The only reason they did it was for PR. It would have been a good job if they released him when it first went down instead of saying he's a good guy who made a mistake. Instead of standing by him and all the players attending the press conference and the head coach saying that Rice is a good guy.
It's not a quality job at all. It would have been a quality job if they did it right the first time. This is more like damage control after fucking it up the first time.
hand. The NFL & Ravens almost assuredly had seen the footage prior to this. I don't know if they deserve credit for it, seemed almost perfunctory given the 'new' evidence.
The Napoleon complex that propelled him to such heights finally did him in.
At least he has a loving wife to fall back upon during these hard times.
It's not a quality job at all. It would have been a quality job if they did it right the first time. This is more like damage control after fucking it up the first time.
"Everybody makes mistakes" just like they said lol.
It's not a quality job at all. It would have been a quality job if they did it right the first time. This is more like damage control after fucking it up the first time.
Yeah I don't really see how they deserve credit. Even if they didn't see the video, they knew what happened, they just had the benefit of the public knowing, but not actually seeing. Now that we've seen it, which is jarring even if you knew what happened, people are making a stink about it (rightfully so). Taking action only after the public outcry starts to boil over isn't particularly admirable.
If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
that was posted in the other thread makes it sound extremely likely that the NFL and the Ravens had already seen this video months back. There's no way Peter King could describe that video so accurately without his sources inside the league telling him.
If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
emanating from the NFL over this issue is astounding. am i the only one who thought the video actually makes him come off a bit better, since it contextualizes the assault incident?
if rice were to have hit a shorter, thinner male relative, or male friend for that matter, and that person was knocked out due to then falling and hitting their head on an elevator railing, does he even get suspended? let alone cut?
of course rice exercised poor self-control and it is certainly worth suspending him for 4 games or some such, but both parties were arrested for simple assault, and neither ended up being charged with an actual crime. had he demonstrated a pattern of abusing women prior to this? not to my knowledge.
rothelisberger gets away with multiple rapes and the league barely bats an eye and rice gets into a fight with his girlfriend where he demonstrates a momentary lapse of self-control which results in her falling and banging her head, getting knocked out and he is public enemy no. 1? and forever?
i'm not one to decry political correctness but this smacks of benevolent sexism to me.
This is what I wrote on the other thread before the news came down
Quote:
Goodell is image conscious
Matt in SGS : 1:03 pm : link : reply
and Breast Cancer awareness month is in October, when the NFL has made it's pitch on behalf of women. Considering the media firestorm that is underway during the kickoff of the new season, and the way that Goodell saw how the NBA handled Sterling (and now what is going on in Atlanta), I would not at all be surprised if Goodell drops the hammer and suspends him indefinitely. I'd think that the league is currently looking into what legal recourse they have within the CBA to do so. Less than that, the easiest thing would be for the Ravens to release him and the NFL owners basically refuse to sign him. Lots of stuff going on behind the scenes right now in damage control.
It appears he has received at least $35 million plus in the last couple of years via a $40 million contract. which paid $17 him million in 2012, probably the same last yr. and some of it this yr.
If he has any brains,which I think he does, his next step should be immediate and concentrated intense therapy.
Very sad situation (for both him and his wife)- down here I guess he had us all fooled- he seemed like such a grounded solid citizen guy. Sociopaths are great at fooling us all (so says my wife an MSW/LCSW.
is how people still think that this is the first that the NFL, Ravens, and/or the police have seen this video. There were reports that the NFL had access to all of the evidence that the police had. There is no way that the police did not have this video immediately after the crime occured.
If I were the investigating officer on the crime scene, the first thing I would ask is if the elevator had a camera and if so, I would get a copy.
What that being said, how Ray Rice only got a 2 game suspension with or without this video, still boggles my mind. No one is disputing whether or not he hit her and knocked her unconscious.
In comment 11847165 MarylandPete said:
[quote] It appears he has received at least $35 million plus in the last couple of years via a $40 million contract. which paid $17 him million in 2012, probably the same last yr. and some of it this yr.
