NGT: How satisfied are you with the state of the NFL?

Get the hell outta here.

Please turn in your fan card immediately.

I am becoming less satisfied with the NFL but it's for different reasons than you posted. I really don't care about players off the field actions, you're not going to get 100% model citizens when they're trained to be violent being since Pop Warner. I don't care about the concussion issue, everybody knows what they're getting into when they play football... It's a dangerous game and they're being compensated (guaranteed contracts are another topic)

What I don't like is them appealing to the masses. I know why they're doing it of course and I can't argue it but every demographic is watching and caring about these games (maybe fantasy football is a culprit). Hopefully a European team isn't next.

It's 100% selfish on my part but I like the violence, the nastiness, the pure competition of what football really is.

Hopefully that made sense.

every year for the last 8 years. Even with the Giants' success, I don't enjoy the way the NFL is marketed (FANTASY! FANTASY! FANTASY!) and I can't stand sitting through a live broadcast where invariably I get 85% commercials, 10% idiotic commentary, 5% gameplay.

I think they've killed the golden goose and if it wasn't for fantasy sports they would have felt it by now.

I've got better things to do with my time.

myself. Not because of the Giants but the direction of the league. The quality of play on the field that drew me to the game has not reached my expectations for more than a few years. I don't like the contact rules, I don't like how defense is being neutered, and I don't like how the league is being marketed. Too much emphasis on social issues and not enough on the game IMO. Too much touchy-feely..

Eventually, the game we grew up with will be unrecognizable.

The only game I really watch are the Giants. I am so fed up with also with the fantasy craze. Who cares who you bench!! I guess I am becoming an old fogey.

Frustrated with all the offensive rule changes that takes away the enjoyment of a good defensive game.

Frustrated with the rock star mentality of the players and the media that helps create it.

Frustrated that a sport is supposed to be the gold standard of morality for the rest of the U.S.

and most of all

Frustrated that the Giants look terrible which is probably why this point was created in the first place...

These threads always crack me up. If we were good, these threads wouldn't exist.

The game is less enjoyable to watch. I always liked more smashmouth football, and for a variety of reasons, the league has become like a videogame of passing. I also find the current owners pretty loathesome. The importance of money in professional sports is a real turnoff; you cant just know your team, you have to know what their cap situation is, dead money etc. (true of all sports; look at any Mets thread).

Some of it is on me though. Football is less enjoyable with a laptop looking at 3 fantasy screens than it was in my youth, when you just watched a game commercials and all.

and if Im home like now Ill put on a game for a bit. Id just as soon watch EPL soccer tho. As far as the league, btwn NFL Arena football now and the convicts in uniforms, Im fairly disgusted.

MarketingMarketingMarketing.

The whole concept of staking so much of my emotional state on how well a group of dudes I've never met play a game.

The degree to which success is determined the dumb luck. (Primarily, the randomness of injuries.) I mean, nobody wants a sport to be purely deterministic, but you also don't want an approximation of a roulette wheel with torn ACLs on the 00 spot.

How dumb all the media discussion of it is. Makes me ashamed to admit that I'm a fan in certain circles.

The League's despicable history in the player safety and labor relations areas.

The degree to which fandom is defined as much by one's irrational hate of your team's rivals as it is by one's irrational love of one's team. I honestly think it would be easier to give up loving the Giants than it would be to give up hating the Eagles. That makes me feel like a bad person.

I'm pretty close to concluding that the whole "being a fan" experience isn't something I want to teach to my son.

Basically it sucks when the Giants are not good and it is the best when they are good. Basically what every other fan base says

I'd like to see Goodell in some sort of gay sex scandal - maybe involving midgets or amputees...something crazy like that with videos of him really begging for it - but beyond that I still enjoy the product.

but every year, there has been a compelling aspect of the season that has kept me involved when the Giants were non competitive. The Niners, Bills, John Elway, Dan Marino, Montana, Brady, Cowboys, an undefeated team etc.. I felt like I missed something when I wasn't watching a game on Sunday, Giants or not. Now, this season might just be remembered for Michael Sam, pot and Ray Rice none of which has anything to do about the product on the field. That and the proliferation of fantasy leagues has me not really caring much outside of my team. It used to be about the game, now it's about everything else primarily just to sell a few more shirts.

I now find it a chore to watch a game not featuring the Giants. There was a time I'd park myself on the couch all day and not move and watch any and every game I could fine. No longer. I have been bored by some of the games and disinterested in them. If football is even around 25 years from now, and I am still around as well, I actually am at the point where I doubt I'll still be watching.

and it has nothing to do with the NYG relative goodness or badness. it has everything to do with the product on the field. you can't play pass defense in this league any longer. the league wants more points so they get more post-score timeouts, post-extra point timeouts, post-kickoff timeouts, so they can fill that time with advertising. the 70s Steel Curtain would be in jail if they played today. roger's been great for the owners but he's been lousy for the league.

There are NFL games on Thursday night, Sunday afternoon, Sunday night, and Monday night, not to mention Saturday afternoons after college football is done. I think it's too much. All of the night games precede work days, which means they are an inconvenience for people who have to go to work. The draft has been stretched out to cover three days. It's over exposure, and it's done for the money. There is no added value.

In comment 11857192 moespree said:

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I now find it a chore to watch a game not featuring the Giants. .

Steelers vs Ravens tonight and i have no interest. I was never like this.

In comment 11857205 ChriS said:

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and it has nothing to do with the NYG relative goodness or badness. it has everything to do with the product on the field. you can't play pass defense in this league any longer. the league wants more points so they get more post-score timeouts, post-extra point timeouts, post-kickoff timeouts, so they can fill that time with advertising. the 70s Steel Curtain would be in jail if they played today. roger's been great for the owners but he's been lousy for the league.

The number of commercial breaks per half hasn't changed in a long time.

i'd really like to see those numbers. i think that scoring average is up, and the time it takes to play a game is up, and so if there are more stoppages in a longer game, i'd have to think there are more commercials in a half.

this blog post gets at a lot of the reasons.
Link - ( New Window )

quite honestly, the only time I really ENJOY watching games is when I'm downtown with a bunch of Giants fans. The game is totally unwatchable at home now, unless it's TiVo'd and I somehow don't know the score.

With the Giants sucking, it's dropping my interest, sure...but even if the Giants were to go 10-6 this season, I can count on both hands the number of other games I'd likely volunteer to watch all season.

In comment 11857248 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 11857192 moespree said: Quote: I now find it a chore to watch a game not featuring the Giants. . Steelers vs Ravens tonight and i have no interest. I was never like this.

Agreed. I should be excited to watch it (living in Baltimore). I understand the rivalry. But I opted to play some video games for an hour instead. Now I'm posting on BBI, and then showering and going to bed.

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Frustrated with all the offensive rule changes that takes away the enjoyment of a good defensive game.

I'm OK with rule changes for player safety, but the post SB XLVIII illegal contact changes are a joke.

If I want to watch a 51-45 game, I'll watch the Arena League or NCAA basketball. I hope Goodell is gone.

In comment 11857278 ChriS said:

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i'd really like to see those numbers. i think that scoring average is up, and the time it takes to play a game is up, and so if there are more stoppages in a longer game, i'd have to think there are more commercials in a half.

10 per half, plus a couple during the halftime "show."

I know it was the same under the previous broadcasting contract, but I don't remember whether it goes back further than that.

The rule changes in 1978 (illegal contact barred) and 1994 (2-pt conversions, ball placement post-missed-FG, OL allowed to line up off the ball a little bit) clearly increased scoring, but most of the scoring increase outside of those events has been driven by the 50-year upward trend in placekicker effectiveness.

I'm OK with rule changes for player safety, but the post SB XLVIII illegal contact changes are a joke.

If I want to watch a 51-45 game, I'll watch the Arena League or NCAA basketball. I hope Goodell is gone.

In comment 11857313 Trainmaster said:

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Quote: Frustrated with all the offensive rule changes that takes away the enjoyment of a good defensive game. I'm OK with rule changes for player safety, but the post SB XLVIII illegal contact changes are a joke. If I want to watch a 51-45 game, I'll watch the Arena League or NCAA basketball. I hope Goodell is gone.

2014 is the 3rd time the NFL has "emphasized" illegal contact since the rule was put in place in 1978. It's not a decision to increase scoring-- it's a statement that strategies that depend on the officials not enforcing the rules on the books cannot stand. An important statement for any sports or games governing body to make when teams/players take things too far.

AT least on NFL rewind they cut out the commercials. I lose the suspense but at least I can enjoy what's left of football. The live broadcasts with their constant commercials and non football related banter have become unwatchable.

As for the sport itself we've had endure inconsistent officiating and the degradation of defense over the years but there may be light at the end of the tunnel on that front. The current champion Seahawks built their team on coverage of a type that I wouldn't have thought possible in this era. Although the pre season officiating had me scared, the week one officiating was actually quite good in the games I saw.

Getting rid of Goodall is another reason for hope, provided his replacement isn't worse than he is.

I'm with you. I've dropped Suday Ticket. Didn't even try to bargain them down. Spend the weekend watching Barclay's Premier League in the morning and early afternoon. If there is a really goo game o I may wtch, but being in Jacksonville Fl. I see a lot of Jaguars, Bucs and Falcons. Spend my im by th pool. and In comment 11857010 Red Dog said:

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I've got better things to do with my time.

removing the elements from the game has made the players technicians and not players. All games need to be played outdoors on grass for the good of the game and the safety of the players. The game slows down in bad weather and the better team needs to impose it's will with a ground game. That is gone now. Harry Carson could not play LB in the NFL anymore. The players and conditions are juiced and the NFL is a few clicks away from being an indoor arena circus.

The NBA and NHL lost me a while back because both sports are coached to death and the spontaneity and creativity is gone. I think the NFL will lose me soon.

Bring back the damn Packer sweep, dammit.........

In comment 11857327 Ron from Ninerland said:

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AT least on NFL rewind they cut out the commercials. I lose the suspense but at least I can enjoy what's left of football. The live broadcasts with their constant commercials and non football related banter have become unwatchable. As for the sport itself we've had endure inconsistent officiating and the degradation of defense over the years but there may be light at the end of the tunnel on that front. The current champion Seahawks built their team on coverage of a type that I wouldn't have thought possible in this era. Although the pre season officiating had me scared, the week one officiating was actually quite good in the games I saw. Getting rid of Goodall is another reason for hope, provided his replacement isn't worse than he is.

+1

I still have the passion for it...Look forward to each season and every week during. I hope it stays that way for me - would hate to feel like many here...

In comment 11857087 SanFranGiantsFan said:

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These threads always crack me up. If we were good, these threads wouldn't exist.

Not at all. Seriously, I hate the fact that seemingly every other week some other player in the NFL is accused of a crime or gets suspended for violating the drug policy.

Dave Diehl was a warrior for THIS team. And he was dumb enough to get a DUI late in his career.And that pisses me off because a guy like that should know, but still messes up. And, maybe it's me, but that makes me annoyed at the whole NFL.

While I appreciate the need to ensure player safety, the rules have shifted to basically nullify defense and insert the refs into too many critical plays. Its not a question of "if", but "when" a game will have all momentum shifted due to a questionable call.

Add to it a presentation that appeals to the lowest common denominator and 8 hours of pre-game shows that detail such thrilling topics as the recent bowel movements of the head coaches around the league and its just overkill. There's no intelligent conversation in sports media or coverage of the sport, just caricatures making bombastic statements or washed up players talking about Fantasy value of the 4th receiver in Jacksonville.

The mantra of "Too much of a good thing..." holds true for the NFL - its becoming overexposed and the coverage is too focused on peripherals and dramatics, along with a pretty significant drop in the product on the field.

I've watched maybe 3 quarters combined of football total this season.

My desk at my office faces a TV that has CNN on all day. That's just how it is, CNN all day.

Every 15 minutes, for the past 3 days, I've been forced to acknowledge the Ray Rice scandal. So every 15 minutes, I hear the latest (or not) about Ray Rice, including how a few guys currently playing in the NFL have been accused or convicted of domestic abuse, and continue to play. And, lists of player who have been arrested have been discussed during these segments.

That's just one media outlet. I can't watch ESPN, I don't sign onto to here at work, or si.com or espn.com. And this situation still turns me off to the NFL. People can consume all of this information and still say, yeah I'll watch? Really?

In comment 11857411 InTikiITrust said:

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In comment 11857087 SanFranGiantsFan said: Quote: These threads always crack me up. If we were good, these threads wouldn't exist. Not at all. Seriously, I hate the fact that seemingly every other week some other player in the NFL is accused of a crime or gets suspended for violating the drug policy. Dave Diehl was a warrior for THIS team. And he was dumb enough to get a DUI late in his career.And that pisses me off because a guy like that should know, but still messes up. And, maybe it's me, but that makes me annoyed at the whole NFL.

What you're getting at is the realization that you've invested rather a lot of emotional energy in an illusion. You don't actually know any of these players, and if you did, you'd probably think that a whole lot of them were assholes.

I don't like the penalties, if it gets worse it might make me stop watching. For instance, if the preseason calls made it into the regular season that would be it for me. If the league keeps going down this path I could see it no longer being enjoyable in 5-10 years. For now it's still something I look forward too.

I like the addition of the Thursday game on national TV it gives me something to watch if nothing is going on. Same with MNF and I still devote Sunday to football (unless something else really awesome is going on).

and fantasy football have all affected the NFL for the worse, IMO.

sure, wish we could get back to a little more balance between run and pass... but its still an exciting game to watch. And its sure as fuck a much better way to spend a sunday afternoon and evening than what I do in other seasons.

I'm not as emotional about the team right now - but that's because like the Mets in baseball, I know my team isnt very good at the moment. Not worth an emotional investment. Same thing will happen when NYR inevitably decline in a few years.

Finally, everyone blames fantasy for the rule changes... but guys don't get points for defensive penalties. Feel like a lot of these rules to 'neuter' the defense would be better with some common sense rules adjustments.

glaring example - illegal contact should not be an automatic first down. Obviously. Cmon now.

I have with the NFL. Just absurd penalties derailing the game's integrity. It also ruins the pace of the game.

Add in how the commissioner goes about his job and my only interest level is the Giants, and watching my fantasy players.

Casually watching a game isn't something I can do anymore unless its an absolutely premier matchup.

Yes, we all know about the negatives, and I especially agree that the constant rule changes are frustrating.

But, there's more football on TV than ever before. And the coverage is better than ever. The players are incredible. What football fan doesn't want to watch Megatron or Peyton (in the regular season) or Patrick Peterson or Adrian Peterson? What fan or the game doesn't want to see what Chip Kelly or Sean Peyton is gonna dial up on Sunday? Think of the amazing tailgating we all do across the nation. There's full coaches game tape online. There's multiplayer Madden with real players. There's round the clock football on HDTV. There's sports talk radio. There's things like BBI where all Giants fan can join together and discuss politics all year.

Seriously, its like that comedian a couple years ago who made the point about how amazing it is to be alive in today's advanced society. Hey, it ain't perfect, but I'm not watching the Giants on some tiny little black and white TV in a department store either.

why some have a hard on for fantasy football. It has no effect on the game. Do you really think the NFL sat down and discussed rules changes to benefit fantasy football?! If so, I think you're the one living a fantasy. They may have discussed rules changes that they (mistakenly) thought would make the game more fun to watch, but to benefit fantasy players? Seriously? There's lots to not like, but don't go looking for scapegoats to have it all make sense to you.

Those that continuously blame fantasy football for the game changing are just looking for a scape goat. It's just absurd. Anyone that plays fantasy could care less if the final scores are 45-40 or 23-20. As long as their team wins. This idea that the NFL wants more scoring to cater to fantasy football makes absolutely no sense. They want more scoring because today's generation is ADHD. It's the same reason baseball has lost fans. Americans can't just sit still and enjoy a sport anymore unless there is constant up and down. Nonstop action or else they fall asleep.

I would in fact say the opposite. Fantasy Football is the biggest reason that the game is staying afloat. With the interest coming from FF players, the N fL would be in serious trouble. But again, FF players don't want or need more offense. They just want their teams players to do better than the opponents. I play FF and I'd rather watch 17-13 defensive battles any day, as long as it's high quality football.

..now its about pre-game shit shows (with ex-jocks who can't read a teleprompter, bad suits, stupid special effects, and bimbos that have no place on any football field), rule changes that eliminate the "no prisoners" mantra of yester-year, and the never ending male impotency and female problem commercials that make me puke.

I really do not enjoy anything outside the game itself...everything else could disappear and we'd all be better off.

Which ive had every year since 02. Then sunday came around and I caved. Luckily I got a sweet deal. Bottom line, there is nothing id rather do on a sunday between the hours of 1 and 7:30 than flip around the 700s watching my football. Yea there are things I dont like, but its still 1/1a for me with the nba

my interest in primetime standalone games is more matchup dependant than ever though. I used to be automatically in, thats not so anymore. The excessive commercials just drive me nuts. I dont have to deal with that on sunday afternoons with the volume of action and options. And thursday night football has never felt natural to me.

The quality is terrible, mostly based on the short week. But I must admit, a can't think of anything I'd rather be watching as the game is being played. It's football man.

Goodell has ruined the beauty of the game and the commercials are ridiculous. It pays to tape the game just to zap them

game has changed from the one I played and loved it's still the best game on the planet. I will watch any kind of football. Anytime... anywhere.

That being said... the NFL is tinkering too much with the product. I was fine with the rule changes for the blows to the head because in this sport safety should be paramount. The changes that bug me are the ones that directly affect the flow of the game. Defenders can't do anything to receivers anymore without being flagged for it. QB's are practically untouchable. It's just too much.

Quite like 3 to 4pm on a sunday when all those 1pm games are coming down to crunch time and you have the option to view any one of them, with the ability to almost completely avoid commercials. To a much lesser extent 615 to 715 too (fewer games in that window)

to me that is the nfl at its best. Always has been

In comment 11857337 DP said:

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I'm with you. I've dropped Suday Ticket. Didn't even try to bargain them down. Spend the weekend watching Barclay's Premier League in the morning and early afternoon. If there is a really goo game o I may wtch, but being in Jacksonville Fl. I see a lot of Jaguars, Bucs and Falcons. Spend my im by th pool. and In comment 11857010 Red Dog said: Quote: I've got better things to do with my time.

Same here, interestingly enough the EPL has taken over as my 'must see' watching now. Although this has a lot to do with my son playing soccer for 6 months a year. The games are fairly interesting and they are OVER in two hours. It helps that the schedule makers have clearly worked with the broadcasting partners to put more emphasis on the top 5-6 teams, so they get largely their own time slots and full coverage here in the States.

So even if I go down to the local Arsenal bar here in Baltimore (it's in Fells Point), I'm gone and back in 3 hours - unlike when I go to the Giants game, and I'm gone 5-6 hours, unless the team gets blown out and I leave early.

One of these is much easier to pass by the wife.

...if not for this site I probably would have already stopped watching. I miss a lot of games due to my work schedule, so that doesn't help either. The rules that take away from the defense have really hurt my enjoyment when I do watch. The increased rules that cause the inconsistency of officiating doesn't help. The broadcasts that often ignore the fact that there is a game being played, especially the prime time games make me shut it off. The way the league is run annoys me. The cash grab of the owners. One of the last straws for me was being on the waiting list for season tickets since I was a kid and finally getting informed that I can buy them only to find out I had to buy a PSL. I said "so I have to purchase this PSL for the right to spend my money on your tickets?", I told them to shove it.

The NBA lost me in the early 90s because of the obvious different rules for different players and I can't enjoy a sport without integrity. The NHL lost me because I couldn't keep track with the constant labor disputes, I found other things to do and never went back. MLB lost me mostly because watching the Yankees and how they did business made me sick and I couldn't bring myself to root for anybody else. I do still enjoy watching the occasional random game as I love the sport, I just to follow the standings or the season. I go to a lot of minor league games too. The NFL is slowly pushing me away mostly because the games are becoming unwatchable and unless the Giants are one of the teams they are unwatchable.

So, I think the NFL owes Eric a little something because if this site were to go down, I will lose whatever little interest I have left.

NFL: Not what it used to be, the empire has already peaked
MLB: Slowly dying, way too slow and boring
NBA: Boring and predictable, too much about individuals
CFB: The NCAA is an utter joke
CBB: The talent is worse than ever due to early departures

So the really huge sports in this country all have a lot of haters and are considered to be on the decline if anything. The NHL and EPL both seem to be trending upwards but neither of those 2 sports are quite as popular across the country. Both are pretty damn big in the Northeast, hockey has the North Mid-West and soccer has the Pacific Northwest. But overall their ratings fall below the other sports mentioned. I'm also a NASCAR fan and I can tell you that this sport is also dying in terms of popularity. Golf is losing steam without Tiger and Tennis is going to be in trouble once Nadal/Federer retire.

But why stop there...

Pop Music: Sucks, not what it used to be
Rap Music: Sucks, not what it used to be
Rock Music: Sucks, not what it used to be
Country: Sucks, like it always has

Movies: Sucks, not what they used to be


So basically everything these days has lost it's heart and is overproduced, over-commercialized, and not what it used to be. That's what it sounds like.

So what do you guys think is actually peaking in 2014?

.

god damn...and if you want to watch a good defensive game just watch any team vs the Giants offense

In comment 11857884 JoeD1 said:

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god damn...and if you want to watch a good defensive game just watch any team vs the Giants offense

Go suck Shady's dick, ******.

it used to be, but I'm still OK with it. For now.

In comment 11857874 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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So basically everything these days has lost it's heart and is overproduced, over-commercialized, and not what it used to be. That's what it sounds like.

I think you have summed up the current state of affairs quite nicely. The added benefit of all these things is that I spend much less time watching crappy movies and sports or caring about scores, and spend a lot more time with my family and friends. For somebody with as little time as I have, I have found it much more rewarding. So, I would say that has peaked.

Competition for roster spots has never been this fierce, its more of a global game than ever by far. This had pushed the quality of the average nba player to greater heights than ever before. And all of this talent influx has occured over a span where the nba has expanded less than any other sport (only added 1 team since 1996. The skill level has never been better, the average player can handle and shoot it at a higher level than ever, and is a better athlete. Defense has never been more stressed and complex despite errant misconceptions. The only complaint id have is the imbalance of the conferences, but the quality of play has never been higher

I'll say this:

My son and I were watching the game last night and when Big Ben got driven into the turf we both let out a huge "HOLY SHIT! THAT WAS SOME SHOT!"

Then the flag came out of Hochuli's pocket and we both said, "ARE YOU SHITTING ME?"

When we calmed down, we realized that with today's rules, it was indeed a penalty. We had no doubt that the guy who made the hit thought the 15 yards was worth it.

Not thrilled about it, but what can I do? I'll keep watching as best I can. The state of the Giants has me a bit more concerned.

Whenever its competative.

But I now make sure not to watch anyother games. Anything is better than that crap

taken away all contact, forcing officials to make more arbitrary and necessarily more bad calls; b) how weak the rivalries are compared to in the past; and c) how players not organizations run the game and therefore determine which teams will be good or not. Instead of rooting for organizational competency, its more about the innate attractiveness of your city to the worlds best players and their ability to recruit other best players.

I have my issues with the direction the league is trending and all, but at the end of the day, I still love the NFL. I still look forward to Sundays and get juiced up for the Giants.

Sundays are a whole fucking lot better when you can watch football all day.

There is so much misguided in that post

if its not about organizational competency and all about big cities, remind me which defending champion from the glamor capital of the world (san antonio) has won more games than anyone since the turn of the century, in addition to 5 titles? Its never been more about both.

Bigtime players have changed teams either through free agency or forced trades, altering the leagues landscape, for the better part of the last 40 years. If you pose that as a new complaint, you arent paying attention.

Because I didnt want to add another post... but ill make it short because I dont want to derail

There was no san antonio before san antonio, that has only shown to be possible in this era in the nba. A team like them from a market like that having this sort of a dynastic run. And theyve done it because there is more talent than ever out there and theyve scoured the globe to find it. This is an era where a good organization has a big hand up. Sure a megastar changes a franchises fortune overnight, but that has always been the case and doesnt guarentee anything with a lack of organizational competence.... see lebron in cleveland 1.0

In comment 11858009 MarshallOnMontana said:

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A team like them from a market like that having this sort of a dynastic run.

San Antonio: pop. 1.41 million
Pittsburgh: pop. 305,000
Green Bay: pop. 104,000, and if you want to add in Milwaukee, be my guest. That adds 598,000, still well below San Antonio's population.

by population. Not what I would describe as a small market. I lived down there and it feels like a small city, which is what most visitors believe it is, but it is not a small city.

I wasnt comaring the nfl and nba. I was comparing the nba to itself over time

as for population size, I think san antonio ranks in the 40s in market size, theres a reason the other sports have shied away so far. Its at best 3rd fiddle in its own state

Their 17-3 wild card beat down of Joe Montana's 49ers. You had one of the great offensive squads of all time that could barely get a first down, two TDs, two FGs, a thrilling contest. All the key players had never worn another uniform and many are emblems of their franchises.

I can barely remember that Cardinals/Packers wild card scoring f***fest from a couple of years ago. By the end of it (who won again?), I wanted it to be over. All the players were interchangeable (well, not Aaron Rogers but everyone else) parts of an entertainment product.

That's my image of the two eras.

In comment 11857874 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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NFL: Not what it used to be, the empire has already peaked MLB: Slowly dying, way too slow and boring NBA: Boring and predictable, too much about individuals CFB: The NCAA is an utter joke CBB: The talent is worse than ever due to early departures So the really huge sports in this country all have a lot of haters and are considered to be on the decline if anything. The NHL and EPL both seem to be trending upwards but neither of those 2 sports are quite as popular across the country. Both are pretty damn big in the Northeast, hockey has the North Mid-West and soccer has the Pacific Northwest. But overall their ratings fall below the other sports mentioned. I'm also a NASCAR fan and I can tell you that this sport is also dying in terms of popularity. Golf is losing steam without Tiger and Tennis is going to be in trouble once Nadal/Federer retire. But why stop there... Pop Music: Sucks, not what it used to be Rap Music: Sucks, not what it used to be Rock Music: Sucks, not what it used to be Country: Sucks, like it always has Movies: Sucks, not what they used to be So basically everything these days has lost it's heart and is overproduced, over-commercialized, and not what it used to be. That's what it sounds like. So what do you guys think is actually peaking in 2014?

Exactly. This is 90% people getting older and 10% any changes that have happened in the sport. And there's always some factor of somebody's favorite team not being good that's layered into each of those.

Personally, I had a great time watching football on Sunday. There were plenty of interesting games at 1, several of them with exciting endings. I wasn't too into the 4 PM games, mainly because there were only two of them.

Sports always change a little bit over time. Even baseball, probably the most consistent sport over the years, has changed with more pitching changes, less emphasis on stealing, bunting, etc. The much bigger difference is in people's tastes and priorities. As people get older, they almost always invest less time in watching sports.

I still watch a lot of football, but I'm less emotional about the Giants than I used to be (and honestly, I do miss that sometimes). But it's not because of illegal contact penalties or Roger Goddell. It's because I'm older and not the same person that I was when I was 15 or 25 years old.

there are still plenty of low scoring games in the NFL now. Lots of people, including lots of people on BBI, seem to think that they're boring.

San Antonio metro area is 26th in the country. It's kind of an odd place - the vast majority of the population of the metro area is in the city itself.

San antonio being a small market is not something one can have an opinion on. The same way you cant have an opinion on wheter or not its raining. Facts are facts, san antonio is a bottom 3 nba media market and around 40th overall

you're right to point to the "get off my lawn" aspect of grumpiness of NFL complaints. On the other hand, some things do decline (like Detroit and alternative music) over time.

So how do you judge whether it's the perceiver rather than the perceived that has changed? Honest question.

Milwaukee, New Orleans, Indianapolis, OKC, Memphis, Cleveland, Salt Lake City and Sacramento all have smaller MSAs than San Antonio.

In comment 11858097 MarshallOnMontana said:

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San antonio being a small market is not something one can have an opinion on. The same way you cant have an opinion on wheter or not its raining. Facts are facts, san antonio is a bottom 3 nba media market and around 40th overall

sorry, but I am ignorant of how they rank "media markets". Or even what is meant by that term. I was only talking about the population of the city, it is one of the largest cities in the country based on population.

I love my giants and I love the league.

I absolutely hate commercials. That being said... The Redzone channel has cured all that. I get to watch non-stop football, commercial free for 7 hours on Sundays.

That coupled with fantasy football... I'm in heaven during football season.

I'm disgusted by certain player behavior... But that doesn't affect my love of the game.

I dont know about that. This from the biggest sports television ratings site on the net.
scroll down - ( New Window )

I wonder how they calculate those numbers. The San Antonio MSA is 2.3 million people but their TV market size is only 845K?

When the giants aren't playing is the greatest thing since free internet porn. Anyone who doesn't love sitting in front if the tube enjoying the RZC just doesn't like football anymore.

In comment 11858100 cosmicj said:

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you're right to point to the "get off my lawn" aspect of grumpiness of NFL complaints. On the other hand, some things do decline (like Detroit and alternative music) over time. So how do you judge whether it's the perceiver rather than the perceived that has changed? Honest question.

That could be a real philosophy-style question and you could end up in a real subjective place where there isn't really an objective measure of "quality". And I do think that's mostly true - it's mostly subjective. It's hard to make an evidence-based argument that between NFL 2014, NFL 1998, and then throw in say, MLB 1989, MLB 2014, etc. Or to be more abstract, is French League One soccer better than the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series? Or the PGA tour?

Mostly it just comes down to what you like. Are boxing or horse racing "worse" than they were 50 years ago? Maybe an argument could be made, but they sure look pretty similar if you're just watching an event.

I think one can ask themselves:

- Do I like it?
- Do people in general like it?
- Are there some objective good things in the league?

Questions 1 and 2 basically answer themselves (1 is your opinion, 2 is "yes" about the NFL right now).

3, of course is yes, but how do you compare it to other times and places? I don't know. There are obviously some great players in the league that are fun to watch. There are some great games and some stinkers. There's probably an alternate reality where Rashad Jennings is the best RB in the NFL, Carson Palmer is the best QB, etc. That would be an objectively worse league. And if there were 3 RBs better than Adrian Peterson, that would a better league. But I'm not sure that means that much. I do think this type of "analysis" works in the NBA because it's so star-driven, but it's much tougher for any other sport.

If I were asked, "was baseball better in 1989 or 2014," I'd instinctively say "1989". Because I really liked baseball back then and I don't like it that much now. If I thought about for a minute though, I'd say my answer is BS. Sure, I could come up with some rationalizations to support my position, but not really any objective evidence (aside from baseball being generally less popular). All it is is that I liked it more when I was in 7th grade than I do now.

somewhat. Let's face it - KOs are a joke now. I understand that it's for player safety, and I'd be OK with them eliminating them knowing that fewer guys will die from CTE or suffer in old age, but that doesn't mean the sport doesn't become a bit less enjoyable at the same time.

I hate the rule changes meant to bolster offense. I think I'm not alone there based on the feedback the league got during the preseason.

Broadcasts have practically become a joke, because they're trying to appeal to a mainstream audience. That's degraded the product somewhat, and when you do that for the sole purpose of increasing your audience at the expense of the viewers it's disappointing.

Finally - they really need to increase the roster size. I keep repeating this, but I think this really hurts the NFL. A slightly larger roster would immeasurably improve the product on the field, IMO. Team depth would be improved, guys on the fence might not be rushed back from injury. You'd help player longevity, without a doubt. Instead, you are paper thin at so many positions that the wrong guy gets hurt (and I'm not talking about QB only here) and the season goes into the tank. Why? The league is making money hand over fist, add a few more inexpensive heads to the bottom of the roster and give teams a fighting chance against the injury bug.

roster sizes is a really good idea. There's barely any downsides to it and plenty of benefits.

has been damaged in this era. Football is not in good hands right now.

you've been away awhile. All ok?

Yep! I've recently moved and am very busy with work. But things are good! Thanks for asking, I hope all is well with you

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. For your second question - do people like it? - I'd substitute in "does the hardcore fan like it?"

In comment 11857781 EricNY33 said:

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QB's are practically untouchable. It's just too much.

This one never bothered me too much. I get why other NFL players would be envious of the QBs as the rules and emphasis on passing has led to QBs getting paid multiples more now than other positions....

but look at the Rams the past few years as an example of how ugly and boring football becomes when backup and 3rd string QBs start getting involved.

In comment 11858175 jcn56 said:

Quote:

Finally - they really need to increase the roster size. I keep repeating this, but I think this really hurts the NFL. A slightly larger roster would immeasurably improve the product on the field, IMO. Team depth would be improved, guys on the fence might not be rushed back from injury. You'd help player longevity, without a doubt. Instead, you are paper thin at so many positions that the wrong guy gets hurt (and I'm not talking about QB only here) and the season goes into the tank. Why? The league is making money hand over fist, add a few more inexpensive heads to the bottom of the roster and give teams a fighting chance against the injury bug.

Could be wrong but i never got the impression that roster sizes were about saving costs. Teams have large practice squads. I thought smaller roster sizes were about giving those practice squad players opportunity to join other NFL rosters as positions opened up around the league.

for a PS player is much less than a player on the active roster (recalling from memory, less than $10k a week versus $420k a year).

It's definitely about the money IMO, and it's hurting the league. I was originally surprised that the NFLPA didn't push harder for increased roster sizes during the last CBA discussions, until it was obvious how badly they were screwed overall.

there were some incredible playoff games last year. SF@GB, how about the NFC title game? There is still some great football being played and I fucking love it.

Does the overexposure get annoying? Of course it does. I thought the TNF set was obnoxiously over the top and I do think the NFL is trending too offensively.

I still love NFL Sundays though.