Ray Rice - 2nd punishment for the same off the field offense

But I doubt it will do much because the public outcry is too strong. I think they will let it go and do the right thing.

really wants to come out and fight for Rice after the whole world has seen that video? It would make them look like monsters and it would be a PR nightmare. The union needs to pick battles they can win. They'd lose this one in the court of public opinion. I'm sure the union wants to clean up the puclic image of an NFL player, so distancing themselves from Rice would be their best move.

The new punishment is for crushing her jaw with a left.

Two separate offenses.

Weird thing to complain about...

but as uber and jughead point out, why would you expect the union to fight this? Fighting for their members' rights is important to them, but defending the initial punishment, which was widely derided before the tape was made public, wouldn't be a particularly smart move for them.

isn't even consistent with the new domestic violence policy the league just released.

Indefinite suspension for first offense, unless we never see the tape? What exactly is the rule now?

when the 1st penalty was handed down wording that said something to the to the effect that it could be revisited if new or more information came to light. Also maybe in his interview with them he either lied about some details or mislead them in some way which would give them reason to reevaluate.

That is there job. He pays his dues. What Rice did is disgusting and there is no excuse. However, to take the guys livelihood away for a one time incident is not right. I still can't get over how Stalworth killed a person and basically got an insignificant suspension and Rice punches his fiancé and basically is done in the NFL. As bad as Rice's incident was I feel like he is being made an example of for the NFL to show how they are in control and are not putting up with their bad image.

it is about letting a precedent be set that a player can be punished .... and then re-punished because the media, public etc does not like the initial punishment.

What Rice did was pure BS. However the precedent that is being set is not a good one. JMO.

Pretty sure someone at the NFL has, too. They knew the video would come out. They just wanted plausible deniability. The Rice's lying about what happened and the video not falling into the NFL's laps provided that.

And the slice of the marketplace that feels badly about Ray Rice's 'rights' just now is really thin. So don't expect a lot of people sharing your misdirected outrage.

the Union's job is to DO THEIR JOB!

The Indefinite Suspension
okayrene : 10:39 am : link : reply
isn't even consistent with the new domestic violence policy the league just released.

Indefinite suspension for first offense, unless we never see the tape? What exactly is the rule now?

plain and simple. The support for lengthening the suspension is due to this "new evidence".

The length of the suspension really doesn't matter. Maybe 3 years ago it would have, but he just not good enough anymore to have him on your team with the baggage he now has.

It was still one of the top stories this morning on the morning news shows. You can debate whether this is a more important story than ISIS and Ukraine, but the fact is that the media has seized on it and has no intentions at present of slowing down. I don't think the union wants to stand on train tracks in front of an oncoming train and pay the consequences.

Once the Ravens released him no team was going to touch him this season anyway and they really didn't have to do anything at that point.

In comment 11853636 robbieballs2003 said:

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That is there job. He pays his dues. What Rice did is disgusting and there is no excuse. However, to take the guys livelihood away for a one time incident is not right. I still can't get over how Stalworth killed a person and basically got an insignificant suspension and Rice punches his fiancé and basically is done in the NFL. As bad as Rice's incident was I feel like he is being made an example of for the NFL to show how they are in control and are not putting up with their bad image.

Exactly. And I expect them to challenge this decision in some fashion to defend its member's rights because that is basically their entire purpose for existing.

Joshn Brent is reinstated Week 11, right? Yea, the union will do its best to get rice back and playing too.

In comment 11853648 Jughead said:

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The length of the suspension really doesn't matter. Maybe 3 years ago it would have, but he just not good enough anymore to have him on your team with the baggage he now has.

Not this season anyway. I'm not sure about 2015.

If Jaynay just stabbed Rice in the eye with a pencil.

than gold digger tendencies.

eye stoving!!

I understand the double jeopardy issue here. But the union is going to have to deal with the reality that slaps on the risk are going to be a thing of the past. The days when Leonard Little can be convicted of vehicular homicide/DWI and get an 8 game suspension are over.

The second was letting it go forward.

Whether the NFL should have known about the severity of the attack before the second tape come out, they had always stated that the punishment was subject to new information. They got the new information, and acted accordingly.

This isn't a court of law. So, questions of double jeopardy don't have any legal weight, like it or not.

My biggest problem is with them suspending him beyond what the newly implemented punishment structure calls for. Its arbitrary as hell. Thats DV folks. Thats what it looks like. Thats what the policy says gets you 6 games. What is the policy (or any policy) worth if you can disregard it. If the policy were 100% discretionary, fine. But its not. Before he got the ax my suggestion was for him to go and beg for a year suspension, but figured it wasnt doable based on the new 6 game rule. Then they go and suspend him beyond that. Believe me, im not crying for the guy, but bigger picture its problematic and its without question an issue the union should be offended by.

.

In comment 11853638 MotownGIANTS said:

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it is about letting a precedent be set that a player can be punished .... and then re-punished because the media, public etc does not like the initial punishment. What Rice did was pure BS. However the precedent that is being set is not a good one. JMO.

Motown,
To my knowledge, the original punishment was going to stand. The video is new information that shows that Rice lied to the NFL. As a result, the NFL levied additional punishment. This is not unprecedented in the NFL. I believe Vick or Pacman Jones or someone else also received additional punishment when they BS'ed the NFL and the NFL found out.

In comment 11853683 MotownGIANTS said:

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than gold digger tendencies.

Also true.

The NFL did say it would adjust accordingly if new info came to light, though I can't speak to the legality of it or with regards to the CBA details.

Blowing past the new domestic violence guidelines is the part that seems unfair to an extent, unless they're considering the new video evidence to be beyond a "basic first offense".

where never "re-punished".

It does essentially amount to double jeopardy. If it were a court of law it would be like getting sentenced to 2 years of probation and then the judge deciding later on to sentence you to a massive fine and life in prison with possibility of parole after seeing more evidence of what he already knew you were guilty of.

In comment 11853692 manh george said:

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This isn't a court of law. So, questions of double jeopardy don't have any legal weight, like it or not.

A vital point.

to dictate policy is dangerous in some cases for sure. This one I'm not so certain. The NFL clearly is not coming completely clean here and their entire handling of this has been one bungle after another.

Goodell needs a good eye stoving. That'll fix his wagon.

I'm pretty sure that's not true. One (or both) of them were hit with additional penalties after they lied to the NFL. I'm pretty sure it was Vick but perhaps it was a different player (maybe Roethlisberger) but I'm quite certain this happened.

In comment 11853719 JonC said:

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In comment 11853692 manh george said: Quote: This isn't a court of law. So, questions of double jeopardy don't have any legal weight, like it or not. A vital point.

Moreover, this is not a criminal case. Double jeopardy would be if the Atlantic City DA decided to retry and/or levy additional punishment to Rice now. DJ isn't a concept that applies to the NFL's handling of this.

Whether he lied to Goodell and the Ravens in the first place?

Goodell sat down with Ray and Janay. Their lawyer had the tape. If they wanted to see the tape, why didn't they ask Rice's lawyer for it??

I think they cut a deal and after the public outcry, reneged on the 2 week suspension..

If they can find 18,00 emails of the Saints during the Bounty gate, they could have gotten this tape if they wanted..

What did Rice lie about? I thought he told the league and authorities that he did hit her resulting in her being unconscious.

everyone in the world knew he knocked her out, from the beginning. He admitted it. There was zero doubt about what happened.

Now, this 'new' tape comes out and something is so horribly worse that this latest reaction comes out?

Let's get real. He punched her. We always knew he punched her. The league and the Ravens knew he punched her. He admitted he punched her. So now there's a video, and absolutely nothing has changed in our knowledge of what happened.

He's not the first man to have punched a woman. he's not the first NFL player to have punched a woman. Under reaction to begin with. Over reaction now.

and Puhleeze...his first suspension was for carrying an unconscious woman out of an elevator? Believe that, and I've got a bridge to sell you.

They had no legal right to the tape. The tape is part of a criminal investigation by the Atlantic City DA. Bountygate was solely an internal NFL matter.

Rice had a right to the tape because he was being accused of a crime and as such has a right to see evidence against him but that doesn't mean that the NFL can coerce him to hand it over to them.

I do agree Goodell likely forced a new deal on Rice after the video got out, after cutting the first deal "ignoring" the video evidence they didn't ask for in the hopes it would go away.

but this thing stinks to high heaven.

I do not believe for a second that the NFL/Goodell wanted to see the tape. They handed down a 2 game suspension (which was the rule) then upped it once the heat got a little too hot for them.

Did anyone really need to see the video to know what happened? Other than even more public outcry, nothing actually changed from the first accounting of this until now - we just got to see it with our own eyes and it seems even more real.

Lots of bad guys in this scenario.

The problem is that the victim herself corroborated Rice's watered down version to the NFL. What were they supposed to do? Tell her they don't believe her? On what grounds?

Chris Mortenson 2 months ago had outlined what was on the tape. Exactly how it had happened. The NFL has former FBI and Police on it's security staff. If they wanted that tape, they could have gotten it..

It didn't have to be a coercion..Goodell sat down with the both of them. Common sense says that there is another tape and he or his security team should have known that their lawyer had it..

Player's Association attorneys would kick ass. Rice has collective bargaining rights that he paid for. All guaranteed monies due him should be paid. The union can demand as much without condoning domestic violence. Also from the victim's perspective, how does she benefit from eliminating her spouse's income?

Hey I dealt with Teamsters over the years who slapped their ladies around. Some got criminally charged; some did not. We could not fire them for their actions. What's different here?

they then represented him on that basis. Now the video comes out that shows that he lied. Pretty sure the union is more likely to be pissed than supportive at this point.

In comment 11853764 JonC said:

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I do agree Goodell likely forced a new deal on Rice after the video got out, after cutting the first deal "ignoring" the video evidence they didn't ask for in the hopes it would go away.

Jon, I disagree. After hearing all this out, I think the NFL acted appropriately with respect to the tape and went as far as it could, which wasn't far because the tape was tied up in a criminal investigation and unavailable. The original suspension was light but they also acknowledged that.

?Effective immediately, violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence or sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to a suspension without pay of six games for a first offense, with consideration given to mitigating factors, as well as a longer suspension when circumstances warrant."

That's from Goodell's letter to the owners in August. The NFL has the latitude to increase the suspension beyond 6 games.

He was released, which Baltimore can do if it wants. No other team will pick him up being this toxic so in reality the suspension is meaningless until a team expresses an interest in him.

In comment 11853776 RetroJint said:

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Player's Association attorneys would kick ass. Rice has collective bargaining rights that he paid for. All guaranteed monies due him should be paid. The union can demand as much without condoning domestic violence. Also from the victim's perspective, how does she benefit from eliminating her spouse's income?

Do you know whether or not Rice hasn't been paid every cent the Ravens owed him?

That's exactly what i believe. This was a deal between the NFL, Rice and the Ravens..ESPN's Lester Munson said a a few times, they know how to get around things to get the tape..They just didn't want to see it because a deal was made and they paraded Janay around with her apologies, posted it on Ravens website and hoped that TMZ would never leak the second part..