Tiki Barber

Had he played two or more seasons at that top level, he'd be in the HOF.

He was a great player and I agree that it's a shame we didn't get to see a longer career from him. But I think a hall of fame career requires more than what he accomplished. A few more years and he'd be there, but he doesn't have those few more quality years. I don't actually think it's close, let alone a travesty.

2 more years of productivity and he would have been a lock imv

especially given Bettis got in, Tiki was a superior player during his peak.

AP's an all-time great, Shady's not on that level yet.

never got a ring. Didn't deserve one and doesn't deserve the HoF. He quit on his team and trashed his teammates.

Already been a couple time finalist, and I think an easy argument could be made tiki was better. More yards from scrimmage in several fewer seasons. Far superior peak and prime, way more efficient back overall. I wouldnt put either in, but if I had to take one its tiki. They retired 1 year apart, bettis is a multi time finalist and barber cant get a sniff. I dont give a fuck what anyone says, I would take tikis career over his

after they retire, particularly running backs, I don't fault Tiki for leaving early. I think he had a HOF career when you consider his rushing and receiving yards which I think is what we should focus on instead of just rushing yards. I also think he was better than Bettis so it bothers me that Bettis is in but Tiki won't be.

You guys don't think the 12th player All-time in yards from scrimmage deserves to be in the HOF? The only two ahead of him not in is Tomlinson and Owens. The 3 after him are Moss, Edgerrin and Dickerson. Dickerson is already in. Moss, Owens & LdT will be. Not sure on Edgerrin, but I think Tiki was better then him.

that Bettis will be in

He'll get in, popularity will put him over the top. For my money, Bettis isn't a HOF RB.

was too short, he was a HOF-level player for four seasons.

In comment 11843165 rebel yell said:

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never got a ring. Didn't deserve one and doesn't deserve the HoF. He quit on his team and trashed his teammates.

Oh goddammit get over it already.

It's likely not enough. Terrell Davis suffers from the same lack, and his four great seasons were easily HOF-worthy.

Definitely had 5 great seasons. His last 5 years he had 10,274 yards from scrimmage. I can't find it, but would love to see how many players have had a better 5 year stretch then that. Here were his totals from his last 5 seasons.


He had 1984, 1677, 2096, 2390 & 2127 yards from scrimmage. That is insane.

and won a SB with the '07 Giants I think he would have had a chance. As it stands now he won't be able to do it. He's kinda on cusp along with guys like Priest Holmes and Shaun Alexander - just not a big enough sample size and no championship for those guys.

That he had the most yards from scrimmage over a 7 year stretch in nfl history (2000 to 2006).

If yards from scrimmage was a more mainstream stat (no reason it shouldnt be, its not hard to understand) his career would be looked at differently. It doesnt have the shine that rushing yards does though, even though its more telling

.

Would have been awesome to see Tiki induct himself.

and appreciate how fortunate I was to have watched his career and that he played for the Giants. He truly was a joy to watch play the game. And while I was disappointed to see him retire I admire him for leaving on his terms and early enough that he had his health. It is too bad that the success of his post football career has paled in comparison to his NFL one.

... he has always been a class act ... he never complained, a leader who kept everyone together in the locker room, and was always a "team first" guy his entire career with the Giants

In comment 11843181 JonC said:

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It's likely not enough. Terrell Davis suffers from the same lack, and his four great seasons were easily HOF-worthy.

My sentiments exact, both had periods of HOF level play but not for the duration expected of those usually enshrined.

but truth be told while in uniform he was very loyal to the Giants, more so even than Strahan was during his tenure in a Giants uniform. Tiki did most of his talking after he retired.

In comment 11843165 rebel yell said:

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never got a ring. Didn't deserve one and doesn't deserve the HoF. He quit on his team and trashed his teammates.

Always one cry baby.

Get over it.

In comment 11843262 steve in ky said:

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but truth be told while in uniform he was very loyal to the Giants, more so even than Strahan was during his tenure in a Giants uniform. Tiki did most of his talking after he retired.

What would make you think I am being sarcastic? Aren't they all well known character traits everyone associates with Tiki Barber?

I have gone through this with Tiki. His best 7 seasons are each better than Thurman Thomas best 7. Only exception being tds 72-55 for Thomas.