If he has any brains,which I think he does, his next step should be immediate and concentrated intense therapy.
Very sad situation (for both him and his wife)- down here I guess he had us all fooled- he seemed like such a grounded solid citizen guy. Sociopaths are great at fooling us all (so says my wife an MSW/LCSW. [/quote
Theres a psych behavioral term for it actually: "Apparent competency"
The guy would actually be a bad influence on Will Hill Â
For Rutgers also, they have been using his image and career as a recruiting tool for years, they have his name,jersey's, stats, etc; all over the stadium all that "SHIT" must go IMO
This is the first the NFL has seen of this video. The NFL has a lot of pull, and they're very thorough. It's an absolute joke that they expect the public to believe this line of BS.
The nfl is seeing untold profits under Goodell's stewardship Â
...football player at New Rochelle High School, and knowing and seeing all that he did over the years for his home community (not to mention what he did for other communities as well, collegiality and professionally)...
...this is just such a shocking development.
Really shocking.
ESPN Jamison Hensley (NFL Nation, Ravens beat reporter) report: Â
and should be suspended for a while. But why is everyone reacting like this is the first guy in the NFL to beat his woman? There have been many other cases where players have beaten their wife/gf and received a one or two game suspension. Not saying that it's the right punishment (should be much more severe), just wondering why everyone is reacting to Rice's case differently than a Brandon Marshall, Michael Boley, Rocky Bernard, etc. Is it shock reaction from seeing the video?
What other repercussions are going to come from this? Â
This is what I wrote on the other thread before the news came down
Quote:
Goodell is image conscious
Matt in SGS : 1:03 pm : link : reply
and Breast Cancer awareness month is in October, when the NFL has made it's pitch on behalf of women. Considering the media firestorm that is underway during the kickoff of the new season, and the way that Goodell saw how the NBA handled Sterling (and now what is going on in Atlanta), I would not at all be surprised if Goodell drops the hammer and suspends him indefinitely. I'd think that the league is currently looking into what legal recourse they have within the CBA to do so. Less than that, the easiest thing would be for the Ravens to release him and the NFL owners basically refuse to sign him. Lots of stuff going on behind the scenes right now in damage control.
Just for the record, October is also domestic violence awareness month. My wife worked at a women's shelter for battered women and I've sent numerous petitions to local and state governments, news stations, and large companies/entities (including the NFL). Nobody would even acknowledge receipt of petitions, letters, or requests for some sort of voice. While it's awful that this happened, in a way, I'm glad it was with a high profile player so the media finally decided it was worth talking about.
and should be suspended for a while. But why is everyone reacting like this is the first guy in the NFL to beat his woman? There have been many other cases where players have beaten their wife/gf and received a one or two game suspension. Not saying that it's the right punishment (should be much more severe), just wondering why everyone is reacting to Rice's case differently than a Brandon Marshall, Michael Boley, Rocky Bernard, etc. Is it shock reaction from seeing the video?
Because it's on video, shocking and people have had enough of this shit.
same time. Anyone who thinks they didn't see the video before must be brain dead. The owner of TMZ is basically saying that's a complete lie. Instead of doing the right thing from the get-go or having the guts to stand by their original punishment, they swoop in later with a complete CYA move. The only possible thing the league could say is that what Rice told them and the video showed is completely at odds. But that only works if you're foolish enough to think they didn't see this video. No one ends up looking good in this situation.
I watched the video and it doesn't really add anything to the story for me. He dragged an unconscious person off the elevator... it didn't take mental gymnastics to imagine how she got that way.
It is either one of two possibilities, they did see it or they did a half ass job of investigating. I kind of believe the former, especially after hearing Rachael Nickols point out they interviewed the victim with Ray Rice there.iIt was like they wanted to clear him.
It is so strange that abuse women stay with men who abuse them. Some of it is that the women wrongly believe they don't deserve better, or they believe they could change them. On the outside, it is easy to say how stupid it is to stay.
let's assume that the NFL had access to this video Â
If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
I take it you've not seen all of the details then. His was a long series of a variety of terrible premeditated sociopathic acts. Rice could be considered an isolated heat of the moment incident.
