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The brain damage issue is the biggest issue for the Giants

dibc : 9/1/2014 3:31 pm
and every other team in the league. And it's not close.

And before you complain about my repeating that line about it not being close - I used to post regularly and now I make about 5 football posts a year. Today happened to be my had to make 4 of them, and all of them all about the team and the sport. So really, nothing to complain about. Anyway, it's as good as 90% of the schtick I see here. And I have seen a lot here.

So here is my question - now that we KNOW that blows to the head give a significant chance of long-term brain damage, how do you justify watching the sport? (And I think the same thing about soccer and hockey, this is not just about football.) Should I give up watching the sport entirely? Is it going to come to that in the end for all of us? Can football ever be fixed to protect the head, and still be tackle football? I wonder if, a few years from now, all these sports are going to be consumed - financially, legally, morally, with this question.

Yes, I know the players "choose" to accept the risk, although I think for many of them it is not a very fair choice. But this is not about what they do - I don't control that directly - it's about "what should I do"? It's a serious matter for me - I am close to a number of young people who WILL play football no matter what I say.

There are some risks we just don't accept anymore in sport. We don't have real gladiators anymore - spears and swords are not acceptable. When does brain damage become unacceptable?

As for the argument that we have people do dangerous things in sport in place of real war and violence - check the newspapers. There's plenty of real war and violence.

Again, I am not a football hater. When I can tell you that Mark Bavaro fumbled later on in the game with "the catch" (and Bavaro just about never fumbled) - well, I probably love it too much, for whatever reason. So I want to know what you really think - what do we have to do about this? Or is there just no solution?
'blows to the head give a significant chance of long-term brain damage  
vibe4giants : 9/1/2014 3:43 pm : link
Which, in turn, can often lead to a sudden, random burst of posting?

Kind of a problem for this board, too.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/1/2014 3:44 pm : link
.
agree with your post  
aquidneck : 9/1/2014 3:44 pm : link
It - along with broader health concerns associated with playing football - is the biggest issue (I think the NFL game has been statistically proven to shorten lives) and I have no answer except to be conflicted as I watch it.

Glad Wilson got out without a tradgedy.
i justify it easily  
kepler20 : 9/1/2014 3:45 pm : link
These people make millions and are well aware of the risks involved.

They operate within an industry where the side effects of football are well known, before and after the lawsuits wrt to concussions came.

It's really no different than asking a logger if he knows that if his harness snaps he will probably never walk again. Or if a coal miner knows if his risk of lung cancer is x% higher than the national average. Or if a cop knows that a drug bust gone wrong could mean a shootout.

standard occupational hazard. Except these guys are all making 500k minimum.
brain damage  
Dylan fan : 9/1/2014 3:54 pm : link
kepler just nailed it. How about we do away with all jobs, sports & activities that have safety hazards? There wouldn't be many jobs, sports or recreational activities left. Boxing has been known to cause brain damage far longer than football & it's still around.

Living is a safety hazard. Every day anyone wakes up they are at risk of getting killed or injured. Cope with it & get on with your life or commit suicide if you can't cope that much. That's the only other way you can be assured you won't have to worry about anyone getting killed or injured any more.
It would be no different  
Rob in NYC : 9/1/2014 3:54 pm : link
If any if the examples that you offered were purely for entertainment.
I have a feeling you know about brain damage first hand  
Gman11 : 9/1/2014 3:56 pm : link
.
Look. People failing the fact that football players are not  
kickerpa16 : 9/1/2014 3:56 pm : link
fully compensated for the risks that they take.

Go figure...
To OP,  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/1/2014 4:01 pm : link
I'll continue to watch because I want to watch. Football players don't have to play, if they don't want.
...  
Rocky Thompson : 9/1/2014 4:01 pm : link
...
Link - ( New Window )
What about kids?  
rob13934 : 9/1/2014 4:02 pm : link
Should kids be banned playing football? If we know there is a chance our kids might have some long term mental damage, even if the chances are small?

