He's already shown more than some of the trash on practice squads. He should have held up a bank of beat a woman instead of being gay - he'd be on a roster.
He's already shown more than some of the trash on practice squads. He should have held up a bank of beat a woman instead of being gay - he'd be on a roster.
He's already shown more than some of the trash on practice squads. He should have held up a bank of beat a woman instead of being gay - he'd be on a roster.
to make an NFL roster, either as a back up pass rushing specialist or a practice squad player. He happened to be drafted by one of the few teams that didn't have a need for his skills.
He's already shown more than some of the trash on practice squads. He should have held up a bank of beat a woman instead of being gay - he'd be on a roster.
1000% agreed.
Ask Prince Shembo what the consequences are.
And now I have to reconsider.
so an alleged rapist, a dead girl can't supersede your hatred for me?
He's already shown more than some of the trash on practice squads. He should have held up a bank of beat a woman instead of being gay - he'd be on a roster.
1000% agreed.
Ask Prince Shembo what the consequences are.
And now I have to reconsider.
so an alleged rapist, a dead girl can't supersede your hatred for me?
He's already shown more than some of the trash on practice squads. He should have held up a bank of beat a woman instead of being gay - he'd be on a roster.
1000% agreed.
Ask Prince Shembo what the consequences are.
And now I have to reconsider.
LMAO
I watched game film of Sam (damn I sound like Jaworski)
this preseason and thought he did OK. Not great, but I thought he looked like he belongs. I can't imagine he wouldn't be a ST contributor and situational pass rusher, but you can say that about a lot of players on the outside looking in.
Oh come on. The guy is the first openly gay male athlete to be drafted by any major American sport team, was he not? He'd be just another shlub getting cut if he were straight (or closeted).
All the extra coverage around him is because of his orientation. Even if he didn't talk about all the other projects he wanted to do after he was drafted, he'd still be front page news for a long while. (We're still making new movies about Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier). Espn reporting on the guy's showering habits is a sideshow for any locker room.
Oh, and the refrain that he was Sec defensive player of the year = nfl quality is bullshit. Big fucking deal. Those awards are given to more players who will never make it in the pros, than the ones who do make it. Two words, Ron Dayne.
-
Now, if the guy is blackballed around the league, despite showing some pro level skills, then maybe start talking about something insidious.
and can play 10-15 snaps per game on a team without a good pass rush as a situational defensive end. It's embarrassing if no NFL team signs him at least to a PS
I like Sam and I think he looked pretty good in the preseason...
good enough to get a practice squad spot. But I wouldn't doubt that it's a consideration, not so much bigotry but the sheer idiocy of ESPN trying to get a load of your team's showering habits. This came up on the other thread. If it's a choice between two comparable defensive ends and one comes with more attached cameramen than Ichiro Suzuki, and with scrutiny over any roster decision you make that implicates him, you can understand why they might go for the other.
I saw what FMM saw above, but SEC Defensive Player of the Year on its face doesn't equate to pro success or even a roster spot. In fact, it illustrates the size of the leap to pro competition.
It's a 7th round pick getting cut, not claimed, and not making a PS
Lache Seastrunk is a 2014 6th round pick who got cut, unclaimed, and hasn't made a PS yet. They'll both find some place I'm sure.
Listen, if you're a fringe guy...you need to be versatile. If you have nothing to offer on special teams, you're useless. It's not as if Michael Sam is a high upside guy to stash.
Does him being gay have something to do with it? I really don't think so. I find it silly though that the Rams would go through the process of drafting him and taking this all on, to not want him on their practice squad because he's gay. That's beyond silly.
Now maybe another GM might not want him, but not directly because he's gay. But because he doesn't want to deal with all the media attention for a PS squad guy. It's not fair, but it's reality.
but after seeing him last year and knowing that he got drafted (albeit late), it is questionable why he can't even seem to make anybody's practice squad.
very questionable...
I don't doubt being gay is an issue for some teams
teams I'm sure don't want a gay player. Others would be OK with it, but consider it a distraction. On playing ability alone, he showed enough in the preseason to warrant a PS spot.
Along with his reported lack of versatility, his tweener game, lack of AA, etc. If he's a 4-3 DE, it eliminates half the NFL, for example.
^ this. After the huge stink made about the Rams not retaining him, I went out and found some of his plays online. He really did nothing to stand out. He wasn't terrible, but he was like a lot of other guys that get lost in the wash this time of year - he was ordinary and limited and did nothing special to help his case.
If anything, making a federal case of him not finding a spot does a disservice to other gay athletes, because it implies that they deserve some sort of special consideration or that not retaining their services implies discrimination.
It is news, and teams will take it into consideration.
