and this is the problem with society... if she was my daughter, i would have kicked her ass myself..
the reason why he is fired and basically banned from the league isnt for what he did, its because they both lied to cover up what he did. According to the NFL, they didnt see this and in the new tape, he hit her without her provoking it. She is crazy and needs to be slapped again by her parents.
Given who the NFL allows to play in their League, I think this indefinite suspension and releasing is nothing more than a PR show.
If he committed a crime, there are courts for that. If, by being on video, he damaged the Ravens brand, there are fines for that.
Other than that, this all seems more than a bit over the top.
100%. This is battered wife syndrome.
Hard to blame the media when people eat this stuff up. Who do you think is at fault for those ratings? If you're waiting for the media to have a conscience, please don't hold your breath.
is this a joke?
and i will retract me beating her sense because as someone else said, she probably had that in her life and clings to that. That is true but she married the guy who publicly kicked her ass and left her like a piece of meat on the floor. It was clear as day but it appears no one tried to help her because she still married the guy
Yes.
Sports Cheat Sheet - ( New Window )
This isn't a real question, is it?
Victims repress, surpress, justify, excuse, etc. some of the most heinous acts imaginable.
This is a variation on a child who is convicted of murdering his parents say to the judge, have mercy on me because I'm an orphan, that is, the criminal claims victim status.
Some horrific statements in here. Show some fucking empathy.
Lol
i think it would have been best if she didnt say anything and just lived her "happy" life
Quote:
The source said that Rice admitted to the Ravens from the start that he was guilty of striking Janay and, for the most part, accurately described what they eventually saw on the videotape.
we all kind of figured out what happened but according to the NFL and the Ravens, they didnt see the tape. They are obviously making the judgement call now to try to cover up their public image but they are going with what is happening now...
of course too little too late
Quote:
This is a quote from the espn article linked to her statement :
Quote:
The source said that Rice admitted to the Ravens from the start that he was guilty of striking Janay and, for the most part, accurately described what they eventually saw on the videotape.
we all kind of figured out what happened but according to the NFL and the Ravens, they didnt see the tape. They are obviously making the judgement call now to try to cover up their public image but they are going with what is happening now...
of course too little too late
I'm referring to this statement in your OP
How did they both lie to cover up what he did ??
I think a part of this is that she has now seen wall to wall coverage of what is a part of her life too and is saying "Enough!!".
So? Does this make her a bad person? An Army wife who doesn't want to go forward in a DV prosecution because her husband will get the boot, is she a bad person? How many zeroes on the paycheck makes someone a moneygrubber?
And aside from the money, the worst day of her life is being broadcast and rebroadcast, her conduct scrutinized and criticized, she has become a punchline.
Football isnt a life its a short term career Ray Rice blew his chance at this short term career its not the fault of the nfl or the media or the fans.
Move on work on making yourself better and find a new career path.
Quote:
In comment 11851092 BigBluDawg said:
Quote:
This is a quote from the espn article linked to her statement :
Quote:
The source said that Rice admitted to the Ravens from the start that he was guilty of striking Janay and, for the most part, accurately described what they eventually saw on the videotape.
we all kind of figured out what happened but according to the NFL and the Ravens, they didnt see the tape. They are obviously making the judgement call now to try to cover up their public image but they are going with what is happening now...
of course too little too late
I'm referring to this statement in your OP
Quote:
the reason why he is fired and basically banned from the league isnt for what he did, its because they both lied to cover up what he did.
How did they both lie to cover up what he did ??
you left out the part of "according to the NFL," they didnt see this tape. This is what they are standing by. I mean stevie wonder can see what happened here. They should have done this a long time ago. The problem was when both of the met with Roger Godell, he interviewed both of them at the same time. Bad decision. But im only going by what they said. We all know the NFL fucked this up a long time ago because it was pretty clear what happened here
That being said, if it was a one time, completely out of character behavior, as disgusting as it is, the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
I'm not condoning anything, but lifetime ban for this is more about advertising $$ and image than anything else.
You've pretty much come across as a jackass this entire thread.
p.s.-- Respect for anyone who gets the reference without googling it!
Quote:
their love will find a way to a better life.. Their love will create a better life
You've pretty much come across as a jackass this entire thread.
not trying to be. but she must be in love right. Her marrying him after publicly beating her and it all over the news and then marrying him, it has to be love. Cant be about the money. She has a problem too.
I feel bad for her because i have seen this before and she appears to not have sensible people around her
i had an issue with the light suspension of rice, but i think the nfl/ravens have gone overboard.
i had an issue with the light suspension of rice, but i think the nfl/ravens have gone overboard.
Les, question for you... do you think they have gone overboard because they should have done this a long time ago or because you feel the indefinte suspension is too much?
im curious because im reading alot of that now
Quote:
In comment 11851182 GMAN4LIFE said:
Quote:
their love will find a way to a better life.. Their love will create a better life
You've pretty much come across as a jackass this entire thread.
not trying to be. but she must be in love right. Her marrying him after publicly beating her and it all over the news and then marrying him, it has to be love. Cant be about the money. She has a problem too.
I feel bad for her because i have seen this before and she appears to not have sensible people around her
Sure seems like you're trying to be now...
Quote:
.
So? Does this make her a bad person? An Army wife who doesn't want to go forward in a DV prosecution because her husband will get the boot, is she a bad person? How many zeroes on the paycheck makes someone a moneygrubber?
And aside from the money, the worst day of her life is being broadcast and rebroadcast, her conduct scrutinized and criticized, she has become a punchline.
I agree completely. Don't blame her a bit for her feelings.
Still, the point about the why we should be outraged if the victim is not caring earlier was incorrect IMO. The awareness this brought...at least shining a light on a poorly hidden problem, the elimination of players from the game and the potential deterrence are all positives that came form this incident. So it goes beyond this couple.
This appears to have been an isolated incident. Maybe, jusy maybe, she legit wants to move on with her life?
hahaha
Ahh...so only getting knocked unconscious is byegones?
Why would it make her a complete dipshit? If 2 people love each other and one makes a mistake, who are we to say what the other should do? You don't even know these people. It is so easy to sit behind a keyboard and tell everyone else how to live and act as if you are without sin.
