5 preseason games and we still can't get shit right...the Lions didn't skip a beat...I know it's about personnel, but fuck, people can't even run proper routes.
My expectations going into this year were zero. I think we just have to pray that Beckham turns into something because this O line is just horrendous. I don't know what the answer is, I love TC and I'm not ready to jump ship on Eli, but this team just isn't very good.
Good thing that they won those last couple of games in 2013
As the starting LT. Well except for Jerry. Beatme is a pathetic excuse for a starting NFL offensive lineman. The woes begin there. There are many woes but that is the biggest one.
The offense is completely bereft of talent all along the OL and at the WR positions. They can't run the ball when the opponent has 6 men in the box. Beatty and Pugh were absolutely fucking horrendous. JD Walton is absolutely fucking horrendous. Victor Cruz was absolutely fucking horrendous.
The defense's problem isn't lack of talent, but poor coaching and maybe stupidity. The mental mistakes FAR outweigh any physical problems the unit might have. I don't know why on earth the defense treated Calvin Johnson like he was Sinorice Moss (not even Santana). The second TD was ridiculous... a LB and safety on perhaps the best player in the sport???????????????????? Fewell completely shit the bed there.
To top it all off, they got a punt blocked too.
If you're going to be bad, be all the way bad. No bullshit winning streaks this year to fuck up the draft pick.
The defense that was supposed to be top 5 got totally owned and embarrassed, with the secondary that was supposed to rival Seattle's looking like they weren't even trying to cover Megatron half the time.
The offense's total lack of talent got exposed in brutal fashion.
STs couldn't even stop Weatherford from getting killed.
It's only one game, there still may be some miracle, but prospects are rough right now. They have to somehow win this week vs Arizona.
this year, so this didn't bother me too much. I just watched it like a pre-season game and kept an eye on some guys who could contribute in the future.
I thought Weston Richburg was fantastic. He didn't lose on many plays and he won more than his share. I'd like to hear others thoughts on this, especially on a re-watch, but he looked great to me.
I thought Hankins was really solid. Held his ground well, got a decent push. He's probably not going to be a huge play-maker, but he can anchor the middle.
JPP looked like he was getting back into form. He wasn't the 2011 model, but he was active and getting close. We really need another playmaker up front on D though.
I think if we had Schwartz the OL might've been decent. Jerry got his ass handed to him on a regular basis.
I'm not Matt Stafford's biggest fan, but I thought he was really good tonight. Good decision-making, accurate passes, made things happen with his feet. Great game from him.
we are paying premium for big names that are not performing while also paying for no-talent that should not be on the field. Then we pay for the coaching and management that select them. Can't get any worse than that. peace out.
No one really expected the offense to shine tonight. But everyone was healthy on defense. And, once again, we got a lousy gameplan from Perry Fewell. How Fewell has lasted this long with a franchise that used to pride itself on defense is a complete mystery to me.
I expect the offense to get better. I'm not giving up on Eli. Ever.
But this defense has me very worried. I just don't think Fewell is a legitimate defensive coordinator.
RE: Can't wait to see the bigots blame Reese, and Reese only
Our only prayer on offense was if Beckham was instant impact and the OL somehow played over its head. Neither is going to happen. Hope John Mara enjoyed Jernigan's performance, and Reese enjoyed Randle's. Both of them are awful NFL players. Jennings is a a decent back, nothing more - every team in the league has a Jennings in their backfield. Detroit's #3 TE is better than anything we've had at TE over the past two years, though Donnell had some moments.
Reese should lose his job, but won't. This roster has taken a nosedive on his watch, particularly in the trenches, where it all begins. I would advise a media blackout for Giants fans.
It's a talent issue and blame goes to the entire front office whether their complexion is white, black, or green with purple polka dots. Reese is in charge of the front office so whenever the talent level looks like it did in the 1970s, he's going to get the blame.
I don't think we can even judge TC or any head coach fairly when you have only one or two players who you can say are elite or very good at their positions
anyone blamiang the defense is stupid..they were gassed
We have no offensive threats that can stretch the field. None with Odell Beckham and his speed side-lined. Say what you will about RB David Wilson but if he was on the field on a 3rd and medium with a LB on him I'd have to bet we'd go to him with a pass and hope he beats the first guy. We don't have game-breakers, speed guys.
The OL we knew would take some time to gel and it showed tonight. Beatty sucked and the interior was beat consistently. Pugh didn't look good. We played a solid DL tonight and could not take advantage of their secondary.
Is WR Reuben Randle ever going to get his ass out of his head? Honestly, terrible again.
At the end of the day, Eli had a tough day trying to make things happen. It is clear players are not on the same page as he is and my guess is Eli is right and the players are not. We'll shore up some of this stuff this week during practice but no way we fix everything in a week.
It's a talent issue and blame goes to the entire front office whether their complexion is white, black, or green with purple polka dots. Reese is in charge of the front office so whenever the talent level looks like it did in the 1970s, he's going to get the blame.
I don't think we can even judge TC or any head coach fairly when you have only one or two players who you can say are elite or very good at their positions
You are making a very large assumption that they do not have a hand in the selection. I would have a hard time believing that they do not. So they are also accountable.
Hopefully, Eric will ban you on the ground of disgusting behavior. This the first time I've ever suggested that anyone be banned but in your case it's completely justified.
There's no room on BBI for anyone like you.
RE: TC looks lost in press conference. I feel bad for him
via draft and free agency and cohesion...as well as the receiving corp + TE group....Eli won't last that long...not with the Giants, at least....I will accept the fact that we have seen the best of Eli behind him, at least with the Giants.
this year, so this didn't bother me too much. I just watched it like a pre-season game and kept an eye on some guys who could contribute in the future.
I thought Weston Richburg was fantastic. He didn't lose on many plays and he won more than his share. I'd like to hear others thoughts on this, especially on a re-watch, but he looked great to me.
I thought Hankins was really solid. Held his ground well, got a decent push. He's probably not going to be a huge play-maker, but he can anchor the middle.
JPP looked like he was getting back into form. He wasn't the 2011 model, but he was active and getting close. We really need another playmaker up front on D though.
I think if we had Schwartz the OL might've been decent. Jerry got his ass handed to him on a regular basis.
I'm not Matt Stafford's biggest fan, but I thought he was really good tonight. Good decision-making, accurate passes, made things happen with his feet. Great game from him.
Nice post. I noticed Hankins a lot, too.
Not only are 3/5ths of the OL new, the line as presently assembled got very little opportunity to practice together in the preseason. They don't have any trust for each other yet. I doubt there's potential for a more than league-average line, but they will get better. (They also won't be up against competition this good for a few months, if at all.)
The front office of this team should be embarrassed. John Mara is full of wind. He will live his fathers life of the 60-70s. The question is will it be eighteen years of lousy football. Thank god I wasn't a sucker buying PSLs to watch this lousy product.
For experienced football fans to watch a game and recognize when it's a bad game and not a bad team after one game? You think no one will make play all year? Stop watching and enjoy the mma season.
Bad OL, no WR threats except Cruz, no TE, and a skittish, aging, utterly immobile QB. Take out Cruz, and gang up to stop the run, and you can beat the Giants. And that's what teams will do. Nobody cares if JJ and Donnell catch a few passes, even for first downs. This team also has no deep threat, and even if it did, there would be no time to get the ball downfield behind this OL and with Eli being so immobile.
D just got worn out.
Got to blame Reese. It's always a bad sign when you have to bring in a lot of players in FA as we did this past offseason. It's an indication that your GM has fucked up a lot of drafts. Which he did.
bc4life... the offense has ZERO/very little talent.
I don't know why anyone would even bother disputing that. The o-line is HORRENDOUS in every aspect and the receivers don't get open... not a single one of them doesn't struggle against press coverage.
This is a very un-Coughlin like PC. He does not seem confident, and the reporters are peppering him with strong questions.
Thinking it may be finally take a toll on him. Not his fault, but may finally see that this team may not turn around to where it wants to be (3-5 years down the line) and realizing he'll likely not be around to see it.
Are to blame. We had problems on the offensive line and at tight end last year and Reese tried to address it but obviously did a miserable job. Let's not forget that he is the GM that called Robinson,"the JPP of tight ends" and Randle,"NFL ready".How many high picks were wasted on skill players that are awful? I guess you can't change much when the scouting dept. is run by a member who owns the team!
I mean, if we're naming all the guys in the "absolutely fucking sucked" category. He was invisible. He made Jernigan look like he belonged on this team, that's how bad he was.
Since DAve Gettlemen left for Carolina this teams talent
For experienced football fans to watch a game and recognize when it's a bad game and not a bad team after one game? You think no one will make play all year? Stop watching and enjoy the mma season.
I wish I were as optimistic but I just don't see the talent. Who is the #1 receiver? Cruz needs a #1 to draw coverage from him (think about how much coverage Demaryius draws from Welker in Denver). Jennings is JAG. Andre Williams could be very good but he'll need the carries to prove it. The left side of the OL was getting overwhelmed, but Richburg looks promising. Pugh didn't play like a 1st round pick tonight either
I think the collective sentiment is perfectly rational and reasonable. The outlook was never brilliant.