StL would have been perfect as he was known in the area, mid-market coverage, outstanding line to develop with, etc.
Jeff Fisher made a comment early on that he hadn't seen a media throng following a player like they were Sam. So there are tangible accoutrements that will follow Sam around wherever he lands that I'm sure 32/32 teams would prefer to avoid.
It's unavoidable, however, and some team will pick him up and deal with the circus. And any criticism will only be seen through a light of intolerance.
Can anybody say he is being blackballed he was drafted he is just another guy who is not athletic enough to make a roster just like another 1000 guys that have tried this year.
playing next to black players. Distractions and such. Also, "Shower-gate" was a blessing in disguise, exposing ESPN for the trash they are. ESPN is so rotten they can't do news anymore even when they want to. And it was classy the way that they offered up a rare female career in sports media to the ratings gods with that report.
The team would draft him knowing full and well that he's gay, but cut him and not let him on his PS because he's gay?
Legitimate question. Don't know if the league put pressure on for someone to draft him with the understanding that they wouldn't 't have to keep him, and the Rams drew the short straw. The league being concerned of being exposed to possible legal action .
Why is there a need to find a list when you can just look at an example that is happening at the exact same time but no one gives a shit about? You didn't know about Lache Seastrunk because it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal because it's common.
I'm sure Michael Sam will find a PS somewhere, just because it wasn't right away doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
Along with his reported lack of versatility, his tweener game, lack of AA, etc. If he's a 4-3 DE, it eliminates half the NFL, for example.
^ this. After the huge stink made about the Rams not retaining him, I went out and found some of his plays online. He really did nothing to stand out. He wasn't terrible, but he was like a lot of other guys that get lost in the wash this time of year - he was ordinary and limited and did nothing special to help his case.
If anything, making a federal case of him not finding a spot does a disservice to other gay athletes, because it implies that they deserve some sort of special consideration or that not retaining their services implies discrimination.
So not retaining their services excludes discrimination ?
He had three sacks and 11 tackles in the preseason. Can't believe that doesn't warrant his inclusion as one of the 300 PS players. Were it not for his SO.
Just randomly look at the sixth and seventh rounds of the draft
Yawin Smallwood was a seventh who was cut by Atlanta and is a free agent now. I'm sure the list is much larger, but Sam is by no means the only draft pick to not find a home yet.
I just went through the first 15 guys from the bottom of the draft up
has Michael Sam's spot as a developmental DE project with the Giants.
I think a lot of the NFL hierarchy is even less enlightened than it appears, and within the teams, even more so. The players probably have less trouble with Sam being gay than coaches, GMs and owners, who are from a different generation and aren't used to working with guys who are openly gay.
In my business, I've been working with openly gay men since college. It stopped being a thing around 1980. But a lot of guys my age don't feel that way at all.
Zero versatility. Not big enough or strong enough to play inside, not fluid enough to play OLB, regardless of the base defense. Didn't play special teams for the Rams, and he wouldn't play them anywhere else. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
Eventually, a blue-chip college prospect who's openly gay will declare for the draft and no one will think twice about drafting him, keeping him, and playing him. I applaud Michael Sam for having the courage to come out, but the bottom line is that he's just not that good.
RE: I just went through the first 15 guys from the bottom of the draft up
Lots of guys recorded sacks in the pre-season (some multiple), but none received the national attention that the media gave Michael Sams for one sack. The media has made a circus side attraction out of the guy simply because he is gay. Thats a distraction I believe most teams dont want.
disguise alien impostors if ETs could help them win games. Just about showering with a gay guy. How about showering as a straight male cop with some stacked female cops? Is that valid? How would that go over? Or I guess a straight football player showering with an otherwise totally gay team? We had a gay guy on our team. This guy had a tent in his towel every now & then. Was that an intrusion? Just wondering.
There are not enough spots on an NfL roster to keep all of your
Before michael sam makes a roster and appears in a game that counts, who is really the first openly gay nfl player? Do we still give it to sam? Judges? .....
Before michael sam makes a roster and appears in a game that counts, who is really the first openly gay nfl player? Do we still give it to sam? Judges? .....
McNabb?
RE: Giants have to sign some Tight Ends to the PS first
Before michael sam makes a roster and appears in a game that counts, who is really the first openly gay nfl player? Do we still give it to sam? Judges? .....
Darrelle Revis would then reign supreme. Sorry, Sam, at least you got the ESPY doe...
WWE announced on Monday night's edition of RAW that the company has invited Michael Sam, the first openly gay player to be drafted by the NFL, to next week's broadcast.
It was also announced that if Sam accepts WWE's invitation, they will give him an "open microphone" to tell his side of the story over recent events involving him, including being recently cut by the St. Louis Rams.
