"Sources told FOX 26 Sports Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson has been indicted in Montgomery County for reckless or negligent injury to a child."
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/26520182/vikings-star-rb-adrian-peterson-indicted-in-child-injury-case#.VBNYGbapZQ0.twitter - (
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With indictment Peterson will have to turn himself in and thus his status for this weekend is now unclear
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So is this a kid with another GF/wife?
I think this is going back to his child that was murdered? That's why I so confused
and that child didn't live in texas where he has been indicted.
Most chilling:
"Once source says there are photos of the childs injuries now in the possession of investigators with the Montgomery County Sheriffs Office."
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Or not...I thought the insinuation was that this was related to the earlier death of his child. Clearly not the case.
Update: Sources say Peterson was first no billed by the grand jury when the prosecutor first presented this case but the District Attorneys office took it a second time and this time the panel in Montgomery County accepted the criminal charge.
Update: Brady Fitzgerald with the Montgomery County Sheriffs office says they investigated Peterson for injury to a child and then turned the case over to the District Attorney to present to a grand jury. However, Fitzgerald says Peterson has not been arrested.
The attorney representing Peterson is expected to release a statement soon!
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From the charges it seems clear that he did not put his hands on any kid
I guess when my mom whipped my ass with a belt for forging her name several times in 5th grade, I could've called the authorities on her.
From the charges it seems clear that he did not put his hands on any kid
In the article sphinx posted, it clearly states that AP allegedly BEAT his son...
UPDATE4: According to Ian Rapaport, the investigation has been going on for some time. Peterson testified to the Grand Jury weeks ago.
UPDATE5: And Ian also reports that the charges stem from Adrian disciplining his son with a switch.
I uh evidently need to clarify that a switch is a thin tree branch.
UPDATE6: From Isiah Carey at Fox 26 again:
Brady Fitzgerald with the Montgomery County Sheriffs office says they investigated Peterson for injury to a child and then turned the case over to the District Attorney to present to a grand jury. However, Fitzgerald says Peterson has not been arrested.
We should also expect a statement from an attorney soon.
I guess when my mom whipped my ass with a belt for forging her name several times in 5th grade, I could've called the authorities on her.
This becomes such a grey area. How old is the child? did it say? If he is an infant than there is no excuse. If it is a ten year old for example with a more bruised ego than bottom and maybe reported it in school to get even with his father for something then I would want to wait and see exactly what the facts are before forming an opinion.
Did the authorities normally have pictures of your injuries when you were spanked?
Yeah, I was agreeing with you. That was why I offered up the possibility of a more bruised ego than bottom. We just don't know. If he injured this boy he should be in trouble but we just don't know enough know.
This is also why Goodell should just resign.
He is going to come down hard on Peterson due to getting it wrong with Rice.
That grandparents beat their kids is way overblown.
nobody made you buckle your kids in a car
blacks had separate fountains
you could use the belt on your kids
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could this be simply of the "spanking" variety, that we've all been on the receiving end of?
Did the authorities normally have pictures of your injuries when you were spanked?
Nope. But I'm sure I had some on my ass that they would have taken notice of, if somebody sent the authorities some pics. I'm sure every single person on this site can say the same. We don't know the details, and I just asked a question. It's certainly possible,since it never mentions where the injuries are. And I'm not condoning it, either way.
I love this game, but some of the people playing it are complete jackasses.
Having no bearing on Peterson's case, I can assure you that's not the case.
It was one of those Hot Wheels tracks that we used to link together to make a race course.
Memories.......
How times have changed.
Peterson may have went a bit overboard here. Shouldn't be opening up cuts on your kid. Some punishment will be necessary but I don't think jail time. But then again, it is Texas...
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At least 10 on the one leg. And the news broadcast is showing more pictures, with lashes on other parts of his body.
Absolutely disgusting..
Bye bye Peterson. You and Rice can share a few beers and reminisce about a avatar that once was. Your playing days are history.
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On his frigging balls even...that's beyond fucked up. There should be capital punishment for shit like this.
Jerick will be the 3rd down back and is the more explosive player. Just a matter of time before he take over as the every down back.
Reading that report makes me want to beat the shit out of that illiterate, back woods piece of shit. What a fucking waste on society thats gotten to live the privileged life.
Well, at least it was for a good reason...
$2M and a 6th?
close to privates. ..might have hit there too..
Test him for roids....thats a crime
Always remember
Someone shackle this guy ASAP
4 years old
Wrap your head around that
For anyone who says 'when I was a kid I got whooped'
Good for you. It's 2014 and this isn't acceptable anymore
Jerick will be the 3rd down back and is the more explosive player. Just a matter of time before he take over as the every down back.
Wow congrats you really have your priorities straight..
That doesn't make it right. And while my mother would slap us, we were never 'beaten' or spanked. And my father never hit us.
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Asiata is trending in most fantasy football waiver wire lists right now. Although I think the better pickup will be McKinnon.
Jerick will be the 3rd down back and is the more explosive player. Just a matter of time before he take over as the every down back.
Wow congrats you really have your priorities straight..
After seeing the kids picture and reading the details, I think what Peterson did is sick and far worse then what Michael Vick did and Peterson deserves jail time.
As for my fantasy football comment, I didn't want to start yet "another" fantasy thread and included them here on Peterson's thread. So sorry if anyone took offense to it. I figured we could discuss both topics at the same time.
"Peterson also allegedly said via text message to the childs mother that he felt bad after the fact when I notice the switch was wrapping around hitting I (sic) thigh and also acknowledged the injury to the childs scrotum in a text message, saying, Got him in nuts once I noticed. But I felt so bad, n Im all tearing that butt up when needed! I start putting them in timeout. N save the whooping for needed memories!
An adult that does that to a child should be behind bars and barred from being alone with children ever again.
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"It is important to remember that Adrian never intended to harm his son and deeply regrets the unintentional injury."
Precisely because he is a criminal lawyer.
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Many posters over 50 were probably beat hard enough by their father so severe that they'd be jailed if it happened today.
Same here. Sure I got slapped once or twice by my Mom but that was it. If anyone here got beaten repeatedly with foreign objects by their parents, they were abusing you . Period.
That doesn't make it right. And while my mother would slap us, we were never 'beaten' or spanked. And my father never hit us.
They let Donte Stallworth play again. Josh Brent is about to play again. Those guys are scrubs. Dany Heatley is still playing hockey. Alfredo Simon is facing rape allegations 3 years after going on trial for manslaughter. We all know about Mike Vick. Kobe Bryant is BELOVED. I just doubt sports leagues will ever totally remove guys for committing crimes.
ESPN had this poll (with a ridiculously small number polled) in which the overwhelming majority of people said the Rice incident hasn't made them less likely to watch. People raise hell, but they don't stop watching. Until that happens, guys will get second chances.
I agree...I got quite a few beating that would have certainly got my father in trouble today.
To the extent that it leaves scars and/or marks like those in the pictures, then yes.
Exactly. I'm going to wait and see what actually happened when more information is released.
I just had someone on Facebook. ' I was switched all the time when I was a kid!'
This. I'm just not reading the rest of this thread and pictures.
Shit. This is deplorable. Sad. This isn't discipline, this is abuse in the truest sense.
This is far worse than what Rice did.
AP should be suspended faster then Rice was. Fuck.
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Many posters over 50 were probably beat hard enough by their father so severe that they'd be jailed if it happened today.
Exactly. I'm going to wait and see what actually happened when more information is released.
If those pictures are accurate I can't imagine any circumstances that could ever justify it. I really don't need to see more than the photos, but I will allow for the chance of there being some mistake and those not being pictures of his son.
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There will be people defending this.
I just had someone on Facebook. ' I was switched all the time when I was a kid!'
Maybe they hadn't seen the pictures. Their interpretation of being "switched" may be a sting to the bottom and nothing more. Ask them if they have seen the pictures.
You can break the cycle though. And with time to reflect and a generation of being in the american culture, my mom and aunts look back at that with regret, they would never think of laying a finger on one of their grandkids. Me and my cousins look back and laugh at the shared beatdowns. What peterson did was wrong, and its easy to just vilify him. Its simple to just paint him as some monster. But I think its more complex than that. I dont find what he did as appalling as ray rice. And I find it easier to believe that adrian petersons behavior is probably more open to rehabilitation. He was very likely on the other side growing up, and learned this behavior as a teaching tool (as misguided as it may be). I dont think its as simple as he just gets off beating on kids.
Went to Catholic school and caught a few good ones there as well.
As a parent now.....it's never been an option. You can't do that in 2014......and really why would you?
but I will stop short of coming to the conclusion that peterson is just some twisted animal who gets off on beating kids. Thats incredibly shortsighted and easy. There is more to this misguided behavior than that
AMEN
he's 100% forthcoming about every single detail and almost boastful of the job he's doing raising his kids.
Punishment definitely needs to be handed out, and I sure it will, but if you read more about this it sounds like he truly doesn't know right from wrong. He acknowledges he went too far "because the switch hit the kids nuts once" and things like that.
it's almost sad (for him and more for the 4-year old and other kids he's raising or helping to raise).
Now this story comes out and everything I now think even less of him. It is shameful on his part. He's a dirt bag if this is true, and I believe it because this is an indictment and not just general police handy work.
I grew up in a household where spankings occurred if you misbehaved badly. Im a firm believer in it, and I supported my parents in their decision to spank us. It was never over the top and excessive but enough to demonstrate a point and to reinforce roles within the family.
This is far worse than what Rice did.
<sigh> ... It is horrendous. But to use this as a way to downplay knocking a woman unconscious by punching her in the face - is exactly the type of attitude that is disgraceful. There is no reason to say one is worse than the other. They are both horrendous. They are both inexusable. They are both criminal.
Exactly. Whipping kids with a switch is abusive, plain and simple.
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Shit. This is deplorable. Sad. This isn't discipline, this is abuse in the truest sense. This is far worse than what Rice did.
<sigh> ... It is horrendous. But to use this as a way to downplay knocking a woman unconscious by punching her in the face - is exactly the type of attitude that is disgraceful. There is no reason to say one is worse than the other. They are both horrendous. They are both inexusable. They are both criminal.
Yup
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discipline and abuse is, but I think it's fair to say that this is well over that line.
Exactly. Whipping kids with a switch is abusive, plain and simple.
Would almost rather him hit the kid once rather then keep beating him over and over with a switch. A 4 year old can't defend himself.
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There is little doubt in my mind that as bad as this looks and sounds, adrian peterson did this for reasons he felt would ultimately benefit his son. That may be tough for people to believe, and he was obviously mistaken for feeling that way. But if we are to compare this situation and a ray rice, I find that a relevant distinction. This is very likely how he himself was raised with this as a disciplinary tool. People often parent in a similar way to how they themselves were parented. If people just approach this from the angle that peterson is strictly a sick fuck, I think its a view that shows a lack of depth. As well as a lack of awareness for how widespread this is in a lot of family histories. Its a tactic that is less acceptable than ever and rightfully so. Its great that we as a society are attempting to stamp this out. But not every body who uses this disciplinary tool does it because beating on kids somehow gives them pleasure
I think anyone who could continue to whip the shit out of a 4-year old boy like that is a sick fuck. You could make the claim that his father turned him into a sick fuck by doing the same to him, but it doesn't change the fact that he's a sick fuck.
Yet, you laud David Diehl out to be some sort of hero and ultimate high character guy when he got a DUI and wiped out a couple parked cars in the process.
This has been one of the strangest beginnings of a football season that I've ever experienced. If a year ago I would've told you that a year from now Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson would be in serious trouble from not only the league but perhaps law enforcement as well because of violence, who would've believed me?
IF that method works it only works to instill fear/respect into your child to behave correctly when you are around.
It really is unnecessary though if you have communication skills and can teach a child with your experience rather than just beating them. SMH
Is that factual? Is that the way he was brought up.
I don't get this logic at all. If an employee or even the CEO or president of the company who manufactured your car or TV or any other product you own/use abused his kids, wife or even murdered them or anyone else, you're telling me you'd sell them or stop using them or stop "supporting" those companies or entire industries as you would the NFL? Rae Carruth hired someone to murder his pregnant wife & Jeremiah Parker was convicted of manslaughter in the death of a 4 year-old, but you didn't stop supporting football then. What makes this situation worse than those?
A certain % of people in every occupation do despicable & illegal things. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that athletes or entertainers in general do them more often than people in any other professions/occupations. If Joe Blow, your neighbor from up the block, did what Peterson or Rice did it not only wouldn't even make the news, you'd probably never even hear about it.
Considering this happened in Texas, not exactly known as a lenient state, & to a 4 year-old, & if it is proven that it happened numerous times before, my guess is Peterson will get 1-3 years in prison & many years of probation after that. I seriously doubt he plays another down of football.
IF that method works it only works to instill fear/respect into your child to behave correctly when you are around.
It really is unnecessary though if you have communication skills and can teach a child with your experience rather than just beating them. SMH
Perfect post.
Because those pictures & AP's admission of what he did do cause those injuries are WAAAAAAAAAAY more than sufficient for the NFL to decide that AP shouldn't be a part of a league that purports to be on the side of morality, lawfulness & righteousness.
I love the parsing & moral equivalence that some BBIers have done on this & other topics. If a grown man beats the living shit out of a young kid for something ridiculously trivial (or not), how the fuck does it make a difference as far as how anyone should view that man if he enjoyed it or just thought it was the right thing to do? Either way his moral compass is broken well beyond repair & he's a sick fuck. I'm not comparing AP to the likes of Dahmer, but Dahmer & his ilk didn't enjoy what they did either. Didn't make them 1 iota less sick fucks.
Excellent analysis and illustrates the danger that AP poses to his children.
That violence in ANY form (spanking or using objects) against one's kids & anyone else is most definitely learned behavior is why violence in ANY form against one's kids & anyone else is reprehensible & should be illegal for parents to do. It's also why capital punishment by the government is wrong, although I don't want to go there.
This has been one of the strangest beginnings of a football season that I've ever experienced. If a year ago I would've told you that a year from now Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson would be in serious trouble from not only the league but perhaps law enforcement as well because of violence, who would've believed me?
You are quickly becoming 1 of my favorite posters T-bone. Instead of all of the reactionary knee jerk coomnents saying he should be thrown in jail for life and he derives pleasure from beating children, you have presented a rational insightful opinion. I have s 9 year old boy and could not imagine ever causing those kind of injuries to him and if anyone else did I would want to kill them myself. However from what is being presented it seems like Peterson thought he was doing what was best for the child by teaching him a lesson. I don't agree with it but I was hit by a belt as a child and threatened with physical punishment and I understand the mentality. Granted my parents never beat me anywhere near that. Hasn't anyone ever heard the old line when someone was going to spank their child saying this is going to hurt you more than it hurts me. It seems obvious that Peterson thought he was doing what needed to be done for the benefit of the child. Please don't misunderstand and think I am agreeing with what he did because I am not. Spanking is one thing. Drawing blood is another. But what I am saying is this incident does not mean he is an incorigable monster. Rehabilitation and education would be more appropriate.
Regardless if we were beat like that, I never beat my kids and I don't know any other adults who have to this extent.
Exactly...I don't get this "Well I got beat 35 years ago by my dad so it's okaay this kid got hit with a switch"..
Oh, his lawyer said. Did his lawyer say he went through this ...
According to police reports, the child, however, had a slightly different story, telling authorities that "Daddy Peterson hit me on my face." The child also expressed worry that Peterson would punch him in the face if the child reported the incident to authorities. He also said that he had been hit by a belt and that "there are a lot of belts in Daddy's closet." He added that Peterson put leaves in his mouth when he was being hit with the switch while his pants were down. The child told his mother that Peterson "likes belts and switches" and "has a whooping room."
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I never thought it'd get to this point, but between having a watered down product, and all this off field stuff, I'm legitimately wondering if the NFL is a product I want to support.
I don't get this logic at all. If an employee or even the CEO or president of the company who manufactured your car or TV or any other product you own/use abused his kids, wife or even murdered them or anyone else, you're telling me you'd sell them or stop using them or stop "supporting" those companies or entire industries as you would the NFL? Rae Carruth hired someone to murder his pregnant wife & Jeremiah Parker was convicted of manslaughter in the death of a 4 year-old, but you didn't stop supporting football then. What makes this situation worse than those?
A certain % of people in every occupation do despicable & illegal things. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that athletes or entertainers in general do them more often than people in any other professions/occupations. If Joe Blow, your neighbor from up the block, did what Peterson or Rice did it not only wouldn't even make the news, you'd probably never even hear about it.
Considering this happened in Texas, not exactly known as a lenient state, & to a 4 year-old, & if it is proven that it happened numerous times before, my guess is Peterson will get 1-3 years in prison & many years of probation after that. I seriously doubt he plays another down of football.
It's not just the off field stuff, it's how this stuff is covered in media, it's a little much for me. My biggest issue has more to do with how the game has evolved as well, and the hypocrisy of feigning giving a shit about player safety while they're trying to extend the season to make a grab for more revenue.
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My initial impression was he pretty obviously was, because thats how it is in most of these cases. Then I later saw the lawyers statement where he does in fact mention that. This is learned behavior, most often passed down. And as much as we increasingly and rightfully look to evolve, this behavior can actually stem from good intentions, even though misguided
Oh, his lawyer said. Did his lawyer say he went through this ...
According to police reports, the child, however, had a slightly different story, [B]telling authorities that "Daddy Peterson hit me on my face." The child also expressed worry that Peterson would punch him in the face if the child reported the incident to authorities. He also said that he had been hit by a belt and that "there are a lot of belts in Daddy's closet." He added that Peterson put leaves in his mouth when he was being hit with the switch while his pants were down. The child told his mother that Peterson "likes belts and switches" and "has a whooping room."[B] Link - ( New Window )
Meh, no biggie. I'm sure Adrian has nothing but the best of intentions, whooping room, shoving leaves down his son's throat, and all.
THAT'S WHAT 4 YEAR OLDS DO. THEY PUSH AWAY ANOTHER KID BECAUSE THEY ARE IMPATIENT. THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE DISCIPLINE, IT REQUIRES VERBAL COMMUNICATION.
Maybe AP grew up in the former era, and he sure as shit had his kids in the latter. He might not be some kind of monster, but the detail in that report and the systematic way his discipline was handed out was/is pretty fuckin far from OK.
The legal issue needs to run its course, then the NFL should act accordingly, but since I'm only a juror in the court of public opinion, I'm pretty disgusted by the guy and he would not be playing on my team.
I doubt he absorbed or retained an ounce of anything that was taught to him.
Sense allows, however, for a distinction between shitty parent and sociopath. Peterson, based on the visual evidence (if that is indeed substantiated) is tending toward the latter. It takes a lot to truly be elevated as such, but once blood is drawn, and repeatedly so, we've moved decidedly beyond "spanking" bad parent territory and into "time to protect the kid from an objectively pernicious influence."
Too bad it's such a great player. I guess? The NFL is on a big time cold streak. Goodell, time for a spanking.
I liked when the "bad" NFL players just did a shitload of cocaine.
he is probably done for this season at a minimum. This is a brutal week for the nfl
But there is a huge difference between a smack on the butt and whats on display in those pictures. Thats abuse. Thats violence. Considering his statements since and its clear that you have a guy who really doesnt know where the line between discipline and abuse is. I dont even know what kind of man is capable of doing that to his children. I find it pretty pathetic though. He should face the same legal ramifications that any other POS who puts his hands on his kids like that faces. I dont know what kind of penalties he's facing but people go to prison for less every day. Some time in a box with nothing to do but think about whether he wants his children to love him or fear him might not be a bad idea.
Greg Hardy sounds worse than McDonald (and Rice) and has been found guilty, pending appeal. How that guy is allowed to play but AP isn't is hypocritical, but i guess that's a Vikings decision and not a league decision.
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is not a Sicilian immigrant. I don't give a fuck if he was beaten daily by his piece of shut father. He's a fucking criminal. This is not discipline in any civilized society.
Exactly...I don't get this "Well I got beat 35 years ago by my dad so it's okaay this kid got hit with a switch"..
I was thinking about this last night. The net is rife with this very sentiment. A cpl yrs ago there was a thread on here about a dad beating a boy with a belt and a # of posters said the same thing. I think we all want to believe our parents loved us and had our best intentions in mind at all times. The latter however, may not necessarily be true. There is a point where "For his own good" becomes an act of self serving animalistic rage. It satisfies a primal urge in the attacker and only serves to confuse the child who often still doesnt really know why what he/she did was wrong. No true lesson is learned, just more fear instilled. No parent really want their child to fear them - do they?
You can break the cycle though. And with time to reflect and a generation of being in the american culture, my mom and aunts look back at that with regret, they would never think of laying a finger on one of their grandkids. Me and my cousins look back and laugh at the shared beatdowns. What peterson did was wrong, and its easy to just vilify him. Its simple to just paint him as some monster. But I think its more complex than that. I dont find what he did as appalling as ray rice. And I find it easier to believe that adrian petersons behavior is probably more open to rehabilitation. He was very likely on the other side growing up, and learned this behavior as a teaching tool (as misguided as it may be). I dont think its as simple as he just gets off beating on kids.
There is so much in this post that I agree with, but I do think one point is being understated. I agree that this is probably a result of how he was brought up and I agree that the generations before us were way more physical with their children then they are now. That being said, there is still something inside of these people that allows them to do serious physical damage to a defenseless child. I also agree that Peterson probably thinks that he's doing the right thing and he's well within his rights, but he's wrong.
This isn't a debate about whether spanking a child is good or bad for them. This isn't your run of the mill spanking to teach a 4 year old not to do something. This is child abuse. Adrian Peterson didn't spank his son for saying a curse word. He whipped him with a branch that left long lasting scars. What kind of person thinks that's ok? Parents were more physical in years past, but whipping a 4 year old is child abuse in any generation and takes a special kind of person to do that.
I'm in the camp of what AP did was sick, abusive and completely unacceptable. On the other hand I don't think he did this for enjoyment but rather this is what he knew and he probably thought this was the best parenting he could do. As someone said earlier, he needs education and rehabilitation. The public raking and suspension he's going to get is going to be punishment.
So if you're the NFL what do you do? This is of course complicated by the timing of the Ray Rice situation. Clearly you have to do something. Do you suspend him indefinitely too? Ban him for life? Wait for the legal system?
In this case I would gather all of the facts and if it seems that this truly is APs idea of best parenting, I would use the newly implemented abuse policy and state that there is no room for child abuse in our society and league and AP is going to suspended for 6 games. I would force AP to publicly apologize and say he didn't realize what he did was wrong but now he knows and he'll never do it again. Then donate the salary that he loses from the suspension to child abuse prevention.
Ultimately AP should be able to play again and this is an opportunity to use a terrible situation for some good. This is an opportunity for the NFL to do what's right and come down harsh on AP but use it as a lesson for everyone watching.
If Goodell screws this us he's gone.
Wow, he wasn't evasive and openly admitted to whipping his little boy with a fucking stick? Let's give him a medal for being a sociopath as well as an ignorant criminal!
Wow, he wasn't evasive and openly admitted to whipping his little boy with a fucking stick? Let's give him a medal for being a sociopath as well as an ignorant criminal!
Well said Chris.
Wow, he wasn't evasive and openly admitted to whipping his little boy with a fucking stick? Let's give him a medal for being a sociopath as well as an ignorant criminal!
That first paragraph is spot on. I think people can understand why he's fucked up, but it doesn't change the fact that he's fucked up....and he's absolutely fucked up for thinking what he's doing is ok.
I completely agree. The NFL's poor handling of the entire Ray Rice situation is going to come back and bite them in the ass repeatedly.
The fact that Peterson is most likely abusing his child and thinks he's doing good, leads me to believe that he can be taught that it's not ok. A parent that has major anger issues and abuses their kids probably can't change and I'm hopeful AP is in the former category.
the point is that adrian petersons mindset is very likely more layered and complex than strictly being some deviant monster. thats a simple explanation for simple minds. and of course ap was wrong either way.
4 year olds are quite capable of being little shits
4 year olds are quite capable of being little shits
Four year olds can be little turds, to be sure, but they also don't understand punishment, physical or otherwise, particularly well, so as useless as is brutalizing anyone it is even less likely to effect the desired outcome on a child of that age.
4 year olds are quite capable of being little shits
Yea, so are 3 hour old "kids". Gimme a fucking break. What is the point of your comment? That you relate to the desire to beat the shit out of a 4 year old? If not, then what?
Goodell fucked all of this up sideways. Suspending a guy 2 games for KOing his fianc, then establishing 6 games as the policy, then indefinite when evidence of a crime you already knew about comes to light? How does he rationalize anything short of that for Peterson now?
A whooping room? If true, this goes a lot deeper than this one incident.
Four year olds can barely appreciate the connection between the behavior and the punishment. Yes you can punish them, but you can't punish them the way you can a six or a seven year old. You take away a seven year old's favorite toy as punishment, they scheme to get the thing back. You take away a three or a four year old's, they forget about it and find something else to fixate on.
Four year olds can barely appreciate the connection between the behavior and the punishment. Yes you can punish them, but you can't punish them the way you can a six or a seven year old. You take away a seven year old's favorite toy as punishment, they scheme to get the thing back. You take away a three or a four year old's, they forget about it and find something else to fixate on.
I appreciate your observation and it is undoubtedly correct in a theoretical sense. But I don't understand why this is even an issue for discussion. All I can visualize is the picture of that little boy - with a caption underneath talking about whether a four year old can benefit from discipline.
There are some pretty scary comments in this thread.
I mean it; the nfl shouldn't let him play another down again
Forget a year; forget ray rice
This is abhorrent
Yeah this goes way beyond "spanking" or any type of disciple. When he has a whooping room just for the purpose of beatings that is pretty scary stuff. And even if someone wanted to assume he got carried away and may not have realized just how much injury he was causing (which I don't buy anyway because of the amount) but how does a any father think that stuffing leaves in his sons mouth is normal or appropriate discipline? When a father is beating with a branch, drawing blood, stuffing leaves in the boys mouth and has a room named and dedicated for the purpose of doing those types of things. That is not a home, that is a house of horrors.
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but you are vastly understating the capabilities of a 4 year old.
4 year olds are quite capable of being little shits
Yea, so are 3 hour old "kids". Gimme a fucking break. What is the point of your comment? That you relate to the desire to beat the shit out of a 4 year old? If not, then what?
Its called a tangential discussion...happens all the time here
4 year olds are quite capable of being little shits
...
Its called a tangential discussion...happens all the time here
So, you saw the picture of the little boy and your response was to make a tangential comment that 4 year olds can be quite capable of being little shits.
Nice.
How many kids AP has sired?
How many kids AP has sired?
sphinx, I don't think that's fair. Presumably that reference is because mom is in another relationship and the boy has two mean who are father figures to him - and he needs a way to communicate which "father figure" he is talking about.
What I do think, however, is what I said before. Since there clearly is another man in the relationship, it wouldn't surprise me at all that AP administered this beating more of a way to demonstrate to that other "father figure" who is the "real father".
Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt
Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt
Sorry. I just find the comment offensive in the context of this thread. No different than the context on the Ray Rice threads when some posters felt compelled to talk about how women can cry wolf or even conduct beatings themselves. Like, yea, ok, that may be true, but wtf, context is everything.
The point being - while it may be true that 4 year olds can misbehave, there is a time and place for everything, and your timing was pretty poor. No 4 year old boy could ever do anything to warrant the beating depicted in that picture and so, in that context, your "observation" was a curious point to make in the time and place you made it - to say the least.
Wow, he wasn't evasive and openly admitted to whipping his little boy with a fucking stick? Let's give him a medal for being a sociopath as well as an ignorant criminal!
Great post.
try harder to find something to be outraged about
I took her comments to be more in reference to the more strident ones. Not yours.
Guilty conscience, perhaps?
LOL.
whoever you were talking about, how is that not to be taken as a shot at someones character and an insult? Its certainly not a productive comment, it doesnt add anything. How are you taken back by response in kind?
No, that's me. I had 6 cats, now I only have two. But no kids! Happy now?
Yup, Mommy totally owned someone on the interwebz today!
Fluffy.
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Same back at ya. Although ive always pictured you as the type with 8 cats, so my hope isnt needed
No, that's me. I had 6 cats, now I only have two. But no kids! Happy now?
I thought it was schnitzie who was the grande cat dame of bbi.
Wow, that's the angriest I've seen Berry. Epic takedown.
Don't mean to get in the way of your rant - but you are describing a two year old.
chris, awesome comment...it brought a little smile to an otherwise very depressing thread.
I think, very predictably so, people are trying too hard to find something offensive, when there is basically nothing there
But you can pat yourself on the back for finding a strawman where mine exist and for being a big tough internet man and picking on a girl. Maybe in a few years you can prove how tough you are by beating your kids!
Need a few more whacks at a punching bag?
this conversation is more nuanced though than a microsoft paint project, despite your attempt to simplify it to something in your wheel house
You do not, under any circumstances, despite however you may have been raised, ever take a 'switch' to a 4 year old and repeatedly beat them about the body for doing what 4 year olds do naturally.
End of story.
No nuance needed.
I do believe though that petersons behavior does indeed likely come from a very different place than say a ray rice, and is likely far more open to rehabilitation. Regardless of how bad it sounds, its very possible if not likely his intentions, however misguided, were for a greater good. I dont care if some people find that hard to grasp. And that doesnt make his actions any more excusable. It does give me high hope for rehabilitation though, and a hexitancy to just quickly dismiss him an evil monster
That doesn't change the fact that his actions are those of a monster.
You're just assuming that monsters can't change.
His other 22 kids should be warned.
His other 22 kids should be warned.
You can accept at a minimum what he has admitted to, the leaves in the mouth thing seems to have come from the child. It certainly could be true, but that is something that still needs to be proven or acknowledged before you take it into account when punishing him (criminally or by the league).
And in the end even that has nothing to do with this case. This is not a case of corporal punishment or traditional values or being old school. It's about cruelty and the ultimate betrayal of a child's trust. I'm glad you "get" why this fuckhead would stuff leaves in a 4 year old's mouth and whip him with a stick. You should be very proud that you can sink into the mind of a sociopath like in a Hannibal Lecter story. You think you are not defending his actions, but you really kind of are. As Radar said above, this is one of those stories where you think you'll see pretty broad agreement. But of course we have to have the contrarian view where people pat themselves on the back for understanding why someone does something so horrible. Personally I don't give a shit why. There is no reasonable excuse. There is no justification. I don't care if it happened to him of his father before him. You feel differently. Okay, whatever. At the end of the day there's a 4 year old kid with welts on his back and legs and nuts that rival 12 Years a Slave. Congratulations on understanding why that is. You rule.
His other 22 kids should be warned.
Only took 6 pages before some racism crept in. Nicely done!
22, though? That was a hyperbolic statement founded on racist stereotypes.
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you asshole. That guy fathered multiple children by multiple women. He's not a good person
22, though? That was a hyperbolic statement founded on racist stereotypes.
ummmmm... the only racism is by anyone thinking that comment is racist.
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according to the report he stuffed leaves in the kid's mouth then beat him so that bloody lines appeared on the child. I mean, what kind of person does that? AP is an evil guy.
His other 22 kids should be warned.
Only took 6 pages before some racism crept in. Nicely done!
Racist? How is that racist?
Yes, but in your small mind that is being racist.
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Same back at ya. Although ive always pictured you as the type with 8 cats, so my hope isnt needed
No, that's me. I had 6 cats, now I only have two. But no kids! Happy now?
Don't you mean Fuck trophies?
Good point that I didn't see made yet.
I really haven't read anything on this other than the switching. If he truly did stuff leaves in the kids mouth than I have to question everything I just wrote above. That just seems like an angry person taking it out on a defenseless child. Just inexcusable.
For the record, he's a piece of shit no matter what. The guy fathered several kids and isn't in their life at all. I have no idea how a person could do that to a kid.
Go get some air.
Solid priorities.
If you were insulted by my word choices and attempts at humor, by all means please do accept my apologies. But I kinda think you're more interested in creating those wacky strawmen you see around every corner than being indignant over my prose.
Keep on tilting at windmills, Quixote.
and the reason why I said I thought you wont come out and say it is because you know how offensive that term could be when hurled as an insult. Even more insulting to african americans than the targeted white individual. I dont think youre a racist though (not that you are breathing a sigh of relief at my judgement) , ive never seen a hint of that in reading your posts for a long time now. I just thought its pretty curious
It just felt fishy. But if its in the context I suspect, it would admittedly be way out of character for chris
im bowing out of this thread now.
It just felt fishy. But if its in the context I suspect, it would admittedly be way out of character for chris
im bowing out of this thread now.
MOM, thank you for explaining. I was just honestly curious and didn't realize the two of you knew each other.
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you asshole. That guy fathered multiple children by multiple women. He's not a good person
22, though? That was a hyperbolic statement founded on racist stereotypes.
oh really?
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 11859382 Bake54 said:
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you asshole. That guy fathered multiple children by multiple women. He's not a good person
22, though? That was a hyperbolic statement founded on racist stereotypes.
oh really? Link - ( New Window )
Buford, not surprised you need it spelled out for you. Yes, it is a hyperbolic statement founded on racist stereotypes specific to black men.
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This, this, this, and this X 1000
Being spanked or even hit with a belt when you were a kid and believing that that's proper or effective punishment is one thing.
Being brutally beaten as a child and doing the same to your own child is entirely something else. To beat anyone like that, much less a 4yr old, displays an incredible lack of empathy and emotional detachment.
His, "I was teaching him a lesson, that's how I was raised." is a bullshit rationalization.
Someone capable of doing that to their own child is obviously disturbed. Maybe he's disturbed because of the beatings he received, I dunno.
I firmly believe that a normal person's reaction to that sort of abuse is just the opposite of what AP is claiming. They become hyper sensitive to it, because they understand (empathy) how horrible it is to be on the receiving end of such abuse.
Fuck this guy. He needs to be locked up, and then he needs some serious psychological help.
@Adrian Peterson
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7:15 PM - 31 Aug 2013
@Adrian Peterson
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Help me help victims of child abuse and neglect. Please join me at my Eat Big, Give Big Texas BBQ on 9/10! Get tix http://bit.ly/166BNHw
7:15 PM - 31 Aug 2013
A little late, dickface.
Seems to me the best way AP could fight child abuse is to stay away from children.
Quote:
✔ @AdrianPeterson
@Adrian Peterson
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Help me help victims of child abuse and neglect. Please join me at my Eat Big, Give Big Texas BBQ on 9/10! Get tix http://bit.ly/166BNHw
7:15 PM - 31 Aug 2013
A little late, dickface.
Seems to me the best way AP could fight child abuse is to stay away from children.
2013
I'm in the camp of what AP did was sick, abusive and completely unacceptable. On the other hand I don't think he did this for enjoyment but rather this is what he knew and he probably thought this was the best parenting he could do. As someone said earlier, he needs education and rehabilitation. The public raking and suspension he's going to get is going to be punishment.
So if you're the NFL what do you do? This is of course complicated by the timing of the Ray Rice situation. Clearly you have to do something. Do you suspend him indefinitely too? Ban him for life? Wait for the legal system?
In this case I would gather all of the facts and if it seems that this truly is APs idea of best parenting, I would use the newly implemented abuse policy and state that there is no room for child abuse in our society and league and AP is going to suspended for 6 games. I would force AP to publicly apologize and say he didn't realize what he did was wrong but now he knows and he'll never do it again. Then donate the salary that he loses from the suspension to child abuse prevention.
Ultimately AP should be able to play again and this is an opportunity to use a terrible situation for some good. This is an opportunity for the NFL to do what's right and come down harsh on AP but use it as a lesson for everyone watching.
If Goodell screws this us he's gone.
Excellent post that is what I would do if I were Goodell.
oh really? Link - ( New Window )
Buford, not surprised you need it spelled out for you. Yes, it is a hyperbolic statement founded on racist stereotypes specific to black men.
Christ you are as dense as a doornail. Go be annoying somewhere else.
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That statement wasn't directed at him. My first comment was. The second post was towards the myriads of comments that borderline condone beatings. I rarely if ever have paid attention to you or anything you post. I don't give a shit about your thoughts here. But you seem to think you're THAT important. Your reading comprehension sucks. And you must have a guilty conscience. Your posts right now say a lot about your character. In closing... Fuck off and go bother someone who cares about what you think.
Wow, that's the angriest I've seen Berry. Epic takedown.
Yeah, in all my years on BBI, I think I have only seen Berry go off maybe twice including this one...But not shocked who she went off on each time.
wait wait wait, he's Mike?
The Montgomery County ADA ... "Obviously parents have a right to discipline their children, except when that discipline exceeds what the community thinks is reasonable ... It wasn't that he just used a switch" ... LINK
AP's boyhood pastor in Palestine, TX, Roy Duncan ... "The orientation for child discipline in this area does include some switches. Its worked effectively, and I dont think were a community of abusers at all. I think were a community who cares about children" ... LINK
Palestine is in a county of just 58,000 with a median household income of $31,000. Montgomery has a population of 456,000 and a median household income of $60,000.
Will "just disciplining his child" translate from Palestine to Montgomery? It's a much differnt community, but still Texas.
In the meantime, while AP is being "rehabilitated," his kids would still be at his mercy. The fuck should be in prison, not only as punishment for what he did, but what he might still do & to send a message to child abusers that even star football players aren't above the law. Hopefully that's what a judge or jury will decide in his criminal case, which somehow people seem to have largely forgotten abouto. Whether he plays or even ever is allowed to see his kids again should be the very least of his worries. Even in prison child abusers are rather seriously frowned upon.
The law specifically excludes reasonable discipline by the childs parent, guardian, or conservator; corporal punishment is not in itself abusive under the law.
What We Can Do About Child Abuse - ( New Window )
The law specifically excludes reasonable discipline by the childs parent, guardian, or conservator; corporal punishment is not in itself abusive under the law. What We Can Do About Child Abuse - ( New Window )
And what's your point? That what AP did was reasonable? The link goes on to say: "Physical abuse typically occurs when a frustrated parent or caregiver strikes, shakes, or throws a child because of anger. Other forms of deliberate assault that may be physically abusive include burning, scalding,biting, kicking, cutting, poking, twisting a childs limbs, deliberately withholding food, binding, gagging, choking, or hitting the child with a closed fist or other instrument. Any form of corporal punishment may be abusive if it results in injury."
AP was indicted, hence the powers that be believed he deliberately assaulted & abused his son & caused injury. The photos & AP's own admissions more than justify that opinion.
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The link is to a publication put out by the Texas Attorney General. It points out:
The law specifically excludes reasonable discipline by the childs parent, guardian, or conservator; corporal punishment is not in itself abusive under the law. What We Can Do About Child Abuse - ( New Window )
And what's your point? That what AP did was reasonable? The link goes on to say: "Physical abuse typically occurs when a frustrated parent or caregiver strikes, shakes, or throws a child because of anger. Other forms of deliberate assault that may be physically abusive include burning, scalding,biting, kicking, cutting, poking, twisting a childs limbs, deliberately withholding food, binding, gagging, choking, or hitting the child with a closed fist or other instrument. Any form of corporal punishment may be abusive if it results in injury."
AP was indicted, hence the powers that be believed he deliberately assaulted & abused his son & caused injury. The photos & AP's own admissions more than justify that opinion.
The point is not what we think is reasonable, as far as a conviction goes, but what a jury in Montgomery County, Texas thinks is reasonable. That's if it goes to trial.
Barkley: "I'm from the South. I understand Boomer's (Esiason) rage and anger ... but he's a white guy and I'm a black guy. I don't know where he's from (editor's note: Esiason grew up in Long Island), I'm from the South. Whipping -- we do that all the time. Every black parent in the South is going to be in jail under those circumstances."
Rome: "It doesn't matter where you're from: Right is right and wrong is wrong."
Barkley: "I don't believe that because, listen, we spank kids in the South. I think the question about whether Adrian Peterson went overboard -- Listen, Jim, we all grow up in different environments. Every black parent in my neighborhood in the South would be in trouble or in jail under those circumstances."
Rome: "My thing is: I don't want to tell anybody how to raise their kids and I really don't want anybody telling me how to raise my kids. But let's make a distinction between 'child rearing' and 'child abuse.' That was child abuse. There's no fine line here."
Barkley: "I think there's a fine line. Jim, I've had many welts on my legs. I've gotten beat with switches -- and I don't even like the term. When the media talks about it, 'beating a child'--
Rome: "But that's what that was, Charles."
Barkley: "We called it 'spanking' or 'whipping' our kids."
Rome: "If I see open wounds or bruises on a body that is a beating."
Barkley: "Sure. I think those pictures are disturbing. And I think Adrian said 'I went overboard.' But as far as being from the South, we all spanked our kids -- I got spanked, me an my two brothers"--
Rome: "But then, Chuck, not now, right? 1964 is one thing, 2014 is another. Maybe we need to rethink this thing."
Barkley: "And I totally agree with that. But I think we have to really be careful trying to teach other parents how to discipline their kids. That's a very fine line."
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And he was 4. FOUR. 4.
And if Charles Barkley whips his 4 your old son until there are deep bloody whelts, then Charles Barkley needs to go to jail too. Point is, just because he's Charles Fucking Barkley doesn't make him right. And - if he is right - if it is normal for black people from the south to whip their 4 year old children until they bleed, then something is seriously fucking wrong with black people from the south.
I tried to make it very clear in my initial post on this thread that although what Peterson did went way overboard and he deserves to face some serious punishment (go back and look at my post if you must) for it, I don't think he had evil intentions and therefore is a bad person. The guy has had a spotless past history, as far as I know, and I don't take what was (hopefully) one incident, good or bad, a person is involved in to make a judgement about a person, whether that be a good or bad judgement, and that's the tag they should have to live with for the rest of their lives... to hell with his or her reputation before said incident. If some want to do that, feel free... I just disagree with it because I know I wouldn't want a bunch of people to make judgements about me based on the worst thing I've probably ever done in my life.
But that's just me. You don't agree with that, that's fine and I can respect that. Anyway, I'm done with this topic and thread.
Do I believe what he did was very wrong. Yes. But do I think that he's a monster? No. He just used very bad judgement and went to far and he deserves to be punished for it. No child needs to be beaten to the point where there is blood drawn and welts all over his or her legs and bruises everywhere. Especially at 4 years old. But I also don't think all of a sudden that this is an evil man who deserves to rot in jail for years. I think that's going a bit overboard.
If it wasn't, then I apologize for being misled when your first two posts on this thread were:
Berrylish : 9/13/2014 11:25 am : link : reply
Tell that to the child. Ask the child how he views him when he's being beaten.
I hope
Berrylish : 9/13/2014 11:26 am : link : reply
Some of you don't have kids , ever.
It appears that your post when you say 'He's not a monster?' is in response to mine when I say I don't see him as some kind of monster. Personally, and it's only my opinion and how I operate, I try not to say things like I hope someone never has kids because you never know what that person you are referring to is going through when it comes to having children. But moving on...
I saw the pictures and I saw the text messages. Within those text messages I see a man who openly admits that he went too far with this particular beating (ie, when he tells his child's mother that she's gonna be mad at him when she sees some of the cuts and bruises) and I would hope that with proper education he can be taught that beatings like the one he gave his child go waaaay beyond what is/was deserved. Had he NOT been caught, then yeah... I could see this continuing on and him possibly injuring the child (or one of his other children) more. But now that he has... and I still believe he's a good man at heart... hopefully his eyes can be opened to what he had done (and possibly BEEN doing) wrong and he can know that discipline isn't just about teaching your kids that 'daddy doesn't play' and whooping them until you draw blood.
For the last time, do I think he deserves to be punished for what he did to that child? Yes, most definitely! I wouldn't even be opposed to several months in jail for it. But do I think that this is also a case of a good person who did something wrong and can learn from his mistakes? Yes, I see that also based on his past history as one of the 'good guys' in the sport. Everyone keeps bringing up his other child that was killed and how he wasn't in that particular child's life but, and someone correct me if I'm wrong because I didn't follow that story that closely, I thought it was public knowledge that for most of that particular child's life Peterson didn't know he was the father of that child? Kind of hard to hold against him if he didn't know about the kid until after he'd been born.
If you, or anyone else, want to believe that he's some kind of monster then you're entitled to your opinion. I would hope that if that were the case that he would've been reported a long time ago and if he has a history of dishing out these kind of beatings maybe my mind will change. But I'm not going to hold this one mistake, although a very big one, over his head and forget everything that I thought about him until I saw those pictures. Again, I think he's a good guy who just made a very bad mistake... one that he can... and hopefully will... learn from.
Re: Monsters--- in another lifetime, I worked on various cases of child abuse. Most often, ones where the child died at the hands of the mother or father. More often the father. These things go vastly unreported until it is too late. Why? the mother is financially dependent on the father, chances are she's getting beat too, or he promises never to do it again....any number of dysfunctional reasons.
I've sat there and combed through court reports and autopsies of several dead children. Often, the excuse is: I don't know what happened, I took it too far, I didn't mean for this to happen, I've never done this before, etc.
Then, it was my and my partners job along with the medical examiners to figure out the cause of death. We look at the dead child, hundreds of photos are taken during the autopsies. The child is laid to rest. Now come the late night hours in the office.
We read testimony, we look at picture. Back and forth, back and forth... testimony-pictures. We see the welts on the child's body that presumably caused the death. Then we see that the child tried to defend itself, or maybe it didn't. We have to determine, was the child conscious prior to the moment of death.
Then we have postmortem X-rays of the child. Often, we would see prior broken bones that were not set We have the medical records of the child. No broken bones reported.
We see the internal hemorrhages. We see the broken capillaries on the eyeballs (asphyxiation). We see burn marks. Wounds in the later stages of healing. We see every little thing that ever happened to the child prior to the incident where the mother of father went "overboard".
Most of the cases I worked on were Caucasian children. The last case I worked on was a 2 year old grandchild of a very prominent North Eastern Caucasian man.
That last case, I recall sitting on the floor surrounded by court printouts and hundreds of pictures from the autopsy. Eyeballs removed, the heart, all visceral organs, photos of the legs, arms, brain and that adorable little face. You sit there and you read the testimony from the father (in this case) who swears he didn't mean for it to happen. Then you think about the child. How can you fathom what that child or any other of the children's cases I worked on, felt in those last moments before death. Hopefully, they weren't conscious.... hopefully they went quickly. How terrifyingly scared where they each time a violent incident happened? Did they think they were just going to go to school or play with their friends the next day? Were they thinking of what to tell the teacher about the black eye? Why didn't this child try to defend him/herself? Why should this child have to be in this position?
What on earth did this child do that angered the parent so much? What did this child want to be when he or she grew up? What was his/her favorite toy? Are there siblings? What's going to come of them? Will I be working on their case next? The questions you go over in your head are heartbreaking.
"Overboard, didn't mean to, it only happened once".
Sorry I don't buy it. I've seen it too often.
Yes they are monsters, worse than any imaginary monster in any child's closet or under the bed.
All I'll say is that I will hope that this incident will serve as a wake-up call to Peterson and I pray that he finds a better means of disciplining his children in the future. I haven't been through nearly as much as you obviously have with regards to these kind of matters so with you having that experience I feel it's best that I bow out and keep my own personal views to what kind of person I believe Peterson is to myself.
I'm through with this thread.
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