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How would YOU fix this team?

phil fromphilly : 9/9/2014 12:24 pm
First off, no need for name calling or attacks, just express your opinion on what needs to change.

I would really love to hear everyone's take on what they would do to fix this mess. Put on your GM / Owner hat and take a stab. And please, don't be dicks, we are all fans of the same team and just want to see them be competitive year after year.

Here is my take. First off I would do the right thing for both the team and Eli and trade him sooner rather than later. The Rams, the Texans, whoever, just get as much as you can for him, hopefully a quality guard could be had in the process to assist in Nassib's development. I would let TC ride out the season and allow him to "retire" as was done with Gilbride. Reese would get no such pass, I would fire him immediately and start the search for a new GM. This would allow the new guy to really start studying the roster to get rid of the dead wood (J. Williams, M. Herzlich, W. Beatty, etc.) and give him time to start eyeballing a new head coach.

I only wish they had just done this back in January. Even if we watched a losing season this year you would have the sense that they were building for the future. Now I just have the sense that they clung to the past a year (or 2) too long. It's quite depressing watching that kind of scenario play out.

I'll finish with saying that I truly appreciate what TC and Eli have brought us for the past decade. I also can appreciate ownership being so loyal to these 2 for as long as they have. At this point however they need to be loyal to the rest of the quality players on the team as well as their fans and do what is needed to put a quality team on the field for the next decade and beyond.
Pretty much agree  
jeff57 : 9/9/2014 12:27 pm : link
I would try to trade Manning to the Rams, Bucs or Houston. But I'm not sure what the cap implications will be. I'd let Nassib try to show whether he can be the starting QB.

After the season, I'd completely clean house in the front office and on the sidelines.
fix  
TimsGiants : 9/9/2014 12:27 pm : link
Start with promoting Washington and Parker over Randle and Jernigen. They have to be better...
Online  
102780 : 9/9/2014 12:29 pm : link
Doesn't matter who is throwing the ball, running, or catching it....this line is garbage....draft the best OL in draft, and sign top FA OL.
Re:  
jripper420 : 9/9/2014 12:29 pm : link
Convince Ernie Accorsi to come out of retirement??
Re:  
jripper420 : 9/9/2014 12:31 pm : link
*Either Trade Eli, and let Nassib play. Guy was the only QB who looked ready to play in the preseason.

*Admit you made a mistake firing Gilbride when it was an atrocious o line that was responsible
Wow with such unique and innovative ideas  
JCin332 : 9/9/2014 12:34 pm : link
I would think Mara and Tisch would consider you for the job...
Re:  
jripper420 : 9/9/2014 12:34 pm : link
Smoke a big fatty, watch the GMEN go 1-15, watch Coughlin retire, Fire Reese or put him on notice, use a draft pick on a player who is NFL ready and a playmaker whether on the O line, or on Defense

Is there really a way to fix this ungodly collection of talentless trash?
.....Sure hope so
Trade Manning to a contending team in need of a QB  
DavidinBMNY : 9/9/2014 12:35 pm : link
Get Nassib on the field (see what he has)
Get picks in the next 2 years drafts.

Get new blood into the scouting/personnel department to use these picks.

How else can they improve drastically?
Too early to tell, but here are two scenarios...  
bceagle05 : 9/9/2014 12:36 pm : link
If the Giants show signs of life with this offense and Eli puts forth a decent year, I don't think we cut bait just yet. Draft and sign more offensive lineman til we get a combo that works. We knew the OL would be a two-year fix.

Or, if this season goes to shit in the form of a 3-13 season, it's housecleaning time. Reese should be out the door first. I believe we can win again with Eli but I wouldn't be able to pass on Mariota, especially when the alternative is paying a declining Manning $20 million to endure a rebuilding process anyway. Build the offense from scratch around a young QB, Cruz, Beckham (if he ever plays), Andre Williams, Richburg and Pugh. The rest can catch the first flight out of town. As for Coughlin, it's not his fault but there isn't much logic behind keeping him for a multi-year rebuild.

This will be fascinating to watch.
What can be done with the OL?  
ij_reilly : 9/9/2014 12:37 pm : link
You could try Richburg at C, but then who plays LG?

The Giants have 3 RGs on the roster - Schwartz, Mosley, and Jerry. Schwartz of course is on short IR and playing LG when healthy (nobody knows why).

If the line still sucks when Schwartz returns, then I guess you could move Richburg to C and plug Schwartz in at LG. The better of Mosley/Jerry starts at RG.

Apparently Snyder sucks, that's why he was available. Otherwise, he might fit at LG, I don't know.

The line is a mess. There's no fixing it. Either they play better, or Eli gets killed and the team wins a few games and finishes last in the NFC East.
I'm a fan of the laundry, but trading Eli would significantly impact..  
Britt in VA : 9/9/2014 12:39 pm : link
my fandom in a bad way.

I think right now the only thing that can "fix" the team is time. They've made a bunch of moves, now they're going to have to play out for awhile before we know which ones worked and which one's didn't.

I do know that I would get rid of Fewell and the Tampa 2 next offseason.
Continue the rebuild...  
rocco8112 : 9/9/2014 12:39 pm : link
...by focusing on improving the O line and moving the strength of the team to the defensive side of the ball.

Even though we won a title with him I would replace Fewell with another coordinator who is able to actually design some pass pressure packages. I am also sick of seeing endless blown coverages and conversions by the opposition on absurd third and longs , it seems under this DC we have so many.

Fortify the D and build a physical O line. Move away from the idea that you have to air it out 45 times a game to win.

Eli to me is the least of the Giants problem, assemble any type of meaningful squad around him and you have a puncher's chance to beat anyone in the NFL anytime. We have seen this for a decade now. If you have a strong D and keep things close until late I have no doubt Eli will make some big plays to put the Giants on top.