First of all, I question whether or not this video is truly new to both the Ravens and the league office. Second of all, if it is, I applaud the Ravens.
On the flip side, how does the release of the video change anything? The allegations were that he hit her in the elevator. The video we saw once the elevator doors opened, she was unconscious. So, what did you think happened? Why does the video change anything? Abuse is abuse and he admitted to domestic abuse.
Also, the league since amended its policy on domestic abuse and this indefinite suspension is now in excess of what their new policy defines. This is still an example of inconsistent policy by the league.
call me braindead because I don't think the NFL saw the video prior to making their inital ruling. Maybe I am being naive, but I can't imagine someone sees that video and says "Well 2 games will suffice!" and then move on. I also don't believe the NFL would be silly enough not to think this video might get leaked at some point.
iirc they had no official domestic violence policy. As part of this incident they created one, set a precedent with the rice suspension (that was wrong) saw the video, acknowledged their mistake and corrected it.
As a by-product the NFL create a domestic violence policy that is pioneering in professional sports, 6 games first offense, lifetime ban 2nd.
they reveal this to kick-off breast cancer/domestic violence awareness month in April.
what really happened is irrelevant, what's relevant is how it ended up
of the burden for mishandling many things, but its a league now where gay players are welcomed and wife-beaters are not. We are moving in the right direction.
First of all, I question whether or not this video is truly new to both the Ravens and the league office. Second of all, if it is, I applaud the Ravens.
On the flip side, how does the release of the video change anything? The allegations were that he hit her in the elevator. The video we saw once the elevator doors opened, she was unconscious. So, what did you think happened? Why does the video change anything? Abuse is abuse and he admitted to domestic abuse.
Also, the league since amended its policy on domestic abuse and this indefinite suspension is now in excess of what their new policy defines. This is still an example of inconsistent policy by the league.
Your first two statements contradict each other. If this is new evidence you applaud the Ravens? For what? Caving to public pressure?
Based on your second statement, you basically state there's no difference because it's clear he knocked her out, so why wouldn't you be of the opinion that the Ravens should have done this before?
My comments about the inconsistent league response to Rice is more Devil's advocate. I don't have a problem with the decision overall. I just wanted to point out, it is even inconsistent with what they came up with in response to the flack they got over the initial suspension.
I also agree with the pundits who said if anyone in the Ravens organization or league office is proven to have seen the video prior to the TMZ release, they should be suspended or fired as well.
Goodell took responsibility for under-suspending Rice.
Quote:
Goodell admitted in the letter that he "didn’t get it right" when he handed out a two-game suspension to Rice earlier this summer.
"I take responsibility both for the decision and for ensuring that our actions in the future properly reflect our values," Goodell said. "I didn’t get it right. Simply put, we have to do better. And we will."
it was a pure judgment call. Most of you are saying two games wasn't enough because of the video, what was?
4? 6? lifetime? it's a judgment call without an official policy.
They knew this tape existed. You think the NFL, with their track record, didn't make an effort to get this? You think the NFL, with their track record, doesn't have the power to get this?
I thought I read somewhere that the hotel says the NFL all the video. Â
and is telling me the word there is that NFL and Ravens had this vid for a month. Also that they basically propped up his wife to say she stood by him.
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
Rice may have bigger problems than being suspended by the NFL for a year. I wonder if the state will now prosecute Rice? Even if the wife refuses to press charges or testify, the video is pretty persuasive evidence.
Rice is going to be the poster child for domestic violence for better or worse. I think the guy has been pretty stand up since this all went down. The NFL and Raven's F'd up by treating this so lightly to begin with which has now negatively effected Ray Rice.
