Along with his reported lack of versatility, his tweener game, lack of AA, etc. If he's a 4-3 DE, it eliminates half the NFL, for example.
^ this. After the huge stink made about the Rams not retaining him, I went out and found some of his plays online. He really did nothing to stand out. He wasn't terrible, but he was like a lot of other guys that get lost in the wash this time of year - he was ordinary and limited and did nothing special to help his case.
If anything, making a federal case of him not finding a spot does a disservice to other gay athletes, because it implies that they deserve some sort of special consideration or that not retaining their services implies discrimination.
So not retaining their services excludes discrimination ?
He had three sacks and 11 tackles in the preseason. Can't believe that doesn't warrant his inclusion as one of the 300 PS players. Were it not for his SO.
Just randomly look at the sixth and seventh rounds of the draft Â
Yawin Smallwood was a seventh who was cut by Atlanta and is a free agent now. I'm sure the list is much larger, but Sam is by no means the only draft pick to not find a home yet.
I just went through the first 15 guys from the bottom of the draft up Â
has Michael Sam's spot as a developmental DE project with the Giants.
I think a lot of the NFL hierarchy is even less enlightened than it appears, and within the teams, even more so. The players probably have less trouble with Sam being gay than coaches, GMs and owners, who are from a different generation and aren't used to working with guys who are openly gay.
In my business, I've been working with openly gay men since college. It stopped being a thing around 1980. But a lot of guys my age don't feel that way at all.
Zero versatility. Not big enough or strong enough to play inside, not fluid enough to play OLB, regardless of the base defense. Didn't play special teams for the Rams, and he wouldn't play them anywhere else. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
Eventually, a blue-chip college prospect who's openly gay will declare for the draft and no one will think twice about drafting him, keeping him, and playing him. I applaud Michael Sam for having the courage to come out, but the bottom line is that he's just not that good.
RE: I just went through the first 15 guys from the bottom of the draft up Â
Lots of guys recorded sacks in the pre-season (some multiple), but none received the national attention that the media gave Michael Sams for one sack. The media has made a circus side attraction out of the guy simply because he is gay. That’s a distraction I believe most teams don’t want.
disguise alien impostors if ETs could help them win games. Just about showering with a gay guy. How about showering as a straight male cop with some stacked female cops? Is that valid? How would that go over? Or I guess a straight football player showering with an otherwise totally gay team? We had a gay guy on our team. This guy had a tent in his towel every now & then. Was that an intrusion? Just wondering.
There are not enough spots on an NfL roster to keep all of your Â
Before michael sam makes a roster and appears in a game that counts, who is really the first openly gay nfl player? Do we still give it to sam? Judges? .....
Before michael sam makes a roster and appears in a game that counts, who is really the first openly gay nfl player? Do we still give it to sam? Judges? .....
McNabb?
RE: Giants have to sign some Tight Ends to the PS first Â
Before michael sam makes a roster and appears in a game that counts, who is really the first openly gay nfl player? Do we still give it to sam? Judges? .....
Darrelle Revis would then reign supreme. Sorry, Sam, at least you got the ESPY doe...
WWE announced on Monday night's edition of RAW that the company has invited Michael Sam, the first openly gay player to be drafted by the NFL, to next week's broadcast.
It was also announced that if Sam accepts WWE's invitation, they will give him an "open microphone" to tell his side of the story over recent events involving him, including being recently cut by the St. Louis Rams.
Multiple sources are suggesting that WWE is making the move due to the company going head-to-head with an NFL double-header next week.
except that he was SEC Def player of the year and had 3 sacks in the pre-season, I'd be very surpised he didn't make a PS somewhere. He may be one dimensional, but in the NFL sacking the QB is a highly prized dimension. You show patience with guys who might turn into a quality pass rusher.
a guy that can help him win on his team. He also is not the kind of guy to keep someone who is not going to help him win. He said that the decision to cut Sam "wasn't close". After drafting him.
So the team that saw him up close doesn't want him.
Hopefully he gets picked up by someone else. Sounds like he is a real long shot to have a significant NFL career -- irrespective of his sexual preference.
who took a crappy 1-4 team to the playoffs, passed for 316 yards in a playoff win against the Steelers, and then never was given a chance to start another game in the NFL? Is he being black balled?? All he does is win, albeit unconventionally.
and Ron Dayne won the Heisman Trophy. College is college, the pros are the pros.
whatever the merits of the Sam situation, I don't get the Dayne comparison. Dayne was a #1 draft pick and never spent time on a practice squad, much less unemployed until after he'd been in the NFL for a while. Sam is not even on a practice squad (the point of the debate).
and Ron Dayne won the Heisman Trophy. College is college, the pros are the pros.
whatever the merits of the Sam situation, I don't get the Dayne comparison. Dayne was a #1 draft pick and never spent time on a practice squad, much less unemployed until after he'd been in the NFL for a while. Sam is not even on a practice squad (the point of the debate).
