I stumbled upon this article while reading the grantland season preview. If you read this today knowing what happened to David Wilson and that Linval is gone it makes the article even worse. Our drafts have ranged anywhere from unlucky to downright pathetic. Jerry has got be on notice. 2010 was an absolute crusher of a draft. No need to look any further for the reason why last year happened and this year needed a free agent frenzy.
At least he is off to a good start with Odell right guys?!?!? FML
Jerry's kids. - (
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Live through the 70's through mid- 80's then get back to me?
You owe me a reheated dinner.
Oh and I did live through the 70's and 80's. What's that got to do with the fact Reese has done a terrible job of late building a team.
Has he stuck on a roster yet this season?
Has he stuck on a roster yet this season?
Looks like he was cut by Seahawks recently
1st round picks: Wilson, Prince, JPP, Nicks, Phillips, Ross.
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Bad picks? IMO, none of them. JPP and Nicks showed pro-bowl/all-pro potential, although since injury the jury is still out on them. Reese's fault they got injured? Not really - neither were drafted with a history of injury. Wilson and Phillips showed amazing abilities prior to their injuries, with Wilson making it to the Pro Bowl in his rookie year as a returner. Prince is a solid, still up-and-coming starter. Ross is perhaps the biggest disappointment of the bunch, yet he contributed significantly before eventual decline.
Verdict: 6/6 or 100% by Reese. No stinkers/wasted picks at all. You might have rather they picked someone else, but nobody here was an outright bad pick. Considering a six year record of drafts, to not have missed on a single first rounder gives Reese an A in the first round.
2nd round picks: Smith, Thomas, Sintim, Beatty, Joseph, Austin, Randle.
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Bad picks? Certainly Sintim and Austin leap out at you since they never contributed at all. However let's also consider that they both suffered injuries early on, and those were significant injuries that prevented them from being able to get valuable developmental reps. Sintim didn't come with an injury history, so you can't really blame Reese for mis-evaluating that risk. Austin was a known risk - Reese definitely gambled there. Yet the book is not closed with him yet. After surgery, he appears to be having a renaissance of sorts this year in Denver. It will be interesting to see how his career plays out going forward.
It's certainly looking more likely that Randle was a bad pick, or at the least a reach. But he's still on the team - is currently planning to start on Monday, and has had more success in his first two years on the field than previous second rounder Amani (no jewlze, just regular) Toomer. Hard to really call him conclusively a bad pick.
Beatty has started and earned a raise for his play. He may not live up to that contract, but so far, it's hard to say that he hasn't delivered what can be expected from a late second rounder.
Smith, Thomas, and Joseph were all beasts at their positions until injuries or free agency hit. Of these three, only Thomas was an injury risk coming out of college, iirc. He's the only one that you might have known was a likely injury. But before he was done he played a valuable role on the Giants while healthy. Not exactly a terrible pick.
Verdict: Mixed bag - took some risks, got some good play at least for a while out of some, got killed by injuries, but overall only a couple here might have been stretches. My grade? B
3rd round: Hosley, Jernigan, Jones, Barden, Beckum, Manningham, and Alford.
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Okay, let's get the ugly out of the way. Clearly Barden was a total fail. Yes - he was injured regularly which certainly slowed his development. This isn't Reese's fault, as there was nothing to indicate he was at risk of injury prior to the draft. But he was a gamble that didn't pay out. Beckum is also a total fail. Again, we see a player who was injured regularly and wasn't able to get snaps - which clearly hindered his development. He finally was able to get on the field, and showed a couple of flashes before injuring himself yet again, and then the door.
Hosley, and Jernigan are still on the team - but the writing appears to be on the wall for both of these players. Clearly the Giants didn't see enough in Hosley to slow them down from investing BIG TIME at his position in an effort to upgrade there. Is a backup slot CB worthy of the 83rd pick of the draft? Jernigan is also a man who appears to be on the bubble. Injuries early on also limited his snaps in camp, clearly slowing his development. He showed enough flashes last year to cause Mara to question publicly why he wasn't given a chance earlier (which was a sentiment many agreed with at the time). Yet it is clear, after the Giants selected OBJ with the 12th overall pick, that the Giants don't consider him much more than a viable backup to Cruz. Maybe that's not so bad, considering the threat that Cruz has been.
