And was pretty consistently terrible. The comparison is a solid one - there are a couple of options for drafting in the late rounds - good athletes with questionable production for any of a number of reasons, small school guys with questions about competition, or guys like Jones and Sam - major programs, accolades and production, but questions about next-level athleticism.
Jones also had flashed a bit, leaving you with some hope
It's not fair to Sam, but that's going to be a factor for a lot of teams, just as it became a major reason why Tebow is out of football completely. Tebow's not a good QB, but are you telling me that he flat-out doesn't belong in the NFL when a complete zero like Dan Orlovski hangs around for years? The point is that marginal players who are at the center of a media circus won't be worth the trouble to most teams.
Let's not forget that Sam shared it with C.J. Mosley, and you can make a case that Mosley should have won it outright. Yes, Sam had 11.5 sacks to none for Mosley, and 19 TFLs to Mosley's nine, but Mosley had twice as many solo tackles as Sam - 62 to 31 - and more than twice as many total tackles - 108 to 48. Mosley also had five PDefs and forced one fumble. Sam forced two fumbles.
You can also make a case that Sam was a one-year-wonder. He put up better numbers in his senior year than in his freshman, sophomore, and junior years combined. Mosley, on the other hand, was a force to be reckoned with from the get-go, and stayed that way in his four years at Alabama.
That could be one reason why Mosley was a 1st Round pick (#17 overall), like many other SEC DPOY award winners, while Sam didn't go until the 7th Round. Recently, Charlie Casserly said that Mosley could very well be the rookie DPOY, but that Sam might be better off in the CFL.
I could not believe how bad his throws were during his last season. Worst accuracy in the league.
It wasn't just that, it was also the fact that he was reluctant to change to another position. His insistence to be a QB, along with his mediocre passing skills and the media circus that followed him were all elements in his demise.
That it validated my decision to not pay much attention to College Football. That may change now that they have a playoff, but I definitely remember watching him and thinking, "THAT guy was the best player in college football?!?!!"
Said one thing holding Sam back from being a reserve/PS player is that he doesn't contribute on STs. So take that into consideration. And remember, just because he hasn't been signed yet doesn't mean he won't be signed during the season.
to follow up on that, heard about the same today.
Teams are looking for Swiss army knifes right now.
Players not only at their position, but guys who can play on multiple special team units as well as well as being adequate for a few scout team positions.
He got drafted where he should have been drafted and given a shot.
Damn near everyone drafted won an award in college. that and $1.00 buys you a coffee the next level
Really does make a difference. It sounds like an unusual stance for a rookie to take. To my knowledge, most of the Giants' draft picks had to play specials in their rookie year, even guys like JPP.
the SEC DPOY award is nothing but another data point to consider.
None of us are NFL personnel guys, so we're really not qualified to state one way or another whether his orientation has anything to do with his draft position or why he isn't on a roster.
Saying that only one other player that was SEC DPOY has EVER been drafted later than the 3rd round is something to consider. It certainly doesn't prove anything. It is an odd data point to consider, however.
The reason I brought it up was because people were talking about all of the late round picks that haven't made a roster and how many...blah, blah. This assumes that where he was drafted is correct.
Also, saying that since he isn't on a roster that he was drafted in the correct spot is somewhat circular reasoning unless you're completely dismissing his orientation having an influence.
And also consider that draft position has an influence on whether or not a player is cut. How much of an influence? Who really knows?
Again, I don't know either way. I would like to think that his orientation had nothing to do with either his draft position or him being cut. Unfortunately, humans are generally a lot shittier towards one another than I give them credit for.
And also consider that draft position has an influence on whether or not a player is cut. How much of an influence? Who really knows?
For guys drafted in the 6th and especially the 7th round it doesn't have much bearing. The Rams cut all 4 of their 7th round picks. The Giants cut their 6th round pick, etc.
Just spent 10 mins reviewing this thread. Three things:
1) What AnotherGiantsFan said.
2) I can't be certain as there has been a lot of competition over the years, but I'm pretty sure this thread is top 5 all time for stupidity.
