But the timing surprises me. This will encourage a wider intervention right at the time the decision is being made. As psychotic as they are, ISIS also hasn't been stupid to this point.
But the timing surprises me. This will encourage a wider intervention right at the time the decision is being made. As psychotic as they are, ISIS also hasn't been stupid to this point.
what do you mean?
as for these lowest pieces of shit, its only a matter of time before they get to visit their god. Napalm the area... But this is what they want... they want us there. On the floor and fighting them in their grounds.
so isis has americans in the group? where do they reside, syria? just curious about this group and if it doesnt seem like many people why hasnt a military group gone in to wipe them out
So should we provide you some phone numbers to various service recruiters?
And to answer your last question, this isn't really about why hasn't the military gone in to wipe ISIS out but more so why haven't various governments decided to use military actions against ISIS. Military only operates at the direction of the civilians governments. So why haven't anyone decided to use military actions against ISIS?
so isis has americans in the group? where do they reside, syria? just curious about this group and if it doesnt seem like many people why hasnt a military group gone in to wipe them out
IS has volunteers from around the world, including the US and western Europe. The territory they control includes large chunks of southern Syria and western Iraq. None of the local armed forces, except for Israel who of course is not going to get involved, haven proven competent enough to defeat IS forces. The Kurdish peshmerga has been able to hold them off so far but they are much more lightly armed than IS.
But who had Saddam in check? Depending on whose reports you believe he and his sons were good for anywhere from 10k to 25k (not necessarily beheaded) per year.
one of the most interesting things in history - in their tactics, methods, organization, tolerance, benevolence/brutality, just everything.
I'm all for the Ilkhanate over these guys.
Completely off topic from ISIS, but if you're ever interested, I highly recommend Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford. Link - ( New Window )
they've substituted bruality for political acumen or purpose, and it's a move we haven't seen in about 75 years. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
they've substituted bruality for political acumen or purpose, and it's a move we haven't seen in about 75 years. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.
thinks it is a good idea to leave the US or the UK and go to some sandy shit hole and fight against us?
There's little to no upside, and you are almost certain to get killed at some point.
What could possibly be the allure?
I'm sure there is some psychological cause to why foreigners choose to be radicalized, go off to far off shitholes to kill people they have never met for reasons they don't even fully understand, and are willing to die doing it. While many are from migrant communities with ties to Islam, some were raised in your normal American or British families.
It's time to equip and train the Kurds to do some damage
I know those kinds of moves are typically followed by some after effects that are undesirable, but these fucknuts are savages and really have to go, pronto.
They know that America killing Muslims is their best recruiting tool.
And as long as some pols and pundits publicly call out our leaders for being "weak" if they don't respond, chances are they'll get a response.
So to some degree ISIS will succeed in dictating American policy. Since events inevitably dictate policy, that's probably unavoidable -- but probably not good.
RE: It's time to equip and train the Kurds to do some damage
I know those kinds of moves are typically followed by some after effects that are undesirable, but these fucknuts are savages and really have to go, pronto.
the problem with this who knows if they are with us or against us... that territory is all kinds of fucked.
Eric Hoffer's The True Believer remains the best treatise on the
the problem with this who knows if they are with us or against us... that territory is all kinds of fucked.
I think you can do far worse than aligning with the Kurds. It's their desire for independence that has been the big hurdle for our increased involvement with them and not so much because we can't trust them.
The "New Poor" are the most likely source of converts for mass movements, for they recall their former wealth with resentment and blame others for their current misfortune. Examples include the mass evictions of relatively prosperous tenants during the English Civil War of the 1600s; or the middle- and working-classes in Germany who passionately supported Hitler in the 1930s after suffering years of economic hardship. In contrast, the "abjectly poor" on the verge of starvation make unlikely true believers as their daily struggle for existence takes preeminence over any other concern.[5]
Racial and religious minorities, particularly those only partly assimilated into mainstream culture, are also found in mass movements. Those who live traditionalist lifestyles tend to be content, but the partially assimilated feel alienated from both their forbearers and the mainstream culture. (E.g., "The orthodox Jew is less frustrated than the emancipated Jew".[6])
A variety of what Hoffer terms "misfits" are also found in mass movements. Examples include "chronically bored"; the physically disabled or perpetually ill; the talentless; and criminals or "sinners". In all cases, Hoffer argues, these people feel as if their individual lives are meaningless and worthless.[7]
Have we reached the point when Turkey and Iran is more distressed by the IS than they are by Kurdish independence? I think that's likely the case in Turkey, given how they have negotiated an end to hostilities with the PKK in the past couple of years and have begun to accept Kurds into the Turkish political process.
I think this is what was running through Bush the older's mind when he decided not to run up the highway to Bagdad in Operation Desert Storm.
I've always had a lot of respect for that man. He knew what was waiting for the region if he removed Sadam from power. Now we are seeing the outcome he must have envisioned.
Has been the terrorist capital for years. ...
time to eliminate them now...especially
since Russia was their protector and they
are ocupied now elsewhere...perfect time
for strike...also would send warning to
iran and others..
probably one of our safest bets. Based upon my experience in Iraq, they are a known entity and we could do much worse. I know that's not a glowing endorsement, but it's the best we've got. Every day we delay substantive action against ISIS is just another day they grow stronger and more formidible. The time to act is NOW!
Has been the terrorist capital for years. ...
time to eliminate them now...especially
since Russia was their protector and they
are ocupied now elsewhere...perfect time
for strike...also would send warning to
iran and others..
Ah...so instead of going after ISIS...we do a misdirection and go after Syria? That's definitely an outside of the box thinking that shows your brilliance!
(Thankfully jen psaki didn't finish again by telling us what shoes she's buying next). There was very little in the way of specific response or even concern about Sotloff. The focus is completely Iraq and will not change. Is this only because their sole mission is humanitarian wrt Iraqis? And, would it make sense to see it in a more global fashion and therefore direct action towards Isis in Syria? Is there anything that nc actually be done in Syria ?
it will continue, it will be more gruesome, and it will hit closer to home.
Looks like the JV team is ignoring the call to join the 21st century and adopted 9th century tactics.
Maybe, just maybe they weren't the ones that are JV after all.
probably one of our safest bets. Based upon my experience in Iraq, they are a known entity and we could do much worse. I know that's not a glowing endorsement, but it's the best we've got. Every day we delay substantive action against ISIS is just another day they grow stronger and more formidible. The time to act is NOW!