Quote:
In comment 11851092 BigBluDawg said:
Quote:
This is a quote from the espn article linked to her statement :
Quote:
The source said that Rice admitted to the Ravens from the start that he was guilty of striking Janay and, for the most part, accurately described what they eventually saw on the videotape.
we all kind of figured out what happened but according to the NFL and the Ravens, they didnt see the tape. They are obviously making the judgement call now to try to cover up their public image but they are going with what is happening now...
of course too little too late
I'm referring to this statement in your OP
Quote:
the reason why he is fired and basically banned from the league isnt for what he did, its because they both lied to cover up what he did.
How did they both lie to cover up what he did ??
It was implied by both that she was the aggressor.
What IMO was left off was the fact he spit on her as she walked by him to the elevator which caused her lazy back hand. He then corners her in the elevator and spits in her face again which causes her to take a step towards him in anger and he clocks her twice
She may have battered woman syndrome or she may just want to move on with her life (with Ray). Who the fuck knows. Victims (and perpertrators) of domestic violence can sometimes overcome that Hell. She's might not be an idiot or suffering from a syndrome. She might be.. she might not be.
That video doesn't show a mistake.
She may have battered woman syndrome or she may just want to move on with her life (with Ray). Who the fuck knows. Victims (and perpertrators) of domestic violence can sometimes overcome that Hell. She's might not be an idiot or suffering from a syndrome. She might be.. she might not be.
Great point Mike. I am aware that my opinion will subject me to those type of accusations and also know that many share my opinion but are afraid to voice it for that very reason. Well said.
She bites his fat neck it lights up his nose
While his wife attends an orchid show
She squealed for a month to get him to go
She's 13 and knows how to be nasty
Taxing my memory here, the Fugs or Cap't Berfheart w/o Zappa?
She may have battered woman syndrome or she may just want to move on with her life (with Ray). Who the fuck knows. Victims (and perpertrators) of domestic violence can sometimes overcome that Hell. She's might not be an idiot or suffering from a syndrome. She might be.. she might not be.
i agree..you are right and im wrong
That video doesn't show a mistake.
I respectfully disagree. If 1 bad act in life makes 1 a bad person then we would all be bad. If there is evidence that this was not an aberration, then I would agree he is bad. In this instance, both people appeared drunk and Rice struck her as she was coming at him. She hit her head on the bar which knocked her out. It was a horrible incident but the conclusions that you draw are simplistic but again i am certain judging others makes you feel better about yourself
Quote:
but it didn't change my opinion on rice. i didn't need to see the video to know what he did was criminal based on the written reports. i'm not sure if she has battered wife syndrome or she is of sound mind and just willing to forgive ray for this and confident he gets the help he needs to control his anger.
i had an issue with the light suspension of rice, but i think the nfl/ravens have gone overboard.
Les, question for you... do you think they have gone overboard because they should have done this a long time ago or because you feel the indefinte suspension is too much?
im curious because im reading alot of that now
the indefinite suspension was way too much. i realize that the visual aspect was terrible, but in my mind it didn't really change rice's culpability or add anything materially new based on the written description of the events which has been known for months. it was just new evidence to support agreed upon facts. the nfl/ravens probably feared a backlash/protests/lost ticket sales similar to the donald sterling audio reaction, only from women's rights groups instead of NAACP/race-focused rights groups. it has nothing to do with a fair punishment given the facts.
Quote:
that if you are capable of hitting a woman like that, that you are not a good person who made a mistake, you are a bad person.
That video doesn't show a mistake.
I respectfully disagree. If 1 bad act in life makes 1 a bad person then we would all be bad. If there is evidence that this was not an aberration, then I would agree he is bad. In this instance, both people appeared drunk and Rice struck her as she was coming at him. She hit her head on the bar which knocked her out. It was a horrible incident but the conclusions that you draw are simplistic but again i am certain judging others makes you feel better about yourself
You should realize that your chosen profession colors your opinions, opinions that are at odds with the majority of the population.
That video doesn't show a mistake.
Very shortsighted, IMO. There are convicted murderers who bounce back from their horrible ways and contribute positively to society. Ray Rice can't? He's a bad person for life? (which might not be what you meant, but it's certainly what you implied when you made the distinction between a mistake and an over-arching comment on his character).
You don't know Rice personally or his wife. You saw a snapshot of what was (likely/hopefully) the worst moment of his life. He deserves to be punished, and I have no issue at all with him being made the face of domestic violence. What he did was reprehensible. What I know is, apparently, this woman is still in love with him and is trying to move on with her life... with him.
It would probably be in her best interest to seek serious counseling, perhaps with Ray, to figure out whether or not she is thinking clearly or whether or not she really is in a fear-driven defense of her attacker.
And as I said in my previous post, it's difficult to comment on this thread with any sympathy for either party. I have no sympathy for Rice, but I do think there is hope for him and certainly hope for his marriage. Someone who knows them better and is qualified can make that judgment far better than me... or you.
Your point is illogical. So you are saying now we can predict that he will kill her? Really? And also to say that I or anyone else would gloss over anyone's death is just mere stupidity.
again, not condoning rice's actions, but especially as his wife is by his side, he's in a counselling program and he has a clean record, he deserves fair treatment here.
again, not condoning rice's actions, but especially as his wife is by his side, he's in a counselling program and he has a clean record, he deserves fair treatment here.
I agree with you 100%, but the players association is in a REALLY tough spot here... and it's not like they're the most savvy organization to begin with. This story blew up 10 fold yesterday. ISIS is on the move and this was the top story on all major news networks. It's bigger than football at this point and I don't know if they have the balls to sack up and defend the offender in this case. Rice is in trouble.
Can't argue with any of that. He's going to pay for this. Crazy to think 30 hours ago he was preparing for week 3.
Quote:
In comment 11851383 Pork and Beans said:
Quote:
that if you are capable of hitting a woman like that, that you are not a good person who made a mistake, you are a bad person.
That video doesn't show a mistake.
I respectfully disagree. If 1 bad act in life makes 1 a bad person then we would all be bad. If there is evidence that this was not an aberration, then I would agree he is bad. In this instance, both people appeared drunk and Rice struck her as she was coming at him. She hit her head on the bar which knocked her out. It was a horrible incident but the conclusions that you draw are simplistic but again i am certain judging others makes you feel better about yourself
You should realize that your chosen profession colors your opinions, opinions that are at odds with the majority of the population.
My chosen profession has nothing to do with my opinions. My opinions have been formed by my experience with couples in these situations. I have also been the victim of domestic violence and stayed with my wife and told the district attorney that I wanted the charges dropped and they were. I am certainly not afraid of my wife. I loved her and wanted to move on without the situation being made worse. We were arguing and she went to kiss me and instead bit my upper lip where it was hanging off and I was bleeding profusely. I needed 10 stitches and still have a scar. If that was caught on videotape it would be horrible but there was no need for her to go to prison. She made a mistake in the heat of the moment and I forgave her. Does that make me stupid or a horrible person?