RE  
jripper420 : 9/9/2014 12:39 pm : link
Its sad Elis prime will be spent on a stretcher the way this line plays football...Nassib better be ready...
Use draft almost exclusively for trenches and defensive backfield  
SB : 9/9/2014 12:40 pm : link
...use FA for skill positions.

This season is lost, IMO. Too much talentless dreck vets. I would bench non-performing vets like Beatty, but thanks to Reese the fill-ins would be Brown or Brewer <puke>.
Week 1. Loss. Fan Reaction? TRADE MANNING.  
x meadowlander : 9/9/2014 12:40 pm : link
My reaction? TRADE FANS.
Is Eli tradeable?  
Josh in MD : 9/9/2014 12:40 pm : link
Yes, this team needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Eli has done some great things, but his contract is a huge impediment to rebuilding. If some other team will take it, it scarcely matters what we get for him. We desperately need a new GM and scouts. And if we have anything that can be traded for draft picks, we should be dealing. We have a few promising young players. Let's build around them. An era (which included some wonderful moments) has closed. The faster we open a new one the better
I think Eli has another 5 years in him  
JoefromPa : 9/9/2014 12:41 pm : link
so I wouldn't trade him..

I don't have any idea how to fix it. But I will say the team is woefully devoid of talent. Whomever or whatever is responsible needs to be replaced of fixed.
We might have to come to the realization  
dep026 : 9/9/2014 12:42 pm : link
that this maybe Eli's last year. I would let him play next year too, but after that, who knows?

I want us to draft nothing but OL/DL for the next 2 years. Load up on those fronts. Even though we have a glaring need at WR, our lines are so putrid right now. When Nassib or whoever takes over, I want an established, dominant line in front of them so we dont see shit shows like we have the last two years.
.....  
Micko : 9/9/2014 12:42 pm : link
If you buy into the fact that the offensive line is going to take substantial over-haul to fix over the next few years then there really is a problem with Eli. He is due way too much money next year and can you really re-sign him with what we've seen? Mid-30s QB who will command too much $$ based on past performance. The plan was to have a strong team that he could lead well into his late 30s; however, it would appear that is not going to happen. So, is this the right time to unload the contract? Will that help save the team long-term and facilitate the rebuild? I'm hoping for a quick turnaround this year but my gut is telling me the ride is long-since over and we're deep into the wilderness again. Really sucks to think about that :*(
RE: Online  
Giants2012 : 9/9/2014 12:43 pm : link
In comment 11851752 102780 said:
Quote:
Doesn't matter who is throwing the ball, running, or catching it....this line is garbage....draft the best OL in draft, and sign top FA OL.


don't wake the simple
Trading Eli makes no sense...  
rocco8112 : 9/9/2014 12:43 pm : link
...why would anyone even contemplate it? Does no one recall what it was like before the Giants had a real franchise QB?

How about we trade him to the Jets? If Eli was on the Jets right now they would be a legit super bowl contender.
re  
jripper420 : 9/9/2014 12:43 pm : link
Dont have to worry about trading Manning. I have a feeling after 4 or 5 games on a surgically repaired ankle and the beating hes going to take he might be looking at either the season on the IR or early retirement
imo  
whobetta : 9/9/2014 12:43 pm : link
Reese, TC and Eli would have to go. As much as I love Eli and the 2 SB comeback miracles he made the inconsistency and just inability to make good throws on a regular basis is not going to get better. and the fact he is feeling the rush more so than beating it... the David Carr effect is definitely there. INT's are just inexcusable at this point.

when this team O/D still look like they don't know what is going on, after a while its obviously NOT just the players so the HC and GM gotta go... drafting is shit and preparation or teaching just doesn't seem to be there.

whoever else that is contributing to piss poor execution of the OL, that coach has to go.

oh and Perry Fewell... jesus christ... when will we stop playing 10 yards off the WR's when the 1st down marker is 3 yards away?

get better talent evaluators... poach from any other teams no matter the cost

with the top 5 pick get Winston/Mariotta whatever and brig in a new college coach...

rocco  
Micko : 9/9/2014 12:49 pm : link
You could argue we don't have a franchise QB right now. Eli is being paid like one but he hasn't played like one in years. That's why this is a tough call. These are not simple questions to answer.
OL, OL, OL, OL!  
Aaron in MA : 9/9/2014 12:49 pm : link
Guys, seriously. Wake up. Its the offensive line.
Right  
AcidTest : 9/9/2014 12:50 pm : link
now, there isn't anything you can do, except replace players on the OL. And the backups don't look they're any good either. So we're stuck. Trading Eli is the type of ridiculous nonsense that populates BBI. If we tank, and are say 2-6, then benching him for Nassib is fine. We need to see what Nassib has going into next season. We would also probably cut Eli after the year, for everyone's benefit. We can't pay him $17M, and he would need to go to a team that could protect him.

As for the OL, there is nothing we can do. Do you really want to replace Jerry with Mosley? Or Beatty with Brewer or Brown? Going from terrible to horrendous IMO. You can bench JJ and Randle, but are Parker, and Washington, a UDFA from Newberry, any better? And they probably have even less rapport with Eli than JJ and Randle since they got most of their reps with Nassib.

Here's what you do right now: prepare for Arizona.
RE: Week 1. Loss. Fan Reaction? TRADE MANNING.  
Hades07 : 9/9/2014 12:51 pm : link
In comment 11851810 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
My reaction? TRADE FANS.
Seriously, I sure hope the team has less quit in them than their fans.
I agree  
jtfuoco : 9/9/2014 12:51 pm : link
I agree with most of what you said. However, I don’t think you will get much for Eli and I don’t think he is the main problem. He has the ability to lead this offense but he needs more time and some talent at the WR position. He has nobody making plays for him and when you're always down you can't just sit back and give up you need to force things and that’s has been his problem.

