call me braindead because I don't think the NFL saw the video prior to making their inital ruling. Maybe I am being naive, but I can't imagine someone sees that video and says "Well 2 games will suffice!" and then move on. I also don't believe the NFL would be silly enough not to think this video might get leaked at some point.
iirc they had no official domestic violence policy. As part of this incident they created one, set a precedent with the rice suspension (that was wrong) saw the video, acknowledged their mistake and corrected it.
As a by-product the NFL create a domestic violence policy that is pioneering in professional sports, 6 games first offense, lifetime ban 2nd.
they reveal this to kick-off breast cancer/domestic violence awareness month in April.
what really happened is irrelevant, what's relevant is how it ended up
of the burden for mishandling many things, but its a league now where gay players are welcomed and wife-beaters are not. We are moving in the right direction.
First of all, I question whether or not this video is truly new to both the Ravens and the league office. Second of all, if it is, I applaud the Ravens.
On the flip side, how does the release of the video change anything? The allegations were that he hit her in the elevator. The video we saw once the elevator doors opened, she was unconscious. So, what did you think happened? Why does the video change anything? Abuse is abuse and he admitted to domestic abuse.
Also, the league since amended its policy on domestic abuse and this indefinite suspension is now in excess of what their new policy defines. This is still an example of inconsistent policy by the league.
Your first two statements contradict each other. If this is new evidence you applaud the Ravens? For what? Caving to public pressure?
Based on your second statement, you basically state there's no difference because it's clear he knocked her out, so why wouldn't you be of the opinion that the Ravens should have done this before?
My comments about the inconsistent league response to Rice is more Devil's advocate. I don't have a problem with the decision overall. I just wanted to point out, it is even inconsistent with what they came up with in response to the flack they got over the initial suspension.
I also agree with the pundits who said if anyone in the Ravens organization or league office is proven to have seen the video prior to the TMZ release, they should be suspended or fired as well.
Goodell took responsibility for under-suspending Rice.
Quote:
Goodell admitted in the letter that he "didn’t get it right" when he handed out a two-game suspension to Rice earlier this summer.
"I take responsibility both for the decision and for ensuring that our actions in the future properly reflect our values," Goodell said. "I didn’t get it right. Simply put, we have to do better. And we will."
it was a pure judgment call. Most of you are saying two games wasn't enough because of the video, what was?
4? 6? lifetime? it's a judgment call without an official policy.
They knew this tape existed. You think the NFL, with their track record, didn't make an effort to get this? You think the NFL, with their track record, doesn't have the power to get this?
I thought I read somewhere that the hotel says the NFL all the video. Â
and is telling me the word there is that NFL and Ravens had this vid for a month. Also that they basically propped up his wife to say she stood by him.
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
Rice may have bigger problems than being suspended by the NFL for a year. I wonder if the state will now prosecute Rice? Even if the wife refuses to press charges or testify, the video is pretty persuasive evidence.
Rice is going to be the poster child for domestic violence for better or worse. I think the guy has been pretty stand up since this all went down. The NFL and Raven's F'd up by treating this so lightly to begin with which has now negatively effected Ray Rice.
I'm not going to condone his behavior in this instance...but he is going to be pilloried for this event. The NFL is going to have to put together a coherent policy which address behavior and wrong doing that makes sense and that is fair.
and thoughful point of view on this issue. One incident is being used to judge a guy who has no history. I have daughters and I have always told them to never let any man abuse or hit them. I also told them if they are going to swing at a man to be prepared to get hit like a man. My mother has also taught them that. Moral is everyone should keep their hands to themselves.
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
A balanced, well reasoned and well thought out post on a board prone to extreme positions. Thanks Paul
i don't condone this behavior but 4 games then a life ban for domestic violence which I'm all for that punishment. What really gets me and has nothing really to do with ray rice but he should get a life ban is josh brent. He made a choice to drive intoxicated at high speeds which resulted in the death of another human being. He's being reinstated and will be able to play week 10. If anything there should be a zero tolerance for that type of behavior and should be an automatic life ban. The guys actions resulted in a man's death. Again I realize to totally different things
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
I don't know where the "Reacted" to her actions is coming from. Its not just Paul, but others have wrote this also. Ray Rice spit on the woman as she walked by him towards the elevator. She reacted to that with a half ass back slap. He then follows her into the elevator, corners her and spits on her again, she then reacted to that..