Dude, providing he's telling the truth, even in relatively anonymous forum, it's difficult to share things of that nature. Calling a victim of domestic abuse stupid... is that the work of a "good person?"
when white knight syndrome goes bad.
Quote:
In comment 11851412 Rangersin7 said:
Quote:
In comment 11851383 Pork and Beans said:
Quote:
that if you are capable of hitting a woman like that, that you are not a good person who made a mistake, you are a bad person.
That video doesn't show a mistake.
I respectfully disagree. If 1 bad act in life makes 1 a bad person then we would all be bad. If there is evidence that this was not an aberration, then I would agree he is bad. In this instance, both people appeared drunk and Rice struck her as she was coming at him. She hit her head on the bar which knocked her out. It was a horrible incident but the conclusions that you draw are simplistic but again i am certain judging others makes you feel better about yourself
You should realize that your chosen profession colors your opinions, opinions that are at odds with the majority of the population.
My chosen profession has nothing to do with my opinions. My opinions have been formed by my experience with couples in these situations. I have also been the victim of domestic violence and stayed with my wife and told the district attorney that I wanted the charges dropped and they were. I am certainly not afraid of my wife. I loved her and wanted to move on without the situation being made worse. We were arguing and she went to kiss me and instead bit my upper lip where it was hanging off and I was bleeding profusely. I needed 10 stitches and still have a scar. If that was caught on videotape it would be horrible but there was no need for her to go to prison. She made a mistake in the heat of the moment and I forgave her. Does that make me stupid or a horrible person?
i applaud you for providing that info.. thats a hard thing to do but you did it... as long as you are happy, thats all that matters...
Quote:
married to someone capable of that.
Dude, providing he's telling the truth, even in relatively anonymous forum, it's difficult to share things of that nature. Calling a victim of domestic abuse stupid... is that the work of a "good person?"
Mike....I expect that from Pork and Beans. It shows his lack of intelligence and awareness. I was very hesitant to write that because I know some on here would make fun but it is 100% true. I am a much bigger than her but left myself vulnerable. I could have hurt her but didn't. There is no benefit for me to share, but someone had indicated that my chosen profession colored my views, so I thought I would mention it
Quote:
In comment 11851430 Pork and Beans said:
Quote:
In comment 11851412 Rangersin7 said:
Quote:
In comment 11851383 Pork and Beans said:
Quote:
that if you are capable of hitting a woman like that, that you are not a good person who made a mistake, you are a bad person.
That video doesn't show a mistake.
I respectfully disagree. If 1 bad act in life makes 1 a bad person then we would all be bad. If there is evidence that this was not an aberration, then I would agree he is bad. In this instance, both people appeared drunk and Rice struck her as she was coming at him. She hit her head on the bar which knocked her out. It was a horrible incident but the conclusions that you draw are simplistic but again i am certain judging others makes you feel better about yourself
You should realize that your chosen profession colors your opinions, opinions that are at odds with the majority of the population.
My chosen profession has nothing to do with my opinions. My opinions have been formed by my experience with couples in these situations. I have also been the victim of domestic violence and stayed with my wife and told the district attorney that I wanted the charges dropped and they were. I am certainly not afraid of my wife. I loved her and wanted to move on without the situation being made worse. We were arguing and she went to kiss me and instead bit my upper lip where it was hanging off and I was bleeding profusely. I needed 10 stitches and still have a scar. If that was caught on videotape it would be horrible but there was no need for her to go to prison. She made a mistake in the heat of the moment and I forgave her. Does that make me stupid or a horrible person?
i applaud you for providing that info.. thats a hard thing to do but you did it... as long as you are happy, thats all that matters...
This occurred 5 years ago. We are not together anymore but for other reasons. We have a child together.
Actually quite funny and don't worry my feelings are not hurt.
I'm assuming you've gotten rid of the titanium bonded tin snips In the garage and sleep with a cup on, right?
I'm assuming you've gotten rid of the titanium bonded tin snips In the garage and sleep with a cup on, right?
LOL
They should have given him more games originally, and mandated counseling for both of them.
They should have given him more games originally, and mandated counseling for both of them.
I agree 100% but it makes way too much sense.
You sir are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters as I agree 100% with your post.
Quote:
self righteous beat your chest holier than thou threads on this thread are silly. Battered wife syndrome? Really? So you can make a diagnosis without ever meeting these people? Please? The Ravens surely didnt write this for her. Why would they? They released him. These judgments on her are so ridiculously unfair. Is there any evidence that Ray Rice batters this woman on a regular basis? I don't think so. She has forgiven him and wants to live a normal life. Ray Rice made a big mistake and huge error in judgment in the heat of the moment. Its like people who say if my spouse cheats I will divorce her or him the next day. Its not that easy. Thank goodness we are not all judged as harshly for any mistake that we make in life as much as some of the posters here want to judge. I find that those who are the harshjest in their judgments are normally those who if you look into their past have done pretty bad things themselves
You sir are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters as I agree 100% with your post.
Thank you T-bone. I appreciate that
But, we can always judge a person's act. IMO Rice's act was reprehensible.
So, what's the punishment by the NFL. If we go back to the Black Sox scandal of the 1919 World Series, the players were banned for life for throwing games; Frank Filchock and Merle Hapes, who played for the 1949 NY Football Giants were suspended indefinitely because of a betting scandal; and as part of the 1950-51 college point-shaving scandal, Bill Spivey was banned indefinitely from the NBA.
The common thread for ALL of these LIFE-TIME bans was "conduct detrimental to the game".
So, where does Rice's action stand- a pro player, strong, well-built and fit, punches a small, defenseless woman who is not physically attacking him and, thus, not putting him in danger of life or limb, knocks her out and drags her from the elevator to their room.
IMO a life-time ban would be justified because Rice's action is so horrific in this day and age that to continue to allow him to play would, in effect, allow a wife-beater to play in the NFL and that would be "detrimental to the game".
What about his income? The Black Sox scandal players never got another paycheck from Major League Baseball; Hapes and Filchock never got another paycheck from any NFL team; and Spivey never got a paycheck from any NBA team. They all got on with their lives, independent of pro sports. Rice should be made to do the same.