Reese has been horrible these past few seasons and I could forgive him but he comes off so arrogant and smug I can't stand him and would love to fire both him and Ross in person. Mara should realize that you have major problems in your organization when none of your assistant coaches or front office people are getting looked for jobs on other teams. Perry Fewell is a below average DC we see the same issues with our soft zones and blitzes that never get to the Qb as you did when he first came here. McAdoo might be a ok OC but he is so green and inexperienced in calling games it will take time to learn but unfortunately for him he will be fired with this staff and it may stunt his future development. Finally the HC I love the guy but this team seems to have the same issues injuries, young talent that never see the field and blind loyalty to coaches that should have seen the door years ago. For that reason he has to go like the rest.
I don't know if you can at this point  
prdave73 : 9/9/2014 12:52 pm : link
with such a horrible offensive line?? You can try out some different players like Washington and Parker but how much would that help if Eli doesn't have any time to throw to them? But yeah I would start at trying Washington and Parker, give Eli some tall targets like Washington and hope they can get Beckham back soon. I would take out Kiwi and start Moore in his place. This defense needs to improve the pass rush which looked horrible and made it harder for the secondary! Give some other lineman a chance, hopefully get back Schwartz put Richburg at center. Beatty was just horrible, but what do the Giants have as another option at LT?? smh..

Have a serious sit down talk with Fewell and have him revamp his playcalling to adapt to the players strengths! Play calling by him was horrible, completely outcoached by the Lions. That's just a few things to begin with for now. Any type of changes at this point couldn't hurt the team, I don't see how it can get any worse..
......  
Micko : 9/9/2014 12:56 pm : link
One question - do we have a better chance of winning that game last night if Eli doesn't throw those 2 horrible INTs? Are those not his fault? Did he not do that all of last year and throughout much of his career? He's always done it - the difference is between 08-12 he coupled that with a bunch of TDs. Now the TDs are gone but the mind-numbingly dumb INTs are still here. Wake up everybody. It's the o-line AND Eli. Eli would be fine w/ a great offensive line - but he wouldn't be great.
Short term  
old man : 9/9/2014 12:58 pm : link
Make a lot of phone calls to teams, asking about a deal for their #6OL,#4WR, or #5DT(if he can push the line back);
Scout teams PS list for 'hidden' players;
Have D take lessons on 'how not to get faked out by every O position players hip movements'(was there not a fake step we didnt fall for last night?)

Long term:
Draft OL
Team speed and/or quickness (we are sooo slow)

And after another survival-dash by Eli most of last night, the trade Eli comment on this thread makes a lot of sense if there is no short term team improvement to the OL. Poor guy is gonna get killed; especially on 1 play where he was on his knees a la YA after dumping off to Jennings.
I'd hate it, but at least most anywhere else, he likely does not get killed.
This past offseason was mind-boggling  
SB : 9/9/2014 12:58 pm : link
the O line was beyond horrible last year and out "depth" guys proved they don't belong in the NFL. So in FA our big money signings were a journeyman guard that started only 7 games last year (and hadn't started a full season since 2010) and a center that hadn't played any football whatsoever in nearly two years. And then a bunch of palookas. And we still keep our garbage guys like Brewer and Reynolds.

Then, in the best draft for tackles and guards in a decade, we fail to draft a tackle or a guard. But we draft a DT in the 3rd round that was out getting a sub when the Giants picked him because he was sure he wouldn't be drafted that high.
This year?  
phil in arizona : 9/9/2014 1:02 pm : link
As bad as they look, you can't panic just yet. You have to stay the course and see what you have. The first 2 games after Spags became DC were terrible too.

Now if it's still like this in 2 months, then that's another story.
I'd ask how many guys  
bc4life : 9/9/2014 1:06 pm : link
are still confused about the playbook. I'd ask the coaches if they were sure it needed to be this complex, while simultaneously asking the confused players - how many of them are putting in extra time to get it down. Based on the performance last night - not one player should have left when practice was over.
Here's what you do right now: prepare for Arizona.  
BillKo : 9/9/2014 1:06 pm : link
Best post I read today.......
another solution  
bc4life : 9/9/2014 1:07 pm : link
tell the players to read BBI for pointers on how to play better.
Almost no way to trade Eli during the regular season  
dpinzow : 9/9/2014 1:16 pm : link
Houston is near the cap threshold and I don't think they can restructure enough contracts to take a $20 million cap hit. There is no other situation that benefits all sides because the other teams who have the cap space are not close to contention even with Eli and won't surrender future 1st round picks to go from 4-12 to 8-8

The offseason is a totally different matter though
some of you need to get a grip  
AnnapolisMike : 9/9/2014 1:20 pm : link
Trade Eli....Cut Beatty...all stellar ideas.

What lead to the Giants Success in the past. A freaking plan. How good has flying by the seat of your pants worked with other franchises?
we need playmakers on offense  
djm : 9/9/2014 1:21 pm : link
period. OL is a work in progress but the WRs and even the RBs are dreadful. The best RB on this team is a career journeyman. Nothing against Jennings, but he's an average player. The WRs are fucking terrible. Cruz is very good. Jernigan is average with no size at all and Randle is terrible.

This offense has no fire power. No room for error and it makes a lot of errors.

Star power. We lack it.
Phil....I agree with all of your suggestions at for the most part.  
Geeman : 9/9/2014 1:23 pm : link
I do however think they will have to ride out this season with Eli at the helm.
I asume you mean fix the team NOW.  
Bobby Epps : 9/9/2014 1:24 pm : link
I don't think you can do much more than tinker at the margins but here goes:

Start Corey Washington over JJ. JJ's too short and too lacking in talent to be a starter. In fact, if there's a promising WR on someone else's PS, release JJ and sign that WR. IMO there are lots of players on varios PS like JJ.