I grew up playing football and took some shots. Though my career ended in highschool. I came out no worse for wear.

Was I and everyone I know that played lucky? I am friends with some D1 football players and the same, no worse from wear at this moment. Though we don't know the future.

Are all these studies slanting the information on brain damage associated with football....I'd guess yes. However, there is a correlation to head damage with any physical sport.

As a parent, I know the risks associated with the game. However, I love the sport and If my son wants to play I'd be all for it. In fact a part of me hopes he will want to play.

Does that make me a bad parent?





The NFL makes billions of dollars every year  
mrvax : 9/1/2014 4:23 pm : link
One thing that could help is by the NFL setting down several million dollars to fund helmet research.

It would be good for the players and good PR for the NFL.
Something Else Not Even Close: My Nose  
clatterbuck : 9/1/2014 4:25 pm : link
from the rest of my face. And that I can prove.
RE: 'blows to the head give a significant chance of long-term brain damage  
Great White Ghost : 9/1/2014 4:27 pm : link
In comment 11836164 vibe4giants said:
Quote:
Which, in turn, can often lead to a sudden, random burst of posting?
I had always wondered what was behind your posting....
RE: RE: 'blows to the head give a significant chance of long-term brain damage  
BrettNYG10 : 9/1/2014 4:37 pm : link
In comment 11836214 Great White Ghost said:
Quote:
In comment 11836164 vibe4giants said:


Quote:


Which, in turn, can often lead to a sudden, random burst of posting?


I had always wondered what was behind your posting....


Lulz.
Ill take a few blows to the head for  
Shockwave : 9/1/2014 4:40 pm : link
4 million a year...If you wouldn't then you are obviously suffering from previous blows to the head
Why players accept this risk is one question.  
81_Great_Dane : 9/1/2014 4:40 pm : link
Why we watch them is another.

Now that I'm aware that routine blocking and tackling condemn many players to a future of brain damage, I've had to admit that continuing to watch the game -- until this problem is solved -- is immoral. I've made peace with that and I'm watching it anyway, and forgiving myself.

If there's a God, and I have to stand before Him on that fateful day, I doubt it will be the worst thing I have to answer for -- but I'm guessing the hours I spent watching football won't help get me into heaven.


Hey, you made Brett laugh.  
vibe4giants : 9/1/2014 4:41 pm : link
So you hit the sweet-spot of your target audience there: thirteen year old boys.

(I'd say NTTAWT but, of course, there is.)
RE: Hey, you made Brett laugh.  
BrettNYG10 : 9/1/2014 4:55 pm : link
In comment 11836232 vibe4giants said:
Quote:
So you hit the sweet-spot of your target audience there: thirteen year old boys.

(I'd say NTTAWT but, of course, there is.)


Hey now...
I'm just saying, when he offers you a private BBI meet up  
vibe4giants : 9/1/2014 5:00 pm : link
so he can tell you more funny jokes, be wary.
"Everybody  
AcidTest : 9/1/2014 5:02 pm : link
said the stork was brain damaged."
RE: The NFL makes billions of dollars every year  
Jimmy Googs : 9/1/2014 5:17 pm : link
In comment 11836208 mrvax said:
Quote:
One thing that could help is by the NFL setting down several million dollars to fund helmet research.

It would be good for the players and good PR for the NFL.


The NFL is doing certain concussion/head injury research. It was part of the lawsuit settlement in 2013 (i think).
re: The brain damage issue is the bigest issue for the Giants  
Mad Mike : 9/1/2014 5:19 pm : link
dibc said:
Quote:
Should I give up watching the sport entirely?

Probably the best way to take a stand against this issue is for you to give up posting about the sport entirely.
To the OP...  
Jimmy Googs : 9/1/2014 5:26 pm : link
you should definitely stop watching tackle football if it gives you this much concern.