I agree with you and others (Greg's been championing this idea since the beginning) that the Kurds are our best bet to be used as proxy to get after ISIS, especially since the Iraqi government has been ineffective. However, I am not sure that ISIS is actually growing stronger (or even more formidable) by the day. I think they are becoming more embolden by the delay of the international community to get involved, but they'll remain pretty much what they are now. Once (if is more like it, I guess) the US or any other nation gets more actively involved, ISIS won't last long in their current state but will end up resorting to insurgent tactics we've seen in Iraq in the mid-2000's.
to people who view the separation of Religion and Government as a direct contradiction to Islamists who believe that Islam is the Law and government is there to enforce Islam
There are a half-dozen factions and they're all awful. There are no "good guys" in Syria. Bashar al-Assad is a tyrant. It appears likely that Assad has concentrated his efforts against rebels other than ISIS, tacitly aiding the group's growth, because he's betting that ISIS is so awful that some kind of international effort against them will take care of his problem for him.
ISIS is, well, you know. Al-Nusra may not be as unrelentingly barbaric as ISIS, but they are absolutely a terrorist organization. Hezbollah needs no introduction. It's hard to know what to make of the Free Syrian Army. The Iranian Quds Force is a pretty sinister outfit.
but I think in the very near future it's gonna get unbearably hot for the Sunni tribal leaders in NW Iraq and they're gonna show ISIS the door back to Syria.
What ISIS has accomplished in IRAQ would not have been possible without mainstream Sunni complicity.
Have we reached the point when Turkey and Iran is more distressed by the IS than they are by Kurdish independence? I think that's likely the case in Turkey, given how they have negotiated an end to hostilities with the PKK in the past couple of years and have begun to accept Kurds into the Turkish political process.
I said this exact thing a month or so ago and was shouted down that neither Turkey nor Iran would allow for an independent Kurdistan. Of course the facts I presented about the political situation in Turkey with the Kurds over the last few years were ignored, as most facts are when disagreements arise.
But I still expect the Kurds to be the proxy and to win major concessions towards independence. Both turkey and Iran (and Saudi, etc) would trade Kurdistan for IS every day of the week, twice on Fridays.
What's a shame is that this isn't your dad's Peshmerga and they have already shown diminished capabilities against IS from what one historically expected from their fighters.
This has been allowed to fester and linger. Inaction has been decidedly worse than no action. What that action should be, don't know, but there are few credible players involved that could make a dent.
RE: It's time to equip and train the Kurds to do some damage
I know those kinds of moves are typically followed by some after effects that are undesirable, but these fucknuts are savages and really have to go, pronto.
That's already in process. They've been getting night-fighting equipment and such.
I'm sure Ronnie can speak more definitively than I can regarding
the internal politics of Anbar province, but there's a balancing act here. Going back to the 2006-07 "surge" era, the Sunni tribes there rebelled against the treatment they received at the hands of the Shia-dominated government in Baghdad. This allowed the proto-ISIS, Zarqawi's Al Qaeda in Iraq, to flourish there. The brutality of AQI, however, pushed the tribes into an alliance of convenience with the Iraqi government and the US military to defeat their AQI oppressors.
Now, the cycle is repeating itself - again, Maliki has alienated the Sunnis of Anbar, and again a Sunni-led insurgent group has taken control of the region. At some point, it is likely that they will rebel against the heavy-handed treatment they receive at the hands of ISIS.....but this time, who will they be willing to ally with? I truly don't believe we will ever send a large ground force back to Iraq, so who will it be?
Sadly, I've read that as well lately - the peshmerga isn't the force it was a decade ago. The battle-hardened veterans that made them so effective have either died off or gotten old, and they've struggled to replace them. However, I do hope that, given generous US/regional support, that they can be rebuilt stronger than ever.
In my interested layman's view, that's the best of a range of options ranging from imperfect to downright unappealing.
At a minimum, the peshmerga has a history of military competence
they suffer from some of the same issues endemic to the region in terms of cronyism, so it isn't surprising they have been pushed on their heels. They have the capability to bounce back over time.
are being exagerrated - I read an article that claimed they were trying to create an air force. Getting hold of some planes doesn't make an air force...
These Kurds were brought up in a modern era in cities
And suburbs. Erbil is a modern metropolis. Education and employment is high. So is culture. These aren't the mountain lions of the past, battle hardened and ready for anyone.
Again, this is my own amateur analysis - ISIS is hardly the USMC. Like I said once before, watch the Vice documentary. They spray and pray with their weapons the same way soldiers of many other tinpot armies are prone to doing. They're effective enough fighters by the standards of the region, but their big advantage over their adversaries is one of morale and commitment. Men fight for ISIS out of fanatic zeal, while the Syrian and Iraqi armies are made up largely of conscripts who really don't want any part of this war. The peshmerga has traditionally been a highly motivated force, as they are fighting to protect their own people who lack a nation/"official" military of their own. Even if they are diminished today, that should still give them a fighting chance against ISIS if they are sufficiently supplied.
RE: I'm sure Ronnie can speak more definitively than I can regarding
the internal politics of Anbar province, but there's a balancing act here. Going back to the 2006-07 "surge" era, the Sunni tribes there rebelled against the treatment they received at the hands of the Shia-dominated government in Baghdad. This allowed the proto-ISIS, Zarqawi's Al Qaeda in Iraq, to flourish there. The brutality of AQI, however, pushed the tribes into an alliance of convenience with the Iraqi government and the US military to defeat their AQI oppressors.
Now, the cycle is repeating itself - again, Maliki has alienated the Sunnis of Anbar, and again a Sunni-led insurgent group has taken control of the region. At some point, it is likely that they will rebel against the heavy-handed treatment they receive at the hands of ISIS.....but this time, who will they be willing to ally with? I truly don't believe we will ever send a large ground force back to Iraq, so who will it be?
The Military, if our guys cut off the heads of those mother fuckers the media cry's foul and the soft general population cry's out we can't have that. Get the Media out of the War business and let the Warriors do their Job.
They apparently have several commanders who were highly ranking officers in the Saddam-era army, who are fighting with ISIS mainly to settle old scores rather than out of Muslim piety. Not that the pre-2003 Iraqi Army was particularly effective, but it does give ISIS a more experienced and trained command cadre than most insurgent groups.
