awful for him (and I rarely feel that way for players).
The hand he's been dealt is just beyond brutally unfair and pretty much unwinnable. He's never going to pack it up and play it safe to protect himself, so it's going to look even uglier, than it would with most other QBs too, which is going to bring the criticism on him even harder.
They're going to take the fall, possibly huge hits to their legacies, and JR is going to ride on free and clear, at least as far as the team goes. Maybe his boy Marc Ross gets fired and that's a big maybe.
This has nothing to do with my Giants prediction, which stand at I think they'll improve as the season moves on, which is an opinion I've been 100% consistent with.
This mess falls squarely on Reese's shoulders. He doesn't value the offensive line enough and he paid Eli far more than he is worth forcing us to lose too many good players at the end of each season.
Eli didn't communicate the audible crisply and threw it to donnell who wasn't even turned to the ball. That was a great play by levy but that was on Eli's lack of communication again.
How can you watch this team and not see Eli is behind a line that is a slap in the face to what he has done for this franchise. THAT is what made him into the QB he is today. Nothing else.
for throwing it to receivers who arent looking and behind guys who are open allowing the defense to get there. got it.
i will aleays love eli, but its obvious hes lost the edge.
I don't blame Eli. I blame Reese for this abomination of an offensive line.
Again, Reese changed all the players. And the same results. At some point you have to start looking at the HC and OL coach. Thats the only thing that hasn't changed
I don't blame Eli. I blame Reese for this abomination of an offensive line.
Again, Reese changed all the players. And the same results. At some point you have to start looking at the HC and OL coach. Thats the only thing that hasn't changed
If you change bad players and bring in bad players, things will still be bad.
Guys like Jerry and Walton suck. Depth guys like Charles Brown were putrid elsewhere.
The Giants bringing them in wasn't magically going to make them good.
Eli has a lot of the same flaws that he's had his entire time here
He's immobile and he has a tendency to make some mind numbingly stupid decisions at the worst possible time.
At the same time, he's paid handsomely - occupying $20m in cap space this year alone. I wouldn't ever hold it against these guys for trying to make top dollar, but given some of his limitations (in particular his immobility), I find it hard to feel sympathy for him at the same time. An extension that took him out of the upper tier of QBs could've resulted in sorely needed cap space to help build the O around him.
I don't blame Eli. I blame Reese for this abomination of an offensive line.
Again, Reese changed all the players. And the same results. At some point you have to start looking at the HC and OL coach. Thats the only thing that hasn't changed
Just because he changed players doesn't mean they're all the right players or even better than what we had before. C and RG look like they're still problems to me.
Is All on Reese he has F'd this team for years with his shitty pathetic drafts he should be fired at the conclusion of this shit show and not allowed on the team plane! Jerry sucks!
not as bad as you thought he was back in his first year in Chicago. Look how much better he is performing with Marshall, Jeffries, Forte, and a good offensive coach in Trestman. The QB's performance is often symptomatic of the offense around him.
It takes a really putrid cumulative effort over time by the front office AND coaching staff to have a consistent showing like this over a long period of time, with Eli Manning as your QB.
Be careful saying anything negative about BBI's boy toy. There are several folks here who are going to bed tonight with their Eli Manning Real Doll who are gonna be offended.
I had posted this before - Reese has not neglected the OL. Look at the draft picks and the OL picked after - there really is not much right after they picked
2008:
K. Phillips(32) C. Rachal(39) M. Pollack(59)
T. Thomas(63) J. Greco(66) J. Zuttah(83)
Manningham(95) C. Reinhardt(96) C. Wallace(107) K
Leichtensteiger(108) Mike MGlynn(109) S. Murphy(110) A.
Collins(112)
2009:
Nicks(29) E. Britton(39)
Sintim(45) M. Unger(49) A. Levitre(51) P. Loadholdt(54)
Vollmer(58)
Beatty (60) R. Brewster(75) A. Caldwell(77) Vasquez(78) K.
Urbik(79)
Barden(85) J. Luigs(106) T. Lang(109) R. Ornberger(123)
The last 3 lineman after A. Brown combined for 33 total starts
2010: Forget after JPP
L. Joseph(46) V. Ducasse(61) C. Brown(64) J. Asomoah(68) J.
Valdeheer(69) J. Jerry(73)
C. Jones(76) JD Walton(80) S. Luavo(92) M. Johnson(98) B.
Campbell(106)
P. Dillard(115) J. Hawley(117) J. Fox(128)
2011:
P. Amukamarta(19) A.Costanzo(22) D. Watkins(23) J.
Carpenter(28) G. Carimi(29) D. Sherrod(32) O.
Franklin(46) S. Wisnewski(48) B. Ijalana(49)
M. Austin(52) R. Hudson(55) M. Gilbert(63) J. Moffitt(75)
W. Rackley(76)
J. Jernigan(83) J. Reid(85) J. Barksdale(92) C. Boling(101)
D. Arkin(110)
The 3 OL taken after Brewer have performed the same as Brewer
2012:
After WIlson, you could argue about Schwartz, but Glenn was not viewed as an NFL LT. The other guys picked within 10 of Wilson are guards. Konz and M. Adams are bad.