Its been a shit product for years now. No ones shocked. No ones going into histrionics. Facts are facts. Its a bad team that will have a bad record. If you dont think so, you dont watch oother games around the league.
The saddest thing about this team is that even if the
offense gets it together ( a very big if), Perry Fewell just does not get it as a defensive coordinator. He just has no feel or idea on how to scheme pressure. Smart teams just pick us apart. No question the defense played much better than the offense tonight. But that 14-0 start put the nail in our coffin before we had a chance to blink. I saw signs of life from the offense. Donell can play. The offensive line was terrible, which is an improvement from there pre season grade of catastrophic. Some ideas for improvement. Jerrell Jernigan needs to be benched. Stinks. Damontre Moore needs to play, although, I can't say our D line played bad, we gotta get pressure. Moore maybe the only way to do it.
At least we were undefeated in preseason! Probably the only wins we'll have all year with this shitfest the Giants are trotting out on to the field this year.
What a fucking joke.
Eli running for his life on every play, meanwhile Stafford can sit back and smoke a fucking cigarette and sip some G*d*mn wine while scanning through each and every receiver option on every pass play.
No blocking and no pass rush equals another long fucking season.
YAY.
Its a Hellen Keller offense with Eli as the Miracle Worker
I guess I'm a bigot because I think the last couple drafts have not a single impact player. David Wilson, Reuben Randle, Justin Pugh, Richburg, Odell Beckham, the list goes on and on.
Why would anyone be a bigot if they blamed Reese? He has not drafted well and is in charge?
after the anger settles or the piss stops dribbling down your leg - you take a look at an objective what we have. Pugh had an unusually bad game but he is a solid starter. Richburg is going to be a good player but he is going to have some growing pains.
The rest of the OLine problem is really more about playing together than it is getting beat consistently due to a lack of talent.
The problem is not the talent as much as it is - they don't know the offense.
It's really sad when I am the voice of reason on this
still has glaring holes in a lot of areas and one of them is quality talent spread evenly in all areas and depth, but also philosophy and communication. OL is not as horrible as people make it out to be. There's a major issue with OL quality in the entire NFL. Very few teams have consistently good OL. Am I worred about them? Yes. But they aren't brutal.
Worst of all I don't see a QB who even comes close to delivering his current value in regards to the contract. I don't blame him entirely, but he's not able to "will" this team anymore to wins.
He needs a lot of help and his cap busting contract is a big reason why they aren't any good.
I'm going to waste 15 more Sundays of my life watching this crap.
This is such a total organizational failure from the owners to the players that it is going to take a while to build back up. Our offense was Jacksonville like tonight. We are one of the worst teams in the NFL, and I have no idea how that came to be so quickly. I am not surprised that we lost, and given now bad we looked in the preseason, I should not be surprised at all, I guess, though, I had that old first game of the year hope that came crashing down. This is 95-96 bad---or maybe even worse.
RE: I'm going to waste 15 more Sundays of my life watching this crap.
Not being able to block the person directly in front of you has NOTHING to do with "knowing the offense". Not being able to run the ball when the opponent only has 6 men in the box has nothing to do with "knowing the offense".
Unlike the defense, the mistakes on offense are as much physical as they're mental. Mental mistakes can be corrected over time. Lack of size, strength, and speed can only be corrected with new players.
Besides the qb, then TC should be fired. I don't think there is talent, but if there is talent, it has been so abysmally used that anyone associated with this offense for the last 2 years should be looking for work.
For experienced football fans to watch a game and recognize when it's a bad game and not a bad team after one game? You think no one will make play all year? Stop watching and enjoy the mma season.
I wish I were as optimistic but I just don't see the talent. Who is the #1 receiver? Cruz needs a #1 to draw coverage from him (think about how much coverage Demaryius draws from Welker in Denver). Jennings is JAG. Andre Williams could be very good but he'll need the carries to prove it. The left side of the OL was getting overwhelmed, but Richburg looks promising. Pugh didn't play like a 1st round pick tonight either
I don't think it requires a ton of optimism. I think it's just silly to think the team will look the same for 17 weeks. And I think it's silly to define a team's capability after one game on the road on opening night. There is no chance the team looks like this every game. Of all the things that didn't go right this game, the main thing I don't get is how you allow the one player on their team to dominate you when you know they will do everything in their power to give him chances to dominate. The loose zones on third and longs. The missed coverages. Who exactly did you think the ball was going to if it wasn't going to the best receiver in the game? If it looks like that all year, then yes cleaning house makes sense. But it's one game. In their house. On opening night. With a new group of players and a new oc. Main things to focus on are whether the line will learn to protect the best player on the team and whether the defense will ever learn how to stop third and long. It's shocking how poor this team is on third and long. Make one damn stop and the game changes.
you're stupid. This is a terrible team. There isn't a single skill player that scares the opponent's defense. There isn't a single quality O-linemen (maybe Pugh or Richburg will get there.) Eli has had a wonderful career, but most any journeyman would do as well with this group as he has, and a young guy who can scramble might do better. The defense may be respectable, but there is no real play maker in the front seven.
Guess you haven't watched the Giants much since the Steelers game in 2012. This is not one game, this has been going on since mid 2012. It might get slightly better, but where we are and where we need to be offensively to be a playoff team is so far away from each other, it just boils my blood when people say it is just one game. It is such an ignorant comment that seeks to forget about two years of crap play.
2 d lineman daring Peyton to run his first year. Covering Johnson 1 on 1 a lot tonight. Coverage was actually good but he's a beast. J Williams was the biggest disappointment tonight. I expected Brown to suck. I thought Williams could tackle.
Eli shouldn't have thrown the ball on either pick.
Donnell may have run the wrong route but you don't throw it if you see the receiver not turning around.
On the second pick you don't throw a floater. If he throws it to the sideline Cruz has a chance.
Hated seeing Eli looking at the lineman instead of looking for the open man - can't really blame him but that is the problem with the offense right now.
..was the Keystone Kops routine played by our defensive backfield several times tonight. This has gotten disgustingly repetitious over the last few seasons. I'm waiting for the obligatory Rolle interview where he tells us they have changed some communications, etc. etc.
is why we took ODB: we have no playmakers. NOBODY rises above the X's and O's and makes a big play and it was something Tom was imploring the team to do last year, too
Whether it's a receiver winning a jump ball a running back beating a lb in space a DE keeping his feet and making a sack , nobody is elevating their play
it's absolutely alarming that our D gives up SO MANY 3rd and longs. We dropped a DL into coverage and rushed 3 on four of those - all four resulted in big plays downfield Wouldn't a kindgarner figure out after the third try is wasn't a good idea. Those critizing Reese, where is the outrage over the pathetic Fewell again??? People are still harping we don't have a TE when Donnel looked every bit the part of a competent TE. The coaching is a real problem right now. They had another breakdown on punt protection as well, out of some weird alignment.
then as much as I've enjoyed their tenure you can't keep amy if the 3 in Tom Coughlin, Jerry Reese and sadly Eli Manning.
2 bad ints a team still unsure what the fk they are doing and a slew of players that haven't worked out as caliber picks.
just being real. Gotta go. Get your top 5 pick and bring in the new blood... MariottA or Winston and a new college coach. Hope we can get better talent evaluators too, cuz damn.
Randle and Jerrigan have to be the worst starting wideouts in football right now. Cruz had one nice catch and two big drops. Jennings and Williams didn't have much room to run and the playcalling wasn't great. The play where Cruz and Randle were blocking on an Eli rollout was nuts. It looked like a short pass to Williams was what they wanted to to do - but you have to wonder if that play should even exist in the playbook. Was there a slant thrown?
What I am having a hard time understanding is how any of what we did in the off season could fail so miserably to produce something different from last year. New offensive coordinator, new system, new receivers new tight end all the same problems. Nothing in the first three quarters came close to resembling any west coast offense I have ever seen. At least not until the last drive of the 3rd quarter going into the 4th.
Most of the game just looked like 2013 redux. We have a patch work offensive line and still run into 7 and occasionally 8 man fronts. We are still consistently setting eli up in third and long. Slow developing routes, receivers who have no idea what they are supposed to be doing, and vintage eli bad decisions and interceptions that make no physical sense but seem to happen to him 4-5 times a season.
On defense we spend a bunch of money in our secondary yet on almost every thirst and long we are still playing zone. A coverage that we have run poorly throughout Coughlin's tenure but Fewell should know better himself by this point.
Did anyone see anything that really looked new or improved out of this team until our possession at the end of the 3rd quarter going into the 4th?
On a positive note we looked really good in man coverage in general, and prince looked like a boss. Also The tight end position looks like it is going to be manageable (or at least not the reason we go 5-11) and the front seven looked really solid against the run.
Here's hoping we can make some adjustments to or scheme and find a pass rush. Also benching Randle couldn't hurt. Anyways it was a fun first post look forward to all the love for years to come ;)
We don't have the personnel for it. We have man cover corners, you know, the type of corners every team wants? So what does Fewell do with DRC? Have him chuck a guy that is 40 lbs. heavier and then disengage after 10 yards? Why pay DRC millions when any scrub CB can do that?!?