Start Demps or Berhe over Stevie Brown. Brown is too slow, misses tackles and seems to be frequently out of position.

Start Kennard over Jacquian Williams. Williams is not a 3-down LB but should only be in there on passing downs.

Drop Fells and sign a TE from someone else's PS. If that player doesn't work out, then sign another PS TE until you find one who has potential. I don't believe Fells has any potential and if he's not starting at his age and experience, then release him.

Release Charles Brown, James Brewer and Dallas Reynolds and sign OL from other team's PS until we find 3 OL with potential. Brown and Brewer are terrible and Reynolds, at 30 years old, is not getting better. Seahawks just signed Andrew McDonald OT from the Panther PS, for example.

Move Pugh to LT to protect Eli's blind side, which is where Pugh played in college and play John Jerry or Adam Snyder at RT, a position each has played in the past.

Start Kuhn or Bromley over Patterson. Make Patterson Inactive and rotate Kuhn and Bromley in and out.

Activate Kerry Wynn and de-activate Herzlich. Rotate Wynn at DE with JPP, Kiwi, Moore and Ayers. Herzlich really playing only on STs.

When Schwartz comes back, put him at RG , which is where he played so well last year.

Demote Perry Futile from DC and promote someone, anyone from the current coaching staff.

Stop the zone defenses and play man coverage. Stop 3 man pass rushes.

Stop fooling around with Eli's footwork. Let him use the footwork that won 2 SBs.
the one thing right with this team  
djm : 9/9/2014 1:24 pm : link
Is Eli Manning. When the offense is capable, Eli delivers. Time and time again.

Trading Eli for stupid fucking draft picks is crazy. The offense isn't far away from being fixed. A WR here, a OL there and it could turn around real quick. Trade Eli and this offense is years away from contending.

Keep adding talent to the offense. Right now you have Eli, Cruz, Pugh, Walton, Richburg and maybe Donnell...and that's about it. MAybe one of Randle and Jernigan emerge as a decent 2-3 WR...hopefully Beckum shows legit WR potential before the end of the year.

Add talent. Don't trade it away unless the offer for Eli is so good it's impossible to pass it up. We better be getting a king's ransom for Eli. I have news for you all, we won't.
RE: we need playmakers on offense  
BillKo : 9/9/2014 1:25 pm : link
In comment 11851965 djm said:
Quote:
period. OL is a work in progress but the WRs and even the RBs are dreadful. The best RB on this team is a career journeyman. Nothing against Jennings, but he's an average player. The WRs are fucking terrible. Cruz is very good. Jernigan is average with no size at all and Randle is terrible.

This offense has no fire power. No room for error and it makes a lot of errors.

Star power. We lack it.


I think calling our RBs dreadful is a bit of an exaggeration.......we need another month of football to help better evaulate.
Fix it  
blueblood'11 : 9/9/2014 1:29 pm : link
I thought John Mara did that by forcing out Gilbride and bringing in McAdoo. This is on Mara. Good job johnnie.
RE: the one thing right with this team  
dpinzow : 9/9/2014 1:32 pm : link
In comment 11851974 djm said:
Quote:
Is Eli Manning. When the offense is capable, Eli delivers. Time and time again.

Trading Eli for stupid fucking draft picks is crazy. The offense isn't far away from being fixed. A WR here, a OL there and it could turn around real quick. Trade Eli and this offense is years away from contending.

Keep adding talent to the offense. Right now you have Eli, Cruz, Pugh, Walton, Richburg and maybe Donnell...and that's about it. MAybe one of Randle and Jernigan emerge as a decent 2-3 WR...hopefully Beckum shows legit WR potential before the end of the year.

Add talent. Don't trade it away unless the offer for Eli is so good it's impossible to pass it up. We better be getting a king's ransom for Eli. I have news for you all, we won't.


Yes, unless we get two 1st rounders for Eli at a minimum you don't do it. Remember Carson Palmer of all people commanded two 1sts and he doesn't have anything close to Eli's resume
How would YOU fix this team?  
snumber6 : 9/9/2014 1:33 pm : link
I guess the choices are castration or vasectomy ...
RE: We might have to come to the realization  
dpinzow : 9/9/2014 1:45 pm : link
In comment 11851818 dep026 said:
Quote:
that this maybe Eli's last year. I would let him play next year too, but after that, who knows?

I want us to draft nothing but OL/DL for the next 2 years. Load up on those fronts. Even though we have a glaring need at WR, our lines are so putrid right now. When Nassib or whoever takes over, I want an established, dominant line in front of them so we dont see shit shows like we have the last two years.


If the Giants think Eli's run his course here then here are the courses of action near the top of the draft.

1. Trade Eli to Houston for 2 1st rounders, then trade them up to draft Winston or Mariota if we are not in position to draft one of them. As important as the OL is you have to start with another franchise QB first because the way the NFL is constructed, it's impossible to win without that top QB.

2. Trade Eli for the 1st rounders, draft OL/DL with those picks, and give Nassib a year. We'll probably be bad again in 2015 and we might have enough ammo in 2016 to trade up to get Hackenberg.

3. Keep Eli for one more year, draft OL/WR/DL with the top three picks in 2015, and let him play out the contract. Then see where you stand for the 2016 draft and if you're in a position to draft Hackenberg, do so. if not, hope that Connor Cook or Kessler develops into a good NFL prospect and draft one of them to compete with Nassib
Bobby Epps  
SB : 9/9/2014 1:45 pm : link
Great post.
You're not going to get a first rounder for Eli  
jeff57 : 9/9/2014 1:47 pm : link
He'd have to drastically improve his play.
By not overreacting to the first game.  
tomjgiant : 9/9/2014 1:48 pm : link
Keep coaching and making adjustments to what they see on tape.
Play the season and make personel decisions as we go along.
After the season ,assess the entire roster,resign players we want to keep ,sign players in free agency,and draft players to build this team.
Just like every year.
Here's one solution...  
bceagle05 : 9/9/2014 1:49 pm : link
RE: You're not going to get a first rounder for Eli  
dpinzow : 9/9/2014 1:50 pm : link
In comment 11852059 jeff57 said:
Quote:
He'd have to drastically improve his play.