Multiple sources are suggesting that WWE is making the move due to the company going head-to-head with an NFL double-header next week.
except that he was SEC Def player of the year and had 3 sacks in the pre-season, I'd be very surpised he didn't make a PS somewhere. He may be one dimensional, but in the NFL sacking the QB is a highly prized dimension. You show patience with guys who might turn into a quality pass rusher.
a guy that can help him win on his team. He also is not the kind of guy to keep someone who is not going to help him win. He said that the decision to cut Sam "wasn't close". After drafting him.
So the team that saw him up close doesn't want him.
Hopefully he gets picked up by someone else. Sounds like he is a real long shot to have a significant NFL career -- irrespective of his sexual preference.
who took a crappy 1-4 team to the playoffs, passed for 316 yards in a playoff win against the Steelers, and then never was given a chance to start another game in the NFL? Is he being black balled?? All he does is win, albeit unconventionally.
and Ron Dayne won the Heisman Trophy. College is college, the pros are the pros.
whatever the merits of the Sam situation, I don't get the Dayne comparison. Dayne was a #1 draft pick and never spent time on a practice squad, much less unemployed until after he'd been in the NFL for a while. Sam is not even on a practice squad (the point of the debate).
and Ron Dayne won the Heisman Trophy. College is college, the pros are the pros.
whatever the merits of the Sam situation, I don't get the Dayne comparison. Dayne was a #1 draft pick and never spent time on a practice squad, much less unemployed until after he'd been in the NFL for a while. Sam is not even on a practice squad (the point of the debate).
I made a Ron dayne reference as well. I can only speak for myself in saying that the reference was to the fact that past performance does not guarantee future results and not all college football awards translate to nfl success. Used in the context to contest the argument that Sam being the co-sec defensive player of the year somehow means anything at the professional level.
And I don't mean in that in the way some do. I know Sam being the first openly gay player in the NFL is a big deal, even if I know that it shouldn't be.
What I mean is, I don't know why so many are so quick to label the situation; whether it be the narrative of bigotry or the narrative of a fringe player whose "baggage" isn't worth what his on-field production could potentially be.
Sam's story, like all other players in his position (regardless of orientation), is far from over. There are a lot of ways this could go. He could find himself on an NFL squad, out of a job, in the booth, in the arena league, etc.
There will be a time to label the Michael Sam story as "this" or "that," but today is not even close to that day. Same could wind up on a roster tomorrow and all of this speculation will seem very wasteful.
RE: RE: I just went through the first 15 guys from the bottom of the draft up
I'm sure it's double digits of the amount of draftees that got cut and haven't made a PS yet from this year alone.
Nice job man. Thanks for looking because the population you have found makes this situation look much better. Facts always help...
I wonder how many SEC DPOY got drafted later than the first 3 rds? Because ya know, I wonder if his draft position had anything to do with his orientation.
But our formerly own kelcey quarles was first team SEC and second team all-American at points n his career and also went undrafted. Also, I think in both cases, not making the 53 sort provides their draft position, or lack of draft position in Quarles case, was correct.
If this kid was the second coming of Lawrence Taylor (underaged prostitutes and all) he'd be on a roster somewhere.
This is the league that took back a federal criminal who was accused of electrocuting dogs for fun and profit. There were plenty of protests, and plenty of negative media focus to go with it. The same circus, if not worse. The difference? Vick was still considered a difference maker in this league, whereas Sam is a guy nobody expects to ever amount to much more than an average player.
Is he paying the price for coming out? If he is, it's probably not hurting him all that much. He likely went from marginal bottom of the roster/PS squad player to unemployed. A shame that it counts against him at all, but let's not pretend like he was blacklisted because of his orientation. It's mostly because he just isn't that good.
from before the draft, you'd see that's he never really was projected to be a high draft pick. 6th or 7th round or free agent signing is how most sites had him projected. I guess they're all bigots too? Jeezus people, take a deep breath.
Said one thing holding Sam back from being a reserve/PS player is that he doesn't contribute on STs. So take that into consideration. And remember, just because he hasn't been signed yet doesn't mean he won't be signed during the season.
comparison is pretty straightforward - college achievements do not always guarantee nfl success. Dayne achieved even more success in college and he had a bad nfl career. and he probably was kept around because of the investment.
Are we going to see a thread started for every rookie that was cut and not picked up for a Practice Squad? That would keep ODBeast typing for quite a while.
Two-time first team All-American (once as a unanimous pick) and Big 10 defensive player of the year? He was a 6th round pick and the only reason he ever made an NFL roster is because he was a solid special teams player, and even that only kept him in the league for a year or so.
