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Widespread Ref Errors

FatMan in Charlotte : 9/14/2014 8:33 pm
We all saw the Giants and Cards have flags thrown with indiscrimination today. But this is one of the few weeks I can say that every game I watched had an adverse impact, even if it was only on certain drives I watched.

On Thursday, I watched about ten minutes of the game. During that time, I saw the Steelers get called for three defensive penalties on one drive, two of which were personal fouls on legal hits. Neither player targeted the head and neither led with a helmet, but they were flagged, for only what I can consider to be hits that were too hard.

For the 1PM games today, I really only watched the giants, but that was bad enough. apparently, you can barely brush a player in the secondary, but throw a guy down after he's clearly out of bounds, and that's OK. Also, if you are a Giant, getting pushed in the helmet is means to be called for a PF on YOU! Make no mistake, the Cards were jobbed too, especially on a bogus call that wiped out a fumble.

In the 4PM games, I saw a Broncos player make a catch, not get touched and then lose the ball. But the refs called it an incomplete pass. Then Alex Smith clearly fumbled and was ruled to have an incomplete pass. Neither call was even close to being right, but they were upheld. In the Seattle game, Percy Harvin CLEARLY stepped out of bounds, but was ruled to score a TD, and upon further review - it wasn't overturned! These are all plays that affected scores or drives that led to scores and they were all botched. The Jets game had a few suspicious calls and misinterpretations of rules, especially on the tineout call that wasn't made by Ryan.

this has been a bleak week off the field, but the on the field stuff isn't too much better.

It clearly isn't at a crossroads, but if you continue to see what looks like blatant incompetence at work, it will eventually drive people away.
It's as bad as I've ever seen.  
arcarsenal : 9/14/2014 8:37 pm : link
I've never been a blame the refs for everything guy but some of the calls I saw today were appalling.

SF just scored on a play where the playclock was at 0 for a full 2 seconds before the snap.
The sickening part is.....  
dep026 : 9/14/2014 8:38 pm : link
There is nothing done to the refs. The whole crew in the Giants game should be demoted. Fined. Something.
The crew for today's Giants game  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 9/14/2014 8:42 pm : link
was egregiously incompetent. But it's because of subjective rules put in place by the owners.

It's going to take a massive screw-up on a Sunday night game to make a difference (like the GB/Seattle screw-up with the replacement refs).
On cue,  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/14/2014 8:45 pm : link
the Niners aren't called for the play clock, and Megatron is fuming over the TD standing.......
This league is going to shit.  
Exit 172 : 9/14/2014 9:10 pm : link
Money-printing shit, to be sure.

But it's going to shit.
the ridiculous defensive holding/illegal contact calls  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 9/14/2014 9:14 pm : link
are the worst thing to happen to this league in a long time. Simply way too many important 3rd downs being decided by iffy penalties.
BUMP  
dep026 : 9/14/2014 9:28 pm : link
for FMiC.
Defensive holding is fine and legitimate, IMO.  
Cam in MO : 9/14/2014 9:34 pm : link
Get rid of illegal contact altogether, tho. Complete shit of a rule that can basically be called by an official whenever he feels like it- including when the offensive player knocks over a DB.

I def . Agree  
LPete : 9/14/2014 9:38 pm : link
with you on that Ravens-Steelers game. Bogus flags on Mike Mitchell and them Polamalu. Just awful. I switched off as soon as that drive ended. I almost NEVER switch off during a game. I've waited 6 long months for football, but I can't watch shite like that
It's fine.  
Sarcastic Sam : 9/14/2014 9:44 pm : link


This guy looks pretty happy with the officiating....
I can honestly say, It's becoming hard for to watch anymore  
micky : 9/14/2014 9:44 pm : link
with calls (like a "textbook" hit last thurs that was called RTP) being made. It's not what accustomed to what I grew up watching. PS I know it's a different NFL today than then, because of protection of players in this day of litigation, but now if you pass wind running by another player it's 15 yd unsportsmanlike.

I listened to the game on the radio.  
St. Jimmy : 9/14/2014 9:47 pm : link
Every third down stop is followed by a 5 second period of hoping there is no flag. Adds to the NFL Experience.
NFL officiating has been grossly incompetent for decades.  
Red Dog : 9/14/2014 9:52 pm : link
Better television coverage with tight shots and repeated replays has only verified what some of us have been saying for a long, long - the officials are incompetent at best and actively biased at worst.

The failure of the NFL to adopt professional officials is one of the league's greatest failings. It may not matter to neophyte fans, but studious, knowledgeable fans who understand the rules of the game know that the officiating is too often completely and totally rotten, and that undermines everything else the league is doing.

