Dave Diehl is co-hosting this morning, so there was some good Giants talk. A caller said that Eli didn't seem to be a good fit for the new offense, and mentioned the shortage of quality WR's with Beckam not being able to get on the field. Diehl went thruogh the whole spiel about the offensive line taking time to gel, but then brought up that Eli is 11th all time in 4th quarter comebacks for a reason, because the up tempo offense gives him the ability to call plays/audible at the line, and that Eli is at his best when he is up tempo and reacting to the defense, and doing things with cadence to get them to show their hand. Said we're going to see more of that this year. It actually made me feel better about the offense, because I feel like the one drive that we've seen this pre-season was exactly that, so hopefully that's an actual glimpse of what the offense will look like over other stuff we've seen.
Papa then moved on to the recievers. Basically blamed Randle for all of the miscommunications. Said that Tom Coughlin was "sick and tired" of hearing "I saw one thing and he saw another" in the meeting room. He said Randle's miscommunication on third down was the "worst play of the game".
He said you always see Eli and Randle on the sideline pointing and talking, and one's gesturing one way, and the other is gesturing the other... Mentioned you never see him doing that with Cruz.
Said this is Randle's third year and it shouldn't be happening anymore.
He smiled in those pictures with JR's daughter.
Quote:
Guys like a statue.
He smiled in those pictures with JR's daughter.
He smiled in the picture where he was holding JR's daughter
what doesn't make sense is that we weren't having this many miscommunications between Eli and Randle in Gilbride's offense which arguably had more reads and adjustments. And now one that is supposedly simply is having them have major issues?
611 yards, 6 touchdowns is not "almost a thousand yards and double digit touchdowns"...
At this stage of his career, Randle should be taking his game to a very high level. Instead, he has not shown consistency and I question whether he can carry the load at WR like we need him to. I hope he has a great year but the apparent fuck-ups have me worried.
what doesn't make sense is that we weren't having this many miscommunications between Eli and Randle in Gilbride's offense which arguably had more reads and adjustments. And now one that is supposedly simply is having them have major issues?
What are you talking about?
There were tons of mis-communications last year
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what were his stats last year? oh yeah almost a thousand yards and double digit touchdowns. He needs to work harder to stop with the mental screw ups but its up to the coaches to use him effectively and get him to minimize these mistakes, not keep asking him to do things he struggles at. That's not putting the player in position to succeed. More the definition of insanity.
611 yards, 6 touchdowns is not "almost a thousand yards and double digit touchdowns"...
Well ... Rounding those numbers ... the statement is factually correct ... 1000 yards and 10 TDs ...
And on the average every American has one testicle and one ovary ... is also factually correct ...
Toomer caught 1 pass his first year in the league and 16 his second year with 1 td.
Randle caught 19 passes his first year and 41 with 6 td's his second.
Seems like he must be doing something to further his NFL career. BTW, Cruz doesn't think this is a big deal.
I guess he *could* be an idiot and what he's "seeing" is a route that leads him right into an awaiting defender or the goalpost or a Gatorade bucket on the sidelines. But couldn't he just see something that would work just as well as what Eli sees?
Wait, isn't it an instant ban for mentioning that name?
Dave - if Randle put up those types of numbers nobody on BBI would care if he changed his name to Forrest Gump.
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totally messed up the call on the trey junkin fiasco.
Wait, isn't it an instant ban for mentioning that name?
RAY HANDLEY
I guess he *could* be an idiot and what he's "seeing" is a route that leads him right into an awaiting defender or the goalpost or a Gatorade bucket on the sidelines. But couldn't he just see something that would work just as well as what Eli sees?
He's had the same issues with Nassib and Painter this off/preseason, when he's been out there with them.
It's him.
I know that I was not the only one who questioned if Collinworth was basing his point of view on the content of the earlier article and then went a step further. I had trouble believing that the source on the Giants would be vague with the beat writers but so definite and clear with the visiting TV guy.