Injuries shortened or ended the careers of Alford and Jones before they really got going. Alford of course was really coming on in his rookie season. I remember a stat (and I can be wrong about this) that said he had the most snaps of any DL in the Super Bowl. Of course we all will cherish the memory of him pancaking Brady in the games final moments. Jones' story is simply tragic. A complete fluke - no way to blame Reese for this pick.
Manningham was a guy who flashed, made some plays occasionally (including one we all celebrated!), before injuries eventually left him on the outside looking in. How do you rate a guy like that? Was he a bad pick? I'd say yes if we were talking about a top 40 pick in the draft. But for the 95th player selected? I'd say he more than earned his draft position.
The verdict? A mixed bag, as should be expected at this point. A couple bad picks, some guys who played for a while and contributed, and others who appeared to have a bright future at some point prior to injury. I'd say Reese gets a C+ here.
4th Round: DeOssie, Kehl, Brown, Dillard, Brewer, Robinson.
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Okay - here's where things get pretty ugly. Of these picks, Dillard was clearly the worst. He was clearly a bad pick. No excuses there. Kehl was also a missed opportunity. The talent was there, but he never put it together on the field, and my thinking is that he was just too nice a guy overall to have the meanness top LBers need to play tough.
Robinson and Brewer are the guys who are on the verge of proving they were wasted picks. By all accounts these guys are barely holding on to their roster spots, and it wouldn't surprise any of us if either one were a healthy cut before the season ends, should a talent shake loose elsewhere.
Brown was a talented guy whose injuries really cost him the opportunity to shine. Having said that my recollection is that he was an injury risk coming out of college - having had his share of down time there. Overall - a risk, but what do you expect when the first 128 players are already off the board?
DeOssie is clearly a winner - well worth a fourth round pick.
Verdict: The fourth round is where you can find gems that have dropped who can contribute in some way. Reese has really only scored one solid contributor in these six drafts. For this reason, he gets a D- from me.
Rounds 5-7: Boss, Koets, Johnson, Bradshaw, Woodson, Henderson, Bomar, Wright, Woodson, Petrus, Tracy, Dodge, Jones, Sash, Williams, Scott, McCants and Kuhn.
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Okay - lots of misses here, as can be expected by this point in the draft. Let's start instead with players who outplayed their draft position. Bradshaw leads this list. He was a great pickup as the 250th pick overall. Other notables - Boss was a good pick. Williams has certainly played as well as one could hope for - and at this point in his career appears to still have his arrow pointing up. Johnson played well considering his draft position for a time. Yes, he was limited athletically but he actually did contribute on the field. Sash was a contributor, at least on specials for a while. Kuhn has earned space on a talented line, in spite of a lack of experience and his injury last year. Petrus didn't make it as a starter, but he DID make the team as a backup, and when his number was called in the GB playoff game he held his own out there. McCants didn't make the cut early, but appears to be pleasing people on his second NFL team.
Then we have the guys who never should have been drafted. This list is embarrassing. Koets, Woodson, Henderson, Bomar, Wright, Woodson (redux), Tracy, Dodge, Jones and Scott. That's ten names that were complete misses in my book.
Verdict? So the score in the final three rounds? Three great picks (Bradshaw, Boss, and Williams), and five picks who at least made a contribution vs. 10 picks that were just mistakes. I know this is a bad ratio - would be devastating if we were talking about the top 3 rounds, and some teams have seen ratios like these at the top. But out of the bottom three rounds, while not stellar, it is an average haul, and I'm giving him a C.
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In conclusion - Reese's drafts have been more injury plagued than plain poor picks. Generally speaking picks made in the top 100 have turned into pros, with few exceptions, unless the injury bug hit. Lots of people criticize him for reaching for projects - boom or bust guys like Barden and Robinson. Yet I contend that when you're dealing with a well-built roster, with few holes and loaded with veterans that are playing well, you SHOULD be taking risks with your later picks. Anyone limited has truly NO CHANCE of replacing a starter unless by default. So I fail to blame Reese for taking risks through the 2011 season, as this team was considered a contender with no real holes in the roster through that season.