And was pretty consistently terrible. The comparison is a solid one - there are a couple of options for drafting in the late rounds - good athletes with questionable production for any of a number of reasons, small school guys with questions about competition, or guys like Jones and Sam - major programs, accolades and production, but questions about next-level athleticism.
Jones also had flashed a bit, leaving you with some hope
It's not fair to Sam, but that's going to be a factor for a lot of teams, just as it became a major reason why Tebow is out of football completely. Tebow's not a good QB, but are you telling me that he flat-out doesn't belong in the NFL when a complete zero like Dan Orlovski hangs around for years? The point is that marginal players who are at the center of a media circus won't be worth the trouble to most teams.
Let's not forget that Sam shared it with C.J. Mosley, and you can make a case that Mosley should have won it outright. Yes, Sam had 11.5 sacks to none for Mosley, and 19 TFLs to Mosley's nine, but Mosley had twice as many solo tackles as Sam - 62 to 31 - and more than twice as many total tackles - 108 to 48. Mosley also had five PDefs and forced one fumble. Sam forced two fumbles.
You can also make a case that Sam was a one-year-wonder. He put up better numbers in his senior year than in his freshman, sophomore, and junior years combined. Mosley, on the other hand, was a force to be reckoned with from the get-go, and stayed that way in his four years at Alabama.
That could be one reason why Mosley was a 1st Round pick (#17 overall), like many other SEC DPOY award winners, while Sam didn't go until the 7th Round. Recently, Charlie Casserly said that Mosley could very well be the rookie DPOY, but that Sam might be better off in the CFL.
I could not believe how bad his throws were during his last season. Worst accuracy in the league.
It wasn't just that, it was also the fact that he was reluctant to change to another position. His insistence to be a QB, along with his mediocre passing skills and the media circus that followed him were all elements in his demise.
That it validated my decision to not pay much attention to College Football. That may change now that they have a playoff, but I definitely remember watching him and thinking, "THAT guy was the best player in college football?!?!!"
Said one thing holding Sam back from being a reserve/PS player is that he doesn't contribute on STs. So take that into consideration. And remember, just because he hasn't been signed yet doesn't mean he won't be signed during the season.
to follow up on that, heard about the same today.
Teams are looking for Swiss army knifes right now.
Players not only at their position, but guys who can play on multiple special team units as well as well as being adequate for a few scout team positions.
He got drafted where he should have been drafted and given a shot.
Damn near everyone drafted won an award in college. that and $1.00 buys you a coffee the next level
Really does make a difference. It sounds like an unusual stance for a rookie to take. To my knowledge, most of the Giants' draft picks had to play specials in their rookie year, even guys like JPP.
the SEC DPOY award is nothing but another data point to consider.
None of us are NFL personnel guys, so we're really not qualified to state one way or another whether his orientation has anything to do with his draft position or why he isn't on a roster.
Saying that only one other player that was SEC DPOY has EVER been drafted later than the 3rd round is something to consider. It certainly doesn't prove anything. It is an odd data point to consider, however.
The reason I brought it up was because people were talking about all of the late round picks that haven't made a roster and how many...blah, blah. This assumes that where he was drafted is correct.
Also, saying that since he isn't on a roster that he was drafted in the correct spot is somewhat circular reasoning unless you're completely dismissing his orientation having an influence.
And also consider that draft position has an influence on whether or not a player is cut. How much of an influence? Who really knows?
Again, I don't know either way. I would like to think that his orientation had nothing to do with either his draft position or him being cut. Unfortunately, humans are generally a lot shittier towards one another than I give them credit for.
And also consider that draft position has an influence on whether or not a player is cut. How much of an influence? Who really knows?
For guys drafted in the 6th and especially the 7th round it doesn't have much bearing. The Rams cut all 4 of their 7th round picks. The Giants cut their 6th round pick, etc.
Just spent 10 mins reviewing this thread. Three things:
1) What AnotherGiantsFan said.
2) I can't be certain as there has been a lot of competition over the years, but I'm pretty sure this thread is top 5 all time for stupidity.
3) Can I get the last 10 mins of my life back?
that Sam knew he was a marginal talent ahead of time and used his orientation to improve his chances of sticking with an NFL team? Seems like a contrary position but given the media outpouring, the pressure on Jeff Fischer to keep him has been considerable.
that Sam knew he was a marginal talent ahead of time and used his orientation to improve his chances of sticking with an NFL team? Seems like a contrary position but given the media outpouring, the pressure on Jeff Fischer to keep him has been considerable.
Whether it is this site, on espn, at the water cooler, or at the dining room table, this kid has become a cause and it's an unneeded one.
