seasons with an .800+ OPS, but it also wouldn't shock me.

I like that Yadier Molina loose comp. Don't think he's ever that level of offensive player but crazier things have happened. Really hope they view him as a 7 hitter and don't try and pretend he's a 5-6 hitter because they refuse to really upgrade. Again, look for the "next" Dickerson. No more Granderson/Kemp moves for me.

his OBP will always be batting average heavy but I do not see why it would be unrealistic to expect .280/.330-.335/.400-.420 if he becomes more selective at the plate which combined with his defense a good team will take in CF

sure, but that's not the line of someone you want hitting leadoff.

anything you get above league average offense there is gravy. That's what made Carlos Beltran a freak of nature. He could slug and play gold glove D at CF. It seems like now everyone expects their CF to be an offensive force.

As long as Lagares is league-average I'm perfectly fine with him.

1. SS/OF
2. Dilson Herrera
3. David Wright
4. OF
5. Duda
6. d'Arnaud
7. Lagares
8. SS/OF

My only problem is that I'm a little leery of d'Arnaud's defense long term. And hopefully Wright will rebound otherwise we may need another 3rd place hitter.

In comment 11838646 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

sure, but that's not the line of someone you want hitting leadoff.

Agreed he is more of a 7 hitter but I would rather see an eighth hitter that is more than a singles guy because Lagares can score from first on a double. His numbers have declined, but on a reasonable contract I would not be against having someone like Asdrubal Cabrera as an 8th hitter because he would be a threat to hit 35-40 doubles playing half of his games at Citi Field. The average and OBP suck but he can drive in someone like Lagares

is an abomination at SS. He's a 2b going forward so not a fit for the Mets.

also going to get a lot more money than a 95 million dollar payroll can pay an 8 hitter.

In comment 11838637 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

I like that Yadier Molina loose comp. Don't think he's ever that level of offensive player but crazier things have happened. Really hope they view him as a 7 hitter and don't try and pretend he's a 5-6 hitter because they refuse to really upgrade. Again, look for the "next" Dickerson. No more Granderson/Kemp moves for me.

I agree completely. Viewing Lagares' offense as anything more than gravy is asking for disappointment. Doesn't have the patience for the top of the lineup, nor the pop for the middle. 7-8 only until proven otherwise.

They absolutely need to add a 3 or 4 hitter this offseason to go with Duda and Wright. The only thing that might slightly change that reality is if they add a big time leadoff hitter, then perhaps they could settle for a short term mid-order guy like Cuddyer?

I probably shouldn't allow myself to do this, but I'm personally starting to hope for Stanton. Seems clear they still have a lot of friction there and his trade value will never be higher. The Mets have one of the few top systems (especially if you count some recent grads) that might have enough to get it done. Any 4 players under 25. He'd be a total game changer for this team.

In comment 11838427 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

"boy" Dickerson doing work! 2-2, 2 walks, 1 double. Please Nimmo, please be Dickerson-esque!

That explains why you value Dickerson so highly. We all fall in love with a few players. And we also tend to overvalue those guys, whether they are on our team or we are envious he is on another. I personally love the way he would fit this Mets teams. I don't view him as a future superstar, a Yelich, but I think he will be a excellent player.

Most Defensive Runs Saved in 2014

Entering September
Jason Heyward Braves 34
Juan Lagares Mets 30
Alex Gordon Royals 22
Andrelton Simmons Braves 22
Josh Donaldson Athletics 20
Zack Cozart Reds 20

It’s not just those on Lagares’ team who feel this way. "I saw him last year, and he was impressive,” Braves manager Fredi Gonzalez said at Citi Field last week. “I said to my coaches, he might be the best center fielder in the National League. Now, a year later, there's no doubt about it.”

But are to we not trying to get a bat in the lineup? Is a poor defender in LF really going to kill us when we have the best CF in the game right next to him? And how sure are we his poor showing isn't a result of trying to come back from numerous injuries this year and last? He was playing CF at a pretty high level not that long ago. Not even saying I want him necessarily but he might be an easy add. Seems like Dodgers are willing eat a lot.

Heyward every 34.3. So by that metric, Lagares is clearly the better defender.

