Where is your perspective? What is your perspective? We have a franchise, that unlike most others, has brought you much more joy than sorrow..We have been blessed with a future HOF Coach, franchise, possible/probable HOF QB and a very good Gm. All three have FLAWS, but all three have done solid to terrific work, imv.
NO ONE has won more Super Bowls than we have in the last 7 years. We have been to 5 SBs in 28 years or an average of 1 SB appearance every 5 1/2 years..Who's AVERAGE is better than that? I daresay not too many, if any..
I know, I know, "what have you done for me lately." I get that mindset. I've certainly carried that for much of my sports life. It's the nature of the sports fan. So I get that..
I won't go into the "patience" mantra that I have expressed on here ad infinitum, ad nauseum. But what else can we do?
A bunch wanted Gilbride gone. He is.
We hired a young and by all accounts aggressive and smart OC..Many here(myself included) were excited by the hire. Somehow, somewhere, lost in that enthusiasm, was the reality that he had never called plays before, but most here didn't seem to mind, until he called his first ever game in ernest. It was not pretty. Now that the hire is no longer fresh in our minds, the analysis of the guy has begun. Don't you think, in your heart of hearts, he gets the full season to show what he has, or doesn't have?
Now for Reese. Some good stuff has been posted by fans vis a vis the success of our picks vs other teams' successes during his time here. Extrapolate that any way you want. I'm not going to offer anything new in that regard. But I will offer this: Reese has screwed the pooch at times, no question..He has also owned his screw-ups quite well, imo. We all remember when he effectively left us high and dry at the Safety position in 2009. He admitted so and rectified it the following year.
The OL he had, brought us two SBs without a real star to bank on, save for Snee..They got old and most importantly injured. He made some nice depth OL signings. Do you recall this or are you too blinded by your pissies to remember? No one could predict that these solid backups would all get injured as well.
Last year's line was dreadful, no need to re-visit. So, he drafted Pugh last year, Richburg this year and signed a FA OL that most here were delighted with in Schwartz. A guy who is still in his prime. He got hurt and is gone for about half the season(until he gets into football shape)..We signed Walton who was the best C out there albeit he missed a few years..Beatty when healthy has been satisfactory. Right now he's getting his football legs back. At the time we extended him, MANY here were delighted with the dollars spent given what was projected as his upside AT THE TIME. We will see on that. Many here are relatively high on Mosley, but he just can't seem to see the field..Jerry and Brown are depth. They were not brought in to start. So he HAS addressed the OL and should continue to address it..You can't address every weakness all at once..
His drafting of ODB was the right choice imo. Just looking at the state of our WRs at present would seem to validate the reason behind the pick..Seeing the field of course would help and if he really is the goods, boy does that open up everything for Eli moving forward..
So, continue the hate for Reese if you choose to, but I choose to view his overall body of work as pretty darn good INCLUDING FA and I'm waiting to see how this draft works out for him as time goes on.. He can't be faulted for the injuries that have plagued some of our key picks and FA signings. Can he be faulted for JPP post 2011? David Wilson? Nicks? Will Hill? Steve Smith? Kenny Phillips? And so on..
Finally Coughlin..He's really, really, really going to be missed around here when he leaves and that might be sooner rather than later..Judge him as you must.
I said a few weeks ago, that I was done commenting on Eli until the season was well under way. I will say just one thing about Eli in case you missed it. Parcells was asked about Eli recently and his response was, "Eli won me over for life after that beating he took against the Niners in that championship game. He just kept getting up."
I want to address just one more thing on a "personal" note. Around here as you all know, once you get a rep, it sticks whether accurate or not. My rep is that I view everything through rose-colored glasses, or I'm a homer or, "is there anything about the Giants you don't endorse?"
The facts are these, not that it will make much of a difference: From 1964-1980, there wasn't a day that went by that I didn't bitch to my Dad about how incompetent Mara was as GM(despite his obvious deep love for his team), how lousy his HC choices were after Sherman was canned, how his loyalty to players far past his prime helped to keep this a stuck franchise..There was no internet or social media then. All we had were newspapers that wrote nothing but fluff pieces..So, our venting took the form of complaining and bitching to other diehards in and out of the stadium..