This could be fixed, but the league is NOT moving in any seriously corrective way. It is one of the reasons I am becoming increasingly pissed off at the NFL.
I watched the Steelers game too  
Daniel in MI : 9/14/2014 9:56 pm : link
And while I HATED the calls, everyone (especially ref rep) said they were "correct". They said for player safety you can't hit a receiver up high. Now , to me they looked like good, clean, hard hits. Both led with the shoulder but ended up high on receivers moving downward. But apparently it's correct...

And if they are correct, the rules are idiotic at this point. I'm all for safety but let the guys play D. It's becoming so the ad can't do anything, and games are flag fests on plays all fans see as normal, good plays.
...  
Cornman33 : 9/14/2014 9:57 pm : link
For about 18-19 years, my plans on Sundays used to be watching football. At the end of last year, I got frustrated with the officiating and the general BS and told myself that come this season, that's no longer my default plan unless I get drawn back in.

I DVR'd today's game and watched at 4pm-ish in 45 minutes and then watched 10 minutes of the Jets game/redzone channel and got bored very quick and went back out.

Been watching this SNF game because it's on and I haven't watched any football all day which is unprecedented in my adult life, but nothing about this is making me regret my new sunday gameplan.
In the other thread i wrote about the Seattle game  
montanagiant : 9/14/2014 10:00 pm : link
Quote:
They allowed a TD in the Seattle game
montanagiant : 5:09 pm : link : reply
Where Harvin has a 60 yard TD run...The replay clearly shows he has at half his foot out of bounds around the 25 yard line. The sideline ref even points to where he goes out of bounds...They still signal a TD and the commentators are scratching their heads but assume the official review will catch it...NOPE, TD.. I have never seen anything more clear to him being out of bounds
"Professional" officials  
HomerJones45 : 9/14/2014 10:04 pm : link
guarantee nothing.

With the current state of the rules, the additions of new rules every season and the memos of Captain Roger Queeg mandating more "emphasis", whatever the fuck that means, on certain rules, they may be making this game impossible to officiate.

It appears as though the officials no longer know what is and what isn't against the rules as far as pass defense is concerned.

Worse, it is creating a breed of coaches, like Carrol and Ariens who are coaching to take advantage of the vague rules and variable enforcement.
The link to the Seattle play  
montanagiant : 9/14/2014 10:08 pm : link
Quote:
Percy Harvin scored a pretty boss 51-yard TD run, but replays definitively showed that he stepped out around the 21-yard line. How on earth did officials miss this?

It was pretty bad breakdown, and a failure of the new replay rules that were passed this offseason. As a scoring play, it was automatically reviewed by the central replay office in New York, which confirmed the touchdown. FOX's Mike Pereira was in the NFL's command center, and was at a loss for words when trying to explain how replay officials could have missed it.

Harvin has since fumbled on a kickoff return, and the Seahawks are trailing at the half.


link - ( New Window )
Was stunned...  
rptl530 : 9/15/2014 8:13 am : link
by both the DRC illegal contact penalty on Fitz and the no-call when Jennings was thrown out of bounds about 5 yards out of bounds.

Makes me wonder how much longer I can watch this shit.
Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson have taken up the  
Headhunter : 9/15/2014 8:21 am : link
headlines and oxygen, rightfully so, but when the air clears and the focus is on the game officials , the NFL is going to find out they killed the Golden Goose by incompetence . there is not 1 football fan, not 1 that I talk to think the game is better today than yesterday.
On the Harvin TD, he clearly stepped out of bounds. The official  
jlukes : 9/15/2014 8:25 am : link
right there even pointed immediately after Harvin stepped out of bounds.

Yet he didn't blow the play did and they didn't review.

Mind boggling
FMiC  
jlukes : 9/15/2014 8:26 am : link
they never even reviewed the Harvin play!
I think the new rules deserve some blame  
NoPeanutz : 9/15/2014 8:33 am : link
but I wonder if age, and its effect on the officials' ability to keep up with the pace of the game, was not a factor yesterday. One official in particular yesterday looked well into his golden years.
That Harvin play should have the league investigated  
BlueHurricane : 9/15/2014 8:37 am : link
The ref pointed to him stepping out of bounds. Is money on these games beginning to have an effect on who gets calls and who doesn't????

The golden goose is dying a slow death.
Ha!...  
rptl530 : 9/15/2014 8:40 am : link
Just saw that Harvin play for the first time.

Hilarious.
its ridiculous  
Peter from CT : 9/15/2014 8:59 am : link
the one that got me was the call on prince. The receiver engages him and grabs on to him and pushes him backward for ten yards and Prince gets called for holding. Its just impossible to play defense if the receivers get the benefit of calls like that.

I get that Seattle won last year because they took advantage of the rules. However, call Seattle for it, not everyone else. Its making the game unwatchable.
In complete agreement w/ most here  
Bockman : 9/15/2014 9:05 am : link
needing to cross your fingers after every single 3rd down stop to hope there isn't a flag is getting nauseating.

Joe Buck says "X player, touchdown! No flags!" after every score.

I absolutely find myself not caring as much this year. And its not just because the Giants suck. I used to watch RedZone all day to follow my fantasy players, but the officiating is just hilariously bad everywhere.
I kinda thought the Smith fumble/incomplete pass  
Andy in Halifax : 9/15/2014 9:16 am : link
was correct. Had possession as his hand was coming forward before losing it.

Overall though, I agree with you. Every game I watched had really poor calls or illegal contact calls that really have no impact on the play. The league asked these to be called and they have been, it makes for a terrible product but I can't put that on the refs. The league needs to scale back on what they want called.
RE: Defensive holding is fine and legitimate, IMO.  
Bramton1 : 9/15/2014 9:19 am : link
In comment 11863043 Cam in MO said:
Quote:
Get rid of illegal contact altogether, tho. Complete shit of a rule that can basically be called by an official whenever he feels like it- including when the offensive player knocks over a DB.


That play gave me fits. Fitz is allowed to run directly through a receiver, but because DRC put his hands up (which 99 percent of people would do), he's flagged.
It's almost as if  
mrvax : 9/15/2014 9:33 am : link
the officials have all decided to smoke some pot at the start of the game and have a few more tokes at half time.

They actually appear to be stupid.
Wait a minute..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2014 9:39 am : link
Quote:
jlukes : 8:26 am : link : reply
they never even reviewed the Harvin play!


I thought all scoring plays and turnovers are reviewed no matter what?

If it wasn't reviewed, that is not only incompetence, but a sheer ignoring of protocol.
RE: RE: Defensive holding is fine and legitimate, IMO.  
ray in arlington : 9/15/2014 9:58 am : link
In comment 11863578 Bramton1 said:
Quote:
In comment 11863043 Cam in MO said:


Quote:


Get rid of illegal contact altogether, tho. Complete shit of a rule that can basically be called by an official whenever he feels like it- including when the offensive player knocks over a DB.




That play gave me fits. Fitz is allowed to run directly through a receiver, but because DRC put his hands up (which 99 percent of people would do), he's flagged.


There is a rule that allows legal contact of that type. The defender is allowed to use his hands to fend off imminent contact with a receiver. IMO it could have applied to that play.




I thought the  
River Mike : 9/15/2014 10:02 am : link
officiating in the Giants game was some of the worst I have ever seen, and not just the ones against the Giants. I don't see how this can continue without some sort of backlash.
RE: Wait a minute..  
montanagiant : 9/15/2014 10:31 am : link
In comment 11863625 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


jlukes : 8:26 am : link : reply
they never even reviewed the Harvin play!



I thought all scoring plays and turnovers are reviewed no matter what?

If it wasn't reviewed, that is not only incompetence, but a sheer ignoring of protocol.

They do a new type of review now. It goes to the office in NY on every scoring play and they make the call...Supposedly the Harvin one went there and they confirmed the TD. When I saw it live I could not believe they even called it a TD at the game since the sideline judge pointed him out at the 21 on TV.
Horrible  
Fish : 9/15/2014 10:34 am : link
what is becoming of the NFL.

Someone said on BBI until their revenue takes a hit then get used to this garbage.
It's crazy  
Bluenatic : 9/15/2014 10:36 am : link
It honesty seems like the league wants to make defending a pass, in any way, against the rules.
The NFL is probably thrilled we are discussing weekly incompetance  
marbles : 9/15/2014 10:49 am : link
of the referees.

It takes away from the headlines caused by bad player behavior and the incompetance of the league's response. In Goodell's mind, at least TMZ doesn't give a crap about bad officiating.
The NFL officiating is in disarray  
Some Fan : 9/15/2014 11:24 am : link
and the rules are a vague and inconsistently applied mess. There was pass interference called on plays where the receiver really was not touched in any meaningful way and then there was abject failure to call pass interference on plplays that changed the outcome of teh game and clearly were PI.

It seems that the result the NFL is trying to get to is to encourage virtually all passing on offense and achieve constant scoring.

In addition, there are also a dusting of even more vague rules supposedly to make the game safer. Yet, injuries are as widespread and serious as any year in the NFL.
I still don't understand why..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2014 11:56 am : link
the league doesn't lessen the amount of judgment calls knowing that refs are older than the athletes.

It would be so much simpler to get rid of illegal contact and enforce holding. Then when the ball is in the air, it becomes PI. These minimal brushes against a receiver that have little to no impact on his route are frustrating to watch.

I'm a huge proponent of letting the little stuff go. Call the fouls that either impact the point of attack or that are blatant when committed off the ball. So many fouls are called when you ask yourself "What did he see?". In my opinion, you should never have to ask that - it should be evident to all that are watching.
FatMan  
Matt M. : 9/15/2014 12:04 pm : link
I agree about Illegal contact. I was discussing loosening the interpretation of the rule on another thread. You said it better, because ultimately that means you either flag for defensive holding before the throw or PI after the throw. I thought both teams yesterday got hosed on what was incidental contact that got flagged for Illegal Contact.

I'm glad you mentioned getting hit out of bounds. I was shocked when there was no flag on that tackle on Jennings. I thought it was a blatant penalty that not only wasn't flagged, but never even got a second thought from the broadcast team.

The flag on Pugh was ludicrous. If he was getting flagged for shoving a defender immediately after the whistle, it was very late and really ticky tack considering the affect of the contact. Otherwise, he got flagged because another player shoved him in the head. At the very least, in that case, a second flag for the Cardinal defender was in order. Personally, I would have thrown no flag at all.

But, overall, I agree with your primary complaint. It isn't just the number of penalties being called. It is that more and more the penalties being called are immediately impacting games in a negative way.
Matt..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2014 12:29 pm : link
on the Pugh play, the ref doesn't even throw the flag until he saw Pugh get pushed. I really think they missed that one by calling it on the wrong player and were too stupid not to realize it and reverse it. That crew had pretty much lost control of the game.

Foote was pushing players after each play, yet Pugh got called? Arizona got hosed on a few illegal contact penalties, but we had a few horrific ones that shouldn't have been missed. The play where Jennings was thrown down late. The Pugh play. The punt where they flagged us but not the blatant hold on Jennings.

A horrific performance all around by that crew.
the worst, in my opinion, was seeing a DB  
Matt M. : 9/15/2014 1:20 pm : link
grab and hold Parker's arm behind him while he is trying to run to a ball thrown to him. How is that missed?

How is it missed when a RB is running along the sidelines, clearly steps out and is slowing and a whistle blows and he gets hit?

As for the flag on Pugh, I had the same thought, that they called the wrong guy and were too embarrassed to correct it.
the refs aren't to blame as much  
djm : 9/15/2014 2:57 pm : link
as the NFL rules are. The refs, flawed as they may be, are merely doing what they are supposed to do. If you touch the WR you are gonna get flagged. IT's terrible but the refs are only doing what they are supposed to do.

Were they making it a point  
Randy in CT : 9/15/2014 3:00 pm : link
to change personal fouls this year? That if you instigated it, YOU get the call and if there is a minor retaliation then it won't get called?

Make no mistake about it, Pugh did almost NOTHING you don't see on every play.
Not necessarily..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/15/2014 3:02 pm : link
because the refs are still missing who is initiating the contact most times.

Here's an interesting statistic - Vs. this point last year, offensive holding penalties have been down by half, while defensive holding is up by 4 times. Illegal contact has had 8.5 times the amount called. Point of emphasis, I know. But you know what was also supposed to be a point of emphasis? Pick plays and offensive interference. In the first two weeks only 3 calls have been made for OPI. That is actually DOWN from last year.

The point of emphasis was supposed to be to correctly call downfield contact, but thus far, they've only called it one way.
RE: its ridiculous  
HomerJones45 : 9/15/2014 3:11 pm : link
In comment 11863529 Peter from CT said:
Quote:
the one that got me was the call on prince. The receiver engages him and grabs on to him and pushes him backward for ten yards and Prince gets called for holding. Its just impossible to play defense if the receivers get the benefit of calls like that.

I get that Seattle won last year because they took advantage of the rules. However, call Seattle for it, not everyone else. Its making the game unwatchable.
If you noticed the Cardinal receivers did that on a number of occasions yesterday. Run right at the DB and make contact. If the DB puts his hands up, the WR draws the flag. If the DB doesn't put his hands up, he falls behind the receiver.
The Alex Smith call  
Fox : 9/15/2014 3:19 pm : link
Was legit, or at least defensible.

At first glance - and if you only saw that play in highlights that was all you got - it definitely looks like a blown fumble call.

However, if you were watching the game, they spent a long time reviewing and discussing the play. Nance brought it up during the review that while Ware hit Smith before his arm came forward, Smith did not lose possession of the football at that point. Smith's arm continued forward, with possession, after the hit and the ball came free at the end of his, ahem, throwing motion. Mike Carey was beamed in and agreed and ultimately the official on the field came to the same conclusion.

Overall though, the OP is on point.
That one call on Prince  
montanagiant : 9/15/2014 5:18 pm : link
Was an obvious pick play. The receiver started blocking Prince 4 yards down field before the ball was thrown
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