it must of been real tough to get a copy of the video from Security of a major hotel in Atlantic City where there are camera's everywhere 24x7
Probably as hard as getting a sex tape of Kim Kardashian
1) Goodell admits the initial suspension was too light: "You see the first video, the February video (of Rice dragging Janay Palmer out of the elevator), that's difficult and you can obviously see that something has gone very wrong, and that's why we took the steps that we took to discipline him, albeit we obviously said that we didn't get that (punishment) right and said our policies need to be updated from an educational, training and discipline standpoint and that we were going to be doing that and that we were serving notice on that."
2) Rice's suspension is "indefinite", which means that he can be reinstated at the NFL's discretion later on. That actually seems pretty appropriate. I'd like to hear why it isn't appropriate from those who disagree.
3) Goodell obviously thinks Rice and his representatives were being dishonest with him and the NFL, which is at odds (not incompatible, but at odds) with press reports about Rice coming clean and admitting his mistake. I would guess that this lack of honesty is one of the secondary reasons for Rice's indefinite suspension.
I really wish Goodell would stop talking on this matter Â
1.The casino never got a request (which Goodell claims he could not legally ask the Casino for it--don't get that one. He was not a party to the criminal action and the casino is a private organization and could give the tape to whoever they see fit).
2. They obviously knew their was a tape inside the elevator as reporters, such as Peter King, reported what that tape contained and anyone with common sense knows that every square inch of a casino is videotaped.
3. Ray Rice, a criminal defendant,, surely had access through discovery of the videotape. Thus, Goodell could have simply told Rice that he would suspend him indefinitely until he got the tape.
it must of been real tough to get a copy of the video from Security of a major hotel in Atlantic City where there are camera's everywhere 24x7
Probably as hard as getting a sex tape of Kim Kardashian
headhunter - so you expect the NFL to take a personnel action from evidence that is obtained outside of legal channels and which the authorities are refusing to release?
""It's grand jury material. It would have been improper — in fact, illegal — for the Atlantic County Prosecutor's Office to provide it to an outside/private/non law-enforcement entity," Paul Loriquet said, according to ABC News."
Is the Mortenson tweet among others from back in July that basically explains the exact events inside the elevator. If Mort (Mr. ELi will be out 4-6 weeks) can uncover the truth I am sure the NFL and its security staff could as well.
RE: well if law enforcement was the only office that could get it Â
how did TMZ end up with it? Not that the fallout of not gettting a video of something everyone knew already happened matters that much.
the only thing that would be interesting is if the NFL tried to suppress it in some way.
Note this video came out once Revel closed. At that point it seems like TMZ would have a much easier time convincing a Revel security person to hand over the video when they won't have a job anymore. I'd say it's likely true the NFL was unable to obtain the video from police when the incident first occurred since it was evidence in the investigation.
the authorities do not have ownership of the tape Â
if a party to the action, criminal or civil, went outside the normal discovery channels, then yes it would be a problem. The NFL was not a party and are not at all subject to any court orders. Moreover, all Revel has to do is to give the tape to the court via subpoena. Thus, the NFL could plainly get the tape if they wanted it. Law enforcement does not get exclusive rights to it, they only have the power to subpoena a copy of it. The only way it would have changed was if law enforcement subpoenaed the hard drive and Revel had nothing of the original tape. Then, Revel could not give it to the NFL because they did not have possession of it anymore. But, that would never happen when they can give them a copy of it
""It's grand jury material. It would have been improper — in fact, illegal — for the Atlantic County Prosecutor's Office to provide it to an outside/private/non law-enforcement entity," Paul Loriquet said, according to ABC News."
"Asked if he knew such a tape existed, Goodell said, "We suspected (it existed), that's why we asked for it. So we said: 'Is there any other information? Is there a video in the elevator? We would like to view it, we want to have all the information.'"
@HarveyLevinTMZ
Goodell just dug himself a big hole. He says he didnt ask casino for tape b/c he wanted it from "credible" sources. BS.
@HarveyLevinTMZ
Does he realize cops got their tape from Casino? If he really had problem w/ casino as "credible," why suspend Rice based on TMZ casino vid
@HarveyLevinTMZ
NFL source for TMZ says Goodell didn't go to casino b/c he didnt want to do "end around" on cops b/c it would interfere w/ investigation BS
@HarveyLevinTMZ
Going to casino would NOT affect case at all. Besides criminal case over in May He could have asked casino in June & July before punishment
@HarveyLevinTMZ
There has to be reason Goodell did somersaults to avoid seeing tape. its as if he had punishment in mind and video would get in way of that
I guess could have been advised in an abundance of caution not to seek the tape from Revel to avoid the appearance they were interfering. I don't remember the timeline, but didn't the NFL wait until after the criminal case was disposed of before they ruled on Rice's punishment.