A broken down Carson Palmer fetched 2 first rounders and he was never as good as Eli. Established QBs are the most valuable commodities in the league
Sadly, Al Davis is no longer with us...  
SB : 9/9/2014 1:53 pm : link
to make stupid trades like that anymore.
Making  
phil in arizona : 9/9/2014 1:54 pm : link
10+ major changes to the roster/coaching staff mid season isn't going to help.
the RBs are not dreadful  
djm : 9/9/2014 1:56 pm : link
but when you add it up the WRs, TEs and RBs--the sum of them all = dreadful.

WE could use upgrades across the board. Every position on offense needs help and that includes RB. Even if this team rattled off 10 straight wins, they won't, but if they did, i'd still consider adding a RB in the offseason.

As far as 2014 goes, the solutions obviously have to come from within  
Go Terps : 9/9/2014 1:57 pm : link
If I had to point to one guy that needs to step up for 2014 more than anyone it's Randle. I think between this year and last we are seeing how crucial Nicks was to the offense.

Beyond 2014, I think getting a legit #1 WR is the top priority.
agreed about Randle  
djm : 9/9/2014 2:02 pm : link
and/or Jernigan...and of course Beckham.

This offense needs a HR hitter in the worst way. I still wish we signed JAmes jones in the offseason
RE: RE: You're not going to get a first rounder for Eli  
jeff57 : 9/9/2014 2:02 pm : link
In comment 11852071 dpinzow said:
Quote:
In comment 11852059 jeff57 said:


Quote:


He'd have to drastically improve his play.



A broken down Carson Palmer fetched 2 first rounders and he was never as good as Eli. Established QBs are the most valuable commodities in the league


Palmer was 2 years younger, and had QB rating of 82.4 compared to Manning's 69.4. Plus he didn't have as big a contract as Manning. And they got a 1 and a 2.
RE: I asume you mean fix the team NOW.  
AcidTest : 9/9/2014 2:04 pm : link
In comment 11851973 Bobby Epps said:
Quote:
I don't think you can do much more than tinker at the margins but here goes:

Start Corey Washington over JJ. JJ's too short and too lacking in talent to be a starter. In fact, if there's a promising WR on someone else's PS, release JJ and sign that WR. IMO there are lots of players on varios PS like JJ.

Start Demps or Berhe over Stevie Brown. Brown is too slow, misses tackles and seems to be frequently out of position.

Start Kennard over Jacquian Williams. Williams is not a 3-down LB but should only be in there on passing downs.

Drop Fells and sign a TE from someone else's PS. If that player doesn't work out, then sign another PS TE until you find one who has potential. I don't believe Fells has any potential and if he's not starting at his age and experience, then release him.

Release Charles Brown, James Brewer and Dallas Reynolds and sign OL from other team's PS until we find 3 OL with potential. Brown and Brewer are terrible and Reynolds, at 30 years old, is not getting better. Seahawks just signed Andrew McDonald OT from the Panther PS, for example.

Move Pugh to LT to protect Eli's blind side, which is where Pugh played in college and play John Jerry or Adam Snyder at RT, a position each has played in the past.

Start Kuhn or Bromley over Patterson. Make Patterson Inactive and rotate Kuhn and Bromley in and out.

Activate Kerry Wynn and de-activate Herzlich. Rotate Wynn at DE with JPP, Kiwi, Moore and Ayers. Herzlich really playing only on STs.

When Schwartz comes back, put him at RG , which is where he played so well last year.

Demote Perry Futile from DC and promote someone, anyone from the current coaching staff.

Stop the zone defenses and play man coverage. Stop 3 man pass rushes.

Stop fooling around with Eli's footwork. Let him use the footwork that won 2 SBs.


Excellent. But nobody is demoting Fewell.
First,  
oldog : 9/9/2014 2:10 pm : link
wait to see if its really broke, if it aint....
very short term  
alligatorpie : 9/9/2014 2:16 pm : link
run 2 tight ends with jernigan, cruz and jennings,

(donnel and fells)

medium term - this year (RR needs more time in practice with manning, etc, more work, tweak routes blend and practice practice practice)

long term - get a less high shootin GM, (build the line in draft) run my modified 46, adjust the roster money imbalance.
Bobby Epps  
GeofromNJ : 9/9/2014 2:20 pm : link
All great suggestions, and all are doable, including one of the most important - "Demote Perry Fewell from DC and promote someone from the current coaching staff." Demoting Fewell is certainly doable. It's been done before and I think Mara is in a position to coax Coughlin into the making the change.
I dont think  
Fish : 9/9/2014 2:26 pm : link
trading Eli is a good move but a team like the Rams become an instant contender with Eli at QB. Right now the Rams season is in bigger trouble than ours.
Now that we're in season  
sjnyfan : 9/9/2014 2:30 pm : link
there's not too much you can do, but with this existing roster I'd:

Start Kennard over Williams and Ayers over Kiwi immediately.

Let the defense play man coverage. The entire fan base has been calling for this since PF's arrival. Not to mention it's what our DB's do best.

Play more no huddle which is when Eli is at his best and pray that this offense starts to gel in any way shape or form.

No matter what happens this year however two things I really want the most is Marc Ross (Jerry Reese's BIGGEST mistake) fired and Fewell replaced with a more aggressive DC.

I would continue drafting OL and bring in BIG wrs  
ANGPASS : 9/9/2014 2:41 pm : link
but the problem is. they are going to be losing guys like JPP, Rolle, Prince, Jenkins, possibly Eli before this team gets its shit together. i don't know how this team is going to contend with this horrific OL. Eli have tiny wrs. randle is avg. We need a 6'4" guy outside at least.