RE: RE: I'm sure Ronnie can speak more definitively than I can regarding
the internal politics of Anbar province, but there's a balancing act here. Going back to the 2006-07 "surge" era, the Sunni tribes there rebelled against the treatment they received at the hands of the Shia-dominated government in Baghdad. This allowed the proto-ISIS, Zarqawi's Al Qaeda in Iraq, to flourish there. The brutality of AQI, however, pushed the tribes into an alliance of convenience with the Iraqi government and the US military to defeat their AQI oppressors.
Now, the cycle is repeating itself - again, Maliki has alienated the Sunnis of Anbar, and again a Sunni-led insurgent group has taken control of the region. At some point, it is likely that they will rebel against the heavy-handed treatment they receive at the hands of ISIS.....but this time, who will they be willing to ally with? I truly don't believe we will ever send a large ground force back to Iraq, so who will it be?
Well states, sir.
That and we bribed the fuck out of them. When the money spigot turned off (Maliki using his office as a Shia patronage machine) their loyalty ebbed.
The Military, if our guys cut off the heads of those mother fuckers the media cry's foul and the soft general population cry's out we can't have that. Get the Media out of the War business and let the Warriors do their Job.
Please stop with the silliness. Do you really believe that the US military would engage in an orgy of bloodletting if not for "reporters"?
thinks it is a good idea to leave the US or the UK and go to some sandy shit hole and fight against us?
There's little to no upside, and you are almost certain to get killed at some point.
What could possibly be the allure?
Remember awhile back when we had all these Somali immigrants and they settled in Minnesota and some other places. Well that's where these recruits come from. There were three that came from the same high school in Minnesota.
I think that the current state of the Peshmurga can and will be much improved with professional advisors within its ranks, who can provide air support along with medevac support. Also, as stated earlier, supply of heavier firepower will greatly improve their capabilities.
It may not be an instantaneous improvement, but what you do have with the Kurds is a sense of martial pride that was lacking in the wider Iraqi military. And this will pay far greater return in far shorter period of time than we've seen during our transition period in Iraq when we trained the Iraqi Army.
The seven months I spent advising and operating with the Iraqi Army in Ramadi showed us that even the Iraqi Army is capable of conducting successful military operations if they have professional military advisors assisting them. There were times when we took charge of our Iraqi units (platoon and company levels) when their Iraqi leaders were failing during engagements; however, when the Iraqis knew that they had air support and medevac support available, they were more than willing to put their asses on the line next to their advisors.
What I'm trying to get at is that I am not worried about the Peshmerga not being able to stand against ISIS with our support both on the ground in the form of advisors and from the air. As stated earlier, no matter how much we want to make ISIS out to be this juggernaut of a force, they are amateur group of fighters brutalizing civilians and ill-equiped and poorly-led forces. Once they face a force that is a bit more together, you will see what ISIS is really made up of.
RE: RE: RE: I'm sure Ronnie can speak more definitively than I can regarding
And a formal institution like the Peshmerga will be more likely to absorb and benefit from the coordination with a well trained group of advisors and some heavy arms.
Merely stating, as currently constructed, a once formidable fighting force that could stand on it's own two feet has turned over enough that a new generation, not trained in the crucible of fire, now makes up a sizable chunk of their armed forces.
RE: Undoubtedly some professionalism injected would help
Merely stating, as currently constructed, a once formidable fighting force that could stand on it's own two feet has turned over enough that a new generation, not trained in the crucible of fire, now makes up a sizable chunk of their armed forces.
True that they are not the Peshmerga of the past, but even with a sizable chunk of their force not having been bathed in crucible of fire, they are, as a whole, the best and most dedicated fighting force that the ISIS has faced (until ISIS tries to encroach closer to Baghdad).
The thing that people continue to do is to confuse brutality with military effectiveness. Yes, ISIS has won engagements (mainly against ill-led and ill-equipped forces), but when push came to shove, ISIS were pushed back rather effectively. What most people have focused on is their ability to run through towns defended by nothing more than the locals. While I advocate never underestimating the capabilities of one's enemies, I also don't like to make boogiemen out of bullies. And these bullies have shown that when punched, they crawl back into their holes.
I think this is what was running through Bush the older's mind when he decided not to run up the highway to Bagdad in Operation Desert Storm.
I've always had a lot of respect for that man. He knew what was waiting for the region if he removed Sadam from power. Now we are seeing the outcome he must have envisioned.
I agree...Bush Sr was one of our more underrated Presidents.
The Military, if our guys cut off the heads of those mother fuckers the media cry's foul and the soft general population cry's out we can't have that. Get the Media out of the War business and let the Warriors do their Job.
Please stop with the silliness. Do you really believe that the US military would engage in an orgy of bloodletting if not for "reporters"?
kthxbai
Hopefully, remember the Women are now allowed on the front lines.
Merely stating, as currently constructed, a once formidable fighting force that could stand on it's own two feet has turned over enough that a new generation, not trained in the crucible of fire, now makes up a sizable chunk of their armed forces.
True that they are not the Peshmerga of the past, but even with a sizable chunk of their force not having been bathed in crucible of fire, they are, as a whole, the best and most dedicated fighting force that the ISIS has faced (until ISIS tries to encroach closer to Baghdad).
The thing that people continue to do is to confuse brutality with military effectiveness. Yes, ISIS has won engagements (mainly against ill-led and ill-equipped forces), but when push came to shove, ISIS were pushed back rather effectively. What most people have focused on is their ability to run through towns defended by nothing more than the locals. While I advocate never underestimating the capabilities of one's enemies, I also don't like to make boogiemen out of bullies. And these bullies have shown that when punched, they crawl back into their holes.
I don't disagree that Isis's fighting capabilities are not as organized as they may become. Let's remember that these guys aren't just farmers. They're educated, they're organized, they have been running municipal governments. Their brutality makes up for the lack of a formal fighting force. But they're not the FSA, for example.
They are masters of propaganda and the mind fuck. That's their advantage. Time honored tactic to sweep up the small towns to foment fear and disunity amongst their enemy in the bigger cities down the road. Put a few heads on some sticks and you've got everyone's attention. It's like they just got done watching a Game of Thrones marathon.
Now here is the rub. Isis controls enough territory and treasure and has the infrastructure to support a small state at this point in time. How long will it take to institutionalize a formal military made up of ex-Baathists, cowered Sunni Arabs, and Jihad John from Britain...how long do they control swathes of territory until they can stand and take a punch?
