In all seriousness...I wouldn't be surprised if moron TC batted the pitcher in front of Flores.
Nice to see Flores persevering though. I really don't get all the poo-pooing of Flores at SS. He's no Ozzie Smith out there but I'm certainly not uncomfortable with him at SS.
He looks fine at SS. He had that really bad day where he bottled up and made two bad throws but he's been great in just about every other. I still feel he'll catch fire eventually if he just stays in the lineup, but who knows.
and anxious at the plate. I think once he settles down a little more he's going to unload. I hope he gets the chance here. I still think he'll be a good player.
with Lagares but Im growing on Flores, Herrera, Lagares, and TDA all in the lineup in 2015. Duda, Wright, Granderson, Big Bat LF/RFer and I think we are good.
IDK. Maybe flip Murphy for Kemp with them eating a lot of his contract. Done deal. Keep all the pitching and the kids.
is the worst OF in baseball in 2014 defensively, #1 worst (by a significant margin no less). No way do you take him on for the next 5 seasons even if the Dodgers eat money. He's been so bad in the OF he's been worth -0.3 bWAR and 0.7 fWAR. Even if the Dodgers ate 30 million (which I doubt) he'd STILL be owed 5 years 77.5 million (nearly 16 per)
" Buster Olney ✔ @Buster_ESPN
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To assess Matt Kemp's current value, asked 2 execs what they'd give him as a free agent today. 1st response:2 years, $16m; 2nd: 2 yrs, $15m."
Ken Rosenthal ✔ @Ken_Rosenthal
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One GM said of Kemp, “he doesn’t add much value to any deal for us even at half his salary.” Kemp is owed about $114M.
Kemp is a DH shortly.
Linked below is the worst defensive OF's in terms of runs saved.. Kemp has allowed 26 runs that an average OF does not... second worst is Hunter... at 17 Link - ( New Window )
and get his on base percentage above .350
we might of found our lead off hitter
HH, you have to admit that's asking a lot to expect Legares to get on at a 350 clip consistently. Let's just be very happy with what he is. A young player who is developing into a really fun player to watch for hopefully a long time. Anything more than that is gravy.
has been fantastic but a .350+ OBP seems pretty unlikely. 39 players in baseball have an OBP .350 or greater, all but 3 have a walk rate at least DOUBLE Lagares (Jose Abreu, Jose Altuve, Lonnie Chisenhall). None of the 39 have a walk rate as low as Lagares and 30/39 are at least 10% (average). It's not IMPOSSIBLE but it doesn't seem realistic barring a change in approach. As great as Lagares has been he's still only walking 4.8% of his AB's second half.
view Lagares as a 7 hitter with an A++ glove on a good team. Any offense he adds is gravy but his patience isn't ideal hitting leadoff and he clearly doesn't have 6 hitter power. Nothing wrong with having an ELITE defensive 7 hitter with SOME offense though.
in mind is that he works on his game. He is 25 an is improving incrementally. Maybe .350 OBP is a pipe dream, but I think next season you will see a more selective Juan Lagares. His walk rate might not drastically change, but he will cut down swing at pitches out the zone and getting himself out as much as he ha
is an absolute stud in the OF. No debate here. Really impressive "out of nowhere" development. Keith Law believe it or not was always a reasonably big Lagares fan (granted he saw him as a solid extra OF) but I always found it to be a weird player for him to randomly like, sure nailed that one. Still think he's a good 7th hitter going forward but he's certainly "inked" in as a a key piece of the team going forward than some other guys.
assuming he can stay healthy while doing it I totally agree with pushing this
" “You can’t play center field like he plays it, with that first step, and not be able to be a good baserunner — because this guy is daring, he’s got a great first step, he’s got great speed when he gets it going. But what we’ve got to do is get him to top speed faster. He shows it in the outfield. That’s why I say there’s no reason why he shouldn’t be able to do it” (Rubin, ESPN)."
I was not sold on his bat, at all, going into this season, but he's really shown a lot this season and I don't think it's been of the "fluke" variety. It's not all put together just yet but he has some pop, knows how to make contact, and has had much better AB's than a season ago despite the still low walk totals.