I'm not going to condone his behavior in this instance...but he is going to be pilloried for this event. The NFL is going to have to put together a coherent policy which address behavior and wrong doing that makes sense and that is fair.
and thoughful point of view on this issue. One incident is being used to judge a guy who has no history. I have daughters and I have always told them to never let any man abuse or hit them. I also told them if they are going to swing at a man to be prepared to get hit like a man. My mother has also taught them that. Moral is everyone should keep their hands to themselves.
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
A balanced, well reasoned and well thought out post on a board prone to extreme positions. Thanks Paul
i don't condone this behavior but 4 games then a life ban for domestic violence which I'm all for that punishment. What really gets me and has nothing really to do with ray rice but he should get a life ban is josh brent. He made a choice to drive intoxicated at high speeds which resulted in the death of another human being. He's being reinstated and will be able to play week 10. If anything there should be a zero tolerance for that type of behavior and should be an automatic life ban. The guys actions resulted in a man's death. Again I realize to totally different things
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
I don't know where the "Reacted" to her actions is coming from. Its not just Paul, but others have wrote this also. Ray Rice spit on the woman as she walked by him towards the elevator. She reacted to that with a half ass back slap. He then follows her into the elevator, corners her and spits on her again, she then reacted to that..
All of this is initiated by Ray Rice, who the fuck does not get pissed being spit on?
is in regards to the suspension. He was already given his punishment, light as it was, then the new rules dictate a 6 game suspension but now he's suspended indefinitely. I'm sure they'll raise a stink about that.
We knew what Rice did months ago. The video doesnt shed light on this anymore really. It is open to interpretation. Rice gets ringed because with the video we have the visceral reaction to an NFLer knocking out his fiance cold.
Same issue with Sterling. Everything you heard for years was that he was a racist scumbag. But suddenly there is an audio tape and he can no longer be tolerated?
It's sad, but the real lesson is that if you want to be a monster, dont leave a recording.
Second domestic violence act but not for any violent assault. So beating the crap out of someone not a woman or a child.
The NFL IS BEYOND inconsistent. That Rice should have gotten a severe penalty is obvious. What did people think happened in that elevator before seeing that video.
They are pathetic and it making me want to stop supporting the sport.
I understand your reasoning but how do you know this was an isolated incident? I read somewhere that Rice's actions toward his then-finacee are indicative of a consistent pattern of that type of behavior. It's very improbable that that was the first time he abused his fiance or women in general. That would suggest that there's little difference between Rice and a dickbag like Jerramy Stevens.
I understand your reasoning but how do you know this was an isolated incident? I read somewhere that Rice's actions toward his then-finacee are indicative of a consistent pattern of that type of behavior. It's very improbable that that was the first time he abused his fiance or women in general. That would suggest that there's little difference between Rice and a dickbag like Jerramy Stevens.
We don't know that it's not, but we also don't know of any incidents indicating this was not an isolated outburst.
I understand your reasoning but how do you know this was an isolated incident? I read somewhere that Rice's actions toward his then-finacee are indicative of a consistent pattern of that type of behavior. It's very improbable that that was the first time he abused his fiance or women in general. That would suggest that there's little difference between Rice and a dickbag like Jerramy Stevens.
Maybe it's not an isolated incident, but we have literally no evidence, accusation, hint, or anything to suggest that this is a pattern of behavior. To my knowledge he doesn't have any other blemish on his record and is in fact noted as somone who brings positive goodwill where he goes (rather than just not being actively bad).
If more information comes out about other actions he has committed, that would change things. But there is no evidence of that whatsoever.
And Jerramy Stevens is just on another level of being a scumbag.
If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
I take it you've not seen all of the details then. His was a long series of a variety of terrible premeditated sociopathic acts. Rice could be considered an isolated heat of the moment incident.
Not to compare evils, but are you really saying that victimizing a dog is worse than victimizing a human being - your own spouse no less?
Historically, he was always regarded as a high character guy.
I wish he would make a statement, admitting what a piece of shit he was, saying he is not pursuing any football to take a year to go to counseling or something.
He's not a victim here, but he was my favorite player (Rutgers grad, was there same time as him) so it does hurt. I always thought he was a great guy and an ambassador to Rutgers, and it sucks to be so wrong.