The guys picked after Randle - LeRibeus, Stephenson, Brooks Holmes have not played much.
Look at the guys picked after Holsey - there is not much
I do not see a lot of neglect based upon draft picks and position, specifically LT and even RT. Majority of these guys are G. They were never going to draft Unger with Ohara here.
You can clearly debate some things about Reese and the draft, but the OL 'neglect' issue is really not part of that
Be careful saying anything negative about BBI's boy toy. There are several folks here who are going to bed tonight with their Eli Manning Real Doll who are gonna be offended.
You sir are one of the biggest douchebags on this site so why don't you please go root for the Eagles...and take dim-bulb Les too..
Is not the problem! People that say otherwise do not know football!
You clearly are ignoring the stupid decisions he makes each and every week then. For a couple years now.
He's contributing to the problem, but he's not the root cause of it, for sure.
I honestly wonder if Nassib wouldn't be better at this point - only because our line is such shit, we still need someone mobile that can run around and take pressure off of our garbage offensive line.
With everyone agreed at the end of last that the O-Line and protection of Eli was the only priority, they used their first round pick on a receiver and the biggest chunk of their cap space, which was a lot this offseason, to sign a corner.
They should have bitten the bullet, admitted that Beatty was an expensive mistake, and moved on to a new tackle. Beatty was just awful again tonight.
What made the Giants think that they had an improved running game this year? They have two slow, north-south running backs who can't catch.
But to be on the positive side, it shouldn't be that hard to improve the offense. The Giants can just go through the latest "out-of-football" book and find better talent.
he'd have had the chance to cut a 13 pt lead to 6 late in the 4th in the game. You're right. Eli will keep fighting, but it's a shame that after two Super Bowls, people would rather blame him than be educated about the fact that his line sucks, one WR that threatens anyone, and the TEs are questionable at best.
I had posted this before - Reese has not neglected the OL. Look at the draft picks and the OL picked after - there really is not much right after they picked
2008:
K. Phillips(32) C. Rachal(39) M. Pollack(59)
T. Thomas(63) J. Greco(66) J. Zuttah(83)
Manningham(95) C. Reinhardt(96) C. Wallace(107) K
Leichtensteiger(108) Mike MGlynn(109) S. Murphy(110) A.
Collins(112)
2009:
Nicks(29) E. Britton(39)
Sintim(45) M. Unger(49) A. Levitre(51) P. Loadholdt(54)
Vollmer(58)
Beatty (60) R. Brewster(75) A. Caldwell(77) Vasquez(78) K.
Urbik(79)
Barden(85) J. Luigs(106) T. Lang(109) R. Ornberger(123)
The last 3 lineman after A. Brown combined for 33 total starts
2010: Forget after JPP
L. Joseph(46) V. Ducasse(61) C. Brown(64) J. Asomoah(68) J.
Valdeheer(69) J. Jerry(73)
C. Jones(76) JD Walton(80) S. Luavo(92) M. Johnson(98) B.
Campbell(106)
P. Dillard(115) J. Hawley(117) J. Fox(128)
2011:
P. Amukamarta(19) A.Costanzo(22) D. Watkins(23) J.
Carpenter(28) G. Carimi(29) D. Sherrod(32) O.
Franklin(46) S. Wisnewski(48) B. Ijalana(49)
M. Austin(52) R. Hudson(55) M. Gilbert(63) J. Moffitt(75)
W. Rackley(76)
J. Jernigan(83) J. Reid(85) J. Barksdale(92) C. Boling(101)
D. Arkin(110)
The 3 OL taken after Brewer have performed the same as Brewer
2012:
After WIlson, you could argue about Schwartz, but Glenn was not viewed as an NFL LT. The other guys picked within 10 of Wilson are guards. Konz and M. Adams are bad.
The guys picked after Randle - LeRibeus, Stephenson, Brooks Holmes have not played much.
Look at the guys picked after Holsey - there is not much
I do not see a lot of neglect based upon draft picks and position, specifically LT and even RT. Majority of these guys are G. They were never going to draft Unger with Ohara here.
You can clearly debate some things about Reese and the draft, but the OL 'neglect' issue is really not part of that
Don't agree. Cordy Glenn was definitely viewed as a LT, and in any event would have been a much better pick than Wilson. Drafting Glenn also would have removed the leverage Beatty had over us as a FA. They also took Sintim over Unger. You take the best player on the board, which never should have been Sintim, who didn't even fit our scheme. Jury is out on whether Pugh is better than Kyle Long, but Long had a very good rookie year IIRC. Brewer also looks bad. Reese said he had "left tackle feet." No, he has two left feet. And how about Petrus? McCants might be his best mid round pick, but he's now with the Raiders. Brown is bad. Walton doesn't look much better, and Schwartz had his problems during the preseason. I would say Reese has done a bad job with the OL, in the draft and FA.
Eli will never give up even though those around him lack experience/knowledge/ability. If you think Eli is the cause of our problems you really don't know much about football.
Audible wasn't crisp enough, lol, haven't heard that one before...
Eli will never give up even though those around him lack experience/knowledge/ability. If you think Eli is the cause of our problems you really don't know much about football.