Head-related injuries won't go away altogether in this type of sport, but hopefully new equipment research, proper tackling techniques and penalties/fines do something to lessen the instances.
When he said  
COLT46 : 9/1/2014 5:36 pm : link
brain damaged, I thought he was talking about Reuben Randle again.
RE: What about kids?  
kepler20 : 9/1/2014 6:09 pm : link
In comment 11836191 rob13934 said:
Quote:
Should kids be banned playing football? If we know there is a chance our kids might have some long term mental damage, even if the chances are small?

I grew up playing football and took some shots. Though my career ended in highschool. I came out no worse for wear.

Was I and everyone I know that played lucky? I am friends with some D1 football players and the same, no worse from wear at this moment. Though we don't know the future.

Are all these studies slanting the information on brain damage associated with football....I'd guess yes. However, there is a correlation to head damage with any physical sport.

As a parent, I know the risks associated with the game. However, I love the sport and If my son wants to play I'd be all for it. In fact a part of me hopes he will want to play.

Does that make me a bad parent?






Personally, it is my belief, that if you allow your child to engage in contact sports where head trauma can be inflicted regularly on the playing field, I 100% think you are a poor parent and irresponsible. That's my personal belief. There are lots of decisions as a parent you make for your child that just goes-- no explaining needed; this is one of them for me.

If/when I have children, they wont be allowed to play football before highschool. If they are serious about football, I am positive I can find them professional training off the field to prepare them before highschool. I wont allow them to head the ball in practice with any sort of serious velocity if they play soccer.

Although children are small, and head trauma can be tied to f=ma, meaning the mass x acceleration, it doesnt preclude damage because the forces are so low. Watching peewee football is as awkward as it gets; a bunch of ducklings with bobbleheads.
Rumor has it , there is technology  
chiro56 : 9/1/2014 6:24 pm : link
Right now in helmet development that would all but eliminate concussions and damage to the brain. The NFL is not anxious to use it because it would entail softer helmets which would completely absorb the energy of the impact but the sound of impact would be less dramatic and may take away from the drama of the sport. But if it continues to be a problem they may not have a choice
Permission  
BigBlueCane : 9/1/2014 6:29 pm : link
slips to play football coming soon.
What about MMA and boxing  
giantgiantfan : 9/1/2014 6:40 pm : link
we watch those too. The NFL really should dump money into researching better helmets and concussion prevention. Should also setup a head injury fund for retired players to help subsidize medical treatment. But like others said, current players are well aware of the risks.
Impossible to prevent concussions...  
Shockwave : 9/1/2014 7:01 pm : link
Our brain is not stabilized inside our skull, its floating around. No matter what we do on the outside of the skull the brain will continue to move on the inside of the skull. Sure we can minimize it..But really the only way is to have gigantic helmets. Like HUGE..and im not talking about that kicker or whoever has been where that larger than average one the last couple years.

Just say screw it, make the field huge like a soccer field and make it flag football.
RE: The NFL makes billions of dollars every year  
Montreal Man : 9/1/2014 8:00 pm : link
In comment 11836208 mrvax said:
Quote:
One thing that could help is by the NFL setting down several million dollars to fund helmet research.

It would be good for the players and good PR for the NFL.


I'm for good and great helmet research. But the problem is that the brain bounces around inside the skull when the head gets hit. No matter how great a helmet is, a bang on the head causes the INTERIOR of the brain to move and probably hit itself against the skull.

Given that, I just don't know if anything can be done about this problem.
Shockwave  
Montreal Man : 9/1/2014 8:03 pm : link
Didn't see your post. We talked about the same thing.
RE: RE: What about kids?  
Jimmy Googs : 9/1/2014 8:25 pm : link
In comment 11836332 kepler20 said:
Quote:
In comment 11836191 rob13934 said:


Quote:


Should kids be banned playing football? If we know there is a chance our kids might have some long term mental damage, even if the chances are small?