Also, the rules changes make make the cover 2 completely ineffective; CBs can't make any contact at all, and safeties will get a penalty if they blast a receiver to knock the ball loose.
It's a dead defense. It's what, 15 years old now? Back in 1999 it was new and fresh, and guys like John Lynch could thump WRs running deep. Now, every team knows how to exploit it. Gruden was right to call out Fewell.
I think it's obvious why we drafted Beckham. We don't have anyone who threatens the defense over the top without him. And as good as Cruz is, he's not that guy when he's the sole focus of the defenses attention
and maybe some people here will just give it a rest...
Eli Manning is going to QB this team until he can't anymore. Because the people in charge recognize that when he has a team that plays at his level, he is every bit as good as most of the best QB's in the league. No one has more balls. No one stays on the field more when they are banged up. No one can argue he can't make the throws. No one can argue he doesn't give a crap or try harder than most players on this team or any team.
So here's the deal for many of you....
Eli is the QB. Get used to it. Many of us if not most of us are freakin thrilled about that. When I watch these games, I literally see him as last in line when it comes to whom to blame. So should you. If he had time to pass, and guys who could get open and make plays, he would dominate. If you don't agree, I wish you could see things differently and understand how lucky we are to have this guy as the QB. He's going to be the QB for a while. Get used to it and focus on the players who can't match his testicle level or effort or ability.
So now we can focus on the real problems. Namely, it takes blocking and a run game and receivers who will put it on the line to make plays in order to win. When that stuff works itself out, no one will whine about the QB.
This is week one. It will get better.
area junc... it didn't even have to be a good block.
Too many changes all at once. New players with not enough playing time together to know how to play well as a team. New OC, system & (complicated?) playbook, hand signals not working, changing Elis stance, etc...
Should be playing man to man, no cover 2.
Detroit has quickly become a good team after MANY years of being a terrible team. Thats the way the current NFL works. It allows terrible teams to become good teams over time. I and many others on this forum have watched the Giants go through a few of these cycles.
the talent level on this team has gone steadily down hill for the past five years. The talent that was already here got old and injured and moved on from the SB team rosters. They were not replaced via the draft or FA. So here we are. Time to clean house with a new GM and overhaul of the scouting staff. Let the NEW GM restaff those areas and rebuild. No JR should not be retained. This happened on his watch. We need a fresh start sooner rather than later. TC will most likely retire but who knows.
you're stupid. This is a terrible team. There isn't a single skill player that scares the opponent's defense. There isn't a single quality O-linemen (maybe Pugh or Richburg will get there.) Eli has had a wonderful career, but most any journeyman would do as well with this group as he has, and a young guy who can scramble might do better. The defense may be respectable, but there is no real play maker in the front seven.
Thye are a terrible team now, and hard times lom ahead, but they will be tried and tested liek steel in a furnace, the wheat will separate from the chaff, the cream will rise and they will get better.give it time. That said Jerry Reese needs to be run out of town on a rail, if for no other reason than to prevent a riot where the town gets looted and burnt down.He's a good scout, an excellent adminsitrator,handles interactions with others well and is a fine decent god fearing man.At this point though it seems his talents lie with evaluating players, as opposed to actually picking them and putting together a functional roster.Too many keepers he let go, too many misses on his swings for the fences, both in the draft and the FA.A home run hitter is great, as long as he hits enough of them to justify his rep. At this point Reese is not that guy.
no one could have foreseen the defense playing that bad. they brought in a ton of secondary talent and they looked like crap
it is indeed bitter pill.2 questions. Can DRC inject some real discipline into his play, and can Brown elevate his level of Play. If not we have issues with 2 starters in a secondary we had assumed was squared away. This is the biggest issue to emerge from this game besides the number one issue, which is clearly the ineptitude of the "offenseive" line.
are a pretty talented team who I thought were held back by their jackass coach, though they still committed a bunch of penalties, but it appeared that stafford took a big step up especially when being pressured.
would be at this point in the season. Inexperienced with little time to gel and question marks in multiple spots. Unfortunately, much of our fortune hinges on their success. We can't run, we can't pass protect and hence, we see what happened last night. The defense can't be expcted to stay out on the field that long and hang in there, particularly in the first game where conditioning is an issue.
and maybe some people here will just give it a rest...
Eli Manning is going to QB this team until he can't anymore. Because the people in charge recognize that when he has a team that plays at his level, he is every bit as good as most of the best QB's in the league. No one has more balls. No one stays on the field more when they are banged up. No one can argue he can't make the throws. No one can argue he doesn't give a crap or try harder than most players on this team or any team.
So here's the deal for many of you....
Eli is the QB. Get used to it. Many of us if not most of us are freakin thrilled about that. When I watch these games, I literally see him as last in line when it comes to whom to blame. So should you. If he had time to pass, and guys who could get open and make plays, he would dominate. If you don't agree, I wish you could see things differently and understand how lucky we are to have this guy as the QB. He's going to be the QB for a while. Get used to it and focus on the players who can't match his testicle level or effort or ability.
So now we can focus on the real problems. Namely, it takes blocking and a run game and receivers who will put it on the line to make plays in order to win. When that stuff works itself out, no one will whine about the QB.
This is week one. It will get better.
Good post. He still makes some bonehead decisions, but for the most part I agree with you.
and maybe some people here will just give it a rest...
Eli Manning is going to QB this team until he can't anymore. Because the people in charge recognize that when he has a team that plays at his level, he is every bit as good as most of the best QB's in the league. No one has more balls. No one stays on the field more when they are banged up. No one can argue he can't make the throws. No one can argue he doesn't give a crap or try harder than most players on this team or any team.
So here's the deal for many of you....
Eli is the QB. Get used to it. Many of us if not most of us are freakin thrilled about that. When I watch these games, I literally see him as last in line when it comes to whom to blame. So should you. If he had time to pass, and guys who could get open and make plays, he would dominate. If you don't agree, I wish you could see things differently and understand how lucky we are to have this guy as the QB. He's going to be the QB for a while. Get used to it and focus on the players who can't match his testicle level or effort or ability.
So now we can focus on the real problems. Namely, it takes blocking and a run game and receivers who will put it on the line to make plays in order to win. When that stuff works itself out, no one will whine about the QB.
This is week one. It will get better.
Seth, yes... Eli Manning has done very good things for this team. That in no way absolves him from a lot of poor play that he has been personally responsible for leading all the way back to late 2012. Is he solely to blame? Of course not! He's just been part of the problem the way all the other players have been.
But the fact that you see him last in line in terms of blame says everything about your bias. On both INTs he threw last night, he was first in line for the blame.
And I have to agree, I think even as his skills decline, he will still be a qb that gives you the best chance too win. as far as his shitty plasy and INTs go, I have come to reralize it doesnt matter. In those situations they are lsoing anyway. what he's actually doing is giving them a fighting chance. I thinkl what a lot of people dont get is that he is playing the same way he did when he won 2 super bowls. he is taking the same risks. the difference is then he had the playmakers. If he has them he will succeed, and when he doesn't he won't. That said, it sure would be nice if he learned how to throw a fucking short ball.
I was think in the last few days, and especially after yeasterdays game that Eli manning my not end his career in NY, that he may be let go, and then go on the road amnd spend 4-5 years spmewhere else, and I realized even if he did he'd still have a chance at another SB if he got on a team with a good OL and some receivers with a decent RB. he may as well stay here and do it here. Frankly i could see him staying here and struggling, throwing INTs and having a couple of seasons of abysmal stats until he gets proper support and winning another SB. One thinkkg he's proved is that he has it, he knows how. It's not like his play was worth a shit the years he won the SBs until it was playoff time anyway.May as well ride him till he breaks, we aren't gonna do better.He'll still be able to pull it out of his ass if he gets the supporting cast. it's also clear TC isn't the issue. The Giants main problem is their personell, and perhaps the Hubris of Jerry Reese.Seeing what he has given this coach to work with AGAIN, after last year,I I no longer have confidence in him.
They were a 3 win team last year who won 7 games because they got a bunch of scheduling breaks. And anyone who thinks that was helpful or could build momentum heading into this year was always laughably wrong
everyone deserves blame. That includes the qb. Im sick of the excuses for him too. You literally cant play worse than his last year plus, I dont care who was back there. Last years offense was worse relative to the league average than any offense led by brown, kannell or graham, and now we're on track to be just as bad. There is not a soul who doesnt have ownership of this and it wont get better anytime soon
They were a 3 win team last year who won 7 games because they got a bunch of scheduling breaks. And anyone who thinks that was helpful or could build momentum heading into this year was always laughably wrong
everyone deserves blame. That includes the qb. Im sick of the excuses for him too. You literally cant play worse than his last year plus, I dont care who was back there. Last years offense was worse relative to the league average than any offense led by brown, kannell or graham, and now we're on track to be just as bad. There is not a soul who doesnt have ownership of this and it wont get better anytime soon
If Matthew Stafford was given the choice of choosing any playres from our offense to be part of the Lions, he would laugh his ass off.