I don't care who you fuck, if you contribute positively to the bottom line based on merit, you will find a job in pretty much any organization in the civilized world. I'm sure even the kkk, Mara salvatrucha, and Vladimir Putin have gay grand poobahs in the ranks.
Are we to believe that there haven't been openly (or closeted) gay and lesbian employees of these teams? Front office, players, human resources, equipment and locker room personnel. Coaches and Personal trainers, doctors, specialists, masseuses, nutritionists, chefs, lawyers, publicists, stylists, club hosts, maitre ds, hotel staff, live in help, assistants, teachers, accountants, agents, rock stars, celebrities, hangers on, drivers, lackeys, accomplices, boys for life, friends forever, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers, lovers and children.
Should we be so naive as to think that owners of franchises don't have gay family members or may be gay themselves? In all of pro sports?
Bullshit.
Michael Sam seems to be a great kid with a loving and supportive family. His teammates and coaches at Miz supported him and are proud to be his teammate. He has a boyfriend and says they're happy and in love. He was drafted in the seventh round of the nfl draft by the St. Louis rams. He was given an opportunity to show his stuff as a pro football player on an nfl field. If a team has a need, he'll get a shot. He's now a phone call away from another chance to make an nfl squad. And he's barely sprouted pubes. That's nothing short of remarkable.
A lot of things go into the decision of signing any player to your organization. This is a bottom line business. If you produce and add value where teams need it, you find a home. If you don't, you find other employment. This was the best summer job you could ever have with some good money and an opportunity to play elsewhere or leverage it into other opportunities.
Just stop the nonsense about his orientation already.
It's football season. He's a football player. That's it.
the guy was a 7th Round Draft Pick !!!! 7th rounders have a 50/50 chance at best of making it into the NFL. If the guy was a slam dunk then he would be playing for someone right now. In fact, it is possible that he would not have been drafted even if he wasn't gay and Fisher did the guy a favor by giving him a shot.
About the distraction comments. I don't think teams are shying away from him because he is gay. Nobody in the locker room will really care. The distraction is the MEDIA constantly asking the other players and coaches about it...every week. THAT is the distraction and the talent and output he brings to a team simply is not worth the media circus.
If he was Adrian Peterson and he was gay, then teams would be falling over each other to sign him.
Finally, it is fitting that Jerry Jones has interest in him because in Jerry's world, a media circus is just what the doctor ordered.
1000% agreed.
Ask Prince Shembo what the consequences are.
Quote:
He's already shown more than some of the trash on practice squads. He should have held up a bank of beat a woman instead of being gay - he'd be on a roster.
1000% agreed.
Ask Prince Shembo what the consequences are.
And now I have to reconsider.
He should find his way onto a roster somewhere.
Tim Tebow had a fairer shake than Sam has had, think about that.
making movie ....big distraction...for a non starter...
reese will offer him a cheap contract soon
Quote:
In comment 11836358 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
He's already shown more than some of the trash on practice squads. He should have held up a bank of beat a woman instead of being gay - he'd be on a roster.
1000% agreed.
Ask Prince Shembo what the consequences are.
And now I have to reconsider.
so an alleged rapist, a dead girl can't supersede your hatred for me?
despicable.
Quote:
In comment 11836363 kepler20 said:
Quote:
In comment 11836358 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
He's already shown more than some of the trash on practice squads. He should have held up a bank of beat a woman instead of being gay - he'd be on a roster.
1000% agreed.
Ask Prince Shembo what the consequences are.
And now I have to reconsider.
so an alleged rapist, a dead girl can't supersede your hatred for me?
despicable.
You are a very weird person.
making movie ....big distraction...for a non starter...
reese will offer him a cheap contract soon
Bullshit. There were no reports of him being a distraction in St. Louis.
Quote:
In comment 11836358 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
He's already shown more than some of the trash on practice squads. He should have held up a bank of beat a woman instead of being gay - he'd be on a roster.
1000% agreed.
Ask Prince Shembo what the consequences are.
And now I have to reconsider.
LMAO
This is why the NFL needs a developmental league.
[quote] Looked pretty good and disruptive on the field to me. [/quote
You need to mix in a few National Football Leagues into each sentence.
Oh come on. The guy is the first openly gay male athlete to be drafted by any major American sport team, was he not? He'd be just another shlub getting cut if he were straight (or closeted).
All the extra coverage around him is because of his orientation. Even if he didn't talk about all the other projects he wanted to do after he was drafted, he'd still be front page news for a long while. (We're still making new movies about Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier). Espn reporting on the guy's showering habits is a sideshow for any locker room.
Oh, and the refrain that he was Sec defensive player of the year = nfl quality is bullshit. Big fucking deal. Those awards are given to more players who will never make it in the pros, than the ones who do make it. Two words, Ron Dayne.