Tiki played 28 less games, almost 2 full years and career avg per game rushing is 67.9 vs 66.3 for Thomas

YPA 4.7 vs 4.2 for Thomas - a half yard every attempt

he had 114 more career catches

yards from scrimmage career avg Tiki 101.6 vs Thomas 90.8

It is a pretty compelling argument If Thurman Thomas is a HOF why is Tiki not

had a few rushing + receiving season totals that are H.O.F......say what you will he was a premier player who may have retired to early. I still think he belongs in the H.O.F.

receiving totals are the icing on the cake and shouldn't be ignored.

But they have around 5000-6000 less yards then Tiki. He has a higher career YPC then both of them. I know they played in less games, but Tiki also got screwed earlier in his career with the drafting of Ron Dayne and then lost a good amount of TDs to Jacobs. Which were carries Tiki should have been getting. He was smaller, but he didn't seem to have a problem getting the job done in short yardage situations.

Tiki had about 450 more carries then Priest for about 2300 more yards. Even if Priest got those carries and kept the same YPC he wouldn't have reached Tiki's rushing yards. Tiki only 30 more carries then Alexander for about 980 more yards. Neither of them were close in receiving yards.

because he has a masters degree and a head on his shoulders and wanted to be able to keep up with his kids. We saw him on Sunday, we didn't see him Monday through Thursday. What he said after he left may be unforgiveable (it may not be, that's your choice) but he shouldn't be blamed for leaving.

Over valued his talents, his standing as a nyc athlete and seriously undervalued what a surefire hof career/numbers would have meant to both. The pregnant wife thing didn't help.

his problem is his personality cost him career opportunities. He comes across as stiff and phony. And had his "inside dirt" on the Giants been not been overtaken by events - had, for instance, Eli struggled in 2007 and Coughlin been fired after the season - we wouldn't hate him so much. He would merely have been speaking the truth.

In comment 11843262 steve in ky said:

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but truth be told while in uniform he was very loyal to the Giants, more so even than Strahan was during his tenure in a Giants uniform. Tiki did most of his talking after he retired.

Who do you think the anonymous source was when Tiki was playing? Particularly during the Coughlin years while Tiki was still around? Tiki did most of his talking without attribution, which is even worse.

I guess you forget it was Tiki who vocally defended Wellington Mara when Strahan publically questioned whether he could trust the Giants to keep their word during one of his many contract gripes.

And it wasn't Tiki who criticized and undermined Fassel when Fassel was out of town burying his mother.

If we look at track records it is at least as likely it was MS who added fuel to the fire when it comes to the press and Coughlin.

Tiki may have his faults but being a loyal NY Giants was never one of them.

I don't think his problem was that he came across as stiff and phony, it was that he is stiff and phony. Great player, loved watching him, but he was an ass as a person. He was struggling in his new role as an analyst/announcer and outed elie as awkward for his own benefit. It backfired on him and he has paid the price - regardless of what he says his intent was. And the shit with his ex wife doesn't help him and shouldn't. Probably an underrated player and appropriately rated as an asshole. Had his broadcasting career been better, he may have made the HOF, but at this point I don't think it is likely.

but a handful of people I know who were friendly with the guy either in school or later say he was actually very nice and personable. Whether that's generally true is anyone's guess.

Where he was passing relevant players on the all time leader board

His Head got bigger than his talent (sad) but it happens a lot.

to deal with public comments made by Barber that was ripping the Giants locker room apart. The 2006 season was like none I have ever remembered. There was a cancer in the locker room that was talked about more than the Giants play on the field. Tiki Barber was publicly blasting the coaching staff on his Thursday night radio show with his brother - this, in the middle of the season. Coughlin was being hounded by the media regarding Barber's rebellious attitude towards the coaching staff.

The fact is that Barber hated Tom Coughlin and Barber single handedly tore apart the fabric of the locker room. By the end of the 2006 season, every single media outlet and every one on BBI, assumed (no, KNEW) that Coughlin was being fired. And Barber was the leader of that uprising - very publicly - throughout the 2006 season.

And it is for that that I will never forgive Tiki Barber. I couldn't care less what Tiki Barber said AFTER he left the Giants. He couldn't hurt them then. It is what he said during 2006 (actually it started during 2005), that was unforgivable. He put himself and his personal feelings ahead of the team - and as a result he became a cancer that had to be removed if there was ever going to be a SB under Coughlin. Linked below is an article from Ralph Vacciano during the 2006 season and the problems in the locker room.
Link - ( New Window )

have good stats......but he was 32 years old....maybe he knew it was questionable if he could play at the same level the next year? The TV opportunity, that he was working for, was available......so he made the move.....