I seem to recall Eric saying something about hearing rumors that Toomer was "dumb as dirt."
I don't know anything about AT's intelligence but I distinctly remember him saying that he made a "mental commitment" do become the best WR he possibly could. He worked harder, trained more, took up marital arts, etc.
Well we all know that after a few season, Toomer righted his ship and became a very productive WR. The most productive WR in Giants history in fact.
My point is that it is too soon to give up on Randle, who comes to the team with several similarities to Toomer.
Both were second round picks from big schools, where they both relied FAR more on their physical gifts than polished techniques to succeed at the college level. Both started out fielding punts early in their careers. Both guys struggled early as starters.
Sure, it would be best if everything clicked for Randle THIS year, but if it doesn't, it doesn't mean you give up on him. At some point, Beckham will get on the field, and either push Randle to do better and keep his job, or Beckham will take it from him, and the problem will work itself out that way.
I know that I was not the only one who questioned if Collinworth was basing his point of view on the content of the earlier article and then went a step further. I had trouble believing that the source on the Giants would be vague with the beat writers but so definite and clear with the visiting TV guy.
That happens all the time. I know for a fact Andy Reid was much more open with the national guys than he was the beat guys...
And, of course, Eli has never thrown a misplaced ball to RR.
NEVER.
That happens all the time. I know for a fact Andy Reid was much more open with the national guys than he was the beat guys...
It's possible that Collinworth was given the straight scoop. It's just that there haven't been too many clear cut cases where the national guy get better info before the Giants beat writer as far as I can remember. I do know Gaziano's predecessor seems to be still wired in but I can't think of too many others.
And, of course, Eli has never thrown a misplaced ball to RR.
NEVER.
I think that Eli's track record over the years leads people to suspect that most cases of clear cut mis-communications probably are the receiver's fault. That's not extonerating Eli from his obvious mistakes or poor throws. Especially when Eli tends to acknowledge afterwards when he messes up or makes a poor throw.
What are you talking about?
There were tons of mis-communications last year
there were not that many miscommunications with Randle last year relative to how many there were with everyone. The offense was a #@%show last year with the line we had.
Toomer caught 1 pass his first year in the league and 16 his second year with 1 td.
Randle caught 19 passes his first year and 41 with 6 td's his second.
Seems like he must be doing something to further his NFL career. BTW, Cruz doesn't think this is a big deal.
And of course if you look at passing statics from them til now you'd find that they are exponentially higher due to till changes. So I guess it's not ok to use 20 20 hindsight but it is OK to ignore not only the opportunities Ramdle got but also whomRandle played w. Who was the great all pro WRs Amani got to play w because having Cruz and Nicks certainly also helped give him opportunities to catch passes.
Randle may or may not be this years whipping boy but if he's earned it why can't people bring up that the guy usually has no clue what route he's supposed to run?
And, of course, Eli has never thrown a misplaced ball to RR.
NEVER.
Bleedin Blue : 8/22/2014 3:28 pm
Frustrated he's not getting the looks he should be getting. He also said he's finding it hard to grasp McAdoo's new offense. We need a Vet to shake these young guys up! That's not Eli's M.O. and I don't think Cruz is that typeeither.
Another bbi member did everyone a favor and transcribed what was actually said:
Here was the full transcript of what was said
BigBlueinChicago : 8/23/2014 12:06 pm : link
This comes from Josina Anderson's live report on Sportscenter:
Quote:
"Wide receiver Reuben Randle says that right now this Giants offense is going through a deprogramming process right now. Particularly that wide receivers group. Randle said that in their former coordinator Kevin Gilbride's system that "we had a certain yardage by which things were happening by, but now things happen by the clock"...and Eli Manning said with that three step and five step timing... Randle also added that, "look, it's not about us and feeling comfortable in an offense that was more deep pass oriented last year. He said what we're doing right now is trying to get adjusted, so running our steps, getting open in a shorter amount of time by a specific time.