After this year I view the best case with him to be a lot like Yadier Molina 5-6 years ago - an important defensive player who can stick in the lineup as long as he can be about average as a hitter, but upside to hopefully continue improving. Not saying he'll ever post any seasons with an .800+ OPS, but it also wouldn't shock me.
I like that Yadier Molina loose comp. Don't think he's ever that level of offensive player but crazier things have happened. Really hope they view him as a 7 hitter and don't try and pretend he's a 5-6 hitter because they refuse to really upgrade. Again, look for the "next" Dickerson. No more Granderson/Kemp moves for me.
his OBP will always be batting average heavy but I do not see why it would be unrealistic to expect .280/.330-.335/.400-.420 if he becomes more selective at the plate which combined with his defense a good team will take in CF
anything you get above league average offense there is gravy. That's what made Carlos Beltran a freak of nature. He could slug and play gold glove D at CF. It seems like now everyone expects their CF to be an offensive force.
As long as Lagares is league-average I'm perfectly fine with him.
1. SS/OF
2. Dilson Herrera
3. David Wright
4. OF
5. Duda
6. d'Arnaud
7. Lagares
8. SS/OF
My only problem is that I'm a little leery of d'Arnaud's defense long term. And hopefully Wright will rebound otherwise we may need another 3rd place hitter.
sure, but that's not the line of someone you want hitting leadoff.
Agreed he is more of a 7 hitter but I would rather see an eighth hitter that is more than a singles guy because Lagares can score from first on a double. His numbers have declined, but on a reasonable contract I would not be against having someone like Asdrubal Cabrera as an 8th hitter because he would be a threat to hit 35-40 doubles playing half of his games at Citi Field. The average and OBP suck but he can drive in someone like Lagares
I like that Yadier Molina loose comp. Don't think he's ever that level of offensive player but crazier things have happened. Really hope they view him as a 7 hitter and don't try and pretend he's a 5-6 hitter because they refuse to really upgrade. Again, look for the "next" Dickerson. No more Granderson/Kemp moves for me.
I agree completely. Viewing Lagares' offense as anything more than gravy is asking for disappointment. Doesn't have the patience for the top of the lineup, nor the pop for the middle. 7-8 only until proven otherwise.
They absolutely need to add a 3 or 4 hitter this offseason to go with Duda and Wright. The only thing that might slightly change that reality is if they add a big time leadoff hitter, then perhaps they could settle for a short term mid-order guy like Cuddyer?
I probably shouldn't allow myself to do this, but I'm personally starting to hope for Stanton. Seems clear they still have a lot of friction there and his trade value will never be higher. The Mets have one of the few top systems (especially if you count some recent grads) that might have enough to get it done. Any 4 players under 25. He'd be a total game changer for this team.
That explains why you value Dickerson so highly. We all fall in love with a few players. And we also tend to overvalue those guys, whether they are on our team or we are envious he is on another. I personally love the way he would fit this Mets teams. I don't view him as a future superstar, a Yelich, but I think he will be a excellent player.
It’s not just those on Lagares’ team who feel this way. "I saw him last year, and he was impressive,” Braves manager Fredi Gonzalez said at Citi Field last week. “I said to my coaches, he might be the best center fielder in the National League. Now, a year later, there's no doubt about it.”
But are to we not trying to get a bat in the lineup? Is a poor defender in LF really going to kill us when we have the best CF in the game right next to him? And how sure are we his poor showing isn't a result of trying to come back from numerous injuries this year and last? He was playing CF at a pretty high level not that long ago. Not even saying I want him necessarily but he might be an easy add. Seems like Dodgers are willing eat a lot.
But you negate Lagares defense when you put the very worst OF in baseball next to him and it's not a 1-2 year "gamble" it's 5 more seasons you are stuck with him. You expect the mets to move on for the final 3 years if he's owed "only" 40 million during that time? No chance. Also no reason to believe an injury prone player is going to stay healthy at 31-35. Poor gamble 100%.
31-35 isn't that old. Seems a lot more reasonable than Tulo or signing a Hanley. How sure are we that he's absolutely the worst outfielder in baseball moving forward? Because of his injury riddled 2014? That doesn't seen like a lot substantial data? Probably had to adjust to a new position as well this year. It's fine if you disagree but I at least find it intriguing.