3) Can I get the last 10 mins of my life back?
that Sam knew he was a marginal talent ahead of time and used his orientation to improve his chances of sticking with an NFL team? Seems like a contrary position but given the media outpouring, the pressure on Jeff Fischer to keep him has been considerable.
that Sam knew he was a marginal talent ahead of time and used his orientation to improve his chances of sticking with an NFL team? Seems like a contrary position but given the media outpouring, the pressure on Jeff Fischer to keep him has been considerable.
Whether it is this site, on espn, at the water cooler, or at the dining room table, this kid has become a cause and it's an unneeded one.
I don't care who you fuck, if you contribute positively to the bottom line based on merit, you will find a job in pretty much any organization in the civilized world. I'm sure even the kkk, Mara salvatrucha, and Vladimir Putin have gay grand poobahs in the ranks.
Are we to believe that there haven't been openly (or closeted) gay and lesbian employees of these teams? Front office, players, human resources, equipment and locker room personnel. Coaches and Personal trainers, doctors, specialists, masseuses, nutritionists, chefs, lawyers, publicists, stylists, club hosts, maitre ds, hotel staff, live in help, assistants, teachers, accountants, agents, rock stars, celebrities, hangers on, drivers, lackeys, accomplices, boys for life, friends forever, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers, lovers and children.
Should we be so naive as to think that owners of franchises don't have gay family members or may be gay themselves? In all of pro sports?
Bullshit.
Michael Sam seems to be a great kid with a loving and supportive family. His teammates and coaches at Miz supported him and are proud to be his teammate. He has a boyfriend and says they're happy and in love. He was drafted in the seventh round of the nfl draft by the St. Louis rams. He was given an opportunity to show his stuff as a pro football player on an nfl field. If a team has a need, he'll get a shot. He's now a phone call away from another chance to make an nfl squad. And he's barely sprouted pubes. That's nothing short of remarkable.
A lot of things go into the decision of signing any player to your organization. This is a bottom line business. If you produce and add value where teams need it, you find a home. If you don't, you find other employment. This was the best summer job you could ever have with some good money and an opportunity to play elsewhere or leverage it into other opportunities.
Just stop the nonsense about his orientation already.
It's football season. He's a football player. That's it.
the guy was a 7th Round Draft Pick !!!! 7th rounders have a 50/50 chance at best of making it into the NFL. If the guy was a slam dunk then he would be playing for someone right now. In fact, it is possible that he would not have been drafted even if he wasn't gay and Fisher did the guy a favor by giving him a shot.
About the distraction comments. I don't think teams are shying away from him because he is gay. Nobody in the locker room will really care. The distraction is the MEDIA constantly asking the other players and coaches about it...every week. THAT is the distraction and the talent and output he brings to a team simply is not worth the media circus.
If he was Adrian Peterson and he was gay, then teams would be falling over each other to sign him.
Finally, it is fitting that Jerry Jones has interest in him because in Jerry's world, a media circus is just what the doctor ordered.
You can also make a case that Sam was a one-year-wonder. He put up better numbers in his senior year than in his freshman, sophomore, and junior years combined. Mosley, on the other hand, was a force to be reckoned with from the get-go, and stayed that way in his four years at Alabama.
That could be one reason why Mosley was a 1st Round pick (#17 overall), like many other SEC DPOY award winners, while Sam didn't go until the 7th Round. Recently, Charlie Casserly said that Mosley could very well be the rookie DPOY, but that Sam might be better off in the CFL.
It wasn't just that, it was also the fact that he was reluctant to change to another position. His insistence to be a QB, along with his mediocre passing skills and the media circus that followed him were all elements in his demise.
to follow up on that, heard about the same today.
Teams are looking for Swiss army knifes right now.
Players not only at their position, but guys who can play on multiple special team units as well as well as being adequate for a few scout team positions.
He got drafted where he should have been drafted and given a shot.
Damn near everyone drafted won an award in college. that and $1.00 buys you a coffee the next level
Just like a lot of young men chasing their dream.