Audible wasn't crisp enough, lol, haven't heard that one before...
the same as Eli. There are other QB's that have leaped past Eli. Sorry that the team doesn't have better WR and OL and all the other stuff so Eli can then succeed. Look he is or was a top 5 QB in the eyes of Giant fans so make things happen and play smart. Its not like other top QB's have 5 all pro Ol guys and 2 All Pro Wr. A great QB makes the other players better and makes things happen and generally limit bone head plays.
I had posted this before - Reese has not neglected the OL. Look at the draft picks and the OL picked after - there really is not ......
Thank for at least looking at the premise and analyzing it quantitatively. It is amazing the whole "Repeat a lie enough and it becomes the truth" concerning the draft.
the same as Eli. There are other QB's that have leaped past Eli. Sorry that the team doesn't have better WR and OL and all the other stuff so Eli can then succeed. Look he is or was a top 5 QB in the eyes of Giant fans so make things happen and play smart. Its not like other top QB's have 5 all pro Ol guys and 2 All Pro Wr. A great QB makes the other players better and makes things happen and generally limit bone head plays.
Got it..so then what happened to Brady and Rodgers this week..?
the same as Eli. There are other QB's that have leaped past Eli. Sorry that the team doesn't have better WR and OL and all the other stuff so Eli can then succeed. Look he is or was a top 5 QB in the eyes of Giant fans so make things happen and play smart. Its not like other top QB's have 5 all pro Ol guys and 2 All Pro Wr. A great QB makes the other players better and makes things happen and generally limit bone head plays.
he doesn't need better WRs and OLmen... he just needs decent... other than Cruz and Jennings, does that define any of the Giants' starting offense tonight?
Did Randle make the trip? I didn't see him tonight.
The offense has no more than 6 or 7 real NFL players. Eli isn't helped by his teammates, but that does not excuse his play getting worse. Hard to imagine he won't be mopping by game 6. Team sucks all the way around. Time to burn it down and start over. Still amazed that half this board did not see this coming. But then again, those are the guys thinking the Yankees are alive and that Lebron will some day be a Knick.
RE: Eli is average at best now - maybe worse in this system
The offense has no more than 6 or 7 real NFL players. Eli isn't helped by his teammates, but that does not excuse his play getting worse. Hard to imagine he won't be mopping by game 6. Team sucks all the way around. Time to burn it down and start over. Still amazed that half this board did not see this coming. But then again, those are the guys thinking the Yankees are alive and that Lebron will some day be a Knick.
Yes yes but you saw it coming...congratu fucking lations...
I know you will be looking at a lucrative career as an NFL GM..
Being realistic, and not angrily pessimistic as I was above,
there will be a lot of humiliating games this season. The Giants will find out over time which of all the new players on the roster have talent. That big tight end who caught a couple of passes and looked good doing it - maybe he'll be a player.
Chaos could be expected tonight and into the first half of the season as all these new players who have never played together start to get used to each other and they and the veterans learn the new system. Will the improvement be enough to save Reese and Coughlin? I don't think a second losing season will be tolerated.
I'm sorry to bring this up again, but the Giants were crazy to let Nicks walk. Nicks and Cruz are the only good skill players on the roster except Nicks isn't on the roster and in his absence Cruz is going to find the going rough. Manning, Cruz, and Nicks made up a dangerous downfield passing game. Randle and Jernigan are not nearly as good and will probably not ever develop into solid starters.
Beatty was not the problem. This team got incredibly unlucky with the Nicks injury. Teams rarely lose a legitimate No 1 to injury that effectively rendered him a 2. Losing Wilson also really hurts this offense
With more time tonight, who was getting open. Cruz is an excellent receiver, but he was not, is not and never will be a 1. Much like when Nicks was hobbled, they have no one to stretch the field.
If there is no one to stretch the field the D stays close to the line an plugs the run
They need OBJ badly
The Steelers have spent a lot of high picks on the OL and still struggle to protect Ben - but they have deep threats
I can't see why Eli would even want to play much longer
Super rich, 2 time SB MVP, NY sports hero, long and successful career already, has a family and kids. Why would he risk all that and future quality of life so that he can be a tackling dummy while this franchise tries to rebuild over the next 2 or 3 years? I think he retires sooner than most think. No way in hell he's sticking around as long as Peyton has, and not just because he's not as good.
RE: Being realistic, and not angrily pessimistic as I was above,
there will be a lot of humiliating games this season. The Giants will find out over time which of all the new players on the roster have talent. That big tight end who caught a couple of passes and looked good doing it - maybe he'll be a player.
Chaos could be expected tonight and into the first half of the season as all these new players who have never played together start to get used to each other and they and the veterans learn the new system. Will the improvement be enough to save Reese and Coughlin? I don't think a second losing season will be tolerated.
I'm sorry to bring this up again, but the Giants were crazy to let Nicks walk. Nicks and Cruz are the only good skill players on the roster except Nicks isn't on the roster and in his absence Cruz is going to find the going rough. Manning, Cruz, and Nicks made up a dangerous downfield passing game. Randle and Jernigan are not nearly as good and will probably not ever develop into solid starters.