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Now, if the guy is blackballed around the league, despite showing some pro level skills, then maybe start talking about something insidious.
Didn't the NFL blackball Kerry Rhodes once those pics with some guy were taken? Rhodes was a good player and he wasn't signed by a team.
Lache Seastrunk is a 2014 6th round pick who got cut, unclaimed, and hasn't made a PS yet. They'll both find some place I'm sure.
Listen, if you're a fringe guy...you need to be versatile. If you have nothing to offer on special teams, you're useless. It's not as if Michael Sam is a high upside guy to stash.
Does him being gay have something to do with it? I really don't think so. I find it silly though that the Rams would go through the process of drafting him and taking this all on, to not want him on their practice squad because he's gay. That's beyond silly.
Now maybe another GM might not want him, but not directly because he's gay. But because he doesn't want to deal with all the media attention for a PS squad guy. It's not fair, but it's reality.
very questionable...
^ this. After the huge stink made about the Rams not retaining him, I went out and found some of his plays online. He really did nothing to stand out. He wasn't terrible, but he was like a lot of other guys that get lost in the wash this time of year - he was ordinary and limited and did nothing special to help his case.
If anything, making a federal case of him not finding a spot does a disservice to other gay athletes, because it implies that they deserve some sort of special consideration or that not retaining their services implies discrimination.
StL would have been perfect as he was known in the area, mid-market coverage, outstanding line to develop with, etc.
Jeff Fisher made a comment early on that he hadn't seen a media throng following a player like they were Sam. So there are tangible accoutrements that will follow Sam around wherever he lands that I'm sure 32/32 teams would prefer to avoid.
It's unavoidable, however, and some team will pick him up and deal with the circus. And any criticism will only be seen through a light of intolerance.
This would be interesting to see...
Quote:
Does anyone know over the past say 2 years or so how many draft picks have been cut and not made a practice squad?
This would be interesting to see...
I literally just named a guy from this same draft who was drafted a round earlier than Sam...
Lache Seastrunk
You guys only think this is unique because they aren't all over the news/interwebz.
Legitimate question. Don't know if the league put pressure on for someone to draft him with the understanding that they wouldn't 't have to keep him, and the Rams drew the short straw. The league being concerned of being exposed to possible legal action .
Shame, I think he has the talent to make it but being cut is not the end of the world. As long as he stays in game shape, he'll have a chance.
Why is there a need to find a list when you can just look at an example that is happening at the exact same time but no one gives a shit about? You didn't know about Lache Seastrunk because it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal because it's common.
I'm sure Michael Sam will find a PS somewhere, just because it wasn't right away doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
Quote:
Along with his reported lack of versatility, his tweener game, lack of AA, etc. If he's a 4-3 DE, it eliminates half the NFL, for example.
^ this. After the huge stink made about the Rams not retaining him, I went out and found some of his plays online. He really did nothing to stand out. He wasn't terrible, but he was like a lot of other guys that get lost in the wash this time of year - he was ordinary and limited and did nothing special to help his case.
If anything, making a federal case of him not finding a spot does a disservice to other gay athletes, because it implies that they deserve some sort of special consideration or that not retaining their services implies discrimination.
So not retaining their services excludes discrimination ?
He had three sacks and 11 tackles in the preseason. Can't believe that doesn't warrant his inclusion as one of the 300 PS players. Were it not for his SO.
Yawin Smallwood
Lavelle Westbrooks
Michael Sam
Jeremy Gallon
Tevin Reese
I'm sure it's double digits of the amount of draftees that got cut and haven't made a PS yet from this year alone.
Link - ( New Window )
I think a lot of the NFL hierarchy is even less enlightened than it appears, and within the teams, even more so. The players probably have less trouble with Sam being gay than coaches, GMs and owners, who are from a different generation and aren't used to working with guys who are openly gay.
In my business, I've been working with openly gay men since college. It stopped being a thing around 1980. But a lot of guys my age don't feel that way at all.
Eventually, a blue-chip college prospect who's openly gay will declare for the draft and no one will think twice about drafting him, keeping him, and playing him. I applaud Michael Sam for having the courage to come out, but the bottom line is that he's just not that good.
Yawin Smallwood
Lavelle Westbrooks
Michael Sam
Jeremy Gallon
Tevin Reese
I'm sure it's double digits of the amount of draftees that got cut and haven't made a PS yet from this year alone.
Nice job man. Thanks for looking because the population you have found makes this situation look much better. Facts always help...
Its also interesting because i figured it would be pretty rare that a draftee wouldn't make it to a practice squad (at least at first).