The domestic violence one is long and includes current players like Darryl Washington, Brandon Marshall, Sean Locklear, Dez Bryant, and Rocky Bernard.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/arrests/
http://www.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/ - ( New Window )
I mean shit... its not right, but for respected NFL analysts to make it sound like Ray rattled off a boxing combo on her chin, that's misleading.
SO, worse than cold-cocking a woman?
I mean if you get into an argument with a woman and she spits in your face are you legally allowed to defend yourself by punching her?
Or do you have to get another chick to kick her ass for you?
Or because they were engaged to be married at the time is it not the same scenario?
The domestic violence one is long and includes current players like Darryl Washington, Brandon Marshall, Sean Locklear, Dez Bryant, and Rocky Bernard.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/arrests/
http://www.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/ - ( New Window )
Uhhh... Michael Strahan ex-wife excused him of domestic violence but you know he is a Giants HOFer now so....
But, we can always judge a person's act. IMO Rice's act was reprehensible.
So, what's the punishment by the NFL. If we go back to the Black Sox scandal of the 1919 World Series, the players were banned for life for throwing games; Frank Filchock and Merle Hapes, who played for the 1949 NY Football Giants were suspended indefinitely because of a betting scandal; and as part of the 1950-51 college point-shaving scandal, Bill Spivey was banned indefinitely from the NBA.
The common thread for ALL of these LIFE-TIME bans was "conduct detrimental to the game".
So, where does Rice's action stand- a pro player, strong, well-built and fit, punches a small, defenseless woman who is not physically attacking him and, thus, not putting him in danger of life or limb, knocks her out and drags her from the elevator to their room.
IMO a life-time ban would be justified because Rice's action is so horrific in this day and age that to continue to allow him to play would, in effect, allow a wife-beater to play in the NFL and that would be "detrimental to the game".
What about his income? The Black Sox scandal players never got another paycheck from Major League Baseball; Hapes and Filchock never got another paycheck from any NFL team; and Spivey never got a paycheck from any NBA team. They all got on with their lives, independent of pro sports. Rice should be made to do the same.
First off, not sure I completely agree with what I put in bold in that post. Janay WAS in fact approaching Rice in the video when he hit her but you can't say whether she was moving in to attack him or not. Even if she was moving in to attack, I'd rather see him try to restrain her rather than hit him.
I agree with a poster who said earlier in the thread that what I find appalling about Rice's behavior (besides the actual punch) is his seeming lack of concern for her as she's laying on the ground. Just like I told my wife yesterday, if by some chance in a fit of anger I hit her and knocked her out (which in no way do I EVER see happening...but let's just say hypothetically it happened) the first thing I could see me doing is grabbing my head in disbelief and being concerned about her. But at one point he actually nudges her with his foot, almost kicking her, seemingly telling her to get up. What also bothers me is just how easily it seems for the to be putting their hands on each other. Me and my wife have had our share of bad arguments but I can honestly say not once has me putting my hands on her during the argument ever entered my mind. If you're in a relationship where putting your hands on your spouse is accepted, that's a relationship you really don't need to be in.
With all of the above said though, it's very possible that this was a one time occurrence and I agree with those that it appears that the punishment may not really fit the crime here. They were fighting each other. This wasn't a case of Rice coming home from work and punched her out because dinner wasn't ready. Still not condoning what he did in any way, shape or form because restraint, on both sides (but in particular him) should've been shown... but if he's been a good guy this whole time and made this one mistake, although a big one, should he really never be forgiven for that mistake?
First, maybe it's my eyesight, but I don't see her spitting at him.
But, even if she did, he should have pushed her away and wiped his face. KOing a woman because she spit in his face? Don't you think that's disproportionate to what she did?
I was asking was it a legal response.
NFL banned him indefinitely for his one act.
Why should Rice be treated any differently by the NFL?
NFL banned him indefinitely for his one act.
Why should Rice be treated any differently by the NFL?
What Frank did was a premeditated act, not a heat of the moment act (like Ray Rice's appeared to be).
someone mentions he hit her unprovoked. I dont know if her punching him in the face 15 seconds prior qualifies as unprovoked. she clearly punches him in the face as she walks past him on the way into the elevator.From what I've heard she had a habit of whacking him in the head when she thought he was rude or when she got pissed.
She made an Impassioned plea in his defense before the NFL in the first place, which is a large part of the reason Goodell only gave him a 2 game suspension to begin with.Pretty sure she explained to them that she, in fact, had a habit of getting handy with him. Don't get me wrong, I don't excuse or condone it and don't give a shit if he ever plays again.Lock him up for all I care.
the girl did have a history of getting rough with him, and is more upset he's lost his income than the fact she got whacked, and that was her primary concern in this affair from the beggining, In my opinion.
You can see her casually give him a shot to the mug before they even get into the elevator.
Link - ( New Window )
What difference if it was in the heat of the moment? IMO you look at the end result, which was a reprehensible act.
someone mentions he hit her unprovoked. I dont know if her punching him in the face 15 seconds prior qualifies as unprovoked. she clearly punches him in the face as she walks past him on the way into the elevator.From what I've heard she had a habit of whacking him in the head when she thought he was rude or when she got pissed.
She made an Impassioned plea in his defense before the NFL in the first place, which is a large part of the reason Goodell only gave him a 2 game suspension to begin with.Pretty sure she explained to them that she, in fact, had a habit of getting handy with him. Don't get me wrong, I don't excuse or condone it and don't give a shit if he ever plays again.Lock him up for all I care.
the girl did have a history of getting rough with him, and is more upset he's lost his income than the fact she got whacked, and that was her primary concern in this affair from the beggining, In my opinion.
You can see her casually give him a shot to the mug before they even get into the elevator. Link - ( New Window )
And no battered woman has ever told a law enforcement officer or a court "I started it, I shoved him, I hit him, etc etc..." As usual you demonstrate your staggering ignorance of pretty much everything.
You think the wives will be less likely to receive a retaliatory beating if they only get their man 6 games?
For sure, and that's why everyone is mad at the DA for allowing Rice to do a diversion program. But what lesson is the average NFL spouse going to take from this? "If he hits me and I call the law, at minimum he's losing 1/3 of his salary, maybe a lot more."
Quote:
is that if your desire is really to address domestic violence (and not just address your public image), you need to leave space for a woman to come forward. And six games or not if this is perceived to stand for a zero tolerance policy (I realize this is not a run of the mill DV incident) wives and girlfriends are going to be a lot more hesitant to call the cops or to cooperate.