If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
I take it you've not seen all of the details then. His was a long series of a variety of terrible premeditated sociopathic acts. Rice could be considered an isolated heat of the moment incident.
Not to compare evils, but are you really saying that victimizing a dog is worse than victimizing a human being - your own spouse no less?
I think it was more a matter of consistently killing/hurting the dogs vs what appears to be an isolated incident. I'm not taking a side, just clarifying what I interpreted.
I'm not really contradicting myself with those comments. On one hand, I'm not convinced this is new evidence for the organization. However, if it is, I applaud them for changing their public stance.
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
Paul..I could not have said it better myself. I have tried to make some of these points but unfortunately there is a certain segment of people who will read what you wrote and say you are part of the problem and condemn you for making excuses. I understand your point and it is not about making excuses. Again very well stated.
if it comes out that they did, but only chose to release once the public got hold of the video, that is truly dumb
and now he's released.
Quality job by the NFL.
Because Jerry Jones, is an attention whore
Quote:
?
Because Jerry Jones, is an attention whore
And then wouldn't it be hilarious if Michael Sam beat his ass in return?
The Napoleon complex that propelled him to such heights finally did him in.
At least he has a loving wife to fall back upon during these hard times.
Baltimore needs to stop drafting punks named Ray
"Everybody makes mistakes" just like they said lol.
This would've been a much harder decision if Rice hadn't kinda sucked last year.
Yeah I don't really see how they deserve credit. Even if they didn't see the video, they knew what happened, they just had the benefit of the public knowing, but not actually seeing. Now that we've seen it, which is jarring even if you knew what happened, people are making a stink about it (rightfully so). Taking action only after the public outcry starts to boil over isn't particularly admirable.
This would've been a much harder decision if Rice hadn't kinda sucked last year.
However, I am not in the camp that believes he doesn't deserve a second chance. I wonder if his wife is pleased with the decision, my guess is no.
Baltimore needs to stop drafting punks named Ray
LOL, I don't know why but for some reason you post made me think off the movie "The Jerk".
"He hates these cans"
He hates these cans - ( New Window )
Bernard Pierce should still be the starter. I know he had a bad game.
Be on a roster by the playoffs.
he does, but it's a short one.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
if rice were to have hit a shorter, thinner male relative, or male friend for that matter, and that person was knocked out due to then falling and hitting their head on an elevator railing, does he even get suspended? let alone cut?
of course rice exercised poor self-control and it is certainly worth suspending him for 4 games or some such, but both parties were arrested for simple assault, and neither ended up being charged with an actual crime. had he demonstrated a pattern of abusing women prior to this? not to my knowledge.
rothelisberger gets away with multiple rapes and the league barely bats an eye and rice gets into a fight with his girlfriend where he demonstrates a momentary lapse of self-control which results in her falling and banging her head, getting knocked out and he is public enemy no. 1? and forever?
i'm not one to decry political correctness but this smacks of benevolent sexism to me.
CLOWN. Clown college in session with this guy constantly.
This is what I wrote on the other thread before the news came down
Matt in SGS : 1:03 pm : link : reply
and Breast Cancer awareness month is in October, when the NFL has made it's pitch on behalf of women. Considering the media firestorm that is underway during the kickoff of the new season, and the way that Goodell saw how the NBA handled Sterling (and now what is going on in Atlanta), I would not at all be surprised if Goodell drops the hammer and suspends him indefinitely. I'd think that the league is currently looking into what legal recourse they have within the CBA to do so. Less than that, the easiest thing would be for the Ravens to release him and the NFL owners basically refuse to sign him. Lots of stuff going on behind the scenes right now in damage control.
You may very well be.
If he has any brains,which I think he does, his next step should be immediate and concentrated intense therapy.
Very sad situation (for both him and his wife)- down here I guess he had us all fooled- he seemed like such a grounded solid citizen guy. Sociopaths are great at fooling us all (so says my wife an MSW/LCSW.