Nicks is a shell of his former self. He has no burst. This team doesn't miss Hakeem Nicks
RE: I can't see why Eli would even want to play much longer
Super rich, 2 time SB MVP, NY sports hero, long and successful career already, has a family and kids. Why would he risk all that and future quality of life so that he can be a tackling dummy while this franchise tries to rebuild over the next 2 or 3 years? I think he retires sooner than most think. No way in hell he's sticking around as long as Peyton has, and not just because he's not as good.
And that's why you'll respect him. Because he WILL stick around. I guarantee you he wants to win another as long as he is still physically able to.
It's just about being good. I think Eli seems like a great guy, and he's done some great things here. Same with Justin Tuck, Ahmad Bradshaw, Brandon Jacobs, Chris Snee, Corey Webster, and so on. Great Giants. Big parts of some memorable and exciting times. Lots of them aren't with the team anymore for one reason or another.
Eli makes a lot of money and he hasn't been good for a long time. Maybe he'll get better. Anything's possible with him. But at this point, we're basically hoping that he doesn't screw up too badly. That's not where you want to be with a 33 year old QB with a huge salary.
It's just about being good. I think Eli seems like a great guy, and he's done some great things here. Same with Justin Tuck, Ahmad Bradshaw, Brandon Jacobs, Chris Snee, Corey Webster, and so on. Great Giants. Big parts of some memorable and exciting times. Lots of them aren't with the team anymore for one reason or another.
Eli makes a lot of money and he hasn't been good for a long time. Maybe he'll get better. Anything's possible with him. But at this point, we're basically hoping that he doesn't screw up too badly. That's not where you want to be with a 33 year old QB with a huge salary.
I think with some above average protection he would be doing a much better job and this team would be a lot more competitive. Unfortunately that protection isn't coming anytime soon and it would appear that his receivers are probably the worst he's played with since college.
To be honest, Eli would have been better off if they had cut him after
It already wouldn't have been a sure thing he would have bounced back at that point, but by the time this season and team is done with him, there's going to likely be very very little shot for him to, wherever he plays (if he does) next season. He's likely going to be full-on damaged beyond repair goods.
He seems to be healthy right now and he caught all five passes for which he was targeted. And he's only 26, not 35 like Wayne.
On the other hand, that young receiver that Indy is so high on, T.Y. Hilton, didn't show me anything. He caught five of the 11 passes targeted for him and he should have caught more than that.
The GIants have neglected focus on the offensive line and it shows. Instead, the Giants put their stock on offense in playmakers at running back and receiver.
Unfortunately for Reese, those weapons al got hurt or didn't pan out. Nicks after being great, got hurt and potentially quit so as to make him useless. David Wilson had a career ending injury. Rueben Randle can't figure it out despite being the most NFL-ready WR of the draft class. And O'Dell Beckham has been hurt and missed everything. Reese's vision of the GIants future featured those players.
So I think Reese has had a lot of bad luck, but now it means that we have no weapons and we have no line. The end result is that Eli is being hung out to dry and doesn't have anyone who makes big plays happen.
What does that even mean? People respect him for what he's done in the past but want him to play better again. That's not disrespect. And he quit early on plays last year and in preseason this year by bailing out of the pocket early because he's understandably a bit gunshy.
RE: Well, Dave, we'll just have to see about Nicks as the season goes on.
He seems to be healthy right now and he caught all five passes for which he was targeted. And he's only 26, not 35 like Wayne.
On the other hand, that young receiver that Indy is so high on, T.Y. Hilton, didn't show me anything. He caught five of the 11 passes targeted for him and he should have caught more than that.
Nicks may not be the absolute bum he showed to be last season, but he's not that freakish receiver that was coming out of UNC either. A lot of wear and tear on that 26 year old body. I don't wish him ill will, just calling it as I see it. He's still got big hands so catching easy passes won't be a problem.
Beatty was not the problem. This team got incredibly unlucky with the Nicks injury. Teams rarely lose a legitimate No 1 to injury that effectively rendered him a 2. Losing Wilson also really hurts this offense
With more time tonight, who was getting open. Cruz is an excellent receiver, but he was not, is not and never will be a 1. Much like when Nicks was hobbled, they have no one to stretch the field.
If there is no one to stretch the field the D stays close to the line an plugs the run
They need OBJ badly
The Steelers have spent a lot of high picks on the OL and still struggle to protect Ben - but they have deep threats
Really, Beatty wasn't that bad tonight? I based my statement on three replays where he completely whiffed. I'd be happy if you were right.
Don't count on Beckham this year. When he finally gets onto the field he'll be a completely green player with a lot of almost completely green players. He doesn't have a lot of practice time with Eli and Eli doesn't have enough time to throw anyway. Maybe by the second half of the year they start to gel a little.
I'm concerned about Beckham heading into his rookie season hurt and unable to play. He may never be sound, or at best it will take him a year to catch on to everything.
But now I'm being negative again. The Giants will be very careful with him and he won't turn into one of those chronically injured players of whom Jerry has drafted so many.