I do think he missed in considering the longevity of his starters, particularly on the OL. Also, his LB picks have not gone particularly well, although this year's draft pick (Kennard) is swinging the pendulum back toward the win column.
In conclusion - in my analysis Reese has not been an ace in the draft, but he's been a solid B overall.
Sorry for the long post.
Easy to slam a draft, but my guess is Reese has performed at or better than league average with his drafts. Injuries certainly can skew things nnegatively. Folks conflating loosing players to FA with bad drafting just off base.
Overall, I'd say you were a little too kind to Reese for the first round. All teams need to count on their 1st round picks for contributions, so 6/6 is good but not great without netting a couple consistent all pros.
You also graded round 3 a little higher than I would have. Our success rate only looks to be about 50% or so here.
Reese has done as well as most with his late round picks. No better than a 20% success ratio (in terms of a pro contribution, not necessarily a starter) for players taken in round 5 or later is probably to be expected.Injuries take their toll on players taken on these rounds also. Koets is a guy that might have had a better career save for injury.
And (if Beckham can ever get on the field) the 2013 and 2014 drafts look pretty famn good so far.
Why are you bitching about snide comments in response?
Injuries happen but man oh man have we been hit hard with bad ones.
Praying for better this year and beyond.
...when he can pick up solid players like Adam Snyder off the waiver wire?
Draft?
Who needs the Draft?
Any time he passed on a top OL in favor of a lesser player at another position, was a mistake.
1) Pugh - a surprise pick which turned out to be a very good one
2) Hankins - Contributed off the bench as a rookie and looks to be an effective starter now.
3) Moore - Was good on special teams last year and got a lot of pressure in pre-season.
4 & 6) Nassib - This pick was ridiculed last year as a wasted pick. How times change.
5) Taylor - Was coming into his own in preseason until he was injured.
7) Herman & Cox - Cox would be ok as a third or fourth rb. Herman was starting to look ok until injured.
Just two more drafted players we don't have on our roster. Actually with Joseph being one of the best players he ever drafted more of an effort should have been made to sign the guy. We will miss him this year. We do not have anyone as stout against the run as him.
That article just shows some pathetic picks along with some horrendous luck. Maybe we did make deals with the devil to win the last two Superbowls. The injury streak of highly drafted players is nuts.
Reese's Pieces : 9/3/2014 10:47 pm : link : reply
on a player who has an injury history in college.
Quote:
Reese should never use another premium draft pick
Reese's Pieces : 9/3/2014 10:47 pm : link : reply
on a player who has an injury history in college.
Webster, Thomas, Kiwanuka, and Tuck were all guys who fell due to injuries in their collegiate career.
The 'strategy' of drafting guys with injury concerns has worked out extraordinarily well for us. There are a few where it hasn't, but the risk/reward is very attractive.
It's such a silly criticism because it's worked out incredibly well for us.
Quote:
because of what happened with Wilson and Joseph? One was found to have a congenital disease that escaped pre-draft testing, the other was signed away from us as a very expensive FA after several years of good play.
Just two more drafted players we don't have on our roster. Actually with Joseph being one of the best players he ever drafted more of an effort should have been made to sign the guy. We will miss him this year. We do not have anyone as stout against the run as him.
That article just shows some pathetic picks along with some horrendous luck. Maybe we did make deals with the devil to win the last two Superbowls. The injury streak of highly drafted players is nuts.
You didn't answer my question - Joseph left, and maybe we should have done more to retain him (although he cost a LOT of money). How is that an indictment of our draft ability? That's exactly what you want - to draft guys outside the first round who develop into premium FAs. Even if you can't retain him, you tend to get comp picks in return for their departure.
big flop rate of highly drafted OLs and the diff in their play just isn't there between the OLs u can get later
look at richburg vs. martin - give me richburg in the 2nd over martin @12. now if u want both of them, fine
Area junc, I definitely would have liked to have BOTH Martin and Richburg. Nothing against Beckham, I just think the OL is such a mess that the old George Young approach was warranted.