By all reports he isn't any good at it.
How many special team plays was he in on this preseason?
how about college? How about high school?
Not rocket science.
None of us are NFL personnel guys, so we're really not qualified to state one way or another whether his orientation has anything to do with his draft position or why he isn't on a roster.
Saying that only one other player that was SEC DPOY has EVER been drafted later than the 3rd round is something to consider. It certainly doesn't prove anything. It is an odd data point to consider, however.
The reason I brought it up was because people were talking about all of the late round picks that haven't made a roster and how many...blah, blah. This assumes that where he was drafted is correct.
Also, saying that since he isn't on a roster that he was drafted in the correct spot is somewhat circular reasoning unless you're completely dismissing his orientation having an influence.
And also consider that draft position has an influence on whether or not a player is cut. How much of an influence? Who really knows?
Again, I don't know either way. I would like to think that his orientation had nothing to do with either his draft position or him being cut. Unfortunately, humans are generally a lot shittier towards one another than I give them credit for.
So really, I just don't know.
It comes easy for some of us.
J. Peterman: Well this certainly looks like a lot of words.
And also consider that draft position has an influence on whether or not a player is cut. How much of an influence? Who really knows?
For guys drafted in the 6th and especially the 7th round it doesn't have much bearing. The Rams cut all 4 of their 7th round picks. The Giants cut their 6th round pick, etc.
2) I can't be certain as there has been a lot of competition over the years, but I'm pretty sure this thread is top 5 all time for stupidity.
3) Can I get the last 10 mins of my life back?
That usually pushed it over the edge...
Too short and too slow. At least, that's what I surmised by listening to Fisher.
This beauty came early in the thread, but it truly is the icing on the cake.
Sure is possible.
Unless he planned this back in his freshman year
All true. But it did get the WWE a lot of free publicity.
Source: #Cowboys are doing research and due diligence into the plan of signing DE Michael Sam to their practice squad.
I don't care who you fuck, if you contribute positively to the bottom line based on merit, you will find a job in pretty much any organization in the civilized world. I'm sure even the kkk, Mara salvatrucha, and Vladimir Putin have gay grand poobahs in the ranks.
Are we to believe that there haven't been openly (or closeted) gay and lesbian employees of these teams? Front office, players, human resources, equipment and locker room personnel. Coaches and Personal trainers, doctors, specialists, masseuses, nutritionists, chefs, lawyers, publicists, stylists, club hosts, maitre ds, hotel staff, live in help, assistants, teachers, accountants, agents, rock stars, celebrities, hangers on, drivers, lackeys, accomplices, boys for life, friends forever, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers, lovers and children.
Should we be so naive as to think that owners of franchises don't have gay family members or may be gay themselves? In all of pro sports?
Bullshit.
Michael Sam seems to be a great kid with a loving and supportive family. His teammates and coaches at Miz supported him and are proud to be his teammate. He has a boyfriend and says they're happy and in love. He was drafted in the seventh round of the nfl draft by the St. Louis rams. He was given an opportunity to show his stuff as a pro football player on an nfl field. If a team has a need, he'll get a shot. He's now a phone call away from another chance to make an nfl squad. And he's barely sprouted pubes. That's nothing short of remarkable.
A lot of things go into the decision of signing any player to your organization. This is a bottom line business. If you produce and add value where teams need it, you find a home. If you don't, you find other employment. This was the best summer job you could ever have with some good money and an opportunity to play elsewhere or leverage it into other opportunities.
Just stop the nonsense about his orientation already.
It's football season. He's a football player. That's it.
I love Jerry Jones.
/rant
About the distraction comments. I don't think teams are shying away from him because he is gay. Nobody in the locker room will really care. The distraction is the MEDIA constantly asking the other players and coaches about it...every week. THAT is the distraction and the talent and output he brings to a team simply is not worth the media circus.
If he was Adrian Peterson and he was gay, then teams would be falling over each other to sign him.
Finally, it is fitting that Jerry Jones has interest in him because in Jerry's world, a media circus is just what the doctor ordered.