I disagree on a few counts. I don't think they're as monolithic as we are led to believe. Not unlike the Taliban, where they can work through Sunni sheiks they seem to be doing that. So when someone does something spectacularly brutal or makes a good tactical decision I'm not sure it sends a cognizable message about the entity as a whole.
I still don't know that the appearance of this wannabe Caliphate is going to be enough to convince Turkey to disgorge itself of any territory, at least not until ISIS/ISIL has proven it can stand and fight against a disciplined, motivated, well-armed state army such as the Turks or, if it comes down to it, Iran.
Steven was one of my campers when I was a camp counselor back in college (97-00). When I first saw his name in the news after Foley's execution, I knew it was just a matter of time. So sad.
Steven was one of my campers when I was a camp counselor back in college (97-00). When I first saw his name in the news after Foley's execution, I knew it was just a matter of time. So sad.
Does anyone understand why Foley and Sotloff would make pro-ISIS statements in the videos, since they seem to know their fate is sealed regardless of what they say? When I first read Foley's statement, I thought, "Why did he say that?"
Also, why is the actual execution not shown in either video? I certainly don't want to see either one. But if ISIS wants to boast about how savage their tactics are, why are they going through the trouble of editing it out?
(And by the way, these aren't rhetorical questions based on conspiracy theories. They just strike me as odd in the overall context.)
the body will die. There are former Saddam officers looking for a return to glory since being marginalized by Malacki. They are battle hardened, disciplined and apocalyptic . I hope our intelligence is as up to the job of identifying( like the playing cards with Saddam's inner circle) and destroying the command and control players
Does anyone understand why Foley and Sotloff would make pro-ISIS statements in the videos, since they seem to know their fate is sealed regardless of what they say? When I first read Foley's statement, I thought, "Why did he say that?"
We don't need boots on the ground until we've blown the shit out if the entire area. We have the fire power to do so.
I don't have any kids in the military so some may say that's this is easy for me to say... But that is what our military is for. The more they wait the more danger we are in. This scum needs to be wiped off the map!
In comment 11837786 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
And exterminate..., shock and awe part 2!
We don't need boots on the ground until we've blown the shit out if the entire area. We have the fire power to do so.
I don't have any kids in the military so some may say that's this is easy for me to say... But that is what our military is for. The more they wait the more danger we are in. This scum needs to be wiped off the map!
I can't help but feel this is an opportune time to Nuke Mecca when we have the chance. (insert Toby Ketih lyrics)
'Murica!
what kind of idiot keeps his old handle in his new one?
thus defeating the purpose of changing it to begin with.
The story is that these guys both went through at least a dozen mock executions (read led outside, camera, speech, etc all until the end, when they were just returned to their cell) so they are either broken or under the belief its another fake one until it's done.
As far as the camera breaking away - decapitating the way they are is not a smooth process and would take awhile (ugh), so it might make them look weak as they had trouble sawing away.
The reason I kept my old one is because I' ve been on here for a very long time and met some great peeps personally at Giant Stadium and on the road .. So I put my name with my old handle .. Put a face with the handle ..
I disagree on a few counts. I don't think they're as monolithic as we are led to believe. Not unlike the Taliban, where they can work through Sunni sheiks they seem to be doing that. So when someone does something spectacularly brutal or makes a good tactical decision I'm not sure it sends a cognizable message about the entity as a whole.
I still don't know that the appearance of this wannabe Caliphate is going to be enough to convince Turkey to disgorge itself of any territory, at least not until ISIS/ISIL has proven it can stand and fight against a disciplined, motivated, well-armed state army such as the Turks or, if it comes down to it, Iran.
Dune, Sure they sub contract the work in some manner or another but they have found a very effective means of giving the appearance of a modern apparatus with centralized control and some competence at governing at the top (considering how many ex govt, no surprise - invasion of bureaucrats???), whether that is or isn't the case. That starts to become a self fulfilling prophecy (no pun intended). When left unchecked, or worse, galvanized by successive victories, mixed with some setbacks, they have been doing this pretty well. They've demonstrated a lot of things they do well.
They have a world class negotiating and marketing plan and they are executing on it. Something about one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. The Steve Jobs/Joseph Stalin school of terrorism.
--
I hadn't considered Turkey taking direct action before an Iraqi or Kurdish force took their turn. And then I'd imagine we'd somehow find our way into this somehow, someway. Was thinking it to be a considerable bribe, more or less. That's something that's going to be turning over in my head. I'm due in Turkey later this year.
It is believed hat ISIS is already organizing here in the US. I fear a terrorist act far greater than 9/11.
Too many people living in their suburban bubble here in the US think we should just pull out of the middle east and do nothing. They think if we just walk away, then the terrorists will stop. They will never stop. They are born and bred to hate us, fight us and kill us. They have no hobbies other than their obsession.
The scary thing is that this ISIS threat comes at a time when our borders are least secure. They can basically walk right in through Mexico and be allowed to stay.
In comment 11838268 EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) said:
Quote:
It is believed hat ISIS is already organizing here in the US. I fear a terrorist act far greater than 9/11.
Too many people living in their suburban bubble here in the US think we should just pull out of the middle east and do nothing. They think if we just walk away, then the terrorists will stop. They will never stop. They are born and bred to hate us, fight us and kill us. They have no hobbies other than their obsession.
The scary thing is that this ISIS threat comes at a time when our borders are least secure. They can basically walk right in through Mexico and be allowed to stay.
That was about as stupid a post as I've read on this topic. Seriously, do you even read what you've typed before you actually click submit?
Wait aren't you the same dude who was about to attack your fellow flight passenger because he was a foreigner, who got a little agitated because he needed to go piss on your flight? If so, this post makes a lot of sense.
I think a totally new handle would be a solid move - at least your stupid wouldn't have a history.
If you're referring to the post right above yours, it's another poster with his former handle in parenthesis...however, your comment is still valid for that post as well.
made up of those with skin in the game. We can bomb till the cows come home, if moderate Sunni's and S'hites don't put aside their religious difference to fight a bigger threat then we will be in the same sectarian quagmire as when we pulled out of Iraq in 2011. We can not go it alone to destroy ISIS
He gets his "information" from the baseless, scaremongering sources out there that don't have a remote clue what's really going on.