Goodell should grow a mustache and wear a French uniform. If he's going to act like Inspector Renault, he may as well look like him too.
I'm shocked, shocked to find that Ray Rice decked his wife!"
If I were the investigating officer on the crime scene, the first thing I would ask is if the elevator had a camera and if so, I would get a copy.
What that being said, how Ray Rice only got a 2 game suspension with or without this video, still boggles my mind. No one is disputing whether or not he hit her and knocked her unconscious.
Clowns...like in Washington.
[quote] It appears he has received at least $35 million plus in the last couple of years via a $40 million contract. which paid $17 him million in 2012, probably the same last yr. and some of it this yr.
If he has any brains,which I think he does, his next step should be immediate and concentrated intense therapy.
Very sad situation (for both him and his wife)- down here I guess he had us all fooled- he seemed like such a grounded solid citizen guy. Sociopaths are great at fooling us all (so says my wife an MSW/LCSW. [/quote
Theres a psych behavioral term for it actually: "Apparent competency"
If it ends up proven in some way that he had seen the video prior to this release he will have to step down.
WTF? He'll get a bonus because of this!
It is but not that surprising - this is the sport where violence is glorified and celebrated. Some dont know where to draw the line.
The owners won't want him to go anywere.
NO WAY!!!
I'd be more disappointed that the victim of the crime DIDN'T press charges and also MARRIED her attacker. Focus your disappointment on that first.
...this is just such a shocking development.
Really shocking.
Pathetic.
This is what I wrote on the other thread before the news came down
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Goodell is image conscious
Matt in SGS : 1:03 pm : link : reply
and Breast Cancer awareness month is in October, when the NFL has made it's pitch on behalf of women. Considering the media firestorm that is underway during the kickoff of the new season, and the way that Goodell saw how the NBA handled Sterling (and now what is going on in Atlanta), I would not at all be surprised if Goodell drops the hammer and suspends him indefinitely. I'd think that the league is currently looking into what legal recourse they have within the CBA to do so. Less than that, the easiest thing would be for the Ravens to release him and the NFL owners basically refuse to sign him. Lots of stuff going on behind the scenes right now in damage control.
Just for the record, October is also domestic violence awareness month. My wife worked at a women's shelter for battered women and I've sent numerous petitions to local and state governments, news stations, and large companies/entities (including the NFL). Nobody would even acknowledge receipt of petitions, letters, or requests for some sort of voice. While it's awful that this happened, in a way, I'm glad it was with a high profile player so the media finally decided it was worth talking about.
Because it's on video, shocking and people have had enough of this shit.
I watched the video and it doesn't really add anything to the story for me. He dragged an unconscious person off the elevator... it didn't take mental gymnastics to imagine how she got that way.
Excellent call.
Goddell = Image consious.
Mrs Rice = Unconcious.
Cynicism
I would not be surprised if the NFL orchestrated this by making the video available to TMZ. It effectively gives them a "mulligan".
The Ravens heard the NFL was going to suspend Rice and took "heroic" action ahead of the NFL announcement.
The fact that it came out now and the public is going crazy has forced his release and suspension. That's pretty damning for the league and Goodell.
He's got some dancing to do.
Question now is, what does he do to his wife now?
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If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
I take it you've not seen all of the details then. His was a long series of a variety of terrible premeditated sociopathic acts. Rice could be considered an isolated heat of the moment incident.
On the flip side, how does the release of the video change anything? The allegations were that he hit her in the elevator. The video we saw once the elevator doors opened, she was unconscious. So, what did you think happened? Why does the video change anything? Abuse is abuse and he admitted to domestic abuse.
Also, the league since amended its policy on domestic abuse and this indefinite suspension is now in excess of what their new policy defines. This is still an example of inconsistent policy by the league.
Ray Rice would probably name them "Left Fisty" and "Right Fisty."
iirc they had no official domestic violence policy. As part of this incident they created one, set a precedent with the rice suspension (that was wrong) saw the video, acknowledged their mistake and corrected it.