Okay, that doesn't really concern you and certainly cannot be proven. But for the veterans on here who may have forgotten and the Newbies on here who were not around when it occurred, I was absolutely brutal and unrelenting towards the regime of Fassel and Accorsi. I hated them(not personally) and I said so almost every day in the form of incessant posts or thread starts. Yes, I was over the top, but I had little respect for both..Far from a homer for this franchise.
Now, it's the opposite. I see this as a team that had "a plan" and the two SBs bought them lifetime equity with ME..Yes they have had their share of screw-ups, but because of the equity and trust they've built up with me, I let it slide and prefer to look at the bigger picture..
I am as dismayed as you guys are with last night's performance, or lack thereof..The major difference I have with some here is that this is NOT the same as last year. How can it be if we have overturned about 40% (?) of our roster. A lot is new. I can't afford not to be patient with this team because no matter how much angst I feel from game to game, it's still, 'wait for it, wait for it,' a work in progress. It really is gonna take time. Hopefully not too much time as I certainly want to win this division or at the very least get "Eli" into the playoffs..
If this works out exactly as many here assert, that is, it's a lost year, then so be it..And btw and in truth, I am as sick as you are about this loss last night. It's been with me all day. But I believe this will straighten out. I believe this because of the extremely high esteem I hold for this regime. It's loyalty, not homerism..
But we need to go 3-3 instead of 0-6 while we "straighten it out." Last night's team looked like it would be lucky to win a game over the next 6 weeks. I don't mind treading water and gearing for a Wild Card run (and perhaps more). I think it's a possibility.
But BB'56, there's no escaping it. The team has been bad for 1.5 years. The year before that, they won the Super Bowl with a 9-7 record and was the worst team to ever win a Super Bowl. This is mostly indisputable. Danny Kanell (the poster) got ripped on for his thread that underscored Romo overthrowing Austin, but there is a hell of a lot of truth to his point. There is plenty of reason to believe this is a 6-10 football team.
The NFL's nature allows me to have hope, and it's totally justified, but that hope comes from the way the NFL is now and not from anything the Giants have showed me in a long time.
Oh, so there actually IS a silver lining to the team playing like garbage? Score!
I think reality is somewhere in the middle of all of these discussions. We all know the o-line is the key to what woes the Giants at the moment. It's making EVERYONE look bad. However, Eli's play over the last few years has raised legitimate concerns for the future. I for one share your eternal gratitude for 2007 and 2011 but I would be much more forgiving if I didn't think this team was in serious trouble for the future. However, since this is just football and any one of us can be wrong we'll just have to wait and see how it all shakes out. Maybe the o-line gels and we're all laughing in a couple of weeks about how it all came together.
I am also, maybe because if remember 66 to 80, one of those fans that considers it a successful season if the Giants are playing meaningful games, and being competitive in December.
I do not frequent BBI or contribute nearly as much as I used to, for many of the reasons you state.
Eric constructed an excellent place in its time. you can get just as much information if not more without the hassle elsewhere today I am very sad to say.
The saddest part is that none of this current mess had to happen.
Some of us saw it coming quite a long ways back when the error of under-investing in Safeties morphed into under-investing in the O linemen who make the offense go. And that's just the beginning.
It's not going to be fixed easily or quickly, either.
I'm still not entirely sure why it did happen, but somebody somewhere high up in the GIANTS front office definitely does not have their head on straight, and since there haven't been any visible changes, I must assume that nothing has changed there. That's likely a real problem going forward.
Reese has really screwed the pooch with his awful drafting, sometimes questionable FA moves (both own players and guys brought in from elsewhere), and specifically with trying to "left hand" the OL over the last few seasons while he pissed away draft choice after draft choice on guys who looked like Tarzan but played like Jane with a brain cramp and casts on both legs. It didn't work and the resulting disaster is not going to be fixed overnight. Hopefully Eli will survive without injury, but they are unnecessarily playing with fire.
What I will say is that the 2013 and 2014 drafts do give me some hope for the future, so maybe things have started to turn around. Maybe.
And that's not the only issue, either. Coaching in all three phases of the game is pretty suspect, too. Things get stale. Changes are needed, and Gilbride was just the start.
There is nothing more of significance that can be done this season except to try to develop the young players that they have brought in during the last two or three seasons.
