The play was in the first quarter on the Cardinals' 30. Third and eight. Eli was in the shotgun at the 35. Based on the routes I could see, Cruz was the hot read.
Kelly was well-blocked at the time. He was going nowhere. Pugh had stood him up, which usually sounds great, but hurt us on this play.
• Unfortunately, no one besides Pugh blocked especially well. Jerry attempted to block no one. He might have been there to provide support for Pugh, who clearly didn't need any.
• The next closest pass rusher was blocked by Walton, who was in between him and Eli but giving up ground fast (defender was already three yards in the backfield).
• Beatty's man was at the 35 and Beatty was blocking his side when Eli released the pass backpedaling at the 38.
• The Cardinals showed blitz from three linebackers and one corner (Powers). Two of the LBs (Acho and Keiser) backed into coverage. One LB (Foote) and Powers blitzed.
• Foote burst through the gap between Richburg and Beatty, and Richburg didn't touch him (didn't block anyone after that). Jennings had a chance to pickup Foote, who slid right past him. He was at the 36 and closing when the ball was released.
• Powers, who came untouched, was at the 37 and hit Eli as soon as he released the football.
Doing a highly scientific study of starting a stopwatch when Eli caught the snap in the shotgun and stopping it when he released the ball... 1.43 seconds. Add that to Eli backpedaling, and Pugh standing Kelly up, and the ball hit Kelly's shoulder pad, and went straight to Acho.
Think of that for a moment. If Pugh was as shitty blocking on that play as the rest of the line... the ball probably doesn't get tipped at all (although it might have gone straight to Acho regardless, just waist-high instead of shoulder-high).
Even then, had Cruz not stumbled coming out of his cut (Eli had started his throwing motion when Cruz slipped), there's a good chance he's able to get a hand on it. Don't think he would have come down with the catch, but would have at least changed the ball's trajectory (although with the amazing amounts of tipped passes that go straight at defenders, it very well could have gone straight at Keiser instead).
1.43 seconds. Less than a second and a half. That's the amount of time the offensive line gave him.
Protection up the middle was pretty horrible on the play, but Eli needs to make a better toss than that.
That toss aside, does any other QB in the league get as many bad bounces as Eli does? Seems like once a game, I see a pick take an unusual bounce and land in the opposing teams hands. Would be nice to have some luck once in awhile.
I feel like Walton has been getting a bad rap around here by some. I think he's been ok despite going against some beasts in the middle.
Just stop already. You keep trying to deflect some of the blame to Cruz and its ridiculous. Even if you are right and Cruz is a little further in his route and the defender isn't where he is, there are 2 arizona defenders right there ready to make the pick. Also, those 2 defenders are corners who would have caught the ball in stride and probably returned it to the house. So I guess I can make the case that cruz stumbling prevented a td against us.
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May or may not have made a difference, but him being upright would definitely have an effect on the defender and his view as well as reaction to thee offensive player
Just stop already. You keep trying to deflect some of the blame to Cruz and its ridiculous. Even if you are right and Cruz is a little further in his route and the defender isn't where he is, there are 2 arizona defenders right there ready to make the pick. Also, those 2 defenders are corners who would have caught the ball in stride and probably returned it to the house. So I guess I can make the case that cruz stumbling prevented a td against us.
I am just asking honestly, because from all accounts I agree with you 110% that the INT was on Eli..... but if Cruz doesnt stumble could have have made a play on the ball? I dont know if it riccocheted too far away from him.
Donnell and Cruz feeet got tangled up so he stumbled right when Eli was throwing the pass. Thats just a fluke and you cant blame eli for throwing it to what would have been a completion to Cruz altho not for a first down. But again with a free edge blitzer he just had to get rid of that pass.
It looks like it, on that last replay above.
If he picks him up Eli can roll away from the pressure to his right..