I'm pretty sure the NFL is limited to evidence obtained through official channels in disciplining players. They can't just give a guy at the hotel a few dozen grand under the table and then use the tape as evidence.
Also, if you were suspected of a crime with an ongoing investigation, how comfortable would you be if your employer could just obtain sealed materials from the cops?
I'm pretty sure the NFL is limited to evidence obtained through official channels in disciplining players. They can't just give a guy at the hotel a few dozen grand under the table and then use the tape as evidence.
Why not? MLB did exactly that kind of shady shit in the Biogenesis case.
Why isn't anybody calling out the Ravens management? Â
In comment 11853438 RB^2 said:
[quote] I'm pretty sure the NFL is limited to evidence obtained through official channels in disciplining players. They can't just give a guy at the hotel a few dozen grand under the table and then use the tape as evidence.
Also, if you were suspected of a crime with an ongoing investigation, how comfortable would you be if your employer could just obtain sealed materials from the cops? [/quot
I know it's the NBA but how did Adam Sterling ban someone for life over a tape
What Rice did was abhorrent and the Ravens have right on their side in cutting him, but the NFL suspending him indefinitely really is just another example of how little grasp they have on the matter.
So what is 2 games, 6 games, indefinite if it looks real bad? Six games if you do it at home and no one sees?
The NFL hands down a decision in July, for an incident in February.....that's 5 months that they have had to investigate this.....
We see the video outside the elevator......Rice dragging his girl friend out of the elevator....not carrying her, like he was concerned for here well being....when he stops dragging her, her legs are still inside the elevator, and he haphazardly grabs them from the door....tries to lift her up and just walks away....
Police are called.....there is a Police report....in the report it is stated that he hit her and knocked her out...."COMMIT ASSAULT BY ATTEMPTING TO CAUSE BODILY INJURY TO J. PALMER, SPECIFICALLY BY STRIKING HER WITH HIS HAND, RENDERING HER UNCONSCIOUS, AT THE REVEL CASINO."
I repeat, he hit her and knocked her out....do you really need a video to understand what he did? The report says he knocked her out...that is only worth 2 games....
So now, Goodell talks to the both of them about the incident.....by now they probably have concocted a story that "justifies"(?) him hitting her? And he believes them?
As for the video inside the elevator, talk shows around here are stating back in May, that the DA was thinking of going forward with prosecution, even without the testimony of J. Palmer, because they had "additional" video.....and yet Goodell, is saying he knew nothing about it's existence?
Very surprised that the female reporter, that interviewed Goodell, did not ask him, was the story that Rice/Palmer told him, validated by the video inside the elevator? Or did they lie to him about what actually happened?
First, it was grand jury material, which means it was sealed and Revel could NOT just give it to anyone.
Also, the NFL certainly could have gotten the video under the table like TMZ did but a) it could not use it to discipline Rice and b) if they never relied on the tape to discipline Rice, if the mere fact that they procured the tape became known, it could have jeopardized their ability to discipline Rice at all.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the NFL can't coerce a player to turn over evidence to the NFL that the NFL has no legal right to.
First, it was grand jury material, which means it was sealed and Revel could NOT just give it to anyone.
Also, the NFL certainly could have gotten the video under the table like TMZ did but a) it could not use it to discipline Rice and b) if they never relied on the tape to discipline Rice, if the mere fact that they procured the tape became known, it could have jeopardized their ability to discipline Rice at all.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the NFL can't coerce a player to turn over evidence to the NFL that the NFL has no legal right to.
My only question to that is how did Adam Silver ban an owner for life, maybe the bylaws of the NBA constitution are different.
I don't get all the talk about the video and whether they had it or not. They knew the guy hit her and knocked her out. What did anyone expect it the look like before seeing?
All the material information was known without having to see the video. The guy smacked his wife and knocked her out. Isn't that enough to know this was a violent episode?
They are using the video as an excuse to rectify their mistake. I'm glad they were able to change it, but this business about the video as changing anything and the reaction so much worse after seeing is BS. If you didn't already know that a guy smacking his wife hard enough to knock her out as a hideous and violent action, you are completely blind to the horrors of domestic abuse. Enough about the video.
First, it was grand jury material, which means it was sealed and Revel could NOT just give it to anyone.