As a by-product the NFL create a domestic violence policy that is pioneering in professional sports, 6 games first offense, lifetime ban 2nd.
they reveal this to kick-off breast cancer/domestic violence awareness month in April.
what really happened is irrelevant, what's relevant is how it ended up
On the flip side, how does the release of the video change anything? The allegations were that he hit her in the elevator. The video we saw once the elevator doors opened, she was unconscious. So, what did you think happened? Why does the video change anything? Abuse is abuse and he admitted to domestic abuse.
Also, the league since amended its policy on domestic abuse and this indefinite suspension is now in excess of what their new policy defines. This is still an example of inconsistent policy by the league.
Your first two statements contradict each other. If this is new evidence you applaud the Ravens? For what? Caving to public pressure?
Based on your second statement, you basically state there's no difference because it's clear he knocked her out, so why wouldn't you be of the opinion that the Ravens should have done this before?
I also agree with the pundits who said if anyone in the Ravens organization or league office is proven to have seen the video prior to the TMZ release, they should be suspended or fired as well.
he got cut. What is there not to stand? Suspension?
I doubt anyone signs him this year even if the suspension is reduced.
by the new policy this would be a 6 game suspension.
Goodell took responsibility for under-suspending Rice.
"I take responsibility both for the decision and for ensuring that our actions in the future properly reflect our values," Goodell said. "I didn’t get it right. Simply put, we have to do better. And we will."
it was a pure judgment call. Most of you are saying two games wasn't enough because of the video, what was?
4? 6? lifetime? it's a judgment call without an official policy.
I don't know how the NFLPA can do anything...The team released him, they can do that to any player
"Is dis domestic violence cuz he hit huh ina elevatah and not in his house?"
"Da guy's got no recahd of anythin evah befaw dis!"
I believe the following things with certainty
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
I'm not going to condone his behavior in this instance...but he is going to be pilloried for this event. The NFL is going to have to put together a coherent policy which address behavior and wrong doing that makes sense and that is fair.
I believe the following things with certainty
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
A balanced, well reasoned and well thought out post on a board prone to extreme positions. Thanks Paul
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
I don't know where the "Reacted" to her actions is coming from. Its not just Paul, but others have wrote this also. Ray Rice spit on the woman as she walked by him towards the elevator. She reacted to that with a half ass back slap. He then follows her into the elevator, corners her and spits on her again, she then reacted to that..
All of this is initiated by Ray Rice, who the fuck does not get pissed being spit on?
He must not have listened to him, because if he had she'd have been stabbed instead.
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He was a mentor for Ray Rice..
He must not have listened to him, because if he had she'd have been stabbed instead.
Lmao that's pretty funny!
Same issue with Sterling. Everything you heard for years was that he was a racist scumbag. But suddenly there is an audio tape and he can no longer be tolerated?
It's sad, but the real lesson is that if you want to be a monster, dont leave a recording.
The NFL IS BEYOND inconsistent. That Rice should have gotten a severe penalty is obvious. What did people think happened in that elevator before seeing that video.
They are pathetic and it making me want to stop supporting the sport.
We don't know that it's not, but we also don't know of any incidents indicating this was not an isolated outburst.
Maybe it's not an isolated incident, but we have literally no evidence, accusation, hint, or anything to suggest that this is a pattern of behavior. To my knowledge he doesn't have any other blemish on his record and is in fact noted as somone who brings positive goodwill where he goes (rather than just not being actively bad).
If more information comes out about other actions he has committed, that would change things. But there is no evidence of that whatsoever.
And Jerramy Stevens is just on another level of being a scumbag.
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In comment 11847107 derpaderp said:
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If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
I take it you've not seen all of the details then. His was a long series of a variety of terrible premeditated sociopathic acts. Rice could be considered an isolated heat of the moment incident.
Not to compare evils, but are you really saying that victimizing a dog is worse than victimizing a human being - your own spouse no less?
I wish he would make a statement, admitting what a piece of shit he was, saying he is not pursuing any football to take a year to go to counseling or something.