But he will be the difference between your plane crashing or landing safely when that foreigner tries to take a piss...er...I mean hijack your flight. He's the real hero.
From what Intelligence has gathered, it would be 9-11 times 100
In comment 11838268 EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) said:
Quote:
They are born and bred to hate us, fight us and kill us.
To the contrary, many of the "foreign fighters" have been converted to extremism. One of the scary parts of ISIS is just how effective their propaganda has been in social media.
Currently, the threat to the US domestically is from lone wolves or returnees who want to do an uncomplicated act of terrorism. 9-11 took over years of planning and a lot of sophistication. ISIS hasn't been around long enough in large numbers to have something like that anywhere past the beginning stages. But we ignore the future possibilities at our own risk.
In comment 11838268 EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) said:
Quote:
It is believed hat ISIS is already organizing here in the US. I fear a terrorist act far greater than 9/11.
Too many people living in their suburban bubble here in the US think we should just pull out of the middle east and do nothing. They think if we just walk away, then the terrorists will stop. They will never stop. They are born and bred to hate us, fight us and kill us. They have no hobbies other than their obsession.
The scary thing is that this ISIS threat comes at a time when our borders are least secure. They can basically walk right in through Mexico and be allowed to stay.
That was about as stupid a post as I've read on this topic. Seriously, do you even read what you've typed before you actually click submit?
Wait aren't you the same dude who was about to attack your fellow flight passenger because he was a foreigner, who got a little agitated because he needed to go piss on your flight? If so, this post makes a lot of sense.
yeah, we was going to use his drink stirrer or something to take him out wasn't he?
I'm not aware of the "foreigner wanted to take a piss on a flight" story.
He told a story about how post 9/11, he was ready to jab an Arab in the throat with his drink stirrer because this foreigner was getting agitated (because he had to take a piss) during the takeoff. He even fashioned himself a nice body armor with a couple of Sky Mall magazines. That damn foreigner was just moments away from becoming a fucking human kabob.
when we were previously haranguing Kevin (formerly Tiki4Six) I actually had confused his handle with EricJ (formerly tyleraimee). Luckily ole tyler came aboard and clarified this for me, rightly taking his place in the Parthenon of awful posters on BBI. We regret this error, If I only had an elephant like memory of BBI handles past and present it could've been avoided.
Kevin, you're okay by me, even if that was a dumb post.
I'm a bit confused by the ongoing press releases by
Are they saying that the US will identify and bring to justice those ISIS members and leaders, who had direct role in the killing of the two journalists? Or are they saying that the US will destroy ISIS with all of its might?
It's a bit confusing when they talk about destroying ISIS but also make it sound like we'll be going after a more surgical route targeting specific individuals. Link - ( New Window )
Are they saying that the US will identify and bring to justice those ISIS members and leaders, who had direct role in the killing of the two journalists? Or are they saying that the US will destroy ISIS with all of its might?
It's a bit confusing when they talk about destroying ISIS but also make it sound like we'll be going after a more surgical route targeting specific individuals. Link - ( New Window )
Let me make this perfectly clear - when has this White House made a perfectly clear statement?
But the M.O. for these guys is to bring these terrorists to New York for trial. It is what civilized people do.
I'm not aware of the "foreigner wanted to take a piss on a flight" story.
He told a story about how post 9/11, he was ready to jab an Arab in the throat with his drink stirrer because this foreigner was getting agitated (because he had to take a piss) during the takeoff. He even fashioned himself a nice body armor with a couple of Sky Mall magazines. That damn foreigner was just moments away from becoming a fucking human kabob.
He also gave a little nod to another passenger as they were boarding so he understood that if shit went down, they'd take him out.
capone - you owe animals an apology
what do you mean?
as for these lowest pieces of shit, its only a matter of time before they get to visit their god. Napalm the area... But this is what they want... they want us there. On the floor and fighting them in their grounds.
so isis has americans in the group? where do they reside, syria? just curious about this group and if it doesnt seem like many people why hasnt a military group gone in to wipe them out
Unfortunately, you're likely to have to wait a long time for that one.
If only there were a modern-day version of Hulagu Khan. Now there was a man who knew how to dispatch the so-called caliphate.
So should we provide you some phone numbers to various service recruiters?
And to answer your last question, this isn't really about why hasn't the military gone in to wipe ISIS out but more so why haven't various governments decided to use military actions against ISIS. Military only operates at the direction of the civilians governments. So why haven't anyone decided to use military actions against ISIS?
these people are savages.
If only there were a modern-day version of Hulagu Khan. Now there was a man who knew how to dispatch the so-called caliphate.
I especially enjoyed reading about how he wiped out the Assassins...now that was a complete asskicking.
so isis has americans in the group? where do they reside, syria? just curious about this group and if it doesnt seem like many people why hasnt a military group gone in to wipe them out
IS has volunteers from around the world, including the US and western Europe. The territory they control includes large chunks of southern Syria and western Iraq. None of the local armed forces, except for Israel who of course is not going to get involved, haven proven competent enough to defeat IS forces. The Kurdish peshmerga has been able to hold them off so far but they are much more lightly armed than IS.
Foreign fighters in ISIS - ( New Window )
I'm all for the Ilkhanate over these guys.
But who had Saddam in check? Depending on whose reports you believe he and his sons were good for anywhere from 10k to 25k (not necessarily beheaded) per year.
I'm all for the Ilkhanate over these guys.
Completely off topic from ISIS, but if you're ever interested, I highly recommend Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford.
Link - ( New Window )
I wish there was no reason for this ISIS thread.
British/Kurdish counter-terror specialist Bafel Talabani talked to Sky News about the situation in Iraq, the Kurdish people, and the war on terror:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NNZIfaxH0A
A captured ISIS suicide bomber talked to a reporter (also from Sky News) from his hospital bed:
http://news.sky.com/story/1327867/captured-is-suicide-bomber-reveals-threat
Couldn't agree more.
There's little to no upside, and you are almost certain to get killed at some point.
What could possibly be the allure?
The thing is with ISIS is their end game; world domination. Seriously. There's no negotiating with that.
This isn't a rationale actor with understandable if undesirable aims (at least to us) maneuvering for a bigger piece of the pie.
When you have the US, Assad, Russia, Iran working together against you, that says something.
There's little to no upside, and you are almost certain to get killed at some point.
What could possibly be the allure?