For this year, i would play washington over jernigan. if he does well then i would try to see how OBJ washington and cruz do in 3 wr sets. but i would do this if they go 0-3. can't jump the gun after one game.
For all of you who want to trade Eli, I don't understand  
Bobby Epps : 9/9/2014 2:42 pm : link
how that would help the Giants NOW.

Plus Nassib becomes the starting QB. Suppose he's no good; it doesn't appear that he's ready yet. Suppose Nassib gets hurt- then what?

IMO trading Eli is not the answer. If we had a good OL, good TEs, good WRs and RBs with better speed and Eli was performing badly, then I'd say let's trade him. But with a crappy OL, terrible TEs, average WRs and RBs with good speed, I don't think Eli is the biggest problem we have- in fact, Cruz and he are the only good, proven players on offense that we have. Why would you want to subtract one (Eli) by trading him?
Point in trading him is not to help the team now  
jeff57 : 9/9/2014 2:45 pm : link
but start to fix the team for the future. They have to find out what they have in Nassib in order to decide whether to draft another QB. And who knows, because of his mobility, they may not lose much now.
I think the reason why  
bigblue1914 : 9/9/2014 2:53 pm : link
Giant fans say trade Eli, because the team looks like its going nowhere.
He only has a few prime years left. We are a start from scratch team. Also tge team looks just like the team that started last season 0-6 and fans see the epic bad season coming.
.  
arcarsenal : 9/9/2014 2:58 pm : link
Nassib isn't going to fare a whole lot better behind this line. They pass protect for about a half second before someone breaks free and starts chasing Eli down. Even when Detroit only rushed 4 last night it still happened.

The line is still a fucking mess. Much more than Eli is.
I should have clarified  
phil fromphilly : 9/9/2014 3:05 pm : link
I don't think there is any fix NOW. I am talking about going forward. Steps to move this team forward post 2014. Obviously I think some things need to be addressed now to start down that new path but I don't see any fix for this team right now short of trading away our future for probowl offensive linemen, a legitimate number 1 receiver and a TE that doesn't have a No-Frills label on his back.
It begins and ends on the line on both sides of the ball.  
Victor in CT : 9/9/2014 3:12 pm : link
And while I agree that Eli is going to get beat up for the foreseeable future, I would be reluctant to trade him only because I can't forget how long it took to replace Phil Simms.
Here is what I would do...  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 9/9/2014 3:39 pm : link
1. New GM. Sorry Jerry but the success of the 2007 draft is a distant memory and we have had more bad than good player acquisitions. You have ignored filling some of our deepest holes with quality.
2. Yes, I too would look to trade Eli. Would not even be concerned with what we got in return. To, me this is about unloading the $20 million per year of cap dollars that can be spent elsewhere. It is not because I don't think Eli is a good QB... he is. He just cannot perform under these circumstances and until we have more money to spend on the O-line, we will not see any improvement. UNFORTUNATELY this will never happen because so many Giants fans would revolt.
3. After the disaster we are about to experience this season, draft a QB in this spring. Nassib comes to camp as the starter with the rookie having a chance to also earn the job.
4. Use the Eli cap money to sign some guys to put a stud O-line together. Maybe also sign a DL too.

Whoever we get to play QB will NOT be as good as Eli. However, with a solid O-line we will at least have the ability to run the ball and to give a young QB a chance. Right now, this team is spiraling out of control. Every free agent signing and draft pick that does not produce is putting us deeper and deeper into a hole.

It has to end... or we may wake up and envy the Cleveland fans.
For people eager to trade Eli..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2014 3:46 pm : link
you have to ask yourself. Would a different QB have been able to get wins last year or a win last night with the same supporting cast?

Would a Nassib or a different QB have overcome a 30+ point drubbing in Carolina or get a win in KC where we were pummeled. Would a different QB have somehow been able to tear apart the Lions without any help from the WR's?

If you think so, then trading Eli would be a wise move. On the flip side, if you think so, you have a really shitty time processing what you've seen.
1 Buy out the owners.  
ed90631 : 9/9/2014 3:47 pm : link
2 I dont know Im not a football guy. Im an accountant.
RE: For people eager to trade Eli..  
EricJ (formerly Tyleraimee) : 9/9/2014 3:51 pm : link
In comment 11852320 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
you have to ask yourself. Would a different QB have been able to get wins last year or a win last night with the same supporting cast?

Would a Nassib or a different QB have overcome a 30+ point drubbing in Carolina or get a win in KC where we were pummeled. Would a different QB have somehow been able to tear apart the Lions without any help from the WR's?

If you think so, then trading Eli would be a wise move. On the flip side, if you think so, you have a really shitty time processing what you've seen.


I agree with you 100% which is why my plan above is different. The only other QBs that can succeed with this O line are guys who can seriously do it with their legs. It would keep the defense back on their heels a little and would create a little time. We know that we are not going to get a guy like that in a trade for Eli. So, we need to use the Eli money to change that environment (supporting cast) that you were referring to.
the point is that rebuilding is a helluva lot tougher  
Greg from LI : 9/9/2014 3:54 pm : link
With Eli Manning sucking up such a huge portion of the cap.

Additionally, he'll be 34 next season, and I don't know how anyone can say with any certainty just how good he actually is at this point.
With the current state..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2014 4:00 pm : link
of the team as perceived by the fans, if you trade eli and load up on the line, we are apt to end up like Jax, Washington or Tampa. We'd have a solid line and have either a journeyman or a running QB one hit away from IR.

I think that could actually end up worse than what people think of the team now.

We've seen good eli with mediocre lines and we've seen bad eli with horrendous lines, and frankly, both versions would be better than a McCown, Henne or RGIII.
Take deep breaths. They'll go  
chops : 9/9/2014 4:05 pm : link
2 and 14 this year.

