G. Rosenthal (NFL.com) Eli = # 20 QB

2013 ELi was the outlier...based on facts anyway.

In comment 11839779 djm said:

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2013 ELi was the outlier...based on facts anyway.

lets not let facts get in the way of "analysis"...

I love Eli and appreciate all he has brought us and how he has so often risen to the occasion. That said, Eli has himself to blame for the perceptions some have of him.

We know how good he can be, and we've seen how absolutely awful he can be, and how foolish he can sometimes be in throwing some of the passes he attempts.

Lets hope that we get the good and wise Eli this year.

Hold last season and this preseason against Eli.

Eli was easily in the top 10 in terms of FF stats. IN terms of winning NFL games and postseason success ELi was top 5.

Maybe he's shot. Maybe he's done. But if you assume that Eli reverts back to what he was doing his entire career he will be closer to the 25-27 TD guy and not the 18 TD guy from last year.

OR, maybe he meets in the middle with this new offense and is more of a 22 TD guy with 16 INTS. We shall see..

correction...

through 2012, Eli was arguably a top 5 QB. that's a fairly large chunk of his career.

he also won a division in '05 and got a playoff berth in '06 (albeit as a .500 team).

Rosenthal is a fucktard.

And once again tells all these douche nozzles to suck a bag of dicks.

Unfortunately I am not sure that can happen with the lack of talent at WR and TE not to mention a patchwork o-line. But I will keep hoping and praying.

sort of what led to the ridiculous elite question from Kay. Still think 2009 and 2011 are the best Eli years. 2008, I was more impress with the Giants running game. That game against the Ravens and that defense was amazing. It was a balance offensive team and tremendous defense. The Lost Season.

what Eli isn't a franchise QB anymore? He's not next level? I feel disgusting even trying to rationalize with these categories. Just a total lack of respect and perspective on a career.

this is the same guy who used to write for rotoworld and would blatantly troll Yankee fans while always looking for excuses for his beloved Red Sox.

In comment 11839866 Enzo said:

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this is the same guy who used to write for rotoworld and would blatantly troll Yankee fans while always looking for excuses for his beloved Red Sox.

Are sure you are not thinking of Ken Rosenthal?

In comment 11839895 Mason said:

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In comment 11839866 Enzo said: Quote: this is the same guy who used to write for rotoworld and would blatantly troll Yankee fans while always looking for excuses for his beloved Red Sox. Are sure you are not thinking of Ken Rosenthal?

um, yeah. Pretty sure. Ken Rosenthal never wrote for rotoworld.

covers NFL and Ken covers baseball. And Ken has been known to mix it up with some fans over the years.

ill take the rings any day.. Let Aaron and Drew and Peyton throw up stats and enjoy the ONE..

Tannehill
RG3
Foles
CK
Flacco

all decisively above eli?

No thanks.


Eli belongs in the middle of the league. There's no shot i'd take any of those guys I mentioned up top over him.

Flacco and Eli are basically guys that suffer the same faults, and every other QB listed above just plain sucks or is mediocre and has never improved his teammates.

and a modicum of mobility

In comment 11839971 JOMO25 said:

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and a modicum of mobility

has a lower completion % and is prone to all the same mistakes eli makes.

So now Eli better be ELIte.
But how can anyone accuse Eli of being consistent in his time here?
I love the guy for what he has done for us, but please he does not raise the level of those around him. He does not spread the ball around, and he can not avoid pressure as all QB's with very few exceptions need to do to keep a drive going.

Are all statistically consistent, except for yards in 2011 and Ints in 2010. Rosenthal is a fool.

...and Eli has been undeniably bad since mid-season 2012. But what kind of annoys me is writers completely ignore the high INTs of other QBs like Drew Brees, who had nearly as many as Eli in 2010 (22 to Eli's 25) and led the league in INTs in 2012. No one said Brees's best days were over after 2012.

Eli. The fact os that is the perception of him outside of Giants fans. With many Giants fans as well.

2x the TD passes and way more yards

he threw for 600 more yards and 2 more TDs. Big freakin' deal.

that if/when Eli has the time to throw, he is missing his receivers and/or making bad decisions which is what led to all those INTs last year? Do you really believe that?

Do I believe he is oe of the 3 least mobile QBs in the league? Yes. Is it absurd to compare him to Brees? Yes.

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In comment 11839996 SB said:

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...and Eli has been undeniably bad since mid-season 2012. But what kind of annoys me is writers completely ignore the high INTs of other QBs like Drew Brees, who had nearly as many as Eli in 2010 (22 to Eli's 25) and led the league in INTs in 2012. No one said Brees's best days were over after 2012.

In 2010, Eli threw a pick on 4.6% of his passes while Brees threw a pick on 3.3% of his passes, which is why Eli gets shit and Brees doesn't.

like comparing Bradshaw to Peterson, its so far from a reasonable comp its ridiculous

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how dare people AnyoneButPhilly : 9/3/2014 8:56 pm : link : reply Hold last season and this preseason against Eli.

Why in the fuck would you hold PRESEASON against anyone? How many people even know what the team is trying to accomplish in preseason, let alone hold performances against proven starters.

These are the type of posts that should be used when somebody chimes in on the great football analysis here.

That is complete horseshit.

Probably around where Eli is now. Similar situation: ten-year veteran QB who, a few years earlier, seemed bound for a Hall of Fame career, struggles through a miserable season-and-a-half as the offensive system grows stale and the talent around him slips. It took a couple more years for the Broncos to turn around, but Elway's revival under Fassel was dramatic, although the only other notable skill-position player on the 1993 Broncos was Shannon Sharpe. (They also added Gary Zimmerman to protect Elway's back.)