Also, the NFL certainly could have gotten the video under the table like TMZ did but a) it could not use it to discipline Rice and b) if they never relied on the tape to discipline Rice, if the mere fact that they procured the tape became known, it could have jeopardized their ability to discipline Rice at all.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the NFL can't coerce a player to turn over evidence to the NFL that the NFL has no legal right to.
What new information did the video bring? We already knew he smacked her out cold. What exactly was anyone expecting to see on the video that would have made this look like anything but a sickening act? Are we really that naive?
It amazes me that people are buying into the video Â
Goodell states in the link that Rice & his reps told him there were mitigating circumstances. Goodell says that he was skeptical that there were mitigating circumstances but didn't have the evidence to definitely decide on the issue. RB2's post is very helpful in clarifying the legal issues involved.
seeking out additional people in this situation to punish?
Frankly, what the NFL did or didn't know is immaterial. I'm still trying to understand why Rice isn't just taking the blows here and why the public is looking for additional scapegoats.
On this is pathetic. I'm pretty sure Rice might even have legal avenues but he most likely won't avail himself of them. I'm sure he wants to play again and the NFL will most likely let him back in after a time if he keeps himself straight and does a Vick like effort with domestic violence.
The NFL AND Baltimore are such hypocrites. Other than see as opposed to hearing about the fight what exactly changes legally or morally since TMZ leaked the video. If Rice was honest in what happened to the best of his drunken recollections this is suck a corporate CYA PR campaign. Nothing else.
I'm pretty sure the NFL is limited to evidence obtained through official channels in disciplining players. They can't just give a guy at the hotel a few dozen grand under the table and then use the tape as evidence.
Why not? MLB did exactly that kind of shady shit in the Biogenesis case.
Exactly but just because MLB is reckless doesn't mean the NFL has to follow suit. You're right, this was incredibly shady by MLB.
"If Rice was honest in what happened to the best of his drunken recollections this is suck a corporate CYA PR campaign."
Well, Goodell states that Rice wasn't honest about what happened.
FMiC - I agree. Look, Goodell erred and he admitted as such in the linked article. This isn't the sort of mistake - one which he has rectified - that justifies firing Goodell. (I think he may deserve to be "transitioned out" but for different reasons.)
The bigger issue is that the NFL appears to have no universal well-publicized and concisely stated approach to off-the-field misconduct. It needs to be concisely stated so the players can easily understand what is expected of them and the fan base can understand the NFL's reasoning.
Why are the penalties for killing pedestrians and fellow motorists, killing dogs, domestic violence, gambling and non-PED drug use so disjointed. An overarching principle is needed.
In comment 11853438 RB^2 said:
[quote] I'm pretty sure the NFL is limited to evidence obtained through official channels in disciplining players. They can't just give a guy at the hotel a few dozen grand under the table and then use the tape as evidence.
Also, if you were suspected of a crime with an ongoing investigation, how comfortable would you be if your employer could just obtain sealed materials from the cops? [/quot
I know it's the NBA but how did Adam Sterling ban someone for life over a tape
I believe that tape was already public and IIRC, the NBA did investigate whether it could actually use the tape to nail Sterling.
First, it was grand jury material, which means it was sealed and Revel could NOT just give it to anyone.
Also, the NFL certainly could have gotten the video under the table like TMZ did but a) it could not use it to discipline Rice and b) if they never relied on the tape to discipline Rice, if the mere fact that they procured the tape became known, it could have jeopardized their ability to discipline Rice at all.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the NFL can't coerce a player to turn over evidence to the NFL that the NFL has no legal right to.
What new information did the video bring? We already knew he smacked her out cold. What exactly was anyone expecting to see on the video that would have made this look like anything but a sickening act? Are we really that naive?
How do you know this? How do you know she didn't fall over in a drunken stupor and knock herself out, even if a physical confrontation was taking place?
I agree the whole situation is sickening but there is a range of plausible scenarios under that heading. The video is the only conclusive proof.
All the sports leagues got themselves into trouble Â
when they started getting into the supplemental punishment business. Really, it is a criminal matter that was handled by the criminal justice system. Why his employer has an additional responsibility to determine some other appropriate punishment is not clear to me. I bet they wish they never got into this and always just said, he has been punished by the courts, that's it.
The debate over whether his punishment by the court was appropriate is another story.