BUT, if the OL gets their shit together it could turn around very very quickly. Cruz could get hot at any time.They get some runblocking and all of a sudden you have a ground game that opens things up for the passing game. Hey, it looks awful now but that dont mean in 2-3 weeks when wonder boy macapoo has some games under his belt . donell may continue to develop. Beason and Brown may knock the rust off.Moore may learn a little discipline. JPP may pick up where he left off nect week and be stout against the run and warm up as the season goes on with the pass rush. I simply don't expect Eli to suck into,perpetuity either. he's showm he's too prideful for that.TC will keep them together for a few weeks anyway, they may get better as the year goes on. Have some hope.
Matthew stafford by default could not play any worse
and lets keep the supporting cast arguments in mind when we largely ignore them when it comes to ring counting vs other qbs. Lets also bury the notion that eli carried a garbage cast in 2011, because as we can clearly see now, without adequate support eli manning is not above looking like blaine gabbert. At minimum hes not elevating shit like someone of his pay grade should
and im comforted by the fact that eli holds himself to a higher standard than his fans do. Because I sure as fuck know he doesnt think all his issues are on outside factors
Matthew stafford by default could not play any worse
and lets keep the supporting cast arguments in mind when we largely ignore them when it comes to ring counting vs other qbs. Lets also bury the notion that eli carried a garbage cast in 2011, because as we can clearly see now, without adequate support eli manning is not above looking like blaine gabbert. At minimum hes not elevating shit like someone of his pay grade should
and im comforted by the fact that eli holds himself to a higher standard than his fans do. Because I sure as fuck know he doesnt think all his issues are on outside factors
I think Eli+WR's carried that team. The line sucked. We had elite receivers, but Eli had an MVP-like season that year.
or having to suffer through a repeat of it this season, is the lingering feeling that we are approaching another mid-90s-esque stretch of utter mediocrity (or worse) in Giants football.
If so, it was one helluva run and to get 2 rings out of it is tremendous and all one could ask for, but the thought of having to watch Dave Brown-like teams again is sickening.
Don't want to get too ahead of myself. Definitely not there yet. Also, a couple positives include that Hankins looks like a true anchor and someone you can build around.
Matthew stafford by default could not play any worse
and lets keep the supporting cast arguments in mind when we largely ignore them when it comes to ring counting vs other qbs. Lets also bury the notion that eli carried a garbage cast in 2011, because as we can clearly see now, without adequate support eli manning is not above looking like blaine gabbert. At minimum hes not elevating shit like someone of his pay grade should
and im comforted by the fact that eli holds himself to a higher standard than his fans do. Because I sure as fuck know he doesnt think all his issues are on outside factors
Joe, there isnt a single QB in the league that would succeed on this team. Is Eli done? Probably. But if you think you can roll a Rodgers, Brees, or Peyton on this team and they make us a playoff team? You're kidding yourself.
The OL maybe worse than the 2003 line led by Jeff Roehl and Ian Allen. Our WRs are pathetic. They arent big, they arent fast, and all 3 hav suspect hands. You watch a lot of football... can our WRs make the catch Megatron made in the end zone? Or how about the one Kelvin Benjamin made for Panthers. Lets not even get started on YAC. 7 catches for 50 yards and at least 4 drops, probably more. I dont care who is QBing, we didnt have WRs running open all game wanting the ball.
We have no talent on this team. Its not absolving the blame from Eli, its just showing the facts.
There were two distinct seasons that year. Games 1 to 14 where we were 7-7, and then the last 6 including playoffs. In the latter sample, the defense and running game were excellent too
and for the record im not blaming eli exclusively. Im just refusing to completely absolve him like many others are
Everything starts with the O_Line .I've been a hugh Giants fan since 1966 and know something about football as i saw it last night teh Giants O-Line should be left to right...I'll hold my nose and start with LT_Beatty LC_Snyder C_Richburg RG_ Mosley RT_PUGE......Walton and Jerry take them out back and shoot them .......4 - 12 season Welcome Bill Cowher .
BUT, if the OL gets their shit together it could turn around very very quickly. Cruz could get hot at any time.They get some runblocking and all of a sudden you have a ground game that opens things up for the passing game. Hey, it looks awful now but that dont mean in 2-3 weeks when wonder boy macapoo has some games under his belt . donell may continue to develop. Beason and Brown may knock the rust off.Moore may learn a little discipline. JPP may pick up where he left off nect week and be stout against the run and warm up as the season goes on with the pass rush. I simply don't expect Eli to suck into,perpetuity either. he's showm he's too prideful for that.TC will keep Ghost; Love your thoghts and would like them to come true. Nobody wants to see our team look this bad, feel bad for TC and ELI in particular after the great years. We have to do it in this first half before the bye week becuase it will be too late after that with the schedule getting harder. them together for a few weeks anyway, they may get better as the year goes on. Have some hope.
Ghost love your thoughts and hope you are right. Feel sorry for TC and ELi in particular after the great years. They will have to do it in the first half before the BYE because the schedule gets much tougher after that.
There were two distinct seasons that year. Games 1 to 14 where we were 7-7, and then the last 6 including playoffs. In the latter sample, the defense and running game were excellent too
and for the record im not blaming eli exclusively. Im just refusing to completely absolve him like many others are
just because we say guys liek Cruz, Randle, Ough, and Beatty played like shit, doesnt mean we are absolving Eli either.
HE missed some throws early. But if you came away last night thinking Eli was the main problem, Ill just disagree with you and move on. I have been saying it for a year now.... there is no talent at WR/OL.
I'm a big Eli fan but he simply is not very good with short yardage
throws. you go look at a PFF breakdown on him and his percentage in throws 29yds and over is actually higher than his throws of 4 yards or less. he can't throw a short ball on target.
Im with you on the fact that this team sucks. I think its a stretch to say a truly elite qb like a rodgers, brees, peyton or brady couldnt do more with this group, at minimum not author the worst offense in giants history which the giants since 2013 have very arguably been (relative to league averages).
Im with you on the fact that this team sucks. I think its a stretch to say a truly elite qb like a rodgers, brees, peyton or brady couldnt do more with this group, at minimum not author the worst offense in giants history which the giants since 2013 have very arguably been (relative to league averages).
Well of course I think they would be better too. I may have overstated it, but lets just say we aint winning a SB with them.
They are better "throwers" And a guy like Luck or Rodgers could move around and buy more time, but it wouldn't equal to that much change in the offense in my opinion. Those qbs won't make the OL block better, the wrs get open, and the miscommunications stop. Those qbs will make some better throws, but how Eli throws the football isn't the problem.
between McAdoo and Eli. I think McAdoo will be fired midseason. You just can't change a QB like Eli that drastically after he's been in the same routine for 10 years. Reese and co. should have gotten someone similar to Gilbride, with a few wrinkles.
between McAdoo and Eli. I think McAdoo will be fired midseason. You just can't change a QB like Eli that drastically after he's been in the same routine for 10 years. Reese and co. should have gotten someone similar to Gilbride, with a few wrinkles.
it's possible.I will say Eli would greatly benifit at this stage of his careeer if he could learn the short game.The fact is the days of the 7 step drop are gone. They almost have to adapt their tactics to the ralities of the NFL. there is no going back to a gilbride style offense. Traning camp schedule preclude their proper installation and dont give the time needed to become prficient in them. adapt we must.simplicity and speed are the order of the day in the modern NFL
between McAdoo and Eli. I think McAdoo will be fired midseason. You just can't change a QB like Eli that drastically after he's been in the same routine for 10 years. Reese and co. should have gotten someone similar to Gilbride, with a few wrinkles.
This is an insane knee-jerk reaction to ONE game. I knew I should have avoided this thread, but like a motorist driving past a wreck, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to check out the carnage.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath and chill the fuck out. Its one game with a totally new line and a totally new offense.
and it was bad, I got the feeling that if we had Johnson and they didn't we could've won. He is most of their offense. What a player. Most of the time Stafford just has to buy enough time for Johnson to get into his route, then he throws him the ball no matter what the coverage is ..... and it works. Best WR since J Rice I think, maybe better.
This offensive line looks lost. Offense looks inept!
During the off-season, I was hopeful the Giants would place a high emphasis on rebuilding their putrid offensive line, which at first glance, based on the free agent acquisitions and drafting of C/G Weston Richburg, looked promising. Last year, with the Giants O-line being decimated with injuries and starters under-performing, you could see what Reese was attempting to do. He was building offensive line depth with 27-under players, ALL with plenty of NFL experience on their resumes, then added Richburg in the 2nd round. On paper, these off-season moves made perfect sense, especially when considering both Diehl and Snee retired, Beatty was recovering from a broken leg, C David Baas was released, and our backup lineman including Eric Herman, James Brewer, and Brandon Mosely had only 9 combined career starts. To say that our Offensive line needed to be completely overhauled was an understatement with Justin Pugh being the lone bright spot for the future.
Everyone still with me?
So, Reese brings in the following free agent linemen (See Below). Again, on paper, I thought the moves would at least temporarily stabilize our putrid line for the 2014 season and give Eli some more time in the pocket to find receivers.
G John Jerry - 57 GP, 45 starts
C J.D. Walton - 36 GP, 36 starts
G/T Geoff Schwartz - 61 GP, 26 starts
T Charles Brown - 37 GP, 22 starts
Right now, as I sit here and type this after watching last night's game, I don't think anyone has answers, nor do the Giants.