His problem was, he wanted to be on top right away....he didn't have the tools...he didn't want to work his way up.....he didn't want to "climb the hill" of becoming a good media guy....

So he had to be controversial....and he used Tom Coughlin and his team mates to further his career....he put all the pressure on himself.....he wanted to start out on top.....he put himself, in position to fail.....

great but selfish player. Never could understand his need to announce his retirement before the season was over. And thought he acted like a jerk letting Giants fans know if it wouldn't have been for Coughlin he would have stayed.

If what you take away from reading that article is that he is blaming all of that on Tiki alone then that only proves your personal prejudice against Tiki has clouded your objectivity.

Also Tiki is far from the first Giant to ever grumble at some point in his career. I guess people forget how the beloved Harry Carson sometimes spoke prior to the Parcells era.

If anyone looks objectively at Tiki's career as a Giant he should conclude that Tike was a great NY Giant football player and also one of the most loyal players to the Mara's and the uniform that ever played. Most of the hate from Tiki comes from what he said after he left. The fact is if he had simply retired and went on to open a local insurance agency he would be beloved by the majority. Fans need to get over it and quit acting like a teenager that got dumped on prom night.

In comment 11843574 steve in ky said:

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If what you take away from reading that article is that he is blaming all of that on Tiki alone then that only proves your personal prejudice against Tiki has clouded your objectivity. Also Tiki is far from the first Giant to ever grumble at some point in his career. I guess people forget how the beloved Harry Carson sometimes spoke prior to the Parcells era. If anyone looks objectively at Tiki's career as a Giant he should conclude that Tike was a great NY Giant football player and also one of the most loyal players to the Mara's and the uniform that ever played. Most of the hate from Tiki comes from what he said after he left. The fact is if he had simply retired and went on to open a local insurance agency he would be beloved by the majority. Fans need to get over it and quit acting like a teenager that got dumped on prom night.

Steve,

I did not say the article was ONLY about Tiki Barber, so I don't know where you get that from. What I am saying is that Tiki Barber was a selfish prick and a locker room cancer who hated TC and destroyed the 2006 season. In football, you can't win with a cancer inside the locker room. And in 2004-2006 there was a HUGE CANCER inside the Giants locker room. It didn't start and end with Tiki Barber. There were others. And there was a huge "cleaning out" that took place after the 2006 season - which was openly discussed in the media. ONE of the HUGE cancers in the locker room was Tiki Barber.

The thing was, I loved Tiki Barber. I go back to my weblog now and read about what I wrote - he was my favorite Giant. But that all began to crumble in 2005 and by the end of 2006, his "act" disgusted me. So, for me, it had ZERO to do with who he became after leaving the Giants and EVERYTHING to do with the asshole he was while he was still a Giant.

Was that he was my favorite Giant - not only for his playing but his intelligence and character - including how he interacted with us at the camp. His fall from grace as a commentator and perhaps (who knows the whole story?) as a husband in a young family knocked him off my pedestal.

I do agree that his body of work is not HOF worthy but the potential was there.

2007 season culminating with a ring he'd be HOF'er.
He wasn't used enough his first 3 to 4 years to be a HOF'er.

Add 2,000 yards running and another 1,000 receiving over those first four years and he may just be a HOF'er without a ring.

Close, but no cigar.

is a category C Hall of Famer. Using the comparison test to validate Barber isn't sound. I don't think at peak or career value Barber qualifies. I think OJ Anderson is more worthy than either of them. But Olive Head, which is what his teammates called him, so please don't go PC Patrol, has a ring & Thomas & Barber do not. Plus I think Barber is, indeed, a phony. I was not at all surprised that he left his wife & kids for a 24 year-old intern. He always pissed & moaned in Albany about how long camp was and how he missed his family ...

I always heard Thurman was a prick. I got to talk to him a few times over the last 2 summers because his son is involved in Diamond Nation. Thurm had his boy playing for a team from central Florida at the Field of Dreams tournament in Cooperstown. Nice guy. Genuine, unlike some people.