I grew up playing football and took some shots. Though my career ended in highschool. I came out no worse for wear.

Was I and everyone I know that played lucky? I am friends with some D1 football players and the same, no worse from wear at this moment. Though we don't know the future.

Are all these studies slanting the information on brain damage associated with football....I'd guess yes. However, there is a correlation to head damage with any physical sport.

As a parent, I know the risks associated with the game. However, I love the sport and If my son wants to play I'd be all for it. In fact a part of me hopes he will want to play.

Does that make me a bad parent?








Personally, it is my belief, that if you allow your child to engage in contact sports where head trauma can be inflicted regularly on the playing field, I 100% think you are a poor parent and irresponsible. That's my personal belief. There are lots of decisions as a parent you make for your child that just goes-- no explaining needed; this is one of them for me.


My son just started 4th grade and is now playing tackle football for the first time. Sorry to disappoint you as a parent.

It does make me feel a little better though that you disappoint me as a BBI poster.
RE: RE: RE: What about kids?  
kepler20 : 9/1/2014 9:23 pm : link
In comment 11836541 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 11836332 kepler20 said:


Quote:


In comment 11836191 rob13934 said:


Quote:


Should kids be banned playing football? If we know there is a chance our kids might have some long term mental damage, even if the chances are small?

I grew up playing football and took some shots. Though my career ended in highschool. I came out no worse for wear.

Was I and everyone I know that played lucky? I am friends with some D1 football players and the same, no worse from wear at this moment. Though we don't know the future.

Are all these studies slanting the information on brain damage associated with football....I'd guess yes. However, there is a correlation to head damage with any physical sport.

As a parent, I know the risks associated with the game. However, I love the sport and If my son wants to play I'd be all for it. In fact a part of me hopes he will want to play.

Does that make me a bad parent?








Personally, it is my belief, that if you allow your child to engage in contact sports where head trauma can be inflicted regularly on the playing field, I 100% think you are a poor parent and irresponsible. That's my personal belief. There are lots of decisions as a parent you make for your child that just goes-- no explaining needed; this is one of them for me.




My son just started 4th grade and is now playing tackle football for the first time. Sorry to disappoint you as a parent.

It does make me feel a little better though that you disappoint me as a BBI poster.


no, no offense taken, seriously. It's your decision to make, not mine.
There's no way I can forsee a helmet preventing the brain from moving  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/1/2014 9:26 pm : link
inside the skull. That's the problem. You suffer a shock significant enough to defeat the brain's safety net.

Did OP visit reddit?  
TheBigBlueOne : 9/1/2014 11:56 pm : link
I wouldn't be surprised if blows to the head weren't the biggest  
Matt M. : 9/2/2014 1:00 am : link
contributor. Equally as likely or more likely are hits that cause the head to slam the turf. Also, just hard hits with the offensive player running straight ahead and the defender hitting him head on. It jolts the head back violently, which cause the brain to slam the front of the skull.
....  
SamTheTram : 9/2/2014 8:23 am : link
"Yes, I know the players "choose" to accept the risk, although I think for many of them it is not a very fair choice."

How so?

A lot of these guys get free rides to college where they can major in anything they want in order to earn a salary they can support a family on. That's already a head start on 90% of America.

I feel sorry for the older players. The information back than was scarce. Anyone going in now knows full well the risks. They also know that even on a practice squad they'd probably earn double the salary of that first post college career job.

kepler20  
Headhunter : 9/2/2014 8:34 am : link
Do society a favor, don't reproduce, we are dumbed down enough and don't need you adding to the gene pool producing additional future failure legacies
Hammer  
Matt M. : 9/2/2014 11:01 am : link
Your last post is exactly right, which is one reason I said I don't think blows to the head are necessarily the culprit. At the very least, they aren't the only thing to examine. The issue is force of hits that violently shake and rattle the brain to point where it crashes inside the skull. No helmet prevents that.
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