I'm sure there is some psychological cause to why foreigners choose to be radicalized, go off to far off shitholes to kill people they have never met for reasons they don't even fully understand, and are willing to die doing it. While many are from migrant communities with ties to Islam, some were raised in your normal American or British families.
And as long as some pols and pundits publicly call out our leaders for being "weak" if they don't respond, chances are they'll get a response.
So to some degree ISIS will succeed in dictating American policy. Since events inevitably dictate policy, that's probably unavoidable -- but probably not good.
the problem with this who knows if they are with us or against us... that territory is all kinds of fucked.
Link - ( New Window )
I think you can do far worse than aligning with the Kurds. It's their desire for independence that has been the big hurdle for our increased involvement with them and not so much because we can't trust them.
Racial and religious minorities, particularly those only partly assimilated into mainstream culture, are also found in mass movements. Those who live traditionalist lifestyles tend to be content, but the partially assimilated feel alienated from both their forbearers and the mainstream culture. (E.g., "The orthodox Jew is less frustrated than the emancipated Jew".[6])
A variety of what Hoffer terms "misfits" are also found in mass movements. Examples include "chronically bored"; the physically disabled or perpetually ill; the talentless; and criminals or "sinners". In all cases, Hoffer argues, these people feel as if their individual lives are meaningless and worthless.[7]
Link - ( New Window )
I think this is what was running through Bush the older's mind when he decided not to run up the highway to Bagdad in Operation Desert Storm.
I've always had a lot of respect for that man. He knew what was waiting for the region if he removed Sadam from power. Now we are seeing the outcome he must have envisioned.
time to eliminate them now...especially
since Russia was their protector and they
are ocupied now elsewhere...perfect time
for strike...also would send warning to
iran and others..
time to eliminate them now...especially
since Russia was their protector and they
are ocupied now elsewhere...perfect time
for strike...also would send warning to
iran and others..
Ah...so instead of going after ISIS...we do a misdirection and go after Syria? That's definitely an outside of the box thinking that shows your brilliance!
I wish there was no reason for this ISIS thread.
British/Kurdish counter-terror specialist Bafel Talabani talked to Sky News about the situation in Iraq, the Kurdish people, and the war on terror:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NNZIfaxH0A
A captured ISIS suicide bomber talked to a reporter (also from Sky News) from his hospital bed:
http://news.sky.com/story/1327867/captured-is-suicide-bomber-reveals-threat
Anyone who is on the fence about helping the Kurds needs to watch that first video. He's an excellent spokesman.
Looks like the JV team is ignoring the call to join the 21st century and adopted 9th century tactics.
Maybe, just maybe they weren't the ones that are JV after all.
I agree with you and others (Greg's been championing this idea since the beginning) that the Kurds are our best bet to be used as proxy to get after ISIS, especially since the Iraqi government has been ineffective. However, I am not sure that ISIS is actually growing stronger (or even more formidable) by the day. I think they are becoming more embolden by the delay of the international community to get involved, but they'll remain pretty much what they are now. Once (if is more like it, I guess) the US or any other nation gets more actively involved, ISIS won't last long in their current state but will end up resorting to insurgent tactics we've seen in Iraq in the mid-2000's.
Haha...I see what you did there. Yeah, great comparison...brilliant, actually.
ISIS is, well, you know. Al-Nusra may not be as unrelentingly barbaric as ISIS, but they are absolutely a terrorist organization. Hezbollah needs no introduction. It's hard to know what to make of the Free Syrian Army. The Iranian Quds Force is a pretty sinister outfit.
What ISIS has accomplished in IRAQ would not have been possible without mainstream Sunni complicity.
Well, then, the problem's solved! Kudos!
I said this exact thing a month or so ago and was shouted down that neither Turkey nor Iran would allow for an independent Kurdistan. Of course the facts I presented about the political situation in Turkey with the Kurds over the last few years were ignored, as most facts are when disagreements arise.
But I still expect the Kurds to be the proxy and to win major concessions towards independence. Both turkey and Iran (and Saudi, etc) would trade Kurdistan for IS every day of the week, twice on Fridays.
What's a shame is that this isn't your dad's Peshmerga and they have already shown diminished capabilities against IS from what one historically expected from their fighters.
This has been allowed to fester and linger. Inaction has been decidedly worse than no action. What that action should be, don't know, but there are few credible players involved that could make a dent.
That's already in process. They've been getting night-fighting equipment and such.
Now, the cycle is repeating itself - again, Maliki has alienated the Sunnis of Anbar, and again a Sunni-led insurgent group has taken control of the region. At some point, it is likely that they will rebel against the heavy-handed treatment they receive at the hands of ISIS.....but this time, who will they be willing to ally with? I truly don't believe we will ever send a large ground force back to Iraq, so who will it be?
Instructors and some modern anti-tank weaponry in the hands of the Kurds, with continued air support and ISIS will look a whole lot less imposing.
In my interested layman's view, that's the best of a range of options ranging from imperfect to downright unappealing.
Now, the cycle is repeating itself - again, Maliki has alienated the Sunnis of Anbar, and again a Sunni-led insurgent group has taken control of the region. At some point, it is likely that they will rebel against the heavy-handed treatment they receive at the hands of ISIS.....but this time, who will they be willing to ally with? I truly don't believe we will ever send a large ground force back to Iraq, so who will it be?
Well states, sir.
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the internal politics of Anbar province, but there's a balancing act here. Going back to the 2006-07 "surge" era, the Sunni tribes there rebelled against the treatment they received at the hands of the Shia-dominated government in Baghdad. This allowed the proto-ISIS, Zarqawi's Al Qaeda in Iraq, to flourish there. The brutality of AQI, however, pushed the tribes into an alliance of convenience with the Iraqi government and the US military to defeat their AQI oppressors.
Now, the cycle is repeating itself - again, Maliki has alienated the Sunnis of Anbar, and again a Sunni-led insurgent group has taken control of the region. At some point, it is likely that they will rebel against the heavy-handed treatment they receive at the hands of ISIS.....but this time, who will they be willing to ally with? I truly don't believe we will ever send a large ground force back to Iraq, so who will it be?
Well states, sir.
That and we bribed the fuck out of them. When the money spigot turned off (Maliki using his office as a Shia patronage machine) their loyalty ebbed.