3 gma quoted by rosenthal and olney clearly agree he's in a free fall and not simply learning a "new" position. He's been absolutely awful out there, not "meh", he's 26 runs worse than the next guy. He's been Lucas duda bad. That's not explained by a move off of CF. He's not moving to a corner from ss. He's owed 114 million. If the dodgers are 40 the mets would still be paying him 70+ for 5 years so if 2014 is Matt Kemp it's an utter disaster
Cost move in terms of talent given up he might be an intriguing add. He's a couple years removed from being the best bat in the league. Granderson never was that kind of player.
Best young hotter still in the minors is also a 2b/3b in Seager and he's probably up next year if they have a need. Murphy might have value but that's not the team
You are praying that the last 2 seasons of Kemp isn't what you are getting.... For the next 5. If he is.. That's your core.. Wright, Granderson and Matt kemp with almost no room to maneuver given guys like duda being arbitration guys already and his like wheeler and Harvey going to get big arbitration numbers as well. 5 years should be given to no brainer or guys in their prime not "let's look past 1.5 years".
Mets need to stop with these reclaimation projects Â
instead of Murphy the team is taking a step backwards offensively. I can see him being there at some point, but just further out.
If ever a team needed to start off a season well it will be the Mets next season. Expectations will be so high with Harvey coming back and with all these past seasons of losing they can't afford to get off to a slow start and once again dig a hole for themselves. They don't have the luxury of trading their best hitter because they simply don't have enough other guys on their roster who can hit.
RE: Mets need to stop with these reclaimation projects Â
and go and get themselves a guy who for the next 4 years you can be pretty darn sure will have a 900+ ops.
Sure but where are you getting this imaginary player? I swear people views of the leage are warped. There's next to no options available in free agency, the trade options like Cargo all have serious injuries, risk. Bats have become a rarity and if a team is lucky enough to develop one they aren't getting rid of him. I want a 900 ops player too! Can I get a toilet made of solid gold with that as well.
I don't think the Mets go for Kemp unless there's a huge discount Â
and that's doubtful since he's had a good year at the plate. He's destined to go to an AL franchise willing to take a that big of a financial gamble (Sox or Yankees).
Biggest guys I could see the Mets going for include: Stanton - the 1 player I think Sandy would move heaven and earth for, if he hits the market. Always a long shot to get the best power hitter in the game when he's 24 years old. Castro - think the Mets probably like him a lot and Cubs would move him, but Theo will want Thor/Wheeler/JdG and I don't see Sandy doing that. CarGo - this seems doable considering his value is down and the Rockies should be looking to dump the contract (Thor off the table). Would think there's some kind of a package deal with non-premium assets (Gee/Murphy/Montero/Flores types) that could get it done.
RE: RE: Mets need to stop with these reclaimation projects Â
and go and get themselves a guy who for the next 4 years you can be pretty darn sure will have a 900+ ops.
Sure but where are you getting this imaginary player? I swear people views of the leage are warped. There's next to no options available in free agency, the trade options like Cargo all have serious injuries, risk. Bats have become a rarity and if a team is lucky enough to develop one they aren't getting rid of him. I want a 900 ops player too! Can I get a toilet made of solid gold with that as well.
The Mets have a deep farm system. They can compete for Stanton if he is made available.
Nice to see Flores persevering though. I really don't get all the poo-pooing of Flores at SS. He's no Ozzie Smith out there but I'm certainly not uncomfortable with him at SS.
IDK. Maybe flip Murphy for Kemp with them eating a lot of his contract. Done deal. Keep all the pitching and the kids.
" Buster Olney ✔ @Buster_ESPN
Follow
To assess Matt Kemp's current value, asked 2 execs what they'd give him as a free agent today. 1st response:2 years, $16m; 2nd: 2 yrs, $15m."
Ken Rosenthal ✔ @Ken_Rosenthal
Follow
One GM said of Kemp, “he doesn’t add much value to any deal for us even at half his salary.” Kemp is owed about $114M.
Kemp is a DH shortly.
Linked below is the worst defensive OF's in terms of runs saved.. Kemp has allowed 26 runs that an average OF does not... second worst is Hunter... at 17
Link - ( New Window )
we might of found our lead off hitter
we might of found our lead off hitter
HH, you have to admit that's asking a lot to expect Legares to get on at a 350 clip consistently. Let's just be very happy with what he is. A young player who is developing into a really fun player to watch for hopefully a long time. Anything more than that is gravy.