Lets not equate Eli's failure with Rodgers or Brady's showings
Rodgers went up against a great D. And Brady is 37+ years old. Both these guys make it to the playoffs year after year. Eli went up agianst DETROIT. A loser team with a loser D and casme up short. He kills our defense with his turnovers by putting them back on the field. He hurts the OL with his Kerry Collins impersonation. Eli is a good QB some days but average on most and terrible here and there.
who do not understand football very well. Give Eli just average talent and he will keep this team competitive year in and year out. With no playmakers at the skill positions and a line that can't block long enough to allow a three step drop no QB will be successful.
against the Lions front 7 if his O line plays as poorly as it did against the Seahawks, and especially if Bulaga is out.At least he can throw to Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb.
who have no critical thinking skills in addition to marginal knowledge of football. There are trolls and juveniles and just a lot of dumbasses and jerks. And they ruin what can be enjoyable debate and discourse about our team and the game.
Were Eli's fault. Bad decisions and comms. That's on him. He's toast
the picks WERE on him and he's NOT toast. He can either accept the shit hand he's dealt and play safely mediocre, or he can risk his stats and his rep and take his shots and try and force it when it's clear if he doesn't they are in the shitter anyway. I'd rather have the INTs from the guy who still gives a shit and goes raging into the night than some lay down poofta who just accepts he's been screwed and plays out the string.
God bless ya, Eli, I'll take the INTs and watch him go down swinging every time, And so will TC for that matter.
it will be a sad day for this franchise when Eli isn't under center.
The desolate wasteland that awaits Giants fansns, the vast expanse of dry suffocating soul sucking desert of years upon years without plaayoff success that looms ahead after Eli is gone will elevate him, finally. to the level of respect that he deserves.
who do not understand football very well. Give Eli just average talent and he will keep this team competitive year in and year out. With no playmakers at the skill positions and a line that can't block long enough to allow a three step drop no QB will be successful.
That's not true, because Stafford was flushed out of the pocket repeatedly last night. Outside of Megatron, Detroit is the living definition of 'average' on offense.
The NFL is full of mobile quarterbacks now. People like Peyton, Brady, and Eli are a dying breed.
Although I agree if we had a great offensive line, he'd be doing well...the idea that all of the NFL have 'adequate' lines but us just isn't true.
That's not true, because Stafford was flushed out of the pocket repeatedly last night. Outside of Megatron, Detroit is the living definition of 'average' on offense.
The NFL is full of mobile quarterbacks now. People like Peyton, Brady, and Eli are a dying breed.
Although I agree if we had a great offensive line, he'd be doing well...the idea that all of the NFL have 'adequate' lines but us just isn't true.
you can't compare the Lions and the Giants. Not only is the Lions O-line vis a vis the Giants D line far better than the Giants O-line vis a vis the Lions D-line, but the Lions feature a better wide receiver corps, tight end corps, and running back corps.
The Lions O-line might be average, but they have Calvin Johnson who we saw last night is a freak of nature and requires double teams seemingly every play. They also have Golden Tate whose is great after contact and performed as well as Victor Cruz in many respects over the last two seasons.
And they have Reggie Bush who is as dangerous in open space as almost any running back in the league and Joique Bell who is a very good pass-catching running back.
Comparing the Lions offense to the GIants offense in terms of weapons shows a stark contrast.
favorite NYG player of all time. And he actually showed me last night that he isn't the problem here. HE can still sling it. The offense is just a massive cluster fuck of fail.
Any Giant fan that hates Eli, and there are a lot, can eat a dick. Dumb fucks that they are.
Be careful saying anything negative about BBI's boy toy. There are several folks here who are going to bed tonight with their Eli Manning Real Doll who are gonna be offended.
Cruz would start on the Lions. Not that it matters. Golden Tate is not the player Cruz is. If tate were a Giant he'd be a miserable failure just like everyone else is here.
I don't blame Eli. I blame Reese for this abomination of an offensive line.
I mean we have a left tackle who cut blocks an edge rusher. Who does that?
The hand he's been dealt is just beyond brutally unfair and pretty much unwinnable. He's never going to pack it up and play it safe to protect himself, so it's going to look even uglier, than it would with most other QBs too, which is going to bring the criticism on him even harder.
Jerry's post - ( New Window )
I agree, but it won't be.
They're going to take the fall, possibly huge hits to their legacies, and JR is going to ride on free and clear, at least as far as the team goes. Maybe his boy Marc Ross gets fired and that's a big maybe.
Agree 100%
The OL is terrible. He has one true wideout.
This has nothing to do with my Giants prediction, which stand at I think they'll improve as the season moves on, which is an opinion I've been 100% consistent with.
Eli is going to take a beating in the meantime.
Throwing it away avoids a turnover.
i will aleays love eli, but its obvious hes lost the edge.
The defense, including the secondary, was absolutely atrocious tonight.
I don't blame Eli. I blame Reese for this abomination of an offensive line.
Again, Reese changed all the players. And the same results. At some point you have to start looking at the HC and OL coach. Thats the only thing that hasn't changed
But he is now officially part of the problem.
Off target passes, rushed throws, happy feet... get used to it. We'll be watching it all season.
It's a total disaster and all one can do is hope and pray that they somehow get it together.
Quote:
He had nothing out there last season either.
I don't blame Eli. I blame Reese for this abomination of an offensive line.