But you negate Lagares defense when you put the very worst OF in baseball next to him and it's not a 1-2 year "gamble" it's 5 more seasons you are stuck with him. You expect the mets to move on for the final 3 years if he's owed "only" 40 million during that time? No chance. Also no reason to believe an injury prone player is going to stay healthy at 31-35. Poor gamble 100%.

Kemp has been less valuable than Granderson in 2014. Would anybody want to give Granderson 5 years at even 10 per?

31-35 isn't that old. Seems a lot more reasonable than Tulo or signing a Hanley. How sure are we that he's absolutely the worst outfielder in baseball moving forward? Because of his injury riddled 2014? That doesn't seen like a lot substantial data? Probably had to adjust to a new position as well this year. It's fine if you disagree but I at least find it intriguing.

3 gma quoted by rosenthal and olney clearly agree he's in a free fall and not simply learning a "new" position. He's been absolutely awful out there, not "meh", he's 26 runs worse than the next guy. He's been Lucas duda bad. That's not explained by a move off of CF. He's not moving to a corner from ss. He's owed 114 million. If the dodgers are 40 the mets would still be paying him 70+ for 5 years so if 2014 is Matt Kemp it's an utter disaster

Been injury riddled for more than one year at this point.

Cost move in terms of talent given up he might be an intriguing add. He's a couple years removed from being the best bat in the league. Granderson never was that kind of player.

Probably closer to half if we are giving up a murphy caliber player or a good prospect package.

Just spent nearly 30 million on a Cuban 2b/3b and have Dee Gordon. Murphy isn't a fit for the Dodgers

Best young hotter still in the minors is also a 2b/3b in Seager and he's probably up next year if they have a need. Murphy might have value but that's not the team

He can play some third or they can flip him. Kemp's not costing a lot in terms of talent anyway. Anyways...

You are praying that the last 2 seasons of Kemp isn't what you are getting.... For the next 5. If he is.. That's your core.. Wright, Granderson and Matt kemp with almost no room to maneuver given guys like duda being arbitration guys already and his like wheeler and Harvey going to get big arbitration numbers as well. 5 years should be given to no brainer or guys in their prime not "let's look past 1.5 years".

and go and get themselves a guy who for the next 4 years you can be pretty darn sure will have a 900+ ops.

Is an AL player to me. If the Yankees didn't have Beltran he's be a great fit. Maybe Texas takes a shot

instead of Murphy the team is taking a step backwards offensively. I can see him being there at some point, but just further out.

If ever a team needed to start off a season well it will be the Mets next season. Expectations will be so high with Harvey coming back and with all these past seasons of losing they can't afford to get off to a slow start and once again dig a hole for themselves. They don't have the luxury of trading their best hitter because they simply don't have enough other guys on their roster who can hit.

In comment 11839137 chris r said:

Quote:

and go and get themselves a guy who for the next 4 years you can be pretty darn sure will have a 900+ ops.

Sure but where are you getting this imaginary player? I swear people views of the leage are warped. There's next to no options available in free agency, the trade options like Cargo all have serious injuries, risk. Bats have become a rarity and if a team is lucky enough to develop one they aren't getting rid of him. I want a 900 ops player too! Can I get a toilet made of solid gold with that as well.

and that's doubtful since he's had a good year at the plate. He's destined to go to an AL franchise willing to take a that big of a financial gamble (Sox or Yankees).

Biggest guys I could see the Mets going for include:
Stanton - the 1 player I think Sandy would move heaven and earth for, if he hits the market. Always a long shot to get the best power hitter in the game when he's 24 years old.
Castro - think the Mets probably like him a lot and Cubs would move him, but Theo will want Thor/Wheeler/JdG and I don't see Sandy doing that.
CarGo - this seems doable considering his value is down and the Rockies should be looking to dump the contract (Thor off the table). Would think there's some kind of a package deal with non-premium assets (Gee/Murphy/Montero/Flores types) that could get it done.

In comment 11839152 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

In comment 11839137 chris r said: Quote: and go and get themselves a guy who for the next 4 years you can be pretty darn sure will have a 900+ ops. Sure but where are you getting this imaginary player? I swear people views of the leage are warped. There's next to no options available in free agency, the trade options like Cargo all have serious injuries, risk. Bats have become a rarity and if a team is lucky enough to develop one they aren't getting rid of him. I want a 900 ops player too! Can I get a toilet made of solid gold with that as well.