You think the wives will be less likely to receive a retaliatory beating if they only get their man 6 games?
I'm not talking about retaliation, although that's a consideration as well. I'm talking about a wife (or girlfriend) and mother with bruises or a black eye trying to figure out what she should do about it.
Or, if she's the wife of a well-established rich player, she files for divorce, gets her money and goes to Goodell to claim she was a DV victim because she doesn't care about his career anymore.
The real question though is, what's the average NFL player to do? Knowing that his wife may go public and that he loses his career, maybe he will show proper restraint.
What difference if it was in the heat of the moment? IMO you look at the end result, which was a reprehensible act.
The same difference between murder and manslaughter.
In one instance you KNEW you were going to do something illegal and did it anyway.
In the other, it was a spur of the moment emotion or action that caused you to do something illegal.
Or, if she's the wife of a well-established rich player, she files for divorce, gets her money and goes to Goodell to claim she was a DV victim because she doesn't care about his career anymore.
The real question though is, what's the average NFL player to do? Knowing that his wife may go public and that he loses his career, maybe he will show proper restraint.
Maybe so, maybe no. The average NFL wife is still going to get alimony and child support, so she still has reasons to be err on the side of caution.
Quote:
are we sure she's not upset because her meal ticket got killed?
someone mentions he hit her unprovoked. I dont know if her punching him in the face 15 seconds prior qualifies as unprovoked. she clearly punches him in the face as she walks past him on the way into the elevator.From what I've heard she had a habit of whacking him in the head when she thought he was rude or when she got pissed.
She made an Impassioned plea in his defense before the NFL in the first place, which is a large part of the reason Goodell only gave him a 2 game suspension to begin with.Pretty sure she explained to them that she, in fact, had a habit of getting handy with him. Don't get me wrong, I don't excuse or condone it and don't give a shit if he ever plays again.Lock him up for all I care.
the girl did have a history of getting rough with him, and is more upset he's lost his income than the fact she got whacked, and that was her primary concern in this affair from the beggining, In my opinion.
You can see her casually give him a shot to the mug before they even get into the elevator. Link - ( New Window )
And no battered woman has ever told a law enforcement officer or a court "I started it, I shoved him, I hit him, etc etc..." As usual you demonstrate your staggering ignorance of pretty much everything.
As for the NFL, they look worse because there is no freaking way they did not know that there was a surveillance video in an AC casino. AC casinos are some of the most tightly surveilled places on earth due to the risk of people stealing money/chips and you literally have multiple cameras on you at all times
I would not hesitate to sign ray rice as a Giant. You think what he did was worse than what christian peter did in the mid90s?
I would not hesitate to sign ray rice as a Giant. You think what he did was worse than what christian peter did in the mid90s?
It's not the mid-90's. I wasn't happy they signed Peter in the first place, though it is good that he behaved. Some crimes are bad enough that second chances aren't necessarily appropriate, and cold-cocking a woman half your size and a fraction your physical strength to me numbers among them.
But, he was properly punished for SAYING something.
Rice actually DID something- KOd a small, defenseless woman, that is, a violent physical act. Although Rice's action injured one person physically, he injured all of us in the sense that a crime is an offense against society because otherwise society wouldn't prosecute crimes..
You wouldn't hesitate to sign Rice to the Giants roster? You want a woman-beater playing for the Giants? You want to root for a woman-beater? Why would you want to do that?
Life has changed for a lot of things. For example, Redskins is no longer an acceptable word to most people even though the team has been using the word since the 1930s.
I don't believe the Giants would sign someone like Christian Peter today and I wouldn't want them to.
Quote:
.
I haven't finished reading the thread, but so far Duned is spot on.
So? Does this make her a bad person? An Army wife who doesn't want to go forward in a DV prosecution because her husband will get the boot, is she a bad person? How many zeroes on the paycheck makes someone a moneygrubber?
And aside from the money, the worst day of her life is being broadcast and rebroadcast, her conduct scrutinized and criticized, she has become a punchline.
Rangersin7 : 10:50 am : link : reply
his intention was to knock her unconscious?
What if his intention was to kill her? He didn't try to restrain or even push her away, he violently struck her with a closed fist in the head. We obviously can't know his actual intention, but if his immediate intention was to incapacitate her, he definitely succeeded.
Les in TO : 1:42 pm : link : reply
comparison is similar in terms of the fact that the decision is based in part on optics bvy the league; that said sterling hurt an entire race, a race that most nba players and a significant number of coaches, GMs and fans belong to
And Rice hurt an entire gender, a gender that most NFL players' wives/girlfriends and coaches' wives/girlfriends, a large portion of fans, and fans' wives/girlfriends belong to.
But, he was properly punished for SAYING something.
Rice actually DID something- KOd a small, defenseless woman, that is, a violent physical act. Although Rice's action injured one person physically, he injured all of us in the sense that a crime is an offense against society because otherwise society wouldn't prosecute crimes..
You wouldn't hesitate to sign Rice to the Giants roster? You want a woman-beater playing for the Giants? You want to root for a woman-beater? Why would you want to do that?
Life has changed for a lot of things. For example, Redskins is no longer an acceptable word to most people even though the team has been using the word since the 1930s.
I don't believe the Giants would sign someone like Christian Peter today and I wouldn't want them to.
How sexist is your comment.."a small defenseless woman". You want to call her delicate too. Obviously Ray is much stronger but I believe she is taller than him. It is not as if he pounced on her and beat the shit out of her. She came at him and spit in his face and he reflexively hit her. It was a terrible thing to do but I don't think there has been any evidence forthcoming that he is a wife beater. If you read my posts you will see that I am not excusing what he did, but labeling him a wife beater based on 1 incident is rather silly.
Quote:
So you think...
Rangersin7 : 10:50 am : link : reply
his intention was to knock her unconscious?
What if his intention was to kill her? He didn't try to restrain or even push her away, he violently struck her with a closed fist in the head. We obviously can't know his actual intention, but if his immediate intention was to incapacitate her, he definitely succeeded.
Quote:
the sterling
Les in TO : 1:42 pm : link : reply
comparison is similar in terms of the fact that the decision is based in part on optics bvy the league; that said sterling hurt an entire race, a race that most nba players and a significant number of coaches, GMs and fans belong to
And Rice hurt an entire gender, a gender that most NFL players' wives/girlfriends and coaches' wives/girlfriends, a large portion of fans, and fans' wives/girlfriends belong to.