I could see instances of drugs or bad attitudes but still figured it was uncommon on raw talent.
He was a very talented football player that could make most teams starting roster or at least second string.
Now that dude was blackballed.
come on son
I wonder how many other DEs got cut who showed some ability - you think he's the only one struggling to make a roster?
Idonije is not on anyone's roster and he's a guy who has proven he can play in this league.
Could it be discrimination? I suppose, but you can't assume it has to because he's gay.
He's not a blazer off the edge. He might have to get stronger and start trying to make it as a 3-4 inside LB. And, not playing specials is huge.
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Its also interesting because i figured it would be pretty rare that a draftee wouldn't make it to a practice squad (at least at first).
I could see instances of drugs or bad attitudes but still figured it was uncommon on raw talent.
It's odd, but not unusual. At that point in the draft, you're basically just owning the rights to an UDFA. It's not exactly a big investment.
but it would blow over :)
pun intended or nah?
McNabb?
No, too easy. I'm not gonna bite.
Darrelle Revis would then reign supreme. Sorry, Sam, at least you got the ESPY doe...
And you have 11 draft picks
It was also announced that if Sam accepts WWE's invitation, they will give him an "open microphone" to tell his side of the story over recent events involving him, including being recently cut by the St. Louis Rams.
Multiple sources are suggesting that WWE is making the move due to the company going head-to-head with an NFL double-header next week.
So the team that saw him up close doesn't want him.
Hopefully he gets picked up by someone else. Sounds like he is a real long shot to have a significant NFL career -- irrespective of his sexual preference.
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and then you add in possible distractions... no thanks
Tim Tebow had a fairer shake than Sam has had, think about that.
You mean Tim Tebow the Heisman trophy winner, national champion, and first round draft pick? Yea, what a double standard
whatever the merits of the Sam situation, I don't get the Dayne comparison. Dayne was a #1 draft pick and never spent time on a practice squad, much less unemployed until after he'd been in the NFL for a while. Sam is not even on a practice squad (the point of the debate).
if Sam played TE which are in short supply these days
then he probably makes the team
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and Ron Dayne won the Heisman Trophy. College is college, the pros are the pros.
whatever the merits of the Sam situation, I don't get the Dayne comparison. Dayne was a #1 draft pick and never spent time on a practice squad, much less unemployed until after he'd been in the NFL for a while. Sam is not even on a practice squad (the point of the debate).
I made a Ron dayne reference as well. I can only speak for myself in saying that the reference was to the fact that past performance does not guarantee future results and not all college football awards translate to nfl success. Used in the context to contest the argument that Sam being the co-sec defensive player of the year somehow means anything at the professional level.
Jason White
What I mean is, I don't know why so many are so quick to label the situation; whether it be the narrative of bigotry or the narrative of a fringe player whose "baggage" isn't worth what his on-field production could potentially be.
Sam's story, like all other players in his position (regardless of orientation), is far from over. There are a lot of ways this could go. He could find himself on an NFL squad, out of a job, in the booth, in the arena league, etc.
There will be a time to label the Michael Sam story as "this" or "that," but today is not even close to that day. Same could wind up on a roster tomorrow and all of this speculation will seem very wasteful.
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And found 5 guys who are currently unemployed.
Yawin Smallwood
Lavelle Westbrooks
Michael Sam
Jeremy Gallon
Tevin Reese
I'm sure it's double digits of the amount of draftees that got cut and haven't made a PS yet from this year alone.
Nice job man. Thanks for looking because the population you have found makes this situation look much better. Facts always help...
I wonder how many SEC DPOY got drafted later than the first 3 rds? Because ya know, I wonder if his draft position had anything to do with his orientation.
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I disagree. If a good player comes out, he'll be drafted and stick IMO.
This is the league that took back a federal criminal who was accused of electrocuting dogs for fun and profit. There were plenty of protests, and plenty of negative media focus to go with it. The same circus, if not worse. The difference? Vick was still considered a difference maker in this league, whereas Sam is a guy nobody expects to ever amount to much more than an average player.
Is he paying the price for coming out? If he is, it's probably not hurting him all that much. He likely went from marginal bottom of the roster/PS squad player to unemployed. A shame that it counts against him at all, but let's not pretend like he was blacklisted because of his orientation. It's mostly because he just isn't that good.
You can also make a case that Sam was a one-year-wonder. He put up better numbers in his senior year than in his freshman, sophomore, and junior years combined. Mosley, on the other hand, was a force to be reckoned with from the get-go, and stayed that way in his four years at Alabama.
That could be one reason why Mosley was a 1st Round pick (#17 overall), like many other SEC DPOY award winners, while Sam didn't go until the 7th Round. Recently, Charlie Casserly said that Mosley could very well be the rookie DPOY, but that Sam might be better off in the CFL.