You can blame Reese, Eli, position coaches, and anyone else if it makes you feel better. But, truth be told, Eli is a statue in the pocket and plays his worst games when under constant pressure. Last night was no different. They played terrible up front!! Zero running lanes for the ground game (53 yards rushing) and receivers never seemed to have the opportunity of finishing their routes.
Problem is, the off-season and draft are completed. So, we are stuck with this current group of offensive lineman.
5-6 wins would be a miracle for this season if the O-Line plays as poorly as they did last night the rest of the way...
Eli's confidence seems shot! And, who can blame him. He has no time to throw the ball, never the opportunity to settle down and get in sync, and the ground attack can't get anything going to keep defenses honest.
It could be a LONG ass season this year, so settle in for the ride!
Id be lying if I said its truly that heartbreaking. Im numb to it off last year, my expectations were very low entering this season anyway, and with two recent superbowls in the bank im aware enough of my fan fortune to not get too crazy. Last night was remarkably easy to take.
We are pretty far off right now. But you could turn it around very quickly in this league. Have a couple offseasons like 04 and 05, and this too shall pass
Id be lying if I said its truly that heartbreaking. Im numb to it off last year, my expectations were very low entering this season anyway, and with two recent superbowls in the bank im aware enough of my fan fortune to not get too crazy. Last night was remarkably easy to take.
We are pretty far off right now. But you could turn it around very quickly in this league. Have a couple offseasons like 04 and 05, and this too shall pass
I have seen this playbook before. McAdoo's offense looked more like Mr. Magoo's offense. A 'work in progress' is an understatement. When they brought Fran Tarkenton in, it was supposed to rev up the O. That lasted 1 year; when they brought Payton in, it was supposed to rev up the offense- it did, but it happened in N.O.; and now this.
Someone suggested we need play-makers- no, we need a Coaching staff that knows how to adapt a play scheme to the players, not the other way around. This is a TC built team trying to graft on a foreign scheme. It doesn't work.
I have not witnessed Eli getting hit so many times and so hard since his first year when they inserted him in place of Kurt Warner. We are watching the complete ruination of a SB quarterback- doesn't matter of how much he has bought into the system or how hard he tries. Eli is a drop back, pocket QB, who no longer has a pocket or time to drop back and find his receivers who are now hanging around just over the line of scrimmage.
Rh, why bother- t5hat was a disgraceful performance. BTW, can someone tell Cruz that the pre-season is over. Now that I have gotten that off my chest, I can move on to watching Tampa and Jax get carved up every week- it's far less painful because I don't care,.
G John Jerry - 57 GP, 45 starts
C J.D. Walton - 36 GP, 36 starts
G/T Geoff Schwartz - 61 GP, 26 starts
T Charles Brown - 37 GP, 22 starts
They thought they had addressed the issue.none of those guys are performing well now, if at all, and none seem to be hidden diamonds in the rough so much as cast of unpolishable turds that we though we could polish.They thought they had answers and like you say, i don't think anyone does.
You can try and blame it on reese saying he didn't do his due dilligence, that he got lousy players he overpaid for, or the reality may be they really were the best available, they simply weren't much good though.
I said in another thread I thought they are in year 2 of a 3 year rebuild, but the way things have gone for the pisces added last year (with the exception of Jenkins and patterson and the drafting of Hankins, as last years offseason focus was on rebuilding the defensive line)the new parts simply don't seem to be working.
It's like working all day busting your ass to change a boiler, and when you fire the new one up you discover the cast Iron ics cracked, and you have to pull it, return it, buy another one and start it all over again.
Between bad draft picks in mid rounds, injuries to early round picks, FA dus who either don't perform or get injured, our top round draft picjks not working out and someof our better players pricing themselves to high for us to keep Like bennett and Joseph, we just aren't having any luck putting together a roster and it just seems more and more like a patchwork cobbled together out of desperation than a strong roster tailored to fit our schemes and philosophy. Ultimately it's on reese but in fairness the guy has had little luck, compounding the few bad choices he's made look much worse.
I have seen this playbook before. McAdoo's offense looked more like Mr. Magoo's offense. A 'work in progress' is an understatement. When they brought Fran Tarkenton in, it was supposed to rev up the O. That lasted 1 year; when they brought Payton in, it was supposed to rev up the offense- it did, but it happened in N.O.; and now this.
Someone suggested we need play-makers- no, we need a Coaching staff that knows how to adapt a play scheme to the players, not the other way around. This is a TC built team trying to graft on a foreign scheme. It doesn't work.
I have not witnessed Eli getting hit so many times and so hard since his first year when they inserted him in place of Kurt Warner. We are watching the complete ruination of a SB quarterback- doesn't matter of how much he has bought into the system or how hard he tries. Eli is a drop back, pocket QB, who no longer has a pocket or time to drop back and find his receivers who are now hanging around just over the line of scrimmage.
Rh, why bother- t5hat was a disgraceful performance. BTW, can someone tell Cruz that the pre-season is over. Now that I have gotten that off my chest, I can move on to watching Tampa and Jax get carved up every week- it's far less painful because I don't care,.
"But a deal between the NFL and the union on a new drug policy could come as soon as this week. As part of that deal, players recently suspended for violations (that would no longer warrant suspensions) are expected to get their bans retroactively reduced or repealed."
Id be lying if I said its truly that heartbreaking. Im numb to it off last year, my expectations were very low entering this season anyway, and with two recent superbowls in the bank im aware enough of my fan fortune to not get too crazy. Last night was remarkably easy to take.
We are pretty far off right now. But you could turn it around very quickly in this league. Have a couple offseasons like 04 and 05, and this too shall pass
That's ultimately how I feel. I mean sure, I wish the Giants could manage to treat me to the sort of entertaining performance that teams like the Broncos or the Seahawks treat their fans to, but those special Super Bowl runs do linger. And I've always been the sort who likes observing the process of building something from nothing -- the "origin story" if you will.
We're in for an origin story pretty soon, and it will be interesting to see it unfold.
he became Carolina GM in 2013. Before, he left the Giants in 2012, he presumably had a hand in scouting and drafting David Wilson, Rueben Randle, Jayron Hosley, Adrien Robinson, Brandon Mosley, and Matt McCants. I think this theory is flawed.
he doesn't fit the offense they have installed. Qb's a lot of them can run the ball ,move around and improvise. Eli is a statue with no line blocking , ppoor receivers, and short stuff hurry up schemes where he's duck out of water'. He needs great blocking and receivers who can get clear and an offense that lets him zip the ball intermediate and long. Not gonna happen. Can't see us staying with Eli much longer. McAddoo thinks he's got Aaron Rodgers. And Coughlin. Who knows what he's thinking.
It was 14-7 early in the 3rd quarter, we had the ball after the KO and Eli was flushed and threw a horrible int. He escaped the rush and still made a horrible, rookie mistake. He's been doing it for 2 plus seasons now. Makes a back breaking mistake when we are still in the game.
this offense could have played worse? I hear the FAN talkies going on and on about the stupid idea to replace Coordinators--firing Gilbride for McAdoo.
I loved Gilbride for what he did here, but if his offense is playing last night, the Giants don't score a point. They lose 42-0.
the playcalling was a little odd down in the RZ with the 3 straight fades but they did score the TD there. I can't kill the playcalling...but WFAN sure as fuck can. They have all morning.
The playcalling was good enough to score two TDs and last year the playcalling couldn't move the ball out of a paper bag. The offense still sucks but now all I see is people saying the Giants were nuts to fire KG for a whole new system...gimme a break.
requires a much bigger sample than we have yet seen. Wait, be patient, before taking aim at everything and everybody, and if the team improves you may be able to hold up your head and say, I knew it all along.
Half of them can't run routes, the other half can't catch, and the other half can't block. Yes 3 halves! How can we not have a single WR that make a play on the ball. Drop after drop and this isn't the only year. The last few years have been like this! Off the WRs hands, off the WRs hands, off the WRs hands... come on! Cruz you are getting paid huge, you have to make these catches. Go watch the replay of the Jerrigan deep pass... The defender actually misses the ball and he couldn't catch it as it hits right in his hand! We are so bad at catching the football and that of course is only when we run the right damn route! So stupid that Jerry Reese has given us such bad Offensive players surrounding Eli.
Good lord.
DRC got worked too
HEY MARA, the OL is failing again. Tell us "nobody saw this coming" except for all of us.
That said....this was probably the best front 4 the Giants will face all year.
But....But...But....two super bowls !?!
The defense's problem isn't lack of talent, but poor coaching and maybe stupidity. The mental mistakes FAR outweigh any physical problems the unit might have. I don't know why on earth the defense treated Calvin Johnson like he was Sinorice Moss (not even Santana). The second TD was ridiculous... a LB and safety on perhaps the best player in the sport???????????????????? Fewell completely shit the bed there.
To top it all off, they got a punt blocked too.
If you're going to be bad, be all the way bad. No bullshit winning streaks this year to fuck up the draft pick.
We didn't seem to have much of a pass rush. Will JPP, Moore and "anyone" else step up?