Again, Reese changed all the players. And the same results. At some point you have to start looking at the HC and OL coach. Thats the only thing that hasn't changed
If you change bad players and bring in bad players, things will still be bad.
Guys like Jerry and Walton suck. Depth guys like Charles Brown were putrid elsewhere.
The Giants bringing them in wasn't magically going to make them good.
At the same time, he's paid handsomely - occupying $20m in cap space this year alone. I wouldn't ever hold it against these guys for trying to make top dollar, but given some of his limitations (in particular his immobility), I find it hard to feel sympathy for him at the same time. An extension that took him out of the upper tier of QBs could've resulted in sorely needed cap space to help build the O around him.
Quote:
He had nothing out there last season either.
I don't blame Eli. I blame Reese for this abomination of an offensive line.
Again, Reese changed all the players. And the same results. At some point you have to start looking at the HC and OL coach. Thats the only thing that hasn't changed
Just because he changed players doesn't mean they're all the right players or even better than what we had before. C and RG look like they're still problems to me.
Quote:
But everything in context wtf is he supposed to do? Throwing it away doesnt matter when your OL cant block and you cant rely on your receivers.
Throwing it away avoids a turnover.
The defense, including the secondary, was absolutely atrocious tonight.
Add in the offensive line and wr's and I'm onboard with it.
Embarrassing.
Be careful saying anything negative about BBI's boy toy. There are several folks here who are going to bed tonight with their Eli Manning Real Doll who are gonna be offended.
2008:
K. Phillips(32) C. Rachal(39) M. Pollack(59)
T. Thomas(63) J. Greco(66) J. Zuttah(83)
Manningham(95) C. Reinhardt(96) C. Wallace(107) K
Leichtensteiger(108) Mike MGlynn(109) S. Murphy(110) A.
Collins(112)
2009:
Nicks(29) E. Britton(39)
Sintim(45) M. Unger(49) A. Levitre(51) P. Loadholdt(54)
Vollmer(58)
Beatty (60) R. Brewster(75) A. Caldwell(77) Vasquez(78) K.
Urbik(79)
Barden(85) J. Luigs(106) T. Lang(109) R. Ornberger(123)
The last 3 lineman after A. Brown combined for 33 total starts
2010: Forget after JPP
L. Joseph(46) V. Ducasse(61) C. Brown(64) J. Asomoah(68) J.
Valdeheer(69) J. Jerry(73)
C. Jones(76) JD Walton(80) S. Luavo(92) M. Johnson(98) B.
Campbell(106)
P. Dillard(115) J. Hawley(117) J. Fox(128)
2011:
P. Amukamarta(19) A.Costanzo(22) D. Watkins(23) J.
Carpenter(28) G. Carimi(29) D. Sherrod(32) O.
Franklin(46) S. Wisnewski(48) B. Ijalana(49)
M. Austin(52) R. Hudson(55) M. Gilbert(63) J. Moffitt(75)
W. Rackley(76)
J. Jernigan(83) J. Reid(85) J. Barksdale(92) C. Boling(101)
D. Arkin(110)
The 3 OL taken after Brewer have performed the same as Brewer
2012:
After WIlson, you could argue about Schwartz, but Glenn was not viewed as an NFL LT. The other guys picked within 10 of Wilson are guards. Konz and M. Adams are bad.
The guys picked after Randle - LeRibeus, Stephenson, Brooks Holmes have not played much.
Look at the guys picked after Holsey - there is not much
I do not see a lot of neglect based upon draft picks and position, specifically LT and even RT. Majority of these guys are G. They were never going to draft Unger with Ohara here.
You can clearly debate some things about Reese and the draft, but the OL 'neglect' issue is really not part of that
Quote:
But his play has deteriorated
Be careful saying anything negative about BBI's boy toy. There are several folks here who are going to bed tonight with their Eli Manning Real Doll who are gonna be offended.
You sir are one of the biggest douchebags on this site so why don't you please go root for the Eagles...and take dim-bulb Les too..
You clearly are ignoring the stupid decisions he makes each and every week then. For a couple years now.
He's contributing to the problem, but he's not the root cause of it, for sure.
I honestly wonder if Nassib wouldn't be better at this point - only because our line is such shit, we still need someone mobile that can run around and take pressure off of our garbage offensive line.
They should have bitten the bullet, admitted that Beatty was an expensive mistake, and moved on to a new tackle. Beatty was just awful again tonight.
What made the Giants think that they had an improved running game this year? They have two slow, north-south running backs who can't catch.
But to be on the positive side, it shouldn't be that hard to improve the offense. The Giants can just go through the latest "out-of-football" book and find better talent.
2008:
K. Phillips(32) C. Rachal(39) M. Pollack(59)
T. Thomas(63) J. Greco(66) J. Zuttah(83)
Manningham(95) C. Reinhardt(96) C. Wallace(107) K
Leichtensteiger(108) Mike MGlynn(109) S. Murphy(110) A.
Collins(112)
2009:
Nicks(29) E. Britton(39)
Sintim(45) M. Unger(49) A. Levitre(51) P. Loadholdt(54)
Vollmer(58)
Beatty (60) R. Brewster(75) A. Caldwell(77) Vasquez(78) K.