The Mets have a deep farm system. They can compete for Stanton if he is made available.

take Thor and Nimmo for Addison Russel?

Injury I just don't know anymore. The guy is an injured mess. Castro seems like a pretty poor defensive SS and Theo has told him they want to keep him. I just don't know. We may really just have to wait for Flores/Herrera/Reynolds/Tovar/Nimmo/Conforto to develop and hope our pitching carries us.

By then the pitching will be getting expensive to keep, with many possibly already lost to FA.

The next 2 years the pitching projects to be excellent and cost effective. This is their time to make a move. Even if it's just overpaying for Hardy/Cuddyer types, the window is legitimately open for this team as long as Harvey comes back strong. Though obviously doing more than Cuddyer/Hardy would be better.

is the Cubs have plenty of money so I think people are a bit misguided when they suggest the Cubs have some desperate need to deal bats for arms. I believe they are going to be the team that signs Lester (possibly Shields) but Arrieta has been fantastic, Hendricks looks good, Edwards should help them at some point next year and yeah they could trade for some pitching, I just think they are in the drivers seat.

doesn't even belong on the 25 man roster next season if he doesn't hit better in Sept let alone starting.

Castro is possibly the best fit out there for the Mets other than Stanton. You can nitpick and say he isn't a GG'er or true middle of the order guy, but the bottomline is he's a top 5 WAR SS every year, plays every game, he's young and has a great contract. They will not give that up unless they have the chance to get an equally rare commodity - which would be Thor or Wheeler.

suspect (like most) that the Mets engage the Cubs in SS trade talks but the price won't be low just because they have depth. Theo loves him some high upside/big name prospects and Sandy seemingly hates giving them up so it may be tough. For a Stanton it's an absolute no brainer however. Personally if I'm the Mets I'm dealing both Niese and Gee now if I get even "fair" offers.

Cuddyer/hardy and wait on Nimmo/Conforto. I agree the time to go for it is now. Who knows how long these pitchers will be healthy and together. The window isn't as large as people think. I just don't know of the right trade will be available.

should be ok with the Mets sucking again next season. Either they finish over .500 or everyone should go. Manager, FO, everyone.

I just don't see a lot of bats as realistic options. I think we'll be strong regardless. Guys like Lagares, TDA, Duda should continue to improve. Hopefully a guy like Herrera/Flores busts out. Hopefully Wright/Granderson rebound even a little. I'd also trade Neise/Gee/Colon/Murphy for whatever we can get. I don't think we will be a below .500 team next year based on our rotation/bullpen alone.

just don't want to hear "well it's Harvey's first year back" or "Herrera's first year" or "well Duda missed 40 games". No excuses, find a way to put a winning team on the field. If that's 83 wins so be it. 76-92 aint cutting it.

With Harvey out considering he's one of the top players in baseball I gave them another year but that's it for me. 2015 is time to put up or shutup.

In comment 11839318 ZGiants98 said:

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Cuddyer/hardy and wait on Nimmo/Conforto. I agree the time to go for it is now. Who knows how long these pitchers will be healthy and together. The window isn't as large as people think. I just don't know of the right trade will be available.

Hardy would be a good target in FA. Very good defensive SS (he's had a meaningfully positive UZR at shortstop in every season) with real pop in his bat. He's going to get more than the 3/22.25 deal he got from Baltimore last time around (talk about a good FA signing, he's been an absolute steal for Baltimore at that price), but plus defenders with power at up-the-middle positions don't grow on trees.

may get something very similar to the 4 for 53 Peralta got, see no reason for him to get less barring a QO, at which point he shouldn't even be on the Mets radar.

sees Herrera as a future number 2 hitter

I think Hardy is a near lock for a QO which would cost the Mets their 1st round pick. No way I do that.

In comment 11839544 DanMetroMan said:

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may get something very similar to the 4 for 53 Peralta got, see no reason for him to get less barring a QO, at which point he shouldn't even be on the Mets radar.