Who cares what Goodell might or might night of done? There is a thousand of these cases a day and probably more in the US. I understand that the NFL has a personal conduct policy but is the NFL going to hire a private detective, payoff employees, or some other nefarious act to get a tape that may or may not show anything? Do you think that he did not do everything he could within the limits of the law or as he understood it? Because of Goodell the NFL has changed over the years and people here think there is a conspiracy and that he might of done this/might of done that. Do you honestly think that he would actively do something that could lead back to him or tarnish the NFL. He might not of followed through to the level of scrutiny that every lawyer here thinks he should of done but put yourself in that situation. He hears so many things everyday .. what is real? What is isn't? What's true? What's not? It was assault plain and simple. I could care less if it is a girl or a guy. He initiated it and he deserved what he got.
before we back off on all this? Should we fire Roger Goodell? Boycott the league? How many acts of domestic violence will that prevent? Zero.
Ninety percent of the general public that's up in arms over this will forget about Ray Rice in a month. "Ray Rice? Who? Ohh that guy from the elevator? What happened to him again? Is he still suspended?" They'll have moved on to the next cause celebre.
First, it was grand jury material, which means it was sealed and Revel could NOT just give it to anyone.
Also, the NFL certainly could have gotten the video under the table like TMZ did but a) it could not use it to discipline Rice and b) if they never relied on the tape to discipline Rice, if the mere fact that they procured the tape became known, it could have jeopardized their ability to discipline Rice at all.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the NFL can't coerce a player to turn over evidence to the NFL that the NFL has no legal right to.
What new information did the video bring? We already knew he smacked her out cold. What exactly was anyone expecting to see on the video that would have made this look like anything but a sickening act? Are we really that naive?
How do you know this? How do you know she didn't fall over in a drunken stupor and knock herself out, even if a physical confrontation was taking place?
I agree the whole situation is sickening but there is a range of plausible scenarios under that heading. The video is the only conclusive proof.
Really? Rice acknowledged it. Goodell apologized. No one was saying she fell over before the tape. It was always reported he had hit her.
Goodell states in the link that Rice & his reps told him there were mitigating circumstances. Goodell says that he was skeptical that there were mitigating circumstances but didn't have the evidence to definitely decide on the issue. RB2's post is very helpful in clarifying the legal issues involved.
We knew he hit her hard enough to knock her out. That is all you need to know to realize this was a hideous and violent act. The only thing unknown was the particular details like if she came at him first. But if those particulars changes people's views materially on the situation then they are blind to the realities of domestic abuse. Unless she had a weapon and this was a case of necessary self defense, which was never reported, no one's expectations should have been anything but that this was an ugly violent act.
The NFL is claiming that Rice and his counsel materially misrepresented what happened. They say that the tape doesn't corroborate Rice's story.
I'm sure. But likely in details like if she hit him first, which should not change this significantly. It was reported from the beginning that he had hit her and that she was found knocked out. They knew from the beginning it was bad enough which is why Goddell apologized and why Rice never denied hitting her. So RG knew he screwed up, and admitted it, but now people are reacting after seeing the tape and people are realizing just how bad a mistake it was.
I think it is just that people who have not seen this sort of thing don't realize how ugly it is. Now that they see it, they realize.
that this was a two way thing that got out of hand. Maybe that he pushed her and she fell. He slapped her after she slapped him repeatedly and she lost her balance. Who knows.
When the video came out, it was obvious that they both lied to protect him.
no one jumps in before me but I want to make this three posts in a row that say the same thing. The sanitized version of events that the Rices told the NFL and the Ravens were not backed up by the video. That Goodell should have given Ray Rice a tougher penalty is a given. The belief that he should have gotten ahold of the video using the same tactics as TMZ is wrong.
Case in point, Baseball now has to worry that their legal end-arounds in the Biogensis case against A-Rod and company do not hinder the current Federal Case against the firm owners because if it does then that might lead to a bigger black eye than anything the punished players could have done.
The belief that he should have gotten ahold of the video using the same tactics as TMZ is wrong.
Goodell admitted he never simply asked the casino for the tape. That has nothing to do with "tactics" and TMZ.
If that's true, it may have been on advice of counsel. I'm pretty sure they considered asking.
If what's true? That he never asked the casino for the tape? Per the NFL ...
How is that the NFL couldn't get their hands on the second tape, but a website called TMZ could?
"Well, I don't know how TMZ or any other website gets their information. We are particularly reliant on law enforcement. That's the most reliable, it's the most credible and we don't seek to get that information from sources that are not credible."
From a previous yankee78 post above :
Quote:
@HarveyLevinTMZ
Goodell just dug himself a big hole. He says he didnt ask casino for tape b/c he wanted it from "credible" sources. BS.