I made a Ron dayne reference as well. I can only speak for myself in saying that the reference was to the fact that past performance does not guarantee future results and not all college football awards translate to nfl success. Used in the context to contest the argument that Sam being the co-sec defensive player of the year somehow means anything at the professional level.
And I don't mean in that in the way some do. I know Sam being the first openly gay player in the NFL is a big deal, even if I know that it shouldn't be.
What I mean is, I don't know why so many are so quick to label the situation; whether it be the narrative of bigotry or the narrative of a fringe player whose "baggage" isn't worth what his on-field production could potentially be.
Sam's story, like all other players in his position (regardless of orientation), is far from over. There are a lot of ways this could go. He could find himself on an NFL squad, out of a job, in the booth, in the arena league, etc.
There will be a time to label the Michael Sam story as "this" or "that," but today is not even close to that day. Same could wind up on a roster tomorrow and all of this speculation will seem very wasteful.
RE: RE: I just went through the first 15 guys from the bottom of the draft up Â
I'm sure it's double digits of the amount of draftees that got cut and haven't made a PS yet from this year alone.
Nice job man. Thanks for looking because the population you have found makes this situation look much better. Facts always help...
I wonder how many SEC DPOY got drafted later than the first 3 rds? Because ya know, I wonder if his draft position had anything to do with his orientation.
But our formerly own kelcey quarles was first team SEC and second team all-American at points n his career and also went undrafted. Also, I think in both cases, not making the 53 sort provides their draft position, or lack of draft position in Quarles case, was correct.
If this kid was the second coming of Lawrence Taylor (underaged prostitutes and all) he'd be on a roster somewhere.
This is the league that took back a federal criminal who was accused of electrocuting dogs for fun and profit. There were plenty of protests, and plenty of negative media focus to go with it. The same circus, if not worse. The difference? Vick was still considered a difference maker in this league, whereas Sam is a guy nobody expects to ever amount to much more than an average player.
Is he paying the price for coming out? If he is, it's probably not hurting him all that much. He likely went from marginal bottom of the roster/PS squad player to unemployed. A shame that it counts against him at all, but let's not pretend like he was blacklisted because of his orientation. It's mostly because he just isn't that good.
from before the draft, you'd see that's he never really was projected to be a high draft pick. 6th or 7th round or free agent signing is how most sites had him projected. I guess they're all bigots too? Jeezus people, take a deep breath.
Said one thing holding Sam back from being a reserve/PS player is that he doesn't contribute on STs. So take that into consideration. And remember, just because he hasn't been signed yet doesn't mean he won't be signed during the season.
comparison is pretty straightforward - college achievements do not always guarantee nfl success. Dayne achieved even more success in college and he had a bad nfl career. and he probably was kept around because of the investment.
Are we going to see a thread started for every rookie that was cut and not picked up for a Practice Squad? That would keep ODBeast typing for quite a while.
Two-time first team All-American (once as a unanimous pick) and Big 10 defensive player of the year? He was a 6th round pick and the only reason he ever made an NFL roster is because he was a solid special teams player, and even that only kept him in the league for a year or so.
Quote:
Along with his reported lack of versatility, his tweener game, lack of AA, etc. If he's a 4-3 DE, it eliminates half the NFL, for example.
^ this. After the huge stink made about the Rams not retaining him, I went out and found some of his plays online. He really did nothing to stand out. He wasn't terrible, but he was like a lot of other guys that get lost in the wash this time of year - he was ordinary and limited and did nothing special to help his case.
If anything, making a federal case of him not finding a spot does a disservice to other gay athletes, because it implies that they deserve some sort of special consideration or that not retaining their services implies discrimination.
So not retaining their services excludes discrimination ?
He had three sacks and 11 tackles in the preseason. Can't believe that doesn't warrant his inclusion as one of the 300 PS players. Were it not for his SO.
Yawin Smallwood
Lavelle Westbrooks
Michael Sam
Jeremy Gallon
Tevin Reese
I'm sure it's double digits of the amount of draftees that got cut and haven't made a PS yet from this year alone.
Link - ( New Window )
I think a lot of the NFL hierarchy is even less enlightened than it appears, and within the teams, even more so. The players probably have less trouble with Sam being gay than coaches, GMs and owners, who are from a different generation and aren't used to working with guys who are openly gay.
In my business, I've been working with openly gay men since college. It stopped being a thing around 1980. But a lot of guys my age don't feel that way at all.
Eventually, a blue-chip college prospect who's openly gay will declare for the draft and no one will think twice about drafting him, keeping him, and playing him. I applaud Michael Sam for having the courage to come out, but the bottom line is that he's just not that good.