Detroit has a Top 8 offense so I expected they'd move the ball but without flustering Stafford we had no chance.
The defense that was supposed to be top 5 got totally owned and embarrassed, with the secondary that was supposed to rival Seattle's looking like they weren't even trying to cover Megatron half the time.
The offense's total lack of talent got exposed in brutal fashion.
STs couldn't even stop Weatherford from getting killed.
It's only one game, there still may be some miracle, but prospects are rough right now. They have to somehow win this week vs Arizona.
Yeah. Williams and DRC were bad also.
I thought Weston Richburg was fantastic. He didn't lose on many plays and he won more than his share. I'd like to hear others thoughts on this, especially on a re-watch, but he looked great to me.
I thought Hankins was really solid. Held his ground well, got a decent push. He's probably not going to be a huge play-maker, but he can anchor the middle.
JPP looked like he was getting back into form. He wasn't the 2011 model, but he was active and getting close. We really need another playmaker up front on D though.
I think if we had Schwartz the OL might've been decent. Jerry got his ass handed to him on a regular basis.
I'm not Matt Stafford's biggest fan, but I thought he was really good tonight. Good decision-making, accurate passes, made things happen with his feet. Great game from him.
Also Jernigan and Randle are simply not starting caliber.
I expect the offense to get better. I'm not giving up on Eli. Ever.
But this defense has me very worried. I just don't think Fewell is a legitimate defensive coordinator.
As someone who isn't white and is being most critical of Reese of all the involved parties, does this mean I'm a self hater? Maybe an Uncle Tom?
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absolutely pathetic performance?
Yeah. Williams and DRC were bad also.
Yes, Williams was awful as well
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Bigots? What an insightful comment.
Reese should lose his job, but won't. This roster has taken a nosedive on his watch, particularly in the trenches, where it all begins. I would advise a media blackout for Giants fans.
Not revisiting the draft issue - but could Lewan have played worse than Beatty tonight.
Mr. Mara - this is why it took so long to figure out if Jernigan could play.
run defense was okay until they got tired
totally disgusted with the secondary - ps - Will Hill thanks for lighting up jackass we needed you.
It's a talent issue and blame goes to the entire front office whether their complexion is white, black, or green with purple polka dots. Reese is in charge of the front office so whenever the talent level looks like it did in the 1970s, he's going to get the blame.
I don't think we can even judge TC or any head coach fairly when you have only one or two players who you can say are elite or very good at their positions
The OL we knew would take some time to gel and it showed tonight. Beatty sucked and the interior was beat consistently. Pugh didn't look good. We played a solid DL tonight and could not take advantage of their secondary.
Is WR Reuben Randle ever going to get his ass out of his head? Honestly, terrible again.
At the end of the day, Eli had a tough day trying to make things happen. It is clear players are not on the same page as he is and my guess is Eli is right and the players are not. We'll shore up some of this stuff this week during practice but no way we fix everything in a week.
A post that is actually worse than the game we just saw.
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when there is plenty of blame to go around.
It's a talent issue and blame goes to the entire front office whether their complexion is white, black, or green with purple polka dots. Reese is in charge of the front office so whenever the talent level looks like it did in the 1970s, he's going to get the blame.
I don't think we can even judge TC or any head coach fairly when you have only one or two players who you can say are elite or very good at their positions
You are making a very large assumption that they do not have a hand in the selection. I would have a hard time believing that they do not. So they are also accountable.
Toyota for Mariota?
Hopefully, Eric will ban you on the ground of disgusting behavior. This the first time I've ever suggested that anyone be banned but in your case it's completely justified.
There's no room on BBI for anyone like you.
This is a young mans game now. Get out before your reputation is tarnished.
I thought Weston Richburg was fantastic. He didn't lose on many plays and he won more than his share. I'd like to hear others thoughts on this, especially on a re-watch, but he looked great to me.
I thought Hankins was really solid. Held his ground well, got a decent push. He's probably not going to be a huge play-maker, but he can anchor the middle.
JPP looked like he was getting back into form. He wasn't the 2011 model, but he was active and getting close. We really need another playmaker up front on D though.
I think if we had Schwartz the OL might've been decent. Jerry got his ass handed to him on a regular basis.
I'm not Matt Stafford's biggest fan, but I thought he was really good tonight. Good decision-making, accurate passes, made things happen with his feet. Great game from him.
Nice post. I noticed Hankins a lot, too.
Not only are 3/5ths of the OL new, the line as presently assembled got very little opportunity to practice together in the preseason. They don't have any trust for each other yet. I doubt there's potential for a more than league-average line, but they will get better. (They also won't be up against competition this good for a few months, if at all.)
This is probably the stupidest fucking post I have ever seen on BBI. And that is truly saying something.
He should have walked away . Thought he was crazy then not to go out on top, and it looks way crazier now.
I don't think we can even judge him. Cruz is a #2 receiver and nobody else in the receiving corps is of NFL caliber
Yup...Someone just grilled him on the 1st Eli pick (Donnell not looking)..TC says Eli took blame.
Agree. Never liked his play. He gets burned a lot. I thought his interceptions were just pure freakin lucky.
Bad OL, no WR threats except Cruz, no TE, and a skittish, aging, utterly immobile QB. Take out Cruz, and gang up to stop the run, and you can beat the Giants. And that's what teams will do. Nobody cares if JJ and Donnell catch a few passes, even for first downs. This team also has no deep threat, and even if it did, there would be no time to get the ball downfield behind this OL and with Eli being so immobile.
D just got worn out.
Got to blame Reese. It's always a bad sign when you have to bring in a lot of players in FA as we did this past offseason. It's an indication that your GM has fucked up a lot of drafts. Which he did.
Just like you can't criticize Obama or else you're a racist right?
Its just painful to see as we have grown used to to expecting more and more comebacks.
Agree on that also. I lost a lot of respect when he did not give Brandon Jacobs' number back. What an asshole.
Thinking it may be finally take a toll on him. Not his fault, but may finally see that this team may not turn around to where it wants to be (3-5 years down the line) and realizing he'll likely not be around to see it.
I wish I were as optimistic but I just don't see the talent. Who is the #1 receiver? Cruz needs a #1 to draw coverage from him (think about how much coverage Demaryius draws from Welker in Denver). Jennings is JAG. Andre Williams could be very good but he'll need the carries to prove it. The left side of the OL was getting overwhelmed, but Richburg looks promising. Pugh didn't play like a 1st round pick tonight either
I think the collective sentiment is perfectly rational and reasonable. The outlook was never brilliant.
Its been a shit product for years now. No ones shocked. No ones going into histrionics. Facts are facts. Its a bad team that will have a bad record. If you dont think so, you dont watch oother games around the league.
What a fucking joke.
Eli running for his life on every play, meanwhile Stafford can sit back and smoke a fucking cigarette and sip some G*d*mn wine while scanning through each and every receiver option on every pass play.
No blocking and no pass rush equals another long fucking season.
YAY.
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when there is plenty of blame to go around.
I guess I'm a bigot because I think the last couple drafts have not a single impact player. David Wilson, Reuben Randle, Justin Pugh, Richburg, Odell Beckham, the list goes on and on.
Why would anyone be a bigot if they blamed Reese? He has not drafted well and is in charge?
THANK YOU.
This hierarchy lost a lot of football minds in that draft voting room and they have wayyyyy to many MARA's casting a vote.
The rest of the OLine problem is really more about playing together than it is getting beat consistently due to a lack of talent.
The problem is not the talent as much as it is - they don't know the offense.
Worst of all I don't see a QB who even comes close to delivering his current value in regards to the contract. I don't blame him entirely, but he's not able to "will" this team anymore to wins.
He needs a lot of help and his cap busting contract is a big reason why they aren't any good.
There are Jags fans?
some of it is a talent issue - Beatty looks like a reserve OL, not the guy manning the most important spot on the line.
Losing Wilson and Beckham not playing was a one two punch. Wilson had the speed to scare defenses and Beckham can be a playmaker.
The same?
Can't believe the possibility the Eagles have of winning the division with Chip Kelly as HC and Nick Foles as QB.
Disgusting.
Donnell
Richburg
Jennings
JPP
DRC
Negatives:
Everything else.
Good times.
Unlike the defense, the mistakes on offense are as much physical as they're mental. Mental mistakes can be corrected over time. Lack of size, strength, and speed can only be corrected with new players.
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For experienced football fans to watch a game and recognize when it's a bad game and not a bad team after one game? You think no one will make play all year? Stop watching and enjoy the mma season.
I wish I were as optimistic but I just don't see the talent. Who is the #1 receiver? Cruz needs a #1 to draw coverage from him (think about how much coverage Demaryius draws from Welker in Denver). Jennings is JAG. Andre Williams could be very good but he'll need the carries to prove it. The left side of the OL was getting overwhelmed, but Richburg looks promising. Pugh didn't play like a 1st round pick tonight either
I don't think it requires a ton of optimism. I think it's just silly to think the team will look the same for 17 weeks. And I think it's silly to define a team's capability after one game on the road on opening night. There is no chance the team looks like this every game. Of all the things that didn't go right this game, the main thing I don't get is how you allow the one player on their team to dominate you when you know they will do everything in their power to give him chances to dominate. The loose zones on third and longs. The missed coverages. Who exactly did you think the ball was going to if it wasn't going to the best receiver in the game? If it looks like that all year, then yes cleaning house makes sense. But it's one game. In their house. On opening night. With a new group of players and a new oc. Main things to focus on are whether the line will learn to protect the best player on the team and whether the defense will ever learn how to stop third and long. It's shocking how poor this team is on third and long. Make one damn stop and the game changes.