@HarveyLevinTMZ
Does he realize cops got their tape from Casino? If he really had problem w/ casino as "credible," why suspend Rice based on TMZ casino vid
@HarveyLevinTMZ
NFL source for TMZ says Goodell didn't go to casino b/c he didnt want to do "end around" on cops b/c it would interfere w/ investigation BS
@HarveyLevinTMZ
Going to casino would NOT affect case at all. Besides criminal case over in May He could have asked casino in June & July before punishment
@HarveyLevinTMZ
There has to be reason Goodell did somersaults to avoid seeing tape. its as if he had punishment in mind and video would get in way of that
made it only 2 games after talking with Janay, who likely told him she too was responsible for creating the mess, by spitting at and kicking RR, his Raja-ness SHOULD HAVE asked the hotel,RRs defense lawyer who had a copy of the tape, AND the DA also, for a copy of the tape, just to verifiy what She said was true.
Believe -0- from his mouth; he only admitted to dropping the ball because he got caught dropping the ball, then covered it up with the 'new league policy on domestic abuse'.
The man, in trying to protect RR, Ravens, and the NFL image, exposed them all to more criticism.
Should be fired, but will be given a pay raise.
And does not believe the bs excuse that he couldn't get the tape from the casino. They wrote a letter demanding an explanation and they have the power to get one since they hold the anti trust thing over his head. This is far from over.
Is the Mortenson tweet among others from back in July that basically explains the exact events inside the elevator. If Mort (Mr. ELi will be out 4-6 weeks) can uncover the truth I am sure the NFL and its security staff could as well.
Totally agree. This is exactly why I'm not buying this line of BS from the NFL and Goodell. How can the NFL possibly explain Peter King and Chris Mortensen giving detailed accounts of this video months ago? King and Mort get their info from NFL sources. There's nothing those two guys know that the NFL itself doesn't. I find the NFL's "we didn't see it" excuse to be laughable and I think anyone who believes that excuse is naïve.
I enjoy seeing Goodell squirm like this but I really don't care if he's fired or not. If he's gone, it'll just be the next puppet on deck who takes over. But Goodell's handling of this has been a joke and I enjoy seeing him and the NFL get shit on for this.
Took a couple of days to tie up the loose ends for him to come out and not worry that this claim of "Did everything we could to get the tape" gets blown-up by someone proving otherwise
Again, here is what the NFL had to say this morning:
"Security for Atlantic City casinos is handled by the New Jersey State Police. Any videos related to an ongoing criminal investigation are held in the custody of the state police. As we said yesterday: We requested from law enforcement any and all information about the incident, including the video from inside the elevator. That video was not made available to us."
But buried within this ESPN story about Janay Palmer is this passage:
In response to inquiries from ABC News, the New Jersey State Police said the statement from the NFL is not accurate.
Quote:
"Investigations of incidents on the casino floor are handled by the NJSP, but this occurred in the elevator and was handled by the [Atlantic City Police Department]," an NJSP spokesman said. "We never had the video."
Probably as hard as getting a sex tape of Kim Kardashian
the only thing that would be interesting is if the NFL tried to suppress it in some way.
2) Rice's suspension is "indefinite", which means that he can be reinstated at the NFL's discretion later on. That actually seems pretty appropriate. I'd like to hear why it isn't appropriate from those who disagree.
3) Goodell obviously thinks Rice and his representatives were being dishonest with him and the NFL, which is at odds (not incompatible, but at odds) with press reports about Rice coming clean and admitting his mistake. I would guess that this lack of honesty is one of the secondary reasons for Rice's indefinite suspension.
2. They obviously knew their was a tape inside the elevator as reporters, such as Peter King, reported what that tape contained and anyone with common sense knows that every square inch of a casino is videotaped.
3. Ray Rice, a criminal defendant,, surely had access through discovery of the videotape. Thus, Goodell could have simply told Rice that he would suspend him indefinitely until he got the tape.
Probably as hard as getting a sex tape of Kim Kardashian
headhunter - so you expect the NFL to take a personnel action from evidence that is obtained outside of legal channels and which the authorities are refusing to release?
Please give this just a moment's thought.
BBI lawyers, help us out on this issue.
the only thing that would be interesting is if the NFL tried to suppress it in some way.
Note this video came out once Revel closed. At that point it seems like TMZ would have a much easier time convincing a Revel security person to hand over the video when they won't have a job anymore. I'd say it's likely true the NFL was unable to obtain the video from police when the incident first occurred since it was evidence in the investigation.