Yawin Smallwood
Lavelle Westbrooks
Michael Sam
Jeremy Gallon
Tevin Reese
I'm sure it's double digits of the amount of draftees that got cut and haven't made a PS yet from this year alone.
Nice job man. Thanks for looking because the population you have found makes this situation look much better. Facts always help...
Its also interesting because i figured it would be pretty rare that a draftee wouldn't make it to a practice squad (at least at first).
I could see instances of drugs or bad attitudes but still figured it was uncommon on raw talent.
He was a very talented football player that could make most teams starting roster or at least second string.
Now that dude was blackballed.
come on son
I wonder how many other DEs got cut who showed some ability - you think he's the only one struggling to make a roster?
Idonije is not on anyone's roster and he's a guy who has proven he can play in this league.
Could it be discrimination? I suppose, but you can't assume it has to because he's gay.
He's not a blazer off the edge. He might have to get stronger and start trying to make it as a 3-4 inside LB. And, not playing specials is huge.
Quote:
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Its also interesting because i figured it would be pretty rare that a draftee wouldn't make it to a practice squad (at least at first).
I could see instances of drugs or bad attitudes but still figured it was uncommon on raw talent.
It's odd, but not unusual. At that point in the draft, you're basically just owning the rights to an UDFA. It's not exactly a big investment.
but it would blow over :)
pun intended or nah?
McNabb?
No, too easy. I'm not gonna bite.
Darrelle Revis would then reign supreme. Sorry, Sam, at least you got the ESPY doe...
And you have 11 draft picks
It was also announced that if Sam accepts WWE's invitation, they will give him an "open microphone" to tell his side of the story over recent events involving him, including being recently cut by the St. Louis Rams.
Multiple sources are suggesting that WWE is making the move due to the company going head-to-head with an NFL double-header next week.
So the team that saw him up close doesn't want him.
Hopefully he gets picked up by someone else. Sounds like he is a real long shot to have a significant NFL career -- irrespective of his sexual preference.
Quote:
and then you add in possible distractions... no thanks
Tim Tebow had a fairer shake than Sam has had, think about that.
You mean Tim Tebow the Heisman trophy winner, national champion, and first round draft pick? Yea, what a double standard
whatever the merits of the Sam situation, I don't get the Dayne comparison. Dayne was a #1 draft pick and never spent time on a practice squad, much less unemployed until after he'd been in the NFL for a while. Sam is not even on a practice squad (the point of the debate).
if Sam played TE which are in short supply these days
then he probably makes the team
Quote:
and Ron Dayne won the Heisman Trophy. College is college, the pros are the pros.
whatever the merits of the Sam situation, I don't get the Dayne comparison. Dayne was a #1 draft pick and never spent time on a practice squad, much less unemployed until after he'd been in the NFL for a while. Sam is not even on a practice squad (the point of the debate).
I made a Ron dayne reference as well. I can only speak for myself in saying that the reference was to the fact that past performance does not guarantee future results and not all college football awards translate to nfl success. Used in the context to contest the argument that Sam being the co-sec defensive player of the year somehow means anything at the professional level.
Jason White
What I mean is, I don't know why so many are so quick to label the situation; whether it be the narrative of bigotry or the narrative of a fringe player whose "baggage" isn't worth what his on-field production could potentially be.
Sam's story, like all other players in his position (regardless of orientation), is far from over. There are a lot of ways this could go. He could find himself on an NFL squad, out of a job, in the booth, in the arena league, etc.
There will be a time to label the Michael Sam story as "this" or "that," but today is not even close to that day. Same could wind up on a roster tomorrow and all of this speculation will seem very wasteful.
Quote:
And found 5 guys who are currently unemployed.
Yawin Smallwood
Lavelle Westbrooks
Michael Sam
Jeremy Gallon
Tevin Reese
I'm sure it's double digits of the amount of draftees that got cut and haven't made a PS yet from this year alone.
Nice job man. Thanks for looking because the population you have found makes this situation look much better. Facts always help...
I wonder how many SEC DPOY got drafted later than the first 3 rds? Because ya know, I wonder if his draft position had anything to do with his orientation.
...
I disagree. If a good player comes out, he'll be drafted and stick IMO.
This is the league that took back a federal criminal who was accused of electrocuting dogs for fun and profit. There were plenty of protests, and plenty of negative media focus to go with it. The same circus, if not worse. The difference? Vick was still considered a difference maker in this league, whereas Sam is a guy nobody expects to ever amount to much more than an average player.
Is he paying the price for coming out? If he is, it's probably not hurting him all that much. He likely went from marginal bottom of the roster/PS squad player to unemployed. A shame that it counts against him at all, but let's not pretend like he was blacklisted because of his orientation. It's mostly because he just isn't that good.