Urbik(79)
Barden(85) J. Luigs(106) T. Lang(109) R. Ornberger(123)
The last 3 lineman after A. Brown combined for 33 total starts
2010: Forget after JPP
L. Joseph(46) V. Ducasse(61) C. Brown(64) J. Asomoah(68) J.
Valdeheer(69) J. Jerry(73)
C. Jones(76) JD Walton(80) S. Luavo(92) M. Johnson(98) B.
Campbell(106)
P. Dillard(115) J. Hawley(117) J. Fox(128)
2011:
P. Amukamarta(19) A.Costanzo(22) D. Watkins(23) J.
Carpenter(28) G. Carimi(29) D. Sherrod(32) O.
Franklin(46) S. Wisnewski(48) B. Ijalana(49)
M. Austin(52) R. Hudson(55) M. Gilbert(63) J. Moffitt(75)
W. Rackley(76)
J. Jernigan(83) J. Reid(85) J. Barksdale(92) C. Boling(101)
D. Arkin(110)
The 3 OL taken after Brewer have performed the same as Brewer
2012:
After WIlson, you could argue about Schwartz, but Glenn was not viewed as an NFL LT. The other guys picked within 10 of Wilson are guards. Konz and M. Adams are bad.
The guys picked after Randle - LeRibeus, Stephenson, Brooks Holmes have not played much.
Look at the guys picked after Holsey - there is not much
I do not see a lot of neglect based upon draft picks and position, specifically LT and even RT. Majority of these guys are G. They were never going to draft Unger with Ohara here.
You can clearly debate some things about Reese and the draft, but the OL 'neglect' issue is really not part of that
Don't agree. Cordy Glenn was definitely viewed as a LT, and in any event would have been a much better pick than Wilson. Drafting Glenn also would have removed the leverage Beatty had over us as a FA. They also took Sintim over Unger. You take the best player on the board, which never should have been Sintim, who didn't even fit our scheme. Jury is out on whether Pugh is better than Kyle Long, but Long had a very good rookie year IIRC. Brewer also looks bad. Reese said he had "left tackle feet." No, he has two left feet. And how about Petrus? McCants might be his best mid round pick, but he's now with the Raiders. Brown is bad. Walton doesn't look much better, and Schwartz had his problems during the preseason. I would say Reese has done a bad job with the OL, in the draft and FA.
Eli will never give up even though those around him lack experience/knowledge/ability. If you think Eli is the cause of our problems you really don't know much about football.
Audible wasn't crisp enough, lol, haven't heard that one before...
Eli will never give up even though those around him lack experience/knowledge/ability. If you think Eli is the cause of our problems you really don't know much about football.
Audible wasn't crisp enough, lol, haven't heard that one before...
Sums it up quite nicely.
Thank for at least looking at the premise and analyzing it quantitatively. It is amazing the whole "Repeat a lie enough and it becomes the truth" concerning the draft.
Got it..so then what happened to Brady and Rodgers this week..?
he doesn't need better WRs and OLmen... he just needs decent... other than Cruz and Jennings, does that define any of the Giants' starting offense tonight?
Did Randle make the trip? I didn't see him tonight.
People seem to forget the void after Simms and until Eli arrived. Eli does not need the cash that's for sure either.
Yes yes but you saw it coming...congratu fucking lations...
I know you will be looking at a lucrative career as an NFL GM..
Chaos could be expected tonight and into the first half of the season as all these new players who have never played together start to get used to each other and they and the veterans learn the new system. Will the improvement be enough to save Reese and Coughlin? I don't think a second losing season will be tolerated.
I'm sorry to bring this up again, but the Giants were crazy to let Nicks walk. Nicks and Cruz are the only good skill players on the roster except Nicks isn't on the roster and in his absence Cruz is going to find the going rough. Manning, Cruz, and Nicks made up a dangerous downfield passing game. Randle and Jernigan are not nearly as good and will probably not ever develop into solid starters.
With more time tonight, who was getting open. Cruz is an excellent receiver, but he was not, is not and never will be a 1. Much like when Nicks was hobbled, they have no one to stretch the field.
If there is no one to stretch the field the D stays close to the line an plugs the run
They need OBJ badly
The Steelers have spent a lot of high picks on the OL and still struggle to protect Ben - but they have deep threats
Chaos could be expected tonight and into the first half of the season as all these new players who have never played together start to get used to each other and they and the veterans learn the new system. Will the improvement be enough to save Reese and Coughlin? I don't think a second losing season will be tolerated.
I'm sorry to bring this up again, but the Giants were crazy to let Nicks walk. Nicks and Cruz are the only good skill players on the roster except Nicks isn't on the roster and in his absence Cruz is going to find the going rough. Manning, Cruz, and Nicks made up a dangerous downfield passing game. Randle and Jernigan are not nearly as good and will probably not ever develop into solid starters.
Nicks is a shell of his former self. He has no burst. This team doesn't miss Hakeem Nicks
And that's why you'll respect him. Because he WILL stick around. I guarantee you he wants to win another as long as he is still physically able to.
Eli makes a lot of money and he hasn't been good for a long time. Maybe he'll get better. Anything's possible with him. But at this point, we're basically hoping that he doesn't screw up too badly. That's not where you want to be with a 33 year old QB with a huge salary.