Then act.
Fatman  
JPinstripes : 9/9/2014 4:13 pm : link
If they trade Eli, I would imagine a whole lot of CAP room opens up for FA signings in places of need like the OL. It's not as simple an answer as you are making it out to be.

We are paying All Pro price for a QB that has not played at that level in 18 months, for whatever the reason. The CAP formula needs to be looked at with great attention.
the best fix  
BigBlueCane : 9/9/2014 4:24 pm : link
is to replace Jerry Reese as GM.

How that is done, I don't know. But I'm firmly of the belief that he needs to go.

Once that is done, I think they seriously need to re-think their priorities in the draft. Linemen must take precedence over skill position players for example.

It's very possible to rebuild the team quickly doing this but I agree they have to convince Eli to take some paycuts along the way.
Dallas Has a Great O-Line.  
clatterbuck : 9/9/2014 4:30 pm : link
How is that working for them? The washington team mortgaged their future for RGIII. How's that looking? Let's start signing every other team's rejects like we did in the 60's and 70s because that really worked well, or better, yet trade draft picks for marginally over-the-hill players. Let's fire the head coach and the GM every 2-3 years because that's a sure-fire recipe for success. Let's abandon what got us two championships in seven years and we can become the East Coast version of the Raiders. Hell, let's ship out the team's first franchise QB in a generation -- who can still play -- because panic is always the best course of action.
But the QB is the centerpiece...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2014 4:43 pm : link
for success for most teams. It almost always requires a special person to lead the offense to a title. And those guys don't grow on trees and for the most part their pedigree is all the same - big time college QB drafted or traded very early on by the team they lead to the title.

And when that formula isn't at play and a Trent Dilfer takes the title, you have something extraordinary going on with the defense, like where you start to ask if that defense is the best of all time.

Look at the SB WB's recently. both Mannings, Big Ben, Brees, Brady, even Flacco fits the mold. Wilson really doesn't, but again - that seattle D was devastatingly good.
Left tackle.  
Ira : 9/9/2014 4:53 pm : link
We need one desperately.
Bobby Epps  
prdave73 : 9/9/2014 4:55 pm : link
Great suggestions.. Agree.

There's only one problem, the one guy who can possibly make all that happen is also a part of the reason the Giants are in this huge mess.. I just don't see Coughlin making changes or taking chances, but who knows at this state.
OL  
stretch234 : 9/9/2014 4:56 pm : link
Here is what is hilarious. Listed are the next OL taken after the Giants pick

If Reese passed on Nicks and took next OL picked - Ebon Britton - terrible

If he passed on Beatty - next OL was Robert Brewster - 1 career game

If he passed on Barden - next OL taken John Luigs - 8 career games

Pass on Linjo - next OL is Vlad Ducasse

pass on C. jones - next is JD Walton

pass on Prince - Anthony Costanzo

pass on Austin - Rod Hudson

pass on Jernigan - Jah Reid

pass on Wilson - Mitchel Schwartz

pass on R. Randle - Josh LeRibeus

pass on Jayron Holsey - Tony Bergstrom

You know what is lacking here - good players, guys who can play T - none who are LT.

Keep hearing about Unger - they Giants were not going to draft a C when Ohara was coming off a pro bowl season

The only guy taken who is playing LT is Glenn and 40 picks were used ahead of him because no one thought he could play LT in the NFL
Yes LT a huge must right now..  
prdave73 : 9/9/2014 4:59 pm : link
Beatty just cant do it. LT is very important right now for Eli's sake. I say take the chance with Pugh at LT and see if that helps for now.
Agreed that QB can be the centerpiece  
JPinstripes : 9/9/2014 5:02 pm : link
But the QB has to play at an all pro level to command 1/6 of the teams salary cap and Eli has not for a log time, hence the holes all over the roster.

Brady plays at an all pro level year in and year out. As does Peyton and Brees and no one knows any of the aforementioned respective teams starting O linemen.

I don't know, I love Eli, but until a coach allows him to play the game like Eli excels at, this is going nowhere. Eli is not a west coast O QB.

Peyton went to Denver and said this is how I run my offense and this is what I want to do. Eli historically performs best in the shotgun formation, 2 minute drill, slinging the ball around. Not happening here under the new WC OC. Maybe best to for both player and team to move separate ways, especially since the QB cost 20m per year.
This isn't...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2014 5:03 pm : link
a West coast offense.
Perhaps its mid west???  
JPinstripes : 9/9/2014 5:09 pm : link
Are you in the huddle? Do you know something that the average Giants fan does not know? Did the new OC tell you something that he did not tell anyone else? He has a WC history, nothing more.

Conversation finished, waste of my time to get a reply like that.
I'm not in the huddle...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/9/2014 5:14 pm : link
but it isn't the West coast offense. Not liking my reply isn't going to make your assertion that it is the west coast offense any more correct.

Revel in your ignorance. Fine by me.
I don't have a clue how to fix it I'm a dumb fan  
Headhunter : 9/9/2014 5:19 pm : link
what I would like to see is the same players do their jobs with passion. You are asked to go all out for 60 minutes. So figure that's 25 minutes of Offense 25 minutes of Defense and 10 minutes of Special Teams. I don't expect them to play better than their skill set , but is it too much to ask them to play as LT so eloquently put it "like crazed dogs""?" Is that asking too much?
There's  
BigBlueCane : 9/9/2014 5:20 pm : link
no way of predicting that a player who was drafted by one team will have the same level of success (or lack thereof) playing for a different team.

The Giants NEEDED to start addressing and planning for their future along the OL back in 2007. The fact that they kept whiffing on players like Guy Whimper should have sent off warning bells in Reese's head far before last year.
What remains to be seen  
kepler20 : 9/9/2014 5:33 pm : link
Is whether or not we're going to have a successful season.