You'd have to think he'd likely get QOd right? I'd still be willing to sign him if he's QOd if we don't finish in the bottom 10.

In comment 11838964 Shecky said:

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In comment 11838427 DanMetroMan said: Quote: "boy" Dickerson doing work! 2-2, 2 walks, 1 double. Please Nimmo, please be Dickerson-esque! That explains why you value Dickerson so highly. We all fall in love with a few players. And we also tend to overvalue those guys, whether they are on our team or we are envious he is on another. I personally love the way he would fit this Mets teams. I don't view him as a future superstar, a Yelich, but I think he will be a excellent player.

Dickerson so far today 2-3, 2 homers

In comment 11839552 Metnut said:

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In comment 11839544 DanMetroMan said: Quote: may get something very similar to the 4 for 53 Peralta got, see no reason for him to get less barring a QO, at which point he shouldn't even be on the Mets radar. You'd have to think he'd likely get QOd right? I'd still be willing to sign him if he's QOd if we don't finish in the bottom 10.

Almost certainly. Only question is if the Mets 1st rounder is protected. Giving up a high first for a 32 year old JJ Hardy would be a farce. OPS+ last 3 seasons is 92

give up the second rounder for Hardy for a 3 year deal. I think he ends up with a Peralta deal though.

even more so if Collins is still here.

"We know what we have in Reuben"

Hardy is 32 and will want a multi-year contract.

In comment 11839567 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 11839552 Metnut said: Quote: In comment 11839544 DanMetroMan said: Quote: may get something very similar to the 4 for 53 Peralta got, see no reason for him to get less barring a QO, at which point he shouldn't even be on the Mets radar. You'd have to think he'd likely get QOd right? I'd still be willing to sign him if he's QOd if we don't finish in the bottom 10. Almost certainly. Only question is if the Mets 1st rounder is protected. Giving up a high first for a 32 year old JJ Hardy would be a farce. OPS+ last 3 seasons is 92

Keep in mind that Peralta did not get the QO. That may have been because of the suspension / because the Tigers were expecting to have Iglesias and didn't want to retain Peralta, but I wouldn't assume the Orioles give Hardy the QO. I would offer it in their position, but I wouldn't assume it will happen.

If he gets the QO and it costs the Mets a 1st, then yeah, I wouldn't advocate for that because the Mets shouldn't be surrendering those types assets for less than a star player. But if he doesn't cost a 1st, I would offer the Peralta deal. The $/WAR this offseason is likely to be around $7M given market trends, and I'd feel comfortable projecting Hardy for anywhere between 8-10 WAR over the next four years.

None of this is to suggest that Hardy ahould be a clear #1 target, but he's a meaningfully above-average player at a position of need who (I think) is relatively likely to live up to his next projected contract.

Peralta didn't get the QO 99% because they traded for Iglesias. Baltimore doesn't have another SS in their system, has already talked extension with Hardy. I'd be absolutely blown away if they don't offer him the QO at this point. 1 year 14 million? He's a LOCK to get a multi-year deal at 10+ and if he were to decide to accept... then 1 year 14 for a starting MLB SS in Hardy as the "worst case" is pretty damn good.

other thing is the Yankees will have an opening at SS, the Sox may (if Xander is now a 3b), The Dodgers may (if Hanley walks) etc. This is a pretty "scary" group of teams that need SS's so Hardy is likely getting paid quite nicely. People throwing out 2 for 20 etc just aren't being realistic. If he ends up with much less than 3 for 40 or so I'd be stunned and I suspect he gets Peralta esque money if no QO.

Wonder what he signs for this offseason Never saw an agent AND player destroy so much value in less than a year.

play a servicable/average SS for the next 4-5 years or is he more of an AL player? It seems like he's banged up a bit. Is he going to get more than 4yr/$90M (just randomly guessing so I could be way off)?

defense has stunk this year and is often hurt but he's going to get paid regardless. If Ellsbury and Choo got 150+ Hanley will certainly clear 100. I suspect 5 guaranteed at 21-22 per or so.

may get more than that from a team that sees him as a 3b going forward + his defense was fine through last year so teams might look past it a bit.

sounds like we might be stuck with Drew and Cuddyer and hoping that internal options can improve. Exciting.