Please stop with the silliness. Do you really believe that the US military would engage in an orgy of bloodletting if not for "reporters"?
kthxbai
There's little to no upside, and you are almost certain to get killed at some point.
What could possibly be the allure?
Remember awhile back when we had all these Somali immigrants and they settled in Minnesota and some other places. Well that's where these recruits come from. There were three that came from the same high school in Minnesota.
It may not be an instantaneous improvement, but what you do have with the Kurds is a sense of martial pride that was lacking in the wider Iraqi military. And this will pay far greater return in far shorter period of time than we've seen during our transition period in Iraq when we trained the Iraqi Army.
The seven months I spent advising and operating with the Iraqi Army in Ramadi showed us that even the Iraqi Army is capable of conducting successful military operations if they have professional military advisors assisting them. There were times when we took charge of our Iraqi units (platoon and company levels) when their Iraqi leaders were failing during engagements; however, when the Iraqis knew that they had air support and medevac support available, they were more than willing to put their asses on the line next to their advisors.
What I'm trying to get at is that I am not worried about the Peshmerga not being able to stand against ISIS with our support both on the ground in the form of advisors and from the air. As stated earlier, no matter how much we want to make ISIS out to be this juggernaut of a force, they are amateur group of fighters brutalizing civilians and ill-equiped and poorly-led forces. Once they face a force that is a bit more together, you will see what ISIS is really made up of.
Meh, when in Rome.
Merely stating, as currently constructed, a once formidable fighting force that could stand on it's own two feet has turned over enough that a new generation, not trained in the crucible of fire, now makes up a sizable chunk of their armed forces.
True that they are not the Peshmerga of the past, but even with a sizable chunk of their force not having been bathed in crucible of fire, they are, as a whole, the best and most dedicated fighting force that the ISIS has faced (until ISIS tries to encroach closer to Baghdad).
The thing that people continue to do is to confuse brutality with military effectiveness. Yes, ISIS has won engagements (mainly against ill-led and ill-equipped forces), but when push came to shove, ISIS were pushed back rather effectively. What most people have focused on is their ability to run through towns defended by nothing more than the locals. While I advocate never underestimating the capabilities of one's enemies, I also don't like to make boogiemen out of bullies. And these bullies have shown that when punched, they crawl back into their holes.
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we are hearing alot more of this now a days...
I think this is what was running through Bush the older's mind when he decided not to run up the highway to Bagdad in Operation Desert Storm.
I've always had a lot of respect for that man. He knew what was waiting for the region if he removed Sadam from power. Now we are seeing the outcome he must have envisioned.
I agree...Bush Sr was one of our more underrated Presidents.
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The Military, if our guys cut off the heads of those mother fuckers the media cry's foul and the soft general population cry's out we can't have that. Get the Media out of the War business and let the Warriors do their Job.
Please stop with the silliness. Do you really believe that the US military would engage in an orgy of bloodletting if not for "reporters"?
kthxbai
Hopefully, remember the Women are now allowed on the front lines.
?
The Totenkopfs were just following orders
But what about what the Hutu's did for machete sales?
Losing strategy, guys.
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That and we bribed the fuck out of them. When the money spigot turned off (Maliki using his office as a Shia patronage machine) their loyalty ebbed.
Meh, when in Rome.
No judgment. Just saying when you evaluate for loyalty and zeal start by asking who is signing their paychecks.
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Merely stating, as currently constructed, a once formidable fighting force that could stand on it's own two feet has turned over enough that a new generation, not trained in the crucible of fire, now makes up a sizable chunk of their armed forces.
True that they are not the Peshmerga of the past, but even with a sizable chunk of their force not having been bathed in crucible of fire, they are, as a whole, the best and most dedicated fighting force that the ISIS has faced (until ISIS tries to encroach closer to Baghdad).
The thing that people continue to do is to confuse brutality with military effectiveness. Yes, ISIS has won engagements (mainly against ill-led and ill-equipped forces), but when push came to shove, ISIS were pushed back rather effectively. What most people have focused on is their ability to run through towns defended by nothing more than the locals. While I advocate never underestimating the capabilities of one's enemies, I also don't like to make boogiemen out of bullies. And these bullies have shown that when punched, they crawl back into their holes.
I don't disagree that Isis's fighting capabilities are not as organized as they may become. Let's remember that these guys aren't just farmers. They're educated, they're organized, they have been running municipal governments. Their brutality makes up for the lack of a formal fighting force. But they're not the FSA, for example.
They are masters of propaganda and the mind fuck. That's their advantage. Time honored tactic to sweep up the small towns to foment fear and disunity amongst their enemy in the bigger cities down the road. Put a few heads on some sticks and you've got everyone's attention. It's like they just got done watching a Game of Thrones marathon.
Now here is the rub. Isis controls enough territory and treasure and has the infrastructure to support a small state at this point in time. How long will it take to institutionalize a formal military made up of ex-Baathists, cowered Sunni Arabs, and Jihad John from Britain...how long do they control swathes of territory until they can stand and take a punch?
Stronger by the second...
I still don't know that the appearance of this wannabe Caliphate is going to be enough to convince Turkey to disgorge itself of any territory, at least not until ISIS/ISIL has proven it can stand and fight against a disciplined, motivated, well-armed state army such as the Turks or, if it comes down to it, Iran.
Wow
In comment 11837695 Gatorade Dunk said:
Does anyone understand why Foley and Sotloff would make pro-ISIS statements in the videos, since they seem to know their fate is sealed regardless of what they say? When I first read Foley's statement, I thought, "Why did he say that?"
Also, why is the actual execution not shown in either video? I certainly don't want to see either one. But if ISIS wants to boast about how savage their tactics are, why are they going through the trouble of editing it out?
(And by the way, these aren't rhetorical questions based on conspiracy theories. They just strike me as odd in the overall context.)
Also, remember that victims of torture can be made to say pretty much anything that the torturers want, if it's comprehensive and long enough.
Does anyone understand why Foley and Sotloff would make pro-ISIS statements in the videos, since they seem to know their fate is sealed regardless of what they say? When I first read Foley's statement, I thought, "Why did he say that?"
There are fates worse than beheading.
Really dude?
We don't need boots on the ground until we've blown the shit out if the entire area. We have the fire power to do so.
I don't have any kids in the military so some may say that's this is easy for me to say... But that is what our military is for. The more they wait the more danger we are in. This scum needs to be wiped off the map!