" “You can’t play center field like he plays it, with that first step, and not be able to be a good baserunner — because this guy is daring, he’s got a great first step, he’s got great speed when he gets it going. But what we’ve got to do is get him to top speed faster. He shows it in the outfield. That’s why I say there’s no reason why he shouldn’t be able to do it” (Rubin, ESPN)."
After this year I view the best case with him to be a lot like Yadier Molina 5-6 years ago - an important defensive player who can stick in the lineup as long as he can be about average as a hitter, but upside to hopefully continue improving. Not saying he'll ever post any seasons with an .800+ OPS, but it also wouldn't shock me.
As long as Lagares is league-average I'm perfectly fine with him.
2. Dilson Herrera
3. David Wright
4. OF
5. Duda
6. d'Arnaud
7. Lagares
8. SS/OF
My only problem is that I'm a little leery of d'Arnaud's defense long term. And hopefully Wright will rebound otherwise we may need another 3rd place hitter.
Agreed he is more of a 7 hitter but I would rather see an eighth hitter that is more than a singles guy because Lagares can score from first on a double. His numbers have declined, but on a reasonable contract I would not be against having someone like Asdrubal Cabrera as an 8th hitter because he would be a threat to hit 35-40 doubles playing half of his games at Citi Field. The average and OBP suck but he can drive in someone like Lagares
I agree completely. Viewing Lagares' offense as anything more than gravy is asking for disappointment. Doesn't have the patience for the top of the lineup, nor the pop for the middle. 7-8 only until proven otherwise.
They absolutely need to add a 3 or 4 hitter this offseason to go with Duda and Wright. The only thing that might slightly change that reality is if they add a big time leadoff hitter, then perhaps they could settle for a short term mid-order guy like Cuddyer?
I probably shouldn't allow myself to do this, but I'm personally starting to hope for Stanton. Seems clear they still have a lot of friction there and his trade value will never be higher. The Mets have one of the few top systems (especially if you count some recent grads) that might have enough to get it done. Any 4 players under 25. He'd be a total game changer for this team.
That explains why you value Dickerson so highly. We all fall in love with a few players. And we also tend to overvalue those guys, whether they are on our team or we are envious he is on another. I personally love the way he would fit this Mets teams. I don't view him as a future superstar, a Yelich, but I think he will be a excellent player.
Entering September
Jason Heyward Braves 34
Juan Lagares Mets 30
Alex Gordon Royals 22
Andrelton Simmons Braves 22
Josh Donaldson Athletics 20
Zack Cozart Reds 20
If ever a team needed to start off a season well it will be the Mets next season. Expectations will be so high with Harvey coming back and with all these past seasons of losing they can't afford to get off to a slow start and once again dig a hole for themselves. They don't have the luxury of trading their best hitter because they simply don't have enough other guys on their roster who can hit.
Sure but where are you getting this imaginary player? I swear people views of the leage are warped. There's next to no options available in free agency, the trade options like Cargo all have serious injuries, risk. Bats have become a rarity and if a team is lucky enough to develop one they aren't getting rid of him. I want a 900 ops player too! Can I get a toilet made of solid gold with that as well.
Biggest guys I could see the Mets going for include:
Stanton - the 1 player I think Sandy would move heaven and earth for, if he hits the market. Always a long shot to get the best power hitter in the game when he's 24 years old.
Castro - think the Mets probably like him a lot and Cubs would move him, but Theo will want Thor/Wheeler/JdG and I don't see Sandy doing that.
CarGo - this seems doable considering his value is down and the Rockies should be looking to dump the contract (Thor off the table). Would think there's some kind of a package deal with non-premium assets (Gee/Murphy/Montero/Flores types) that could get it done.
Quote:
and go and get themselves a guy who for the next 4 years you can be pretty darn sure will have a 900+ ops.
Sure but where are you getting this imaginary player? I swear people views of the leage are warped. There's next to no options available in free agency, the trade options like Cargo all have serious injuries, risk. Bats have become a rarity and if a team is lucky enough to develop one they aren't getting rid of him. I want a 900 ops player too! Can I get a toilet made of solid gold with that as well.
The Mets have a deep farm system. They can compete for Stanton if he is made available.