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In comment 11864010 stretch234 said:
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May or may not have made a difference, but him being upright would definitely have an effect on the defender and his view as well as reaction to thee offensive player
Just stop already. You keep trying to deflect some of the blame to Cruz and its ridiculous. Even if you are right and Cruz is a little further in his route and the defender isn't where he is, there are 2 arizona defenders right there ready to make the pick. Also, those 2 defenders are corners who would have caught the ball in stride and probably returned it to the house. So I guess I can make the case that cruz stumbling prevented a td against us.
I am just asking honestly, because from all accounts I agree with you 110% that the INT was on Eli..... but if Cruz doesnt stumble could have have made a play on the ball? I dont know if it riccocheted too far away from him.
Not a chance in hell could Cruz have made a play had he of been upright. He'd still be moving across the line and probably would have been standing right in front of the other LB that was right there to cover him. The ball bounced behind him. Just like he got blamed for the INT last week when he was moving away from the ball, it's stupid to put any blame on Cruz. The dude's been atrocious all on his own so far this year, he doesn't need people adding stuff that wasn't his fault.
Poor blocking, poor throw, poor result.
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May or may not have made a difference, but him being upright would definitely have an effect on the defender and his view as well as reaction to thee offensive player
Just stop already. You keep trying to deflect some of the blame to Cruz and its ridiculous. Even if you are right and Cruz is a little further in his route and the defender isn't where he is, there are 2 arizona defenders right there ready to make the pick. Also, those 2 defenders are corners who would have caught the ball in stride and probably returned it to the house. So I guess I can make the case that cruz stumbling prevented a td against us.
I can't see how on Earth there's a pick if Cruz didn't slip (or get tripped) and the pass wasn't tipped. The LBs were a good 3-4 yards behind Cruz. At best, they're able to break it up.
By the way, if Eli had taken the sack there, we would be up in arms that Eli took a sack and knocked us out of FG range. And couldn't try to throw at the feet of Jennings, because Foote was in the way and would have gladly picked it.
Either way a clear lack of communication on the line and Jennings there. They had two guards blocking no one, Richburg and Jerry just standing there
Thats what I thought. It looked like 2 guys were blocking 1. But without knowing what the coaches said, its tough to analyze it thoroughly.
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In comment 11864010 stretch234 said:
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May or may not have made a difference, but him being upright would definitely have an effect on the defender and his view as well as reaction to thee offensive player
Just stop already. You keep trying to deflect some of the blame to Cruz and its ridiculous. Even if you are right and Cruz is a little further in his route and the defender isn't where he is, there are 2 arizona defenders right there ready to make the pick. Also, those 2 defenders are corners who would have caught the ball in stride and probably returned it to the house. So I guess I can make the case that cruz stumbling prevented a td against us.
I can't see how on Earth there's a pick if Cruz didn't slip (or get tripped) and the pass wasn't tipped. The LBs were a good 3-4 yards behind Cruz. At best, they're able to break it up.
By the way, if Eli had taken the sack there, we would be up in arms that Eli took a sack and knocked us out of FG range. And couldn't try to throw at the feet of Jennings, because Foote was in the way and would have gladly picked it.
I'm not sure I'm following your point. The ball was tipped regardless of what Cruz did. Why try to guess what happens if the ball wasn't tipped?
If he would have gotten hit by the untouched player coming on the blitz and fumbled as a result then people would be complaining that he needs to get rid of the ball.
This was on the protection, Eli saw the blitz coming free and did what he is trained to do, throw to the hot read. The problem was that the OL was collapsing as well and as a result there was no passing lane left by the time the ball was coming across the OL, add to that the freak occurrence of Cruz being tripped up and losing any chance of his getting a hand on the ball and it was just simply one of those plays.
However if you want to point fingers this was on the protection, the QB and receivers can only do so much. It is still a team sport. It is not QB and receivers with the opposing rush counting to three Mississippi. This was a protection breakdown if there ever was one, which resulted in a busted play. No need to over analyze it.
I don't think so. Pugh looked like he was set to block the OLB showing blitz and then switched to Kelly when the OLB backed off. No way you have your OT switch from a OLB to the CB coming from well off the edge. He'd have no chance to get there.
Like others said, I think Donnell missed his chip.