BBI lawyers, help us out on this issue.
yes, illegal for the prosecutor, not for REVEL.
"Asked if he knew such a tape existed, Goodell said, "We suspected (it existed), that's why we asked for it. So we said: 'Is there any other information? Is there a video in the elevator? We would like to view it, we want to have all the information.'"
It's not clear who the NFL asked. Ambiguous.
Goodell just dug himself a big hole. He says he didnt ask casino for tape b/c he wanted it from "credible" sources. BS.
@HarveyLevinTMZ
Does he realize cops got their tape from Casino? If he really had problem w/ casino as "credible," why suspend Rice based on TMZ casino vid
@HarveyLevinTMZ
NFL source for TMZ says Goodell didn't go to casino b/c he didnt want to do "end around" on cops b/c it would interfere w/ investigation BS
@HarveyLevinTMZ
Going to casino would NOT affect case at all. Besides criminal case over in May He could have asked casino in June & July before punishment
@HarveyLevinTMZ
There has to be reason Goodell did somersaults to avoid seeing tape. its as if he had punishment in mind and video would get in way of that
Also, if you were suspected of a crime with an ongoing investigation, how comfortable would you be if your employer could just obtain sealed materials from the cops?
Why not? MLB did exactly that kind of shady shit in the Biogenesis case.
They knew what happened, but ignored it until that video came out. IMO, they are more culpable than Goodell.
[quote] I'm pretty sure the NFL is limited to evidence obtained through official channels in disciplining players. They can't just give a guy at the hotel a few dozen grand under the table and then use the tape as evidence.
Also, if you were suspected of a crime with an ongoing investigation, how comfortable would you be if your employer could just obtain sealed materials from the cops? [/quot
I know it's the NBA but how did Adam Sterling ban someone for life over a tape
So what is 2 games, 6 games, indefinite if it looks real bad? Six games if you do it at home and no one sees?
We see the video outside the elevator......Rice dragging his girl friend out of the elevator....not carrying her, like he was concerned for here well being....when he stops dragging her, her legs are still inside the elevator, and he haphazardly grabs them from the door....tries to lift her up and just walks away....
Police are called.....there is a Police report....in the report it is stated that he hit her and knocked her out...."COMMIT ASSAULT BY ATTEMPTING TO CAUSE BODILY INJURY TO J. PALMER, SPECIFICALLY BY STRIKING HER WITH HIS HAND, RENDERING HER UNCONSCIOUS, AT THE REVEL CASINO."
I repeat, he hit her and knocked her out....do you really need a video to understand what he did? The report says he knocked her out...that is only worth 2 games....
So now, Goodell talks to the both of them about the incident.....by now they probably have concocted a story that "justifies"(?) him hitting her? And he believes them?
As for the video inside the elevator, talk shows around here are stating back in May, that the DA was thinking of going forward with prosecution, even without the testimony of J. Palmer, because they had "additional" video.....and yet Goodell, is saying he knew nothing about it's existence?
Very surprised that the female reporter, that interviewed Goodell, did not ask him, was the story that Rice/Palmer told him, validated by the video inside the elevator? Or did they lie to him about what actually happened?
First, it was grand jury material, which means it was sealed and Revel could NOT just give it to anyone.
Also, the NFL certainly could have gotten the video under the table like TMZ did but a) it could not use it to discipline Rice and b) if they never relied on the tape to discipline Rice, if the mere fact that they procured the tape became known, it could have jeopardized their ability to discipline Rice at all.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the NFL can't coerce a player to turn over evidence to the NFL that the NFL has no legal right to.
First, it was grand jury material, which means it was sealed and Revel could NOT just give it to anyone.
Also, the NFL certainly could have gotten the video under the table like TMZ did but a) it could not use it to discipline Rice and b) if they never relied on the tape to discipline Rice, if the mere fact that they procured the tape became known, it could have jeopardized their ability to discipline Rice at all.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the NFL can't coerce a player to turn over evidence to the NFL that the NFL has no legal right to.
My only question to that is how did Adam Silver ban an owner for life, maybe the bylaws of the NBA constitution are different.
All the material information was known without having to see the video. The guy smacked his wife and knocked her out. Isn't that enough to know this was a violent episode?
They are using the video as an excuse to rectify their mistake. I'm glad they were able to change it, but this business about the video as changing anything and the reaction so much worse after seeing is BS. If you didn't already know that a guy smacking his wife hard enough to knock her out as a hideous and violent action, you are completely blind to the horrors of domestic abuse. Enough about the video.
First, it was grand jury material, which means it was sealed and Revel could NOT just give it to anyone.
Also, the NFL certainly could have gotten the video under the table like TMZ did but a) it could not use it to discipline Rice and b) if they never relied on the tape to discipline Rice, if the mere fact that they procured the tape became known, it could have jeopardized their ability to discipline Rice at all.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the NFL can't coerce a player to turn over evidence to the NFL that the NFL has no legal right to.
What new information did the video bring? We already knew he smacked her out cold. What exactly was anyone expecting to see on the video that would have made this look like anything but a sickening act? Are we really that naive?
Frankly, what the NFL did or didn't know is immaterial. I'm still trying to understand why Rice isn't just taking the blows here and why the public is looking for additional scapegoats.
It really is starting to resemble a witch hunt.
The NFL AND Baltimore are such hypocrites. Other than see as opposed to hearing about the fight what exactly changes legally or morally since TMZ leaked the video. If Rice was honest in what happened to the best of his drunken recollections this is suck a corporate CYA PR campaign. Nothing else.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure the NFL is limited to evidence obtained through official channels in disciplining players. They can't just give a guy at the hotel a few dozen grand under the table and then use the tape as evidence.
Why not? MLB did exactly that kind of shady shit in the Biogenesis case.
Exactly but just because MLB is reckless doesn't mean the NFL has to follow suit. You're right, this was incredibly shady by MLB.
Well, Goodell states that Rice wasn't honest about what happened.
FMiC - I agree. Look, Goodell erred and he admitted as such in the linked article. This isn't the sort of mistake - one which he has rectified - that justifies firing Goodell. (I think he may deserve to be "transitioned out" but for different reasons.)
The bigger issue is that the NFL appears to have no universal well-publicized and concisely stated approach to off-the-field misconduct. It needs to be concisely stated so the players can easily understand what is expected of them and the fan base can understand the NFL's reasoning.
Why are the penalties for killing pedestrians and fellow motorists, killing dogs, domestic violence, gambling and non-PED drug use so disjointed. An overarching principle is needed.
To me, that's what the NFL needs to address.
[quote] I'm pretty sure the NFL is limited to evidence obtained through official channels in disciplining players. They can't just give a guy at the hotel a few dozen grand under the table and then use the tape as evidence.
Also, if you were suspected of a crime with an ongoing investigation, how comfortable would you be if your employer could just obtain sealed materials from the cops? [/quot
I know it's the NBA but how did Adam Sterling ban someone for life over a tape
I believe that tape was already public and IIRC, the NBA did investigate whether it could actually use the tape to nail Sterling.
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The NFL was in a tough spot regarding the tape.
First, it was grand jury material, which means it was sealed and Revel could NOT just give it to anyone.
Also, the NFL certainly could have gotten the video under the table like TMZ did but a) it could not use it to discipline Rice and b) if they never relied on the tape to discipline Rice, if the mere fact that they procured the tape became known, it could have jeopardized their ability to discipline Rice at all.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the NFL can't coerce a player to turn over evidence to the NFL that the NFL has no legal right to.
What new information did the video bring? We already knew he smacked her out cold. What exactly was anyone expecting to see on the video that would have made this look like anything but a sickening act? Are we really that naive?
How do you know this? How do you know she didn't fall over in a drunken stupor and knock herself out, even if a physical confrontation was taking place?
I agree the whole situation is sickening but there is a range of plausible scenarios under that heading. The video is the only conclusive proof.
The debate over whether his punishment by the court was appropriate is another story.
Ninety percent of the general public that's up in arms over this will forget about Ray Rice in a month. "Ray Rice? Who? Ohh that guy from the elevator? What happened to him again? Is he still suspended?" They'll have moved on to the next cause celebre.
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In comment 11853459 RB^2 said:
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The NFL was in a tough spot regarding the tape.
First, it was grand jury material, which means it was sealed and Revel could NOT just give it to anyone.
Also, the NFL certainly could have gotten the video under the table like TMZ did but a) it could not use it to discipline Rice and b) if they never relied on the tape to discipline Rice, if the mere fact that they procured the tape became known, it could have jeopardized their ability to discipline Rice at all.
Finally, I'm pretty sure the NFL can't coerce a player to turn over evidence to the NFL that the NFL has no legal right to.
What new information did the video bring? We already knew he smacked her out cold. What exactly was anyone expecting to see on the video that would have made this look like anything but a sickening act? Are we really that naive?
How do you know this? How do you know she didn't fall over in a drunken stupor and knock herself out, even if a physical confrontation was taking place?