All of this is initiated by Ray Rice, who the fuck does not get pissed being spit on?
is in regards to the suspension. He was already given his punishment, light as it was, then the new rules dictate a 6 game suspension but now he's suspended indefinitely. I'm sure they'll raise a stink about that.
We knew what Rice did months ago. The video doesnt shed light on this anymore really. It is open to interpretation. Rice gets ringed because with the video we have the visceral reaction to an NFLer knocking out his fiance cold.
Same issue with Sterling. Everything you heard for years was that he was a racist scumbag. But suddenly there is an audio tape and he can no longer be tolerated?
It's sad, but the real lesson is that if you want to be a monster, dont leave a recording.
Second domestic violence act but not for any violent assault. So beating the crap out of someone not a woman or a child.
The NFL IS BEYOND inconsistent. That Rice should have gotten a severe penalty is obvious. What did people think happened in that elevator before seeing that video.
They are pathetic and it making me want to stop supporting the sport.
I understand your reasoning but how do you know this was an isolated incident? I read somewhere that Rice's actions toward his then-finacee are indicative of a consistent pattern of that type of behavior. It's very improbable that that was the first time he abused his fiance or women in general. That would suggest that there's little difference between Rice and a dickbag like Jerramy Stevens.
I understand your reasoning but how do you know this was an isolated incident? I read somewhere that Rice's actions toward his then-finacee are indicative of a consistent pattern of that type of behavior. It's very improbable that that was the first time he abused his fiance or women in general. That would suggest that there's little difference between Rice and a dickbag like Jerramy Stevens.
We don't know that it's not, but we also don't know of any incidents indicating this was not an isolated outburst.
I understand your reasoning but how do you know this was an isolated incident? I read somewhere that Rice's actions toward his then-finacee are indicative of a consistent pattern of that type of behavior. It's very improbable that that was the first time he abused his fiance or women in general. That would suggest that there's little difference between Rice and a dickbag like Jerramy Stevens.
Maybe it's not an isolated incident, but we have literally no evidence, accusation, hint, or anything to suggest that this is a pattern of behavior. To my knowledge he doesn't have any other blemish on his record and is in fact noted as somone who brings positive goodwill where he goes (rather than just not being actively bad).
If more information comes out about other actions he has committed, that would change things. But there is no evidence of that whatsoever.
And Jerramy Stevens is just on another level of being a scumbag.
If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
I take it you've not seen all of the details then. His was a long series of a variety of terrible premeditated sociopathic acts. Rice could be considered an isolated heat of the moment incident.
Not to compare evils, but are you really saying that victimizing a dog is worse than victimizing a human being - your own spouse no less?
Historically, he was always regarded as a high character guy.
I wish he would make a statement, admitting what a piece of shit he was, saying he is not pursuing any football to take a year to go to counseling or something.
He's not a victim here, but he was my favorite player (Rutgers grad, was there same time as him) so it does hurt. I always thought he was a great guy and an ambassador to Rutgers, and it sucks to be so wrong.
If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
I take it you've not seen all of the details then. His was a long series of a variety of terrible premeditated sociopathic acts. Rice could be considered an isolated heat of the moment incident.
Not to compare evils, but are you really saying that victimizing a dog is worse than victimizing a human being - your own spouse no less?
I think it was more a matter of consistently killing/hurting the dogs vs what appears to be an isolated incident. I'm not taking a side, just clarifying what I interpreted.
I'm not really contradicting myself with those comments. On one hand, I'm not convinced this is new evidence for the organization. However, if it is, I applaud them for changing their public stance.
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
Paul..I could not have said it better myself. I have tried to make some of these points but unfortunately there is a certain segment of people who will read what you wrote and say you are part of the problem and condemn you for making excuses. I understand your point and it is not about making excuses. Again very well stated.
iirc they had no official domestic violence policy. As part of this incident they created one, set a precedent with the rice suspension (that was wrong) saw the video, acknowledged their mistake and corrected it.
As a by-product the NFL create a domestic violence policy that is pioneering in professional sports, 6 games first offense, lifetime ban 2nd.
they reveal this to kick-off breast cancer/domestic violence awareness month in April.
what really happened is irrelevant, what's relevant is how it ended up
On the flip side, how does the release of the video change anything? The allegations were that he hit her in the elevator. The video we saw once the elevator doors opened, she was unconscious. So, what did you think happened? Why does the video change anything? Abuse is abuse and he admitted to domestic abuse.
Also, the league since amended its policy on domestic abuse and this indefinite suspension is now in excess of what their new policy defines. This is still an example of inconsistent policy by the league.