He's not a victim here, but he was my favorite player (Rutgers grad, was there same time as him) so it does hurt. I always thought he was a great guy and an ambassador to Rutgers, and it sucks to be so wrong.
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In comment 11847139 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 11847107 derpaderp said:
Quote:
If Vick can have "redemption" somehow, rice surely will after this. What Vick did was immensely more egregious than this one act by rice disgusting as it is.
I hate to compare evils because they are all horrible, but I don't know that I could agree with Vicks actions being "immensely more egregious"
I take it you've not seen all of the details then. His was a long series of a variety of terrible premeditated sociopathic acts. Rice could be considered an isolated heat of the moment incident.
Not to compare evils, but are you really saying that victimizing a dog is worse than victimizing a human being - your own spouse no less?
I think it was more a matter of consistently killing/hurting the dogs vs what appears to be an isolated incident. I'm not taking a side, just clarifying what I interpreted.
I pray for the Rice family and those close to them to have some form of healing now and in the future.
Link - ( New Window )
I believe the following things with certainty
1. What Ray Rice did was disgusting
2. He swung at her in response to her coming at him swinging her arms.
3. Though his act was of a reactionary nature, it was completely uncalled for. It was extreme, shocking, unnecessary, and not even close to a reasonable response.
4. He not only poses a size and strength advantage, but his professional epxerience has made him accustomed to physical contact and so I can't imagine that he felt physically threatened or injured such that his only response was to throw a punch at her face.
5. He deserved a suspension from the NFL, and it should have been more than 2 games when first announced.
6. His then-gf should be independently scolded for attacking Ray. Just because his response to her was despicable, it doesn't remove the wrongdoing of her initial actions to hit Ray.
I hope I made it clear that Rice's actions were inexcusable and he deserves condemnation and punishment. Though unfortunate for him that he will be the posterboy for it, I do hope that this will shine a much brighter light on domestic violence that is endemic to our society and not nearly examined closely enough.
However, I wonder when punishment is considered enough. I wonder if we are about to take it too far with Rice. Last week, NFL overhauled DV policy to 6 games for a first time offender and life thereafter. This is Rice's first offense and he's been suspended indefinitely. He was just released by Balitmore, and there are whispers, and suggestions from fans and the public that he should never play again.
And while I'm mad at and sickened by Rice's action, I wonder how much a momentary violent overreaction should be used to define a person's entire life and character. By all accounts, Ray Rice was considered a great person, and a great ambassador and representative of the NFL. He was beloved and admired in high school, at Rutgers, and in Baltimore. He became a part of every community he joined and seemed to do a lot of work to better them using the advantages and resources he had.
Outside of this event, if one were to recall Ray Rice, it would be in a positive light, noting him as one of the "good" guys.
So how much of that do we have to throw away because of what he did in the elvator to his gf this past off-season? Again, it's a despicable, monstrous thing that he did. But as I stated earlier, it was one out of reaction. It doesn't excuse in any fashion what he did, but I tend to view this evil less than if it were something that he intended to do, or something that required a lot of steps along the way showing a commitment to the evil.
I also view this differently from bad things people do when those people have a history of pattern of such evil. There indicates a sickness or depravity when that is the case (e.g. Jerramy Stevens).
But Ray Rice didn't have a pattern of abuse. He doesn't have a history of violence. This wasn't a planned attack; nor was this illicit behavior that happened over a long period time. It was a heat of the moment reaction that violated a cardianl rule in our society
So while he is rightfully punished, and it does change my opionion of him, I have a hard time joining the growing voice that he should never be allowed to play again. I have a hard time treating him like the face of immorality in the NFL when I look around the league and see plenty of people I consider worse than him, who are repeat offenders, and who have shown a pattern of behavior that they don't care about right and wrong.
Paul..I could not have said it better myself. I have tried to make some of these points but unfortunately there is a certain segment of people who will read what you wrote and say you are part of the problem and condemn you for making excuses. I understand your point and it is not about making excuses. Again very well stated.