But I think ownership needs to examine this organization from the General Manager down to the Practice Squad players in great detail. Many more changes are needed.
This place has been over the top with normally even-keeled posters bringing the hysterics.
Seriously, what did you guys expect? The home teams won 10 of the 16 openers, Stafford was unconscious last night (the second td to Megatron was an insane throw), our qb is on the backside of his career, the o-line has played about 15 plays as a unit and it's a brand-new offense even down to the method of calling audibles. To win as the away team in a home opener, you either have to play a team with no qb or the home team plays very badly like the Ravens and the Cowboys did. The Lions don't fit in either category.
Remember, you are never as good as you look when you win and never as bad as you look when you lose.
We will improve and if Beckham gets healthy and the line improves,we should be better around the bye.
I'll root like hell on Sunday and hope for the best, after all what else can a fan do.
think the Maras (and Tisch) of today are a lot less tolerant of poor play than Wellington, his dad and his uncle.
I thought it was the losing taking place the last few years, but I realize, it's the non-competitive losing...what team can play so many games over a relatively short span of time and we could have turned games off at half-time?
I am 58 years old, I used to go to Yankee Stadium with my dad to see those lousy teams...Yale Bowl trip every Sunday, Shea Stadium while our place was being built....the joy from those Super Bowls was euphoria for all of us, but for me it does not soften the blow of these blow-outs
2 SBs only buy you so many Buffalo Bill's like seasons, especially the turn the game off at halftime losses they've suffered through.
I love how excited everyone gets for a new OC and this and that and everyone understands it's gonna be a work in progress then the bullets start flying and guys are outraged they aren't a finished product week 1
we do not need to luck out and get a superstar - haven't had one of those in a while
In the meantime, I have the joy of having seen 4 NYG SB wins in my lifetime. I'm sure alot of other team's fans would love to claim that.
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They will drive long time fans like us away from here. You can be critical because they deserve severe criticism. It's the hysteria that is going to send me packing. I lived through that 16 year period were it was a lot worse than this and I cared a lot more about the team and each game. If it were a couple of loose canons no big deal, but in order to read criticism you have to read a lot of hysterics and I'm too old for this bullshit quite frankly
Oh, so there actually IS a silver lining to the team playing like garbage? Score!
Ouch, at first I thought Greg's remarks were brutal,until I remembered that "you only hurt the ones you love" and "you're going to miss us when when we're gone".
See, we took your best shot.
BB'56 that was a great post; using both rational thought and perspective. But that of course violates some rule that we old timers haven't yet absorbed.
We clearly need to replace some personnel, and on top of it are installing a new system...and we certainly may lack the correct personnel for that task. This is a work in progress, and while that doesn't make us feel good, it's necessary and is what it is. No matter how much handwringing, this won't be fixed or click overnight. I just hope they win on 9/21 when I drive up from Maryland to see the game at MetLife!
Thanks again for the post and your perspective is appreciated.
You will have to start filtering out the football post and only read NFT's to keep with the Mets threads. Who thought that they would be the more positive of the two LOL
My two cents is that this franchise saw the Superbowl at Metlife as an opportunity. They made some assumptions that the Oline would hold up. (reasonable assumption given that offensive linemen can play a while). They went out and drafted DB's, WR's and a running back. All in an effort to put playmakers on the field.
Unfortunately, the playmakers have not played as hoped. Wilson was a terrible pick and the players they hoped would last (Baas, Snee) did not. Nicks is gone and this team has some big holes in it as a result.
I actually think Reese's drafts have been OK. It's his luck that has been horrible.
You will never, ever get a reasoned response to these questions.
Thank you.
A skillful player personnel department, led by whomever, can restock the talent in two or three years.
Until then I have my DVDs of past glory. I recently watched the 2007 Divisional game against the Cowboys, with the Dallas radio announcers calling the game. "You know, coming in this morning I have to admit that I just didn't think that the Giants could play with this Dallas team."
The Giants are a bad team and have been for a couple of years now through fault of their own. Its ok to be pissed at them.
Since a Super Bowl title is wedged in between those non playoff years, you really can't call that stretch anything other than a success, because a Super Bowl title every 5 years is an amazing result. But there should be more consistency in the other years, and that's why TC and JR aren't bulletproof like a FO/coaching staff should be after winning 2 titles in 7 years.
The Giants have ultimately had incredible success because you don't get trophies for making the playoffs, or having a consistently good team, or finishing the regular season at the top of the conference most years. Most people don't remember who went 12-4 and lost in the divisional round, they remember who won the Super Bowl. So from that perspective, JR, TC and the rest have had massive success. But the sustainability of that success and consistency from the franchise has been lacking, and that makes what should be a bulletproof front office/coaching staff under a more consistent team mortal.
I loved the McAdoo hire and I like the defense, so I'm not going to write off this year just yet, but the talent on offense looks pretty bad. I just hope they give McAdoo a real chance before giving up on him. I believe in the scheme.
Then Allie got run out of town and we were in for almost 20 years of dreadful football. I remember how I would watch the games and be excited for Mendenhall making a sack. Hell I think we were lucky that home games weren't on TV.
Like you I am a cockeyed optimist so I have not given up on this years team yet. I was in Fed Ex when we turned our season around and that was the third game.
I can be critical of them and some of their moves/play but I am so proud of them also. I guess I am just an old fogey but I love it that Tommy C. does interviews in a suit and tie. That the GMen wear suits at away games.
Go Giants!!
I enjoy spending money on the Giants even when they suck and lose, but it seems most here expect more. I don't think its reasonable either. Maybe they should go elsewhere, because they really don't have anything here right now.
Then Allie got run out of town and we were in for almost 20 years of dreadful football. I remember how I would watch the games and be excited for Mendenhall making a sack. Hell I think we were lucky that home games weren't on TV.
Like you I am a cockeyed optimist so I have not given up on this years team yet. I was in Fed Ex when we turned our season around and that was the third game.
I can be critical of them and some of their moves/play but I am so proud of them also. I guess I am just an old fogey but I love it that Tommy C. does interviews in a suit and tie. That the GMen wear suits at away games.
Go Giants!!
For one game, there's ALOT to be critical of and pissed at, that's why I said,
You mentioned Sherman, which caused a synapse that you might remember if you were at the Stadium that day. It was 1968 and the Colts, led by Morrall(Unitas was injured and done until his appearance against the Jets in the SB) came into Yankee Stadium and diced us pretty good. I recall with such clarity, a Giants fan in the Bleachers, raising a sign which said, "Earl wasn't good enough for Allie." Ahh the memories, even the bad ones..:)
Fan since 1964. Die hard. Nothing can keep me away. Lived through The Fumble and have been rewarded for my undying loyalty four times.
Having been so rewarded, I don't let these bumps in a very long road upset me any more. I watch with amusement rather than passion, these days.
GOOOOO GIANTS!!!
Eli, at his best, approached HOF status. At this point, I don't think he's going to get in. He doesn't deserve the vitriol he's getting now, but let's face it, there is no sign that we shouldn't be planning on moving on.
Coughlin, like Eli, is a guy whose best days are behind him. The last SB run was a magical streak, and one certainly can't dismiss it, but I have little faith that Coughlin and his staff can get us back there. What is it, 4 out of the last 5 years missing the playoffs? That's not the sign of very good to great GM,HC,QB combo.
The two SB rings are fantastic, but this regime has also brought us a lot of mediocre, and worse, football. And, the overall trend during this regime is downward.
The couple of good-great years should spare the team the horrendous vitriol being spewed, but at the same time, it's perfectly understandable to be down on the regime and lack faith in their ability to bring us doubters back to optimism. At this point, we're just another team, hanging out in the bottom half of the pack, and no sense that we're going to make any serious move to move up.
Fan since 1964. Die hard. Nothing can keep me away. Lived through The Fumble and have been rewarded for my undying loyalty four times.
Having been so rewarded, I don't let these bumps in a very long road upset me any more. I watch with amusement rather than passion, these days.
GOOOOO GIANTS!!!
You poor thing. Your first year was the initial descent of this franchise. I was lucky and spoiled(like many fans today?). My first year was 1956. From that year to and including 1963, the Giants were in 6 out of 8 championship games, winning one(could easily have won two more, but that's another gut-wrenching story)..I was a little cocky. Expected it to go on forever. Little did I know..:)
He replaced Lombardi as offensive coordinator and ended up losing to him twice in championship game.