Your first two statements contradict each other. If this is new evidence you applaud the Ravens? For what? Caving to public pressure?
Based on your second statement, you basically state there's no difference because it's clear he knocked her out, so why wouldn't you be of the opinion that the Ravens should have done this before?
I also agree with the pundits who said if anyone in the Ravens organization or league office is proven to have seen the video prior to the TMZ release, they should be suspended or fired as well.
he got cut. What is there not to stand? Suspension?
I doubt anyone signs him this year even if the suspension is reduced.
by the new policy this would be a 6 game suspension.
Goodell took responsibility for under-suspending Rice.
"I take responsibility both for the decision and for ensuring that our actions in the future properly reflect our values," Goodell said. "I didn’t get it right. Simply put, we have to do better. And we will."
it was a pure judgment call. Most of you are saying two games wasn't enough because of the video, what was?
4? 6? lifetime? it's a judgment call without an official policy.
I don't know how the NFLPA can do anything...The team released him, they can do that to any player
"Is dis domestic violence cuz he hit huh ina elevatah and not in his house?"
"Da guy's got no recahd of anythin evah befaw dis!"
I believe the following things with certainty
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
I'm not going to condone his behavior in this instance...but he is going to be pilloried for this event. The NFL is going to have to put together a coherent policy which address behavior and wrong doing that makes sense and that is fair.
I believe the following things with certainty
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
A balanced, well reasoned and well thought out post on a board prone to extreme positions. Thanks Paul
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
I don't know where the "Reacted" to her actions is coming from. Its not just Paul, but others have wrote this also. Ray Rice spit on the woman as she walked by him towards the elevator. She reacted to that with a half ass back slap. He then follows her into the elevator, corners her and spits on her again, she then reacted to that..
All of this is initiated by Ray Rice, who the fuck does not get pissed being spit on?
He must not have listened to him, because if he had she'd have been stabbed instead.
Quote:
He was a mentor for Ray Rice..
He must not have listened to him, because if he had she'd have been stabbed instead.
Lmao that's pretty funny!
Same issue with Sterling. Everything you heard for years was that he was a racist scumbag. But suddenly there is an audio tape and he can no longer be tolerated?
It's sad, but the real lesson is that if you want to be a monster, dont leave a recording.
The NFL IS BEYOND inconsistent. That Rice should have gotten a severe penalty is obvious. What did people think happened in that elevator before seeing that video.
They are pathetic and it making me want to stop supporting the sport.
We don't know that it's not, but we also don't know of any incidents indicating this was not an isolated outburst.
Maybe it's not an isolated incident, but we have literally no evidence, accusation, hint, or anything to suggest that this is a pattern of behavior. To my knowledge he doesn't have any other blemish on his record and is in fact noted as somone who brings positive goodwill where he goes (rather than just not being actively bad).
If more information comes out about other actions he has committed, that would change things. But there is no evidence of that whatsoever.
And Jerramy Stevens is just on another level of being a scumbag.
Quote:
In comment 11847107 derpaderp said:
Quote:
If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
I take it you've not seen all of the details then. His was a long series of a variety of terrible premeditated sociopathic acts. Rice could be considered an isolated heat of the moment incident.
Not to compare evils, but are you really saying that victimizing a dog is worse than victimizing a human being - your own spouse no less?
I wish he would make a statement, admitting what a piece of shit he was, saying he is not pursuing any football to take a year to go to counseling or something.
He's not a victim here, but he was my favorite player (Rutgers grad, was there same time as him) so it does hurt. I always thought he was a great guy and an ambassador to Rutgers, and it sucks to be so wrong.
Quote:
In comment 11847139 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 11847107 derpaderp said:
Quote:
If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
I take it you've not seen all of the details then. His was a long series of a variety of terrible premeditated sociopathic acts. Rice could be considered an isolated heat of the moment incident.
Not to compare evils, but are you really saying that victimizing a dog is worse than victimizing a human being - your own spouse no less?
I think it was more a matter of consistently killing/hurting the dogs vs what appears to be an isolated incident. I'm not taking a side, just clarifying what I interpreted.
I pray for the Rice family and those close to them to have some form of healing now and in the future.
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I believe the following things with certainty
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
Paul..I could not have said it better myself. I have tried to make some of these points but unfortunately there is a certain segment of people who will read what you wrote and say you are part of the problem and condemn you for making excuses. I understand your point and it is not about making excuses. Again very well stated.