Donnell
Richburg
Jennings
JPP
DRC
Negatives:
Everything else.
Good times.
DRC?! Do you mean Prince? DRC sucked. Prince had a nice game
On the second pick you don't throw a floater. If he throws it to the sideline Cruz has a chance.
Hated seeing Eli looking at the lineman instead of looking for the open man - can't really blame him but that is the problem with the offense right now.
Manning on first INT: Larry was doing the right thingbad decision by me.
Manning on first INT: Larry was doing the right thingbad decision by me.
Who knows what the truth is. Eli is such a stand-up guy he may be taking the heat.
but his pass protection was shaky and he had too many miscues
somebody make a play
Yup. After 1 game, we know just how his entire season will go.
Question, were you conceived in Chernobyl, when the incident was happening?
Because there's gonna be a whole lot of diddly poo in Metlife.
Hey moron, his skin color doesn't absolve him from responsibility for his job performance.
Grow the fuck up.
He has been known to take the blame even when it is not his fault.
Eli's biggest fault (and you can't really blame him) is he is looking at the lineman instead of the receivers
Yes, this team lost in '07 and '11 in Week 1 but did not look nearly this bad. Our offense is broken.
then as much as I've enjoyed their tenure you can't keep amy if the 3 in Tom Coughlin, Jerry Reese and sadly Eli Manning.
2 bad ints a team still unsure what the fk they are doing and a slew of players that haven't worked out as caliber picks.
just being real. Gotta go. Get your top 5 pick and bring in the new blood... MariottA or Winston and a new college coach. Hope we can get better talent evaluators too, cuz damn.
Here we go again.
Most of the game just looked like 2013 redux. We have a patch work offensive line and still run into 7 and occasionally 8 man fronts. We are still consistently setting eli up in third and long. Slow developing routes, receivers who have no idea what they are supposed to be doing, and vintage eli bad decisions and interceptions that make no physical sense but seem to happen to him 4-5 times a season.
On defense we spend a bunch of money in our secondary yet on almost every thirst and long we are still playing zone. A coverage that we have run poorly throughout Coughlin's tenure but Fewell should know better himself by this point.
Did anyone see anything that really looked new or improved out of this team until our possession at the end of the 3rd quarter going into the 4th?
On a positive note we looked really good in man coverage in general, and prince looked like a boss. Also The tight end position looks like it is going to be manageable (or at least not the reason we go 5-11) and the front seven looked really solid against the run.
Here's hoping we can make some adjustments to or scheme and find a pass rush. Also benching Randle couldn't hurt. Anyways it was a fun first post look forward to all the love for years to come ;)
Also, the rules changes make make the cover 2 completely ineffective; CBs can't make any contact at all, and safeties will get a penalty if they blast a receiver to knock the ball loose.
It's a dead defense. It's what, 15 years old now? Back in 1999 it was new and fresh, and guys like John Lynch could thump WRs running deep. Now, every team knows how to exploit it. Gruden was right to call out Fewell.
At this point, how does Flaherty still have a job? His shit has gone downhill since 2010.
Eli Manning is going to QB this team until he can't anymore. Because the people in charge recognize that when he has a team that plays at his level, he is every bit as good as most of the best QB's in the league. No one has more balls. No one stays on the field more when they are banged up. No one can argue he can't make the throws. No one can argue he doesn't give a crap or try harder than most players on this team or any team.
So here's the deal for many of you....
Eli is the QB. Get used to it. Many of us if not most of us are freakin thrilled about that. When I watch these games, I literally see him as last in line when it comes to whom to blame. So should you. If he had time to pass, and guys who could get open and make plays, he would dominate. If you don't agree, I wish you could see things differently and understand how lucky we are to have this guy as the QB. He's going to be the QB for a while. Get used to it and focus on the players who can't match his testicle level or effort or ability.
So now we can focus on the real problems. Namely, it takes blocking and a run game and receivers who will put it on the line to make plays in order to win. When that stuff works itself out, no one will whine about the QB.
This is week one. It will get better.
Too many changes all at once. New players with not enough playing time together to know how to play well as a team. New OC, system & (complicated?) playbook, hand signals not working, changing Elis stance, etc...
Should be playing man to man, no cover 2.
Detroit has quickly become a good team after MANY years of being a terrible team. Thats the way the current NFL works. It allows terrible teams to become good teams over time. I and many others on this forum have watched the Giants go through a few of these cycles.
Eli Manning is going to QB this team until he can't anymore. Because the people in charge recognize that when he has a team that plays at his level, he is every bit as good as most of the best QB's in the league. No one has more balls. No one stays on the field more when they are banged up. No one can argue he can't make the throws. No one can argue he doesn't give a crap or try harder than most players on this team or any team.
So here's the deal for many of you....
Eli is the QB. Get used to it. Many of us if not most of us are freakin thrilled about that. When I watch these games, I literally see him as last in line when it comes to whom to blame. So should you. If he had time to pass, and guys who could get open and make plays, he would dominate. If you don't agree, I wish you could see things differently and understand how lucky we are to have this guy as the QB. He's going to be the QB for a while. Get used to it and focus on the players who can't match his testicle level or effort or ability.
So now we can focus on the real problems. Namely, it takes blocking and a run game and receivers who will put it on the line to make plays in order to win. When that stuff works itself out, no one will whine about the QB.
This is week one. It will get better.
Good post. He still makes some bonehead decisions, but for the most part I agree with you.
Eli Manning is going to QB this team until he can't anymore. Because the people in charge recognize that when he has a team that plays at his level, he is every bit as good as most of the best QB's in the league. No one has more balls. No one stays on the field more when they are banged up. No one can argue he can't make the throws. No one can argue he doesn't give a crap or try harder than most players on this team or any team.
So here's the deal for many of you....
Eli is the QB. Get used to it. Many of us if not most of us are freakin thrilled about that. When I watch these games, I literally see him as last in line when it comes to whom to blame. So should you. If he had time to pass, and guys who could get open and make plays, he would dominate. If you don't agree, I wish you could see things differently and understand how lucky we are to have this guy as the QB. He's going to be the QB for a while. Get used to it and focus on the players who can't match his testicle level or effort or ability.
So now we can focus on the real problems. Namely, it takes blocking and a run game and receivers who will put it on the line to make plays in order to win. When that stuff works itself out, no one will whine about the QB.
This is week one. It will get better.
Seth, yes... Eli Manning has done very good things for this team. That in no way absolves him from a lot of poor play that he has been personally responsible for leading all the way back to late 2012. Is he solely to blame? Of course not! He's just been part of the problem the way all the other players have been.
But the fact that you see him last in line in terms of blame says everything about your bias. On both INTs he threw last night, he was first in line for the blame.
I was think in the last few days, and especially after yeasterdays game that Eli manning my not end his career in NY, that he may be let go, and then go on the road amnd spend 4-5 years spmewhere else, and I realized even if he did he'd still have a chance at another SB if he got on a team with a good OL and some receivers with a decent RB. he may as well stay here and do it here. Frankly i could see him staying here and struggling, throwing INTs and having a couple of seasons of abysmal stats until he gets proper support and winning another SB. One thinkkg he's proved is that he has it, he knows how. It's not like his play was worth a shit the years he won the SBs until it was playoff time anyway.May as well ride him till he breaks, we aren't gonna do better.He'll still be able to pull it out of his ass if he gets the supporting cast. it's also clear TC isn't the issue. The Giants main problem is their personell, and perhaps the Hubris of Jerry Reese.Seeing what he has given this coach to work with AGAIN, after last year,I I no longer have confidence in him.
everyone deserves blame. That includes the qb. Im sick of the excuses for him too. You literally cant play worse than his last year plus, I dont care who was back there. Last years offense was worse relative to the league average than any offense led by brown, kannell or graham, and now we're on track to be just as bad. There is not a soul who doesnt have ownership of this and it wont get better anytime soon
everyone deserves blame. That includes the qb. Im sick of the excuses for him too. You literally cant play worse than his last year plus, I dont care who was back there. Last years offense was worse relative to the league average than any offense led by brown, kannell or graham, and now we're on track to be just as bad. There is not a soul who doesnt have ownership of this and it wont get better anytime soon
If Matthew Stafford was given the choice of choosing any playres from our offense to be part of the Lions, he would laugh his ass off.