I can only hope that if we can learn one thing from our mistakes last year that it would be that we don't ride out the storm. Tom needs to go if we are sitting at week 11 3-7 again.
Playing Pugh at LT is key  
Remdad : 9/9/2014 5:48 pm : link
Even though it isn't really a fix for the OL this year.

But you need to come out of the season knowing whether he can do it. If he can, your OL rebuild becomes a lot easier since RT are much easier to find than LT. If he can’t then you need an LT, since I am assuming that Beatty is not the answer.

Yes, Beatty is not especially well suited to RT, but he’s not exactly tearing it up at LT either, and he’s probably a better RT than Brown or Brewer.

I would do this after the bye so there is time to prepare.
The Trenches  
Frank from CA : 9/9/2014 5:51 pm : link
It is football 101 that the team's success and health of its quarterback is dictated by the personnel of the lines. Eli took a beating in the NFC Championship victory against SF. That should have been a sobering event for the front office. It was for me. Eli took a beating and still did his part and more that playoff run. How was improving the offensive line so lightly attended from that point on?


I realize that there is a risk in any move you make in regards to personnel. The injuries to veterans and chances taken on project linemen have not panned out. There should be a leadership turnover this off season which will require coaches and FO people to take more seriously the O and D lines. Maybe the scouting needs improvement with the hiring of scouts who are more knowledgeable about Linemen.

A good to Great Defensive line is the foundation of a robust balanced defense. A good to Great Offensive line allows you to pass and run, depend less on gimmicks, in addition to keeping your twice Super Bowl Winning QB upright. I hope its not too late to make another run in the next few years since we have an experienced QB.

the rest of us should follow Jerry in DC's advice from the other thread and see who's worthy of keeping as an exercise in sanity.

try to enjoy this NFL season fellas...

Captain Obvious...over and out......
Since the season isn't over  
giantgiantfan : 9/9/2014 6:23 pm : link
here's what I would do on offense. Keep installing the offense and fixing mistakes that occurred in game 1. This won't fix this teams glaring offensive weaknesses though, but it will at least make them better. To deal with the weaknesses you have to look for short passes to the running back, tight end, hook patterns, out routes etc... I'd make the running the #2 or #3 look on a pass play anytime he's in there. You can't have confidence in the line or receiver play until they give you a reason. Right now I do have confidence in short passes to Jennings and Donnell. Let Donnell make some contact after the catch and stumble forward for another yard or two and let Jennings hopefully bust one out like he did on the 21 yarder yesterday. The other thing I'd look at is if Jernigan continues to show nothing, but Corey Washington in as the X. Use his height to your advantage on quick passes. Last, use your FB in the running game.

On defense there needs to be more man coverage with safeties providing backup coverage over the top. That cover-2 defense was exploited last night.
Instead of changing a whole team  
Howyadoin : 9/9/2014 7:10 pm : link
To a completely new offense just for the sake of one coordinator. I would go with maybe a hybrid offense. The best of both worlds. Have both sides bend a little and customize something that everyone feels comfortable with. Everyone just looked SO lost...including the coach.
LT  
stretch234 : 9/9/2014 8:10 pm : link
Beatty is not the issue - the immediate pressure is coming right up the gut. Unless Walton fixes that, it makes zero difference on the outside. Can they please gain more than a 1/2 yard on running plays.

They cant survive in 3rd and 9 or more
i would trade  
msh : 9/9/2014 8:33 pm : link
i would try and work out a trade for 2 OL pref an OT and an OG
now if they can fix the line eli can find the Wr he has now and the RB they have can move the ball better giving them a shot to turn things around with the new scheme

beatty was bad but i agree walton and terry were just as bad if not worse alot of the worst blocking came up the centre of the line on delayed blitz's these were squarely on walton

richberg,pugh and maybe schwartz are the basis of a serviceable OL but beatty is a liability,walton,terry and brewer arent upto the job either they need an OT to replace beatty,(or pugh and move pugh over to LT) and an OG to take over richbergs spot to allow him to move to centre

as for the defence thats the same old miscommunication issues that have plaqued the giants throughout fewells tenure,i dont like these hand off plays,i would rather they keep on their guy from snap to whistle

allowing megatron to run unchallenged through the secondry is suicide even the worst WR can score when they are that open and in the case of a guy like megatron you want to double cover him to ensure he NEVER gets that open

i can take a WR making a play to beat your DB i cant accept a guy left 30 yds of space to walk in for an easy score it just fires up the opposing team and demoralises your own players and MUST NOT happen again but it does and still is
I'd try different line combinations until I found offensive linemen I  
PetesHereNow : 9/9/2014 9:13 pm : link
can work with. Time to find out if we have 5 NFL average or better linemen on this team. My first combination would be Beatty LT, Richburg LG, Walton C, Mosley RG, Pugh RT. Use Hynoski as the H-back/TE. At least, you know he'll block someone.
Maybe Eli trade not bad idea  
Njjc5646 : 9/9/2014 10:44 pm : link
Eli is a huge cap hit to come, if rebuilding line may as well look at young Nassib.find some weapons forva west coast offense in wr. If gmen can get something good for Eli , why not. Need a new def cord, should try to look now , not sure what nfl rules are about talking to canidates but why go through the pain of another bad year if you want fewell gone now and try to change what's happening now
Where is incognito? If he is available bring in
Some thoughts  
PEEJ : 9/9/2014 11:46 pm : link
1) Use the FB. No reason to have both JJ and RR on the field. Run power

2) Play more man coverage and send blitzes

3) Pass more to RB . swings and screens
RE: fix  
dcable : 9/10/2014 9:10 am : link
In comment 11851744 TimsGiants said:
Quote:
Start with promoting Washington and Parker over Randle and Jernigen. They have to be better...


Toally agree
Back to the Corner