It is clear that they are both drunk, hitting each other, spitting and as she moves towards him he hits her. Legally this is heat of the moment stuff without much if any thought.
In any case, the Ravens/NFL fucked this up in a really royal fashion. They have a video of Ray Rice dragging what appears to be a life-less body out of an elevator and then confirmed the abuse. I actually found him dragging her life-less body around more disturbing than the actual punch in the elevator. He should have, IMV, been cut or suspended at that instant. Give him (and her) a chance to rehabilitate themselves with therapy for the year and then allow him to play next year under the proviso that he goes through some therapeutic process.
She's taller than Rice. How is that relevant to anything?
"Legally this is heat of the moment stuff"? How so? "Heat of the moment" legally applies when a reasonable person would have acted the same way in the same circumstances.
You write that she was spitting at him. I don't see it; but even if she was, would a reasonable person in the same circumstances have KOd her? Or would a reasonable person in the same circumstances have pushed her away, wiped his face and walked away when the elevator opened.
IMO there is no "heat of the moment" defense in Rice's case.
That is a terrible statement.
She's taller than Rice. How is that relevant to anything?
"Legally this is heat of the moment stuff"? How so? "Heat of the moment" legally applies when a reasonable person would have acted the same way in the same circumstances.
You write that she was spitting at him. I don't see it; but even if she was, would a reasonable person in the same circumstances have KOd her? Or would a reasonable person in the same circumstances have pushed her away, wiped his face and walked away when the elevator opened.
IMO there is no "heat of the moment" defense in Rice's case.
In any case, the Ravens/NFL fucked this up in a really royal fashion. They have a video of Ray Rice dragging what appears to be a life-less body out of an elevator and then confirmed the abuse. I actually found him dragging her life-less body around more disturbing than the actual punch in the elevator. He should have, IMV, been cut or suspended at that instant. Give him (and her) a chance to rehabilitate themselves with therapy for the year and then allow him to play next year under the proviso that he goes through some therapeutic process.
Every action by her was caused by Ray Rice being overly aggresive to her first. The spit alone is considered assault and abuse
You can't seriously consider that a punch. I mean, you just can't, you're playing right? I mean, c'mon now.
Quote:
So you think...
Rangersin7 : 10:50 am : link : reply
his intention was to knock her unconscious?
What if his intention was to kill her? He didn't try to restrain or even push her away, he violently struck her with a closed fist in the head. We obviously can't know his actual intention, but if his immediate intention was to incapacitate her, he definitely succeeded.
Quote:
the sterling
Les in TO : 1:42 pm : link : reply
comparison is similar in terms of the fact that the decision is based in part on optics bvy the league; that said sterling hurt an entire race, a race that most nba players and a significant number of coaches, GMs and fans belong to
And Rice hurt an entire gender, a gender that most NFL players' wives/girlfriends and coaches' wives/girlfriends, a large portion of fans, and fans' wives/girlfriends belong to.
Rice didn't hurt an entire gender. He didn't go on a women- punching spree and doesn't have a history of public mysoginist comments or actions. He hit his partner. Sterling hurt an entire race, even if it was just words and it was not the first time he had racial controversial behaviour (see the lawsuits against him/his propery management company for not renting to african americans).
Quote:
comparison is similar in terms of the fact that the decision is based in part on optics bvy the league; that said sterling hurt an entire race, a race that most nba players and a significant number of coaches, GMs and fans belong to while rice hurt one person with his actions. sterling was not genuine or contrite but got defensive over his rights so sterling's victims were not forgiving. rice owned his actions and his victim very much forgave him.
I would not hesitate to sign ray rice as a Giant. You think what he did was worse than what christian peter did in the mid90s?
It's not the mid-90's. I wasn't happy they signed Peter in the first place, though it is good that he behaved. Some crimes are bad enough that second chances aren't necessarily appropriate, and cold-cocking a woman half your size and a fraction your physical strength to me numbers among them.
In 1995, rape was a pretty big deal and the Giants still look a chance with CP.
What he did in that elevator at Revel was so disgraceful and so hurtful, so insanely disappointing. I fucking hate that he did it, it makes me so mad. It hurts that someone who I was such a fan of could do something so terrible. He deserved at LEAST an 8 game suspension.
I think there is a lot of lot of bullshit though that has gone on after the fact is really muddling things up.
From what I've seen (I could be wrong), Rice never tried to defend his actions. It seems like he has admitted what he did was terrible and taken his lumps.
The NFL, Goodell, and the Ravens are the group that tried to do a lot of this damage control that is leading to a lot of additional backlash. There was no "coverup" by Ray Rice. There was the NFL and the Ravens trying to marginalize the issue. They deserve the blame for this portion of the incident. The after-the-fact indefinite suspension is also complete bullshit. The Ravens releasing him solely because of public pressure is also bullshit. If they had any kind of conviction regarding their sentiments on his action, he would have been released right away. If they had even a little conviction about their sentiments regarding his actions, THEY would have benched him for longer than his 2 game suspension. They are 1000% image conscious and money hungry.
The rage at this light suspension (which was ABSURDLY light for such a terrible crime) has resulted in calls to have Rice banned forever, and has essentially gotten him blacklisted and disgraced. This is a league where Michael Vick routinely killed animals and was accepted back into the league, or where Leonard Little drove drunk and killed someone, and was accepted back in the league. Yeah, I know the court of public opinion rules all, but would these cries for a lifetime ban occurred if the 2 game suspension was longer? This is an open, honest question, not a rhetorical one. I also don't think this would have happened without the video.
Also, the attacks on Janay Rice are fucking bullshit. People are really getting on the victim here. None of you know their relationship enough to say she has battered woman syndrome or stockholm syndrome. There isn't a pattern of domestic abuse here, this isn't someone who has a history of this action. This seems to be an isolated incident, which I think should be taken into account when considering Janay Rice's motives for her statement, and to be honest, in the disgrace of Rice.
Regardless, maybe I am just putting a spin on it to take the edge off because I was such a big Ray Rice fan. But I will still stand by comments that are calling Janay Rice a golddigger, talking about her Michael Kors collection, and attacking her in general, are fucking deplorable.
It is possible for them, as a couple, to attempt to work out their differences. Nobody here can say that this is battered woman syndrome with confidence, or that he is going to take out more anger on her and beat her cause this was her fault, or that he might kill her, or any of that other ridiculous bullshit.
If this was someone with a history of violence and criminal record, it might make more sense.