(Interview follows with Eli Manning for 30 seconds before the live shot goes back to Josina)
"Meanwhile, Randle admitted to me that it's been a bit frustrating trying to get adjusted to Ben McAdoo's system. He told me, "You know, we see things in practice that we can do in the game and right now I'm not getting those opportunities, so it's a bit frustrating. He says he's trying to gain Eli Manning's trust, but he knows that it's a long system and he's a team player and all he can do is focus on what he can improve."
NFL Insiders Ruben Randle - ( New Window )
Manning had a slightly different take. He blamed the misconnection, in part, on it being a play they hadn't run to this point in the preseason.
"Well, we’ve just got to get the timing down so we’ll look at it on film. I thought it was a little off so we’ve got to fix that," he said. "It’s a play that we haven’t really run in games much, we’ve run it in practice but never really quite got the look we wanted. I wanted to run it just so we got… I knew we needed to work on it in a live situation and sure enough, it didn’t go like we wanted to so it’s something we can continue to work on."
What did Giants coach Tom Coughlin think was the worst play of the night against Patriots? - ( New Window )
BSIMATT. I stand corrected! I could not find a link, I'm sorry I'm not as internet Savvy as others. I tried to bring up that Thread but could not go back that far, cause I wanted to see if someone found a link. I don't remember Josina stating the first paragraph, but it appears I misquoted her second. I will do my due diligence before reporting a story.
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Guys like a statue.
What the hell is that white under his nose on that second picture?
That is why I don't see this offense gelling until week 3 or 4. It will take running the new offense under actual game conditions to get it down. We've heard them say "we've looked good in practice" only to not look in sync game time. I think until the new offense gels our defense will be able to keep us in games. We will definitely see a lot of runs and short passes to the backs til we get it right. I want to stay positive in my hopes for this season, and the defense helps me to.
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Some of you are engaging in 20-20 hindsight with the Toomer comparisons.
Toomer caught 1 pass his first year in the league and 16 his second year with 1 td.
Randle caught 19 passes his first year and 41 with 6 td's his second.
Seems like he must be doing something to further his NFL career. BTW, Cruz doesn't think this is a big deal.
And of course if you look at passing statics from them til now you'd find that they are exponentially higher due to till changes. So I guess it's not ok to use 20 20 hindsight but it is OK to ignore not only the opportunities Ramdle got but also whomRandle played w. Who was the great all pro WRs Amani got to play w because having Cruz and Nicks certainly also helped give him opportunities to catch passes.
Randle may or may not be this years whipping boy but if he's earned it why can't people bring up that the guy usually has no clue what route he's supposed to run?
Quote:
Some of you are engaging in 20-20 hindsight with the Toomer comparisons.
Toomer caught 1 pass his first year in the league and 16 his second year with 1 td.
Randle caught 19 passes his first year and 41 with 6 td's his second.
Seems like he must be doing something to further his NFL career. BTW, Cruz doesn't think this is a big deal.
And of course if you look at passing statics from them til now you'd find that they are exponentially higher due to till changes. So I guess it's not ok to use 20 20 hindsight but it is OK to ignore not only the opportunities Ramdle got but also whomRandle played w. Who was the great all pro WRs Amani got to play w because having Cruz and Nicks certainly also helped give him opportunities to catch passes.
Randle may or may not be this years whipping boy but if he's earned it why can't people bring up that the guy usually has no clue what route he's supposed to run?
Cruz and Nicks both had poor years last year, not all pro years by any stretch, not remotely close. So that theory is shot. In fact, Randle's best games have actually come when he's filled in Nicks, not with Nicks on the field. Also, Randle last year out produced Manningham's 2011 season, the year Nicks and Cruz exploded: higher yards per catch, higher catch rate, higher yards per target, more catches, yards, touchdowns.