We don't need boots on the ground until we've blown the shit out if the entire area. We have the fire power to do so.
I don't have any kids in the military so some may say that's this is easy for me to say... But that is what our military is for. The more they wait the more danger we are in. This scum needs to be wiped off the map!
I can't help but feel this is an opportune time to Nuke Mecca when we have the chance. (insert Toby Ketih lyrics)
'Murica!
The story is that these guys both went through at least a dozen mock executions (read led outside, camera, speech, etc all until the end, when they were just returned to their cell) so they are either broken or under the belief its another fake one until it's done.
As far as the camera breaking away - decapitating the way they are is not a smooth process and would take awhile (ugh), so it might make them look weak as they had trouble sawing away.
Thus concludes one of my grimmer posts here.
But by all means GFY
Sweet:-(.
I still don't know that the appearance of this wannabe Caliphate is going to be enough to convince Turkey to disgorge itself of any territory, at least not until ISIS/ISIL has proven it can stand and fight against a disciplined, motivated, well-armed state army such as the Turks or, if it comes down to it, Iran.
Dune, Sure they sub contract the work in some manner or another but they have found a very effective means of giving the appearance of a modern apparatus with centralized control and some competence at governing at the top (considering how many ex govt, no surprise - invasion of bureaucrats???), whether that is or isn't the case. That starts to become a self fulfilling prophecy (no pun intended). When left unchecked, or worse, galvanized by successive victories, mixed with some setbacks, they have been doing this pretty well. They've demonstrated a lot of things they do well.
They have a world class negotiating and marketing plan and they are executing on it. Something about one death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic. The Steve Jobs/Joseph Stalin school of terrorism.
--
I hadn't considered Turkey taking direct action before an Iraqi or Kurdish force took their turn. And then I'd imagine we'd somehow find our way into this somehow, someway. Was thinking it to be a considerable bribe, more or less. That's something that's going to be turning over in my head. I'm due in Turkey later this year.
Too many people living in their suburban bubble here in the US think we should just pull out of the middle east and do nothing. They think if we just walk away, then the terrorists will stop. They will never stop. They are born and bred to hate us, fight us and kill us. They have no hobbies other than their obsession.
The scary thing is that this ISIS threat comes at a time when our borders are least secure. They can basically walk right in through Mexico and be allowed to stay.
Too many people living in their suburban bubble here in the US think we should just pull out of the middle east and do nothing. They think if we just walk away, then the terrorists will stop. They will never stop. They are born and bred to hate us, fight us and kill us. They have no hobbies other than their obsession.
The scary thing is that this ISIS threat comes at a time when our borders are least secure. They can basically walk right in through Mexico and be allowed to stay.
That was about as stupid a post as I've read on this topic. Seriously, do you even read what you've typed before you actually click submit?
Wait aren't you the same dude who was about to attack your fellow flight passenger because he was a foreigner, who got a little agitated because he needed to go piss on your flight? If so, this post makes a lot of sense.
If you're referring to the post right above yours, it's another poster with his former handle in parenthesis...however, your comment is still valid for that post as well.
But he will be the difference between your plane crashing or landing safely when that foreigner tries to take a piss...er...I mean hijack your flight. He's the real hero.
Spottswood: Yes....91,100!
Joe: All the worst stuff in the Bible, basically.
To the contrary, many of the "foreign fighters" have been converted to extremism. One of the scary parts of ISIS is just how effective their propaganda has been in social media.
Currently, the threat to the US domestically is from lone wolves or returnees who want to do an uncomplicated act of terrorism. 9-11 took over years of planning and a lot of sophistication. ISIS hasn't been around long enough in large numbers to have something like that anywhere past the beginning stages. But we ignore the future possibilities at our own risk.
I wish...this is what we used...
That's what my wife said...whaa?
Link - ( New Window )
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It is believed hat ISIS is already organizing here in the US. I fear a terrorist act far greater than 9/11.
Too many people living in their suburban bubble here in the US think we should just pull out of the middle east and do nothing. They think if we just walk away, then the terrorists will stop. They will never stop. They are born and bred to hate us, fight us and kill us. They have no hobbies other than their obsession.
The scary thing is that this ISIS threat comes at a time when our borders are least secure. They can basically walk right in through Mexico and be allowed to stay.
That was about as stupid a post as I've read on this topic. Seriously, do you even read what you've typed before you actually click submit?
Wait aren't you the same dude who was about to attack your fellow flight passenger because he was a foreigner, who got a little agitated because he needed to go piss on your flight? If so, this post makes a lot of sense.
yeah, we was going to use his drink stirrer or something to take him out wasn't he?
He told a story about how post 9/11, he was ready to jab an Arab in the throat with his drink stirrer because this foreigner was getting agitated (because he had to take a piss) during the takeoff. He even fashioned himself a nice body armor with a couple of Sky Mall magazines. That damn foreigner was just moments away from becoming a fucking human kabob.
Kevin, you're okay by me, even if that was a dumb post.
Are they saying that the US will identify and bring to justice those ISIS members and leaders, who had direct role in the killing of the two journalists? Or are they saying that the US will destroy ISIS with all of its might?
It's a bit confusing when they talk about destroying ISIS but also make it sound like we'll be going after a more surgical route targeting specific individuals.
Link - ( New Window )
Are they saying that the US will identify and bring to justice those ISIS members and leaders, who had direct role in the killing of the two journalists? Or are they saying that the US will destroy ISIS with all of its might?
It's a bit confusing when they talk about destroying ISIS but also make it sound like we'll be going after a more surgical route targeting specific individuals. Link - ( New Window )
Let me make this perfectly clear - when has this White House made a perfectly clear statement?
But the M.O. for these guys is to bring these terrorists to New York for trial. It is what civilized people do.
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I'm not aware of the "foreigner wanted to take a piss on a flight" story.
He told a story about how post 9/11, he was ready to jab an Arab in the throat with his drink stirrer because this foreigner was getting agitated (because he had to take a piss) during the takeoff. He even fashioned himself a nice body armor with a couple of Sky Mall magazines. That damn foreigner was just moments away from becoming a fucking human kabob.
He also gave a little nod to another passenger as they were boarding so he understood that if shit went down, they'd take him out.
Completely forgot about that. That's some "Let's Roll" shit there.
Why do you have to bring race into this? WTF, dude?
What did you say? Shit's dangerous.