Eli could keep sliding like Donovan McNabb and many others, or revive like Elway, or do something in between. I tend to agree with those who say he isn't the main problem, or at least that there's no way to know whether he's the problem until a lot of other stuff gets fixed.

Eli is on this board versus reality....he's not close to the stratosphere of Elway, Brees

and take a look at Brett Favre's 2005 stats.
Very similar to Eli's 2013 and Favre is headed to Canton.

statistical evidence I presented to you last week that said he was similar to Elway, doesn't make it untrue.

In comment 11840351 mrvax said:

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and take a look at Brett Favre's 2005 stats. Very similar to Eli's 2013 and Favre is headed to Canton.

I've compared Eli to a poor man's Favre in terms of gunslinger mentality, etc. There have been plenty of QB's better than Eli who have had shit years in the middle of their careers that give me hope that Eli will be bounce back and be fine.

of GREAT QBs that Eli is now close to but compared to on BBI

when he just wants to downgrade the quarterback who brought us 2 recent Superbowl wins. Just disgusting and JOMO probably needs a donkey punch.

once again, the passing efficiency of the 80s/90s isn't apples to apples versus now

In comment 11840391 JOMO25 said:

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of GREAT QBs that Eli is now close to but compared to on BBI

JOMO, my comparison is fairly narrow, limited to his risky style of play. Not caliber of player.

are going to have a great battle all year on who will be the most insufferable poster.

I truly believe they rooted against the Giants in SB 42 and 46 hoping Eli lost.

there is being a fan and there are opinions...the latter is supposed to be objective and not shaped by the former

you guys are making silly comps about a guy who is generally mediocre (although it must be noted that he a) came up big twice on the biggest of stages b) has been very durable)...so while a)and b) elevate his legacy above mediocre, let's not kid ourselves and elevate him among the greatest of all time

Eli isn't 'generally mediocre'.

He's consistently been a top 10-12 QB since 2006.

right, wrong, or indifferent for public consumption.



And this post from 2009 where the comparison was talked about right here on BBI, five years ago:

Eli Manning and John Elway - Parallel Beginnings
mikewaldwick : 11/25/2009 7:15 pm
Eli Manning and John Elway’s NFL careers began the exact same way. After 88 starts you’ll see their stats are very similar as well.

Even though, in my opinion, today’s QB, in general, has become more of a dink and dunk position (resulting in higher passer ratings), as we saw on Sunday, Eli’s style of down-the-field passing is similar to when Elway played.

What I found very interesting is that the Giants and Broncos were LAST PLACE teams the year before Eli and Elway were drafted. Two years later, after their first full season, both the Giants and Broncos were FIRST PLACE teams.

Two years ago this comparison may have been slightly insulting to John Elway fans but Eli is definitely closing the gap with his play over the last couple years.

Eli and Elway after 88 total starts (81 Regular Season starts and 7 playoff starts)

DRAFTED: Eli first overall/traded, Elway first overall/traded
RECORD YEAR BEFORE DRAFT: Giants 2003: 4-12 (last), Broncos 1982: 2-7 (last-strike season)
RECORD AFTER FIRST FULL SEASON 2005-Giants 11-5 (first), 1984-Broncos 13-3 (first)
SUPER BOWLS: Eli 1, Elway 0
TOTAL RECORD: Eli 52-36 .591, Elway 57-30-1 .655
REG SEASON RECORD: Eli 48- 33 .593, Elway 53-27-1 .663
PLAYOFF RECORD: Eli 4-3 .571, Elway 4-3 .571
STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE: Eli .535, Elway .518
AVG. RANK OF DEFENSES PLAYED AGAINST (YDS): Eli 15.1, Elway 17.6**
PASSER RATING: Eli 78.1, Elway 74.1
ATT: Eli 2,781, Elway 2,788
COMP: Eli 1,576, Elway 1,515
COMP PCT: Eli 56.7%, Elway 54.3%
PASSING YARDS: Eli 18,311, Elway 19,330
NET PASSING YARDS: Eli 17,296, Elway 17,981
YARDS/ATT: Eli 6.6, Elway 6.9
TD: Eli 124, Elway 111
INT: Eli 90, Elway 103
4th QTR/OT COMEBACKS: Eli 17, Elway 17
SACKS/YARDS: Eli 147/1,015, Elway 178/1,349

**Elways competitors ranked 15.4 in defense out of 28 teams which equates to 17.6 against 32 teams

Link - ( New Window )

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Which is right where Eli is now.

has made a lot of people look like idiots in the past. You know, the ones that raise the level of guys like Josh Freeman, Mark Sanchez, RG III, Matt Schaub, Alex Smith or Michael Vick, all of whom have had posters here try to reason were(or are) better QB's than Eli.

10-12 isn't exactly far from there

...I could have put him on a level not only with Brees and Elway, but with any QB I've ever seen in 40+ years of watching the NFL. He was that good, behind a very mediocre offensive line.

Was that title run (along with other, lesser hot streaks earlier in his career) a random aberration? Maybe. In any case, the longer his slump continues, the more of a fluke 2011 seems to have been, and the less likely he seems to repeat it. You can't completely dismiss Eli's highs, though. He was ridiculously good.

In comment 11840438 Blue Baller said:

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10-12 isn't exactly far from there

I meant that he was within the top 12, not necessarily the 10-12th best QB. I think most years he's been in the 6-8 range.

the two runs, the durability.