Eli makes a lot of money and he hasn't been good for a long time. Maybe he'll get better. Anything's possible with him. But at this point, we're basically hoping that he doesn't screw up too badly. That's not where you want to be with a 33 year old QB with a huge salary.
I think with some above average protection he would be doing a much better job and this team would be a lot more competitive. Unfortunately that protection isn't coming anytime soon and it would appear that his receivers are probably the worst he's played with since college.
It already wouldn't have been a sure thing he would have bounced back at that point, but by the time this season and team is done with him, there's going to likely be very very little shot for him to, wherever he plays (if he does) next season. He's likely going to be full-on damaged beyond repair goods.
I didn't see anyone on our offense that is arguably better than anyone on Detroit. WRs? TEs? RBs? Linemen? But somehow its the QBs fault.
The fact is that the Lions have underachieved for so long that they have been high in the draft forever. And now they have some really good players.
to let him go where he can continue his career successfully.
Now, ( *disclaimer* strictly on an unbiased basis) Eli would be putting up some serious numbers in Dallas.
I think though, that if Peyton calls it quits, it'd be a nice story if he took over in Denver for his brother...
On the other hand, that young receiver that Indy is so high on, T.Y. Hilton, didn't show me anything. He caught five of the 11 passes targeted for him and he should have caught more than that.
Unfortunately for Reese, those weapons al got hurt or didn't pan out. Nicks after being great, got hurt and potentially quit so as to make him useless. David Wilson had a career ending injury. Rueben Randle can't figure it out despite being the most NFL-ready WR of the draft class. And O'Dell Beckham has been hurt and missed everything. Reese's vision of the GIants future featured those players.
So I think Reese has had a lot of bad luck, but now it means that we have no weapons and we have no line. The end result is that Eli is being hung out to dry and doesn't have anyone who makes big plays happen.
On the other hand, that young receiver that Indy is so high on, T.Y. Hilton, didn't show me anything. He caught five of the 11 passes targeted for him and he should have caught more than that.
Nicks may not be the absolute bum he showed to be last season, but he's not that freakish receiver that was coming out of UNC either. A lot of wear and tear on that 26 year old body. I don't wish him ill will, just calling it as I see it. He's still got big hands so catching easy passes won't be a problem.
With more time tonight, who was getting open. Cruz is an excellent receiver, but he was not, is not and never will be a 1. Much like when Nicks was hobbled, they have no one to stretch the field.
If there is no one to stretch the field the D stays close to the line an plugs the run
They need OBJ badly
The Steelers have spent a lot of high picks on the OL and still struggle to protect Ben - but they have deep threats
Really, Beatty wasn't that bad tonight? I based my statement on three replays where he completely whiffed. I'd be happy if you were right.
Don't count on Beckham this year. When he finally gets onto the field he'll be a completely green player with a lot of almost completely green players. He doesn't have a lot of practice time with Eli and Eli doesn't have enough time to throw anyway. Maybe by the second half of the year they start to gel a little.
I'm concerned about Beckham heading into his rookie season hurt and unable to play. He may never be sound, or at best it will take him a year to catch on to everything.
But now I'm being negative again. The Giants will be very careful with him and he won't turn into one of those chronically injured players of whom Jerry has drafted so many.
God bless ya, Eli, I'll take the INTs and watch him go down swinging every time, And so will TC for that matter.
That's not true, because Stafford was flushed out of the pocket repeatedly last night. Outside of Megatron, Detroit is the living definition of 'average' on offense.
The NFL is full of mobile quarterbacks now. People like Peyton, Brady, and Eli are a dying breed.
Although I agree if we had a great offensive line, he'd be doing well...the idea that all of the NFL have 'adequate' lines but us just isn't true.
It's tough watching and getting a sense of what they must be feeling.
Looks like the end of an era.
That's not true, because Stafford was flushed out of the pocket repeatedly last night. Outside of Megatron, Detroit is the living definition of 'average' on offense.
The NFL is full of mobile quarterbacks now. People like Peyton, Brady, and Eli are a dying breed.
Although I agree if we had a great offensive line, he'd be doing well...the idea that all of the NFL have 'adequate' lines but us just isn't true.
you can't compare the Lions and the Giants. Not only is the Lions O-line vis a vis the Giants D line far better than the Giants O-line vis a vis the Lions D-line, but the Lions feature a better wide receiver corps, tight end corps, and running back corps.
The Lions O-line might be average, but they have Calvin Johnson who we saw last night is a freak of nature and requires double teams seemingly every play. They also have Golden Tate whose is great after contact and performed as well as Victor Cruz in many respects over the last two seasons.
And they have Reggie Bush who is as dangerous in open space as almost any running back in the league and Joique Bell who is a very good pass-catching running back.
Comparing the Lions offense to the GIants offense in terms of weapons shows a stark contrast.
Any Giant fan that hates Eli, and there are a lot, can eat a dick. Dumb fucks that they are.
Quote:
But his play has deteriorated
Be careful saying anything negative about BBI's boy toy. There are several folks here who are going to bed tonight with their Eli Manning Real Doll who are gonna be offended.