It wasn't just that, it was also the fact that he was reluctant to change to another position. His insistence to be a QB, along with his mediocre passing skills and the media circus that followed him were all elements in his demise.
to follow up on that, heard about the same today.
Teams are looking for Swiss army knifes right now.
Players not only at their position, but guys who can play on multiple special team units as well as well as being adequate for a few scout team positions.
He got drafted where he should have been drafted and given a shot.
Damn near everyone drafted won an award in college. that and $1.00 buys you a coffee the next level
Just like a lot of young men chasing their dream.
By all reports he isn't any good at it.
How many special team plays was he in on this preseason?
how about college? How about high school?
Not rocket science.
None of us are NFL personnel guys, so we're really not qualified to state one way or another whether his orientation has anything to do with his draft position or why he isn't on a roster.
Saying that only one other player that was SEC DPOY has EVER been drafted later than the 3rd round is something to consider. It certainly doesn't prove anything. It is an odd data point to consider, however.
The reason I brought it up was because people were talking about all of the late round picks that haven't made a roster and how many...blah, blah. This assumes that where he was drafted is correct.
Also, saying that since he isn't on a roster that he was drafted in the correct spot is somewhat circular reasoning unless you're completely dismissing his orientation having an influence.
And also consider that draft position has an influence on whether or not a player is cut. How much of an influence? Who really knows?
Again, I don't know either way. I would like to think that his orientation had nothing to do with either his draft position or him being cut. Unfortunately, humans are generally a lot shittier towards one another than I give them credit for.
So really, I just don't know.
It comes easy for some of us.
J. Peterman: Well this certainly looks like a lot of words.
And also consider that draft position has an influence on whether or not a player is cut. How much of an influence? Who really knows?
For guys drafted in the 6th and especially the 7th round it doesn't have much bearing. The Rams cut all 4 of their 7th round picks. The Giants cut their 6th round pick, etc.
2) I can't be certain as there has been a lot of competition over the years, but I'm pretty sure this thread is top 5 all time for stupidity.
3) Can I get the last 10 mins of my life back?
That usually pushed it over the edge...
Too short and too slow. At least, that's what I surmised by listening to Fisher.
This beauty came early in the thread, but it truly is the icing on the cake.
Sure is possible.
Unless he planned this back in his freshman year
All true. But it did get the WWE a lot of free publicity.
Source: #Cowboys are doing research and due diligence into the plan of signing DE Michael Sam to their practice squad.
I don't care who you fuck, if you contribute positively to the bottom line based on merit, you will find a job in pretty much any organization in the civilized world. I'm sure even the kkk, Mara salvatrucha, and Vladimir Putin have gay grand poobahs in the ranks.
Are we to believe that there haven't been openly (or closeted) gay and lesbian employees of these teams? Front office, players, human resources, equipment and locker room personnel. Coaches and Personal trainers, doctors, specialists, masseuses, nutritionists, chefs, lawyers, publicists, stylists, club hosts, maitre ds, hotel staff, live in help, assistants, teachers, accountants, agents, rock stars, celebrities, hangers on, drivers, lackeys, accomplices, boys for life, friends forever, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers, lovers and children.
Should we be so naive as to think that owners of franchises don't have gay family members or may be gay themselves? In all of pro sports?
Bullshit.
Michael Sam seems to be a great kid with a loving and supportive family. His teammates and coaches at Miz supported him and are proud to be his teammate. He has a boyfriend and says they're happy and in love. He was drafted in the seventh round of the nfl draft by the St. Louis rams. He was given an opportunity to show his stuff as a pro football player on an nfl field. If a team has a need, he'll get a shot. He's now a phone call away from another chance to make an nfl squad. And he's barely sprouted pubes. That's nothing short of remarkable.
A lot of things go into the decision of signing any player to your organization. This is a bottom line business. If you produce and add value where teams need it, you find a home. If you don't, you find other employment. This was the best summer job you could ever have with some good money and an opportunity to play elsewhere or leverage it into other opportunities.
Just stop the nonsense about his orientation already.
It's football season. He's a football player. That's it.
I love Jerry Jones.
/rant
About the distraction comments. I don't think teams are shying away from him because he is gay. Nobody in the locker room will really care. The distraction is the MEDIA constantly asking the other players and coaches about it...every week. THAT is the distraction and the talent and output he brings to a team simply is not worth the media circus.
If he was Adrian Peterson and he was gay, then teams would be falling over each other to sign him.
Finally, it is fitting that Jerry Jones has interest in him because in Jerry's world, a media circus is just what the doctor ordered.