Whatever, feel free to call me a piece of shit, say I'm making Rice to be a victim (I'm not, this is all his own fault)...
I am not defending Rice's actions. He made his bed.
I do think he should, eventually, if he proves himself, one day get a chance at redemption. That's as far as my positive thoughts for him goes.
What he did in that elevator at Revel was so disgraceful and so hurtful, so insanely disappointing. I fucking hate that he did it, it makes me so mad. It hurts that someone who I was such a fan of could do something so terrible. He deserved at LEAST an 8 game suspension.
I think there is a lot of lot of bullshit though that has gone on after the fact is really muddling things up.
From what I've seen (I could be wrong), Rice never tried to defend his actions. It seems like he has admitted what he did was terrible and taken his lumps.
The NFL, Goodell, and the Ravens are the group that tried to do a lot of this damage control that is leading to a lot of additional backlash. There was no "coverup" by Ray Rice. There was the NFL and the Ravens trying to marginalize the issue. They deserve the blame for this portion of the incident. The after-the-fact indefinite suspension is also complete bullshit. The Ravens releasing him solely because of public pressure is also bullshit. If they had any kind of conviction regarding their sentiments on his action, he would have been released right away. If they had even a little conviction about their sentiments regarding his actions, THEY would have benched him for longer than his 2 game suspension. They are 1000% image conscious and money hungry.
The rage at this light suspension (which was ABSURDLY light for such a terrible crime) has resulted in calls to have Rice banned forever, and has essentially gotten him blacklisted and disgraced. This is a league where Michael Vick routinely killed animals and was accepted back into the league, or where Leonard Little drove drunk and killed someone, and was accepted back in the league. Yeah, I know the court of public opinion rules all, but would these cries for a lifetime ban occurred if the 2 game suspension was longer? This is an open, honest question, not a rhetorical one. I also don't think this would have happened without the video.
Also, the attacks on Janay Rice are fucking bullshit. People are really getting on the victim here. None of you know their relationship enough to say she has battered woman syndrome or stockholm syndrome. There isn't a pattern of domestic abuse here, this isn't someone who has a history of this action. This seems to be an isolated incident, which I think should be taken into account when considering Janay Rice's motives for her statement, and to be honest, in the disgrace of Rice.
Regardless, maybe I am just putting a spin on it to take the edge off because I was such a big Ray Rice fan. But I will still stand by comments that are calling Janay Rice a golddigger, talking about her Michael Kors collection, and attacking her in general, are fucking deplorable.
It is possible for them, as a couple, to attempt to work out their differences. Nobody here can say that this is battered woman syndrome with confidence, or that he is going to take out more anger on her and beat her cause this was her fault, or that he might kill her, or any of that other ridiculous bullshit.
If this was someone with a history of violence and criminal record, it might make more sense.
Whatever, feel free to call me a piece of shit, say I'm making Rice to be a victim (I'm not, this is all his own fault)...
She bites his fat neck it lights up his nose
While his wife attends an orchid show
She squealed for a month to get him to go
She's 13 and knows how to be nasty
Taxing my memory here, the Fugs or Cap't Berfheart w/o Zappa?
Brown Shoes Don't Make It - ( New Window )
Quote:
Full disclosure... Ray Rice was one of my favorite players of all time, as I was a Rutgers graduate, and was at school the same time as him. I have only rooted for a handful of players as hard as him. And he was likable, by all accounts he was high character, etc etc.
What he did in that elevator at Revel was so disgraceful and so hurtful, so insanely disappointing. I fucking hate that he did it, it makes me so mad. It hurts that someone who I was such a fan of could do something so terrible. He deserved at LEAST an 8 game suspension.
I think there is a lot of lot of bullshit though that has gone on after the fact is really muddling things up.
From what I've seen (I could be wrong), Rice never tried to defend his actions. It seems like he has admitted what he did was terrible and taken his lumps.
The NFL, Goodell, and the Ravens are the group that tried to do a lot of this damage control that is leading to a lot of additional backlash. There was no "coverup" by Ray Rice. There was the NFL and the Ravens trying to marginalize the issue. They deserve the blame for this portion of the incident. The after-the-fact indefinite suspension is also complete bullshit. The Ravens releasing him solely because of public pressure is also bullshit. If they had any kind of conviction regarding their sentiments on his action, he would have been released right away. If they had even a little conviction about their sentiments regarding his actions, THEY would have benched him for longer than his 2 game suspension. They are 1000% image conscious and money hungry.
The rage at this light suspension (which was ABSURDLY light for such a terrible crime) has resulted in calls to have Rice banned forever, and has essentially gotten him blacklisted and disgraced. This is a league where Michael Vick routinely killed animals and was accepted back into the league, or where Leonard Little drove drunk and killed someone, and was accepted back in the league. Yeah, I know the court of public opinion rules all, but would these cries for a lifetime ban occurred if the 2 game suspension was longer? This is an open, honest question, not a rhetorical one. I also don't think this would have happened without the video.
Also, the attacks on Janay Rice are fucking bullshit. People are really getting on the victim here. None of you know their relationship enough to say she has battered woman syndrome or stockholm syndrome. There isn't a pattern of domestic abuse here, this isn't someone who has a history of this action. This seems to be an isolated incident, which I think should be taken into account when considering Janay Rice's motives for her statement, and to be honest, in the disgrace of Rice.
Regardless, maybe I am just putting a spin on it to take the edge off because I was such a big Ray Rice fan. But I will still stand by comments that are calling Janay Rice a golddigger, talking about her Michael Kors collection, and attacking her in general, are fucking deplorable.
It is possible for them, as a couple, to attempt to work out their differences. Nobody here can say that this is battered woman syndrome with confidence, or that he is going to take out more anger on her and beat her cause this was her fault, or that he might kill her, or any of that other ridiculous bullshit.
If this was someone with a history of violence and criminal record, it might make more sense.
Whatever, feel free to call me a piece of shit, say I'm making Rice to be a victim (I'm not, this is all his own fault)...
Well said, and I agree with 95% of it, but I would disagree with your assertion that this is an isolated incident. I think it is stretching it to suggest that the one time Rice chooses to hit a woman is when they are in a public place and it is caught on video.
Understood. I'm also taking into account he's actually never been in trouble with pretty much anything, ever. Also, (assumptively) drunken arguments in AC casinos aren't uncommon, it's one of the more likely places to get super drunk and in a fight. Money, girlfriends, other girls, free alcohol, nightclubs... It's pretty much where people end up in fights with their SO's.