I agree the whole situation is sickening but there is a range of plausible scenarios under that heading. The video is the only conclusive proof.
Really? Rice acknowledged it. Goodell apologized. No one was saying she fell over before the tape. It was always reported he had hit her.
We knew he hit her hard enough to knock her out. That is all you need to know to realize this was a hideous and violent act. The only thing unknown was the particular details like if she came at him first. But if those particulars changes people's views materially on the situation then they are blind to the realities of domestic abuse. Unless she had a weapon and this was a case of necessary self defense, which was never reported, no one's expectations should have been anything but that this was an ugly violent act.
I'm sure. But likely in details like if she hit him first, which should not change this significantly. It was reported from the beginning that he had hit her and that she was found knocked out. They knew from the beginning it was bad enough which is why Goddell apologized and why Rice never denied hitting her. So RG knew he screwed up, and admitted it, but now people are reacting after seeing the tape and people are realizing just how bad a mistake it was.
I think it is just that people who have not seen this sort of thing don't realize how ugly it is. Now that they see it, they realize.
When the video came out, it was obvious that they both lied to protect him.
Case in point, Baseball now has to worry that their legal end-arounds in the Biogensis case against A-Rod and company do not hinder the current Federal Case against the firm owners because if it does then that might lead to a bigger black eye than anything the punished players could have done.
Goodell admitted he never simply asked the casino for the tape. That has nothing to do with "tactics" and TMZ.
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The belief that he should have gotten ahold of the video using the same tactics as TMZ is wrong.
Goodell admitted he never simply asked the casino for the tape. That has nothing to do with "tactics" and TMZ.
If that's true, it may have been on advice of counsel. I'm pretty sure they considered asking.
What was his story? That she slipped and hit her head on the railing?
What did they expect it to look like?
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In comment 11853831 Semipro Lineman said:
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The belief that he should have gotten ahold of the video using the same tactics as TMZ is wrong.
Goodell admitted he never simply asked the casino for the tape. That has nothing to do with "tactics" and TMZ.
If that's true, it may have been on advice of counsel. I'm pretty sure they considered asking.
If what's true? That he never asked the casino for the tape? Per the NFL ...
How is that the NFL couldn't get their hands on the second tape, but a website called TMZ could?
"Well, I don't know how TMZ or any other website gets their information. We are particularly reliant on law enforcement. That's the most reliable, it's the most credible and we don't seek to get that information from sources that are not credible."
From a previous yankee78 post above :
Goodell just dug himself a big hole. He says he didnt ask casino for tape b/c he wanted it from "credible" sources. BS.
@HarveyLevinTMZ
Does he realize cops got their tape from Casino? If he really had problem w/ casino as "credible," why suspend Rice based on TMZ casino vid
@HarveyLevinTMZ
NFL source for TMZ says Goodell didn't go to casino b/c he didnt want to do "end around" on cops b/c it would interfere w/ investigation BS
@HarveyLevinTMZ
Going to casino would NOT affect case at all. Besides criminal case over in May He could have asked casino in June & July before punishment
@HarveyLevinTMZ
There has to be reason Goodell did somersaults to avoid seeing tape. its as if he had punishment in mind and video would get in way of that
Believe -0- from his mouth; he only admitted to dropping the ball because he got caught dropping the ball, then covered it up with the 'new league policy on domestic abuse'.
The man, in trying to protect RR, Ravens, and the NFL image, exposed them all to more criticism.
Should be fired, but will be given a pay raise.
Totally agree. This is exactly why I'm not buying this line of BS from the NFL and Goodell. How can the NFL possibly explain Peter King and Chris Mortensen giving detailed accounts of this video months ago? King and Mort get their info from NFL sources. There's nothing those two guys know that the NFL itself doesn't. I find the NFL's "we didn't see it" excuse to be laughable and I think anyone who believes that excuse is naïve.
I enjoy seeing Goodell squirm like this but I really don't care if he's fired or not. If he's gone, it'll just be the next puppet on deck who takes over. But Goodell's handling of this has been a joke and I enjoy seeing him and the NFL get shit on for this.
"Security for Atlantic City casinos is handled by the New Jersey State Police. Any videos related to an ongoing criminal investigation are held in the custody of the state police. As we said yesterday: We requested from law enforcement any and all information about the incident, including the video from inside the elevator. That video was not made available to us."
But buried within this ESPN story about Janay Palmer is this passage:
In response to inquiries from ABC News, the New Jersey State Police said the statement from the NFL is not accurate.
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