You'd think we were a long suffering fanbase by looking at some of the posts here, not a team with 2 recent super bowl wins.
Good: So far it seems that Reese has done a lot better in the 2013 & 2014 drafts. Hope this keeps up.
You'd think we were a long suffering fanbase by looking at some of the posts here, not a team with 2 recent super bowl wins.
The reason I brought the article up was because it was linked in the Grantland preview of the upcoming season. And not for nothing that preview was pretty sobering.
I am hopeful that the free agent spending spree can right the ship but am also a realist and know that the horrendous luck we have had drafting is setting us up for failure. The only saving grace is that Coughlin is a damn good leader of men and will most likely keep the team together enough to make us relevant. 7-9 with last years team may have been his best coaching job ever.
Look at Ozzie Newsome who is considered one of the best. Until you compare other teams picking in similar draft positions, you will never get a true comparison.
The Ravens in 2008 drafted Flacco 1 and Rice 2. They had 3 3rd picks that year and 2 4th rd picks.
The 3 3rd rd picks contributed nothing. The 4th rd picks were out of the league in 2 years. That is still a good draft
Look at his 1st 3 in 09 - M. Oher, P. Kruger, L. Webb - Oher was terrible, Kruger parlayed 5 good games into a new contract and then was bad again. Webb was good
Look at the 1st 3 picks in 2010 - S. Kindle, T. Cody, E. Dickson
2011 - J. Smith, T. Smith, J Reid, T Doss - is that good
You win in this league hitting on the 1st 2 rounds and hoping to get 1/2 of your 3's. After that the majority of those players change teams all the time.
We can only hope to have that kind of terrible on the OL
You really going to say that's terrible with a straight face?
He failed twice at LT - so much so they brought in Bryant McKinnie off the scrap heap and then made a trade for Eugene Monroe. He then played RT next to a Pro Bowl player and was bad. They had to play him
For thought:
John Jerry has started 57 of 64 possible games in his NFL career - how is he viewed.
Doug Free has started 64 straight games and he is not a good T
Levi Brown started 59 straight games and was considered 1 of the worst T in the game
Starting does not equate to being a good player on the OL
Point is he was a 1st rd pick. If Reese picked him and he played like he did for 5 years, Reese would be vilified - oh wait... Beatty has played 6 terrible games at LT and Reese catches shit for it
Ira : 6:26 am : link : reply
Reese for the bad drafts, we should give him credit for the good ones.
1) Pugh - a surprise pick which turned out to be a very good one
Played well for a rookie last year.....did not look as good as in preseason as a veteran...
2) Hankins - Contributed off the bench as a rookie and looks to be an effective starter now.
He's not an effective starter until he plays a whole season as a starter......at this time, he is not as good as LJ....
3) Moore - Was good on special teams last year and got a lot of pressure in pre-season.
Still a complete unknown....
4 & 6) Nassib - This pick was ridiculed last year as a wasted pick. How times change.
Huge difference between last year and this.....but by no means is he ready to be a starting qb...
5) Taylor - Was coming into his own in preseason until he was injured.
Another one who was playing better....but can't stay on the field.....and isn't starter material yet....
7) Herman & Cox - Cox would be ok as a third or fourth rb. Herman was starting to look ok until injured.
This is a real stretch.....Cox made it because of his cap number, and we had no one else....Herman has done nothing....
Unfortunately, Reese has had a lot of bad luck with injuires...but some already came with baggage when drafted, i.e., TT, A. Brown, Taylor, etc.
Never mind that. Everybody's an expert.
And the Pugh pick was only a surprise to the fans who freaked the fuck out because of the length of his arms.
1. Jason Pierre-Paul On Giants roster
2. Linval Joseph Left in FA
3. Chad Jones Out of football
4. Phillip Dillard Out of football
5. Mitch Petrus Out of football
6. Adrian Tracy Out of football
7. Matt Dodge Out of football
Reading that article, it really is quite stunning to see so many Giant draft picks listed as "Out of football"