The game I was at was in I believe 1962 and we killed the Cowboys. YA had either 5 or 6 TD passes
The suffering was well worth it.
He replaced Lombardi as offensive coordinator and ended up losing to him twice in championship game.
The game I was at was in I believe 1962 and we killed the Cowboys. YA had either 5 or 6 TD passes
That Tittle could throw 36 and 33 TD passes(eclipsing records and in 14 games) in successful years in that era of much less throwing, was astounding, then and in retrospect
The suffering was well worth it.
I have been a fan since as far back as my memory goes since my dad was a die hard fan and my earliest memories start from the same era as you being a fan. So most of the first twenty years that I followed them they were an awful football team. So like you I and as I mentioned earlier in the thread I appreciate what a coach like Coughlin and a QB like Eli has done for this team. I just think many young fans don't have enough understanding of what true downtimes can be like to truly appreciate what they have given us. For many it is taken for granted. And this isn't really a knock on anyone, they only know things from their perspective but it reminds me of the old saying. Be careful for what you wish for.
My hope is that the management will soon recognize this and continue to bring in new talent in this area as TC hinted to in his presser.
But if we are stuck with this set of players it will be a very long sad season for us all.
This team should be better than 2013 and we'll find out over the next 16 weeks if the needle is pointing up or not.
"Next year" comes around once in a while. ;)
"Next year" comes around once in a while. ;)
5 times in 28 years. Not too shabby..:)
He held on to returning staff way too long (Snee/Diehl). His big ticket FA (Forgot his name/Schwartz) failed, or have shown no hope for optimism (to be fair, still early for Schwartz). Of his drafted players, we have hope for Pugh, too early to tell on Richburg (but hopeful), and then a whole lot of nothing.
Reese hasn't ignored the OL. He's just been incompetent at it. Is it all on Reese? Or does our OL coach share some blame, and Coughlin? Collectively, the Giants braintrust has been laying Giant goose eggs.
Thank you for a reasonable perspective, so early in the new season with a team with so many new moving parts.
It's definitely only one game and it's important to keep that in mind. But a lot of the same exact warning signs from last year popped right back up. The turnovers, the miscommunications, the overall ineptness. It's not something that gives you a good feeling about the way this year will go.
We desperately need to win on Sunday. Things are going to get ugly fast if we don't get this first win very soon.
It's definitely only one game and it's important to keep that in mind. But a lot of the same exact warning signs from last year popped right back up. The turnovers, the miscommunications, the overall ineptness. It's not something that gives you a good feeling about the way this year will go.
Precisely.
The entire TC tenure has been pockmarked by some brutally ugly performances and maddening inconsistency, with the two SB runs were completely out of character for his NYG teams.
What is plain to me is the trend continues under the same regime.
It's definitely only one game and it's important to keep that in mind. But a lot of the same exact warning signs from last year popped right back up. The turnovers, the miscommunications, the overall ineptness. It's not something that gives you a good feeling about the way this year will go.
We desperately need to win on Sunday. Things are going to get ugly fast if we don't get this first win very soon.
Well, if you think this win comes this Sunday, then it's a perfect time to bet on the Giants. One of the lines I saw this morning said Cards by 2...:)
I'm sure as hell not betting on this Giants team, though!
And we have been worse than mediocre for years now (outside of a glorious run in 2011)... why do we think it is going to suddenly improve without significant changes?
Wanting to see my favorite team be relevant and good doesn't mean I do not appreciate the exhilarating moments they have provided us.
And we have been worse than mediocre for years now (outside of a glorious run in 2011)... why do we think it is going to suddenly improve without significant changes?
Wanting to see my favorite team be relevant and good doesn't mean I do not appreciate the exhilarating moments they have provided us.
Can't dispute what you said. However, I'm not sure ANY SB run can be considered an anomaly, imv
The Giants are a bad team and have been for a couple of years now through fault of their own. Its ok to be pissed at them.
Gee, the fan that decided he was a Bulls fan because they won every year is pissed because the Giants are going through a tough stretch. Never would have guessed...
My guess is your bedroom will be loaded with Russell Wilson fat heads and Richard Sherman bobble heads before week 4. I'll bet you'll look marvelous in your Seahawks footsie jammies with the feet cut out and your nasty chest hair sticking out over the zipper on the front