I DO NOT intend for this to read as a justification as his action. I am merely contending that this is one a very likely places for this severity of an argument between them two occur, which, when compounded with the fact that casinos are heavily monitored, could explain how this was an isolated incident of battery. THIS DOES NOT excuse or justify his actions whatsoever. Arguments happen all the time, that's not a reason to beat your SO... I'm just saying AC Casinos are pretty much a breeding ground for huge fights between couples, I've seen it so many times.
Honestly though, it's more of the fact that he's 100% clean other than this, which wants to make me give him the benefit of doubt (and of course the Rutgers bias inside of me, which is most likely skewing my perception of the entire situation).
But what does this suspension and cutting do? It just removes the NFL and the Ravens from the problem. It doesn't help the victim. And it doesn't help Rice. You may not care, but they both need help. It would have been more productive to give him 4 more games suspension and make the couple go to counseling before he could be reinstated.
That is a terrible statement.
You are an idiot. One word does not void an argument. In fact that doesn't even make sense. I used the word tall because the other poster used the word small. I will agree that small and short are 2 different things so take that word out and my point is still the same. She was not running away as if she was scared. Instead she was being confrontational and she admits as much. Just because someone may not have the other physical capacity to cause serious damage does not mean they have a right to be overly aggressive and violent towards another. Rice punching her was wrong and no one disagrees with that but the overreaction by the NFL and some on here is pathetic
The police summons describes Rice as "striking" his fiancee.
Rice pleads guilty and avoids prosecution by agreeing to counseling program.
At a subsequent news conference, Janay apologizes and while Rice speaks a lot he never says. "I'm sorry"
Goodell suspends Rice for 2 games.
London Fletcher says he's disappointed in Goodell.
Goodell institutes new DV policy: 6 game suspension for 1st offense and indefinite suspension for 2d DV.
New video released and goes viral.
Ravens release Rice and Goodell suspends him indefinitely.
So, until the new video was released, all I knew was that Rice's lawyer characterized Rice's action as "very minor" the police summons said "striking" and the judge and DA agreed to no trial. So, to be honest, based on all of the above. I thought Rice SLAPPED her but did not punch her; because he's a pro FB player and, thus, strong, I thought that she hit her head against the wall or floor, causing her to be unconscious.
The new video is an order of magnitude difference IMO- he PUNCHED her in the head.
So, maybe that's all the info that Goodell legally had and issued a 2 game suspension- bad judgment IMO but understandable in light of "very minor physical altercation", "striking" and the legal process deciding not to prosecute. With the new video, which Goodell could now legally rely upon, he indefinitely suspends Rice. IMO the right decision but he should have said life-time ban.
What about the new 6 game suspension for 1st time DV action? First, in his original statement banning Rice, Goodell reserved the right to impose a more severe suspension. Second, technically Rice's DV occurred PRIOR TO the new 6 game suspension punishment.
IMO what Goodell did was to finally do the right thing but IMO he should have said life-time ban and strictly adhere to it, especially for a guy who didn't say that he was sorry at the news conference where Janay apologized.
On the other hand, his lack of willingness to apologize to his own wife at the press conference was an excellent reason to extend the length of the suspension.
Even in court, judges take remorse into account, if it's credible. He didn't even try, at let his wife apologize as if she were a co-conspirator. I guess in his mind she was; she could have done a better job of ducking.
Not as close as I thought. I didn't think Zappa was involved and I mixed up the lyrics. Oh well, it's probably been 30 years since I actually heard that song. Can't remember what I had for breakfast though...
Quote:
By mentioning her height as if it matters in any capacity you totally voided any credibility for your argument.
That is a terrible statement.
You are an idiot. One word does not void an argument. In fact that doesn't even make sense. I used the word tall because the other poster used the word small. I will agree that small and short are 2 different things so take that word out and my point is still the same. She was not running away as if she was scared. Instead she was being confrontational and she admits as much. Just because someone may not have the other physical capacity to cause serious damage does not mean they have a right to be overly aggressive and violent towards another. Rice punching her was wrong and no one disagrees with that but the overreaction by the NFL and some on here is pathetic
The "overreaction by the NFL?"
Are you... serious? It has been unanimously agreed upon that the NFL tremendously under-reacted and perhaps lied. I defended you earlier when people called you stupid because I didn't think it was right considering your wife abused you physically. But it appears that your abuse has totally distorted your perception on this issue, as well as your ability to analyze what's happening with Rice. If you think the NFL "overreacted" to this, and as originally stated, if you think her height has ANY validity in regards to the severity of what Rice did, you are simply embarrassing yourself.
Quote:
In comment 11852350 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
By mentioning her height as if it matters in any capacity you totally voided any credibility for your argument.
That is a terrible statement.
You are an idiot. One word does not void an argument. In fact that doesn't even make sense. I used the word tall because the other poster used the word small. I will agree that small and short are 2 different things so take that word out and my point is still the same. She was not running away as if she was scared. Instead she was being confrontational and she admits as much. Just because someone may not have the other physical capacity to cause serious damage does not mean they have a right to be overly aggressive and violent towards another. Rice punching her was wrong and no one disagrees with that but the overreaction by the NFL and some on here is pathetic
The "overreaction by the NFL?"
Are you... serious? It has been unanimously agreed upon that the NFL tremendously under-reacted and perhaps lied. I defended you earlier when people called you stupid because I didn't think it was right considering your wife abused you physically. But it appears that your abuse has totally distorted your perception on this issue, as well as your ability to analyze what's happening with Rice. If you think the NFL "overreacted" to this, and as originally stated, if you think her height has ANY validity in regards to the severity of what Rice did, you are simply embarrassing yourself.
Mike. You can't be that stupid can you. I was talks ng about the NFL's actions now...indefinite suspension. You are purposely distorting my point because your criticism of me is baseless and has no validity. In my last post I took height out. That had nothing to do with my main point and was only brought up because someone called her small. Her height and weight have nothing to do with it. However to pretend that she was not physically aggressive is silly. I hate to have too constantly repeat this but I feel obligated so that I don't get attacked by the mob, Rice was dead wrong for punching her. He should be punished and suspended for that. But to pretend this happened in a vacuum is equally silly. You are the one distorting my point and embarrassing yourself. The overreaction is what is occurring now Mike. Hopefully your reading comprehension has improved.
Worry about yourself pal. I was responding to Mike. If you don't like my viewpoint, you have every right to ignore.