There is not a single talented player on offense.
and lets keep the supporting cast arguments in mind when we largely ignore them when it comes to ring counting vs other qbs. Lets also bury the notion that eli carried a garbage cast in 2011, because as we can clearly see now, without adequate support eli manning is not above looking like blaine gabbert. At minimum hes not elevating shit like someone of his pay grade should
and im comforted by the fact that eli holds himself to a higher standard than his fans do. Because I sure as fuck know he doesnt think all his issues are on outside factors
and lets keep the supporting cast arguments in mind when we largely ignore them when it comes to ring counting vs other qbs. Lets also bury the notion that eli carried a garbage cast in 2011, because as we can clearly see now, without adequate support eli manning is not above looking like blaine gabbert. At minimum hes not elevating shit like someone of his pay grade should
and im comforted by the fact that eli holds himself to a higher standard than his fans do. Because I sure as fuck know he doesnt think all his issues are on outside factors
I think Eli+WR's carried that team. The line sucked. We had elite receivers, but Eli had an MVP-like season that year.
If so, it was one helluva run and to get 2 rings out of it is tremendous and all one could ask for, but the thought of having to watch Dave Brown-like teams again is sickening.
Don't want to get too ahead of myself. Definitely not there yet. Also, a couple positives include that Hankins looks like a true anchor and someone you can build around.
and lets keep the supporting cast arguments in mind when we largely ignore them when it comes to ring counting vs other qbs. Lets also bury the notion that eli carried a garbage cast in 2011, because as we can clearly see now, without adequate support eli manning is not above looking like blaine gabbert. At minimum hes not elevating shit like someone of his pay grade should
and im comforted by the fact that eli holds himself to a higher standard than his fans do. Because I sure as fuck know he doesnt think all his issues are on outside factors
Joe, there isnt a single QB in the league that would succeed on this team. Is Eli done? Probably. But if you think you can roll a Rodgers, Brees, or Peyton on this team and they make us a playoff team? You're kidding yourself.
The OL maybe worse than the 2003 line led by Jeff Roehl and Ian Allen. Our WRs are pathetic. They arent big, they arent fast, and all 3 hav suspect hands. You watch a lot of football... can our WRs make the catch Megatron made in the end zone? Or how about the one Kelvin Benjamin made for Panthers. Lets not even get started on YAC. 7 catches for 50 yards and at least 4 drops, probably more. I dont care who is QBing, we didnt have WRs running open all game wanting the ball.
We have no talent on this team. Its not absolving the blame from Eli, its just showing the facts.
and for the record im not blaming eli exclusively. Im just refusing to completely absolve him like many others are
and for the record im not blaming eli exclusively. Im just refusing to completely absolve him like many others are
That's fair. And I'm with you on your last point.
HE missed some throws early. But if you came away last night thinking Eli was the main problem, Ill just disagree with you and move on. I have been saying it for a year now.... there is no talent at WR/OL.
Well of course I think they would be better too. I may have overstated it, but lets just say we aint winning a SB with them.
This is an insane knee-jerk reaction to ONE game. I knew I should have avoided this thread, but like a motorist driving past a wreck, I just couldn't pass up the opportunity to check out the carnage.
Everyone needs to take a deep breath and chill the fuck out. Its one game with a totally new line and a totally new offense.
During the off-season, I was hopeful the Giants would place a high emphasis on rebuilding their putrid offensive line, which at first glance, based on the free agent acquisitions and drafting of C/G Weston Richburg, looked promising. Last year, with the Giants O-line being decimated with injuries and starters under-performing, you could see what Reese was attempting to do. He was building offensive line depth with 27-under players, ALL with plenty of NFL experience on their resumes, then added Richburg in the 2nd round. On paper, these off-season moves made perfect sense, especially when considering both Diehl and Snee retired, Beatty was recovering from a broken leg, C David Baas was released, and our backup lineman including Eric Herman, James Brewer, and Brandon Mosely had only 9 combined career starts. To say that our Offensive line needed to be completely overhauled was an understatement with Justin Pugh being the lone bright spot for the future.
Everyone still with me?
So, Reese brings in the following free agent linemen (See Below). Again, on paper, I thought the moves would at least temporarily stabilize our putrid line for the 2014 season and give Eli some more time in the pocket to find receivers.
G John Jerry - 57 GP, 45 starts
C J.D. Walton - 36 GP, 36 starts
G/T Geoff Schwartz - 61 GP, 26 starts
T Charles Brown - 37 GP, 22 starts
Right now, as I sit here and type this after watching last night's game, I don't think anyone has answers, nor do the Giants.
You can blame Reese, Eli, position coaches, and anyone else if it makes you feel better. But, truth be told, Eli is a statue in the pocket and plays his worst games when under constant pressure. Last night was no different. They played terrible up front!! Zero running lanes for the ground game (53 yards rushing) and receivers never seemed to have the opportunity of finishing their routes.
Problem is, the off-season and draft are completed. So, we are stuck with this current group of offensive lineman.
5-6 wins would be a miracle for this season if the O-Line plays as poorly as they did last night the rest of the way...
Eli's confidence seems shot! And, who can blame him. He has no time to throw the ball, never the opportunity to settle down and get in sync, and the ground attack can't get anything going to keep defenses honest.
It could be a LONG ass season this year, so settle in for the ride!
We are pretty far off right now. But you could turn it around very quickly in this league. Have a couple offseasons like 04 and 05, and this too shall pass
We are pretty far off right now. But you could turn it around very quickly in this league. Have a couple offseasons like 04 and 05, and this too shall pass
Someone suggested we need play-makers- no, we need a Coaching staff that knows how to adapt a play scheme to the players, not the other way around. This is a TC built team trying to graft on a foreign scheme. It doesn't work.
I have not witnessed Eli getting hit so many times and so hard since his first year when they inserted him in place of Kurt Warner. We are watching the complete ruination of a SB quarterback- doesn't matter of how much he has bought into the system or how hard he tries. Eli is a drop back, pocket QB, who no longer has a pocket or time to drop back and find his receivers who are now hanging around just over the line of scrimmage.
Rh, why bother- t5hat was a disgraceful performance. BTW, can someone tell Cruz that the pre-season is over. Now that I have gotten that off my chest, I can move on to watching Tampa and Jax get carved up every week- it's far less painful because I don't care,.
C J.D. Walton - 36 GP, 36 starts
G/T Geoff Schwartz - 61 GP, 26 starts
T Charles Brown - 37 GP, 22 starts
They thought they had addressed the issue.none of those guys are performing well now, if at all, and none seem to be hidden diamonds in the rough so much as cast of unpolishable turds that we though we could polish.They thought they had answers and like you say, i don't think anyone does.
You can try and blame it on reese saying he didn't do his due dilligence, that he got lousy players he overpaid for, or the reality may be they really were the best available, they simply weren't much good though.
I said in another thread I thought they are in year 2 of a 3 year rebuild, but the way things have gone for the pisces added last year (with the exception of Jenkins and patterson and the drafting of Hankins, as last years offseason focus was on rebuilding the defensive line)the new parts simply don't seem to be working.
It's like working all day busting your ass to change a boiler, and when you fire the new one up you discover the cast Iron ics cracked, and you have to pull it, return it, buy another one and start it all over again.
Between bad draft picks in mid rounds, injuries to early round picks, FA dus who either don't perform or get injured, our top round draft picjks not working out and someof our better players pricing themselves to high for us to keep Like bennett and Joseph, we just aren't having any luck putting together a roster and it just seems more and more like a patchwork cobbled together out of desperation than a strong roster tailored to fit our schemes and philosophy. Ultimately it's on reese but in fairness the guy has had little luck, compounding the few bad choices he's made look much worse.
Someone suggested we need play-makers- no, we need a Coaching staff that knows how to adapt a play scheme to the players, not the other way around. This is a TC built team trying to graft on a foreign scheme. It doesn't work.
I have not witnessed Eli getting hit so many times and so hard since his first year when they inserted him in place of Kurt Warner. We are watching the complete ruination of a SB quarterback- doesn't matter of how much he has bought into the system or how hard he tries. Eli is a drop back, pocket QB, who no longer has a pocket or time to drop back and find his receivers who are now hanging around just over the line of scrimmage.
Rh, why bother- t5hat was a disgraceful performance. BTW, can someone tell Cruz that the pre-season is over. Now that I have gotten that off my chest, I can move on to watching Tampa and Jax get carved up every week- it's far less painful because I don't care,.
"But a deal between the NFL and the union on a new drug policy could come as soon as this week. As part of that deal, players recently suspended for violations (that would no longer warrant suspensions) are expected to get their bans retroactively reduced or repealed."
We are pretty far off right now. But you could turn it around very quickly in this league. Have a couple offseasons like 04 and 05, and this too shall pass
That's ultimately how I feel. I mean sure, I wish the Giants could manage to treat me to the sort of entertaining performance that teams like the Broncos or the Seahawks treat their fans to, but those special Super Bowl runs do linger. And I've always been the sort who likes observing the process of building something from nothing -- the "origin story" if you will.
We're in for an origin story pretty soon, and it will be interesting to see it unfold.
I loved Gilbride for what he did here, but if his offense is playing last night, the Giants don't score a point. They lose 42-0.
the playcalling was a little odd down in the RZ with the 3 straight fades but they did score the TD there. I can't kill the playcalling...but WFAN sure as fuck can. They have all morning.
The playcalling was good enough to score two TDs and last year the playcalling couldn't move the ball out of a paper bag. The offense still sucks but now all I see is people saying the Giants were nuts to fire KG for a whole new system...gimme a break.