LOL, some of you are hysterical. Where the hell is there a hitch? He threw it almost immediately and in none of those looks above is there a hitch.
Either way a clear lack of communication on the line and Jennings there. They had two guards blocking no one, Richburg and Jerry just standing there
The 2 guards blocking no one were because they had to account for the LBs showing blitz that then backed off. Looking at the 2nd gif, my (amateur) opinion is that the OL got their assignments correct. The problems were:
1. Donnell missing the chip on the DB
2. Jennings whiffing on his block
3. Beatty get beat
but, to my eyes, if he doesn't stumble...
This is not meant as a shot at the op or any individual because this is so widely done..... but there is nothing I like less about bbi than how we put these interceptions on trial every week and the same casts of characters are looking to defend eli from blame or looking to pin it all on him. To be honest though, the former is a much larger group than the latter)
He was pretty damn good yesterday on the whole though. Better than his numbers
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In comment 11864025 kmed said:
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In comment 11864010 stretch234 said:
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May or may not have made a difference, but him being upright would definitely have an effect on the defender and his view as well as reaction to thee offensive player
Just stop already. You keep trying to deflect some of the blame to Cruz and its ridiculous. Even if you are right and Cruz is a little further in his route and the defender isn't where he is, there are 2 arizona defenders right there ready to make the pick. Also, those 2 defenders are corners who would have caught the ball in stride and probably returned it to the house. So I guess I can make the case that cruz stumbling prevented a td against us.
I can't see how on Earth there's a pick if Cruz didn't slip (or get tripped) and the pass wasn't tipped. The LBs were a good 3-4 yards behind Cruz. At best, they're able to break it up.
By the way, if Eli had taken the sack there, we would be up in arms that Eli took a sack and knocked us out of FG range. And couldn't try to throw at the feet of Jennings, because Foote was in the way and would have gladly picked it.
I'm not sure I'm following your point. The ball was tipped regardless of what Cruz did. Why try to guess what happens if the ball wasn't tipped?
You know, I read that post wrong. I can see what the stretch was trying to say about the defenders there to make the pick. That said, (1) I think Cruz is able to get a hand on the ball and change its direction, and (2) those two defenders were linebackers, not corners.
The DB can't be Pugh's responsibility because if he jumps out to get the DB, then who is blocking the OLB?
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looking again could have been Jennings responsibility.
Either way a clear lack of communication on the line and Jennings there. They had two guards blocking no one, Richburg and Jerry just standing there
The 2 guards blocking no one were because they had to account for the LBs showing blitz that then backed off. Looking at the 2nd gif, my (amateur) opinion is that the OL got their assignments correct. The problems were:
1. Donnell missing the chip on the DB
2. Jennings whiffing on his block
3. Beatty get beat
I agree with this. They showed 7 bliters that had to be accounted for. 5 OL and 1 RB means one guy is unaccounted for. So either Donnell was supposed to chip, or he was supposed to challenge the seam and allow cruz to be open underneath before the blitzer gets there. No way to tedll for sure but id think Donnell is supposed to ride him out wide and release as a checkdown option
this is a turn about, but after looking at the replay, I give Eli a pass on this one. He had two choices: take the sack or try and get it to the hot read. It was a Hobson's choice.
Please break down the Ginn return and the Demps fumble if you want to find out wtf went wrong in that game.
Because it takes bad decision-making and poor technique to throw it to no one in particular instead of taking the sack?
I really can't understand how anyone can objectively look at the replays and comes away blaming Eli or Cruz instead of the break down in protection.
The pass looks like the closest dumpoff receiver might have been Cruz.
Donnell should have chipped the blitzer; he just shook his hand on the way by.
Taking a sack also takes him out of field goal range since the ball would have been downed at the 38 or 39 yard line. Brown hasn't hit a 55 yarder since 2009 at home with the Rams.
If Cruz catches the ball, it becomes a 45 yard field goal attempt.
Matt, yeah I know.....I was kinda just throwing that out there becuase I hadn't seen it mentioned.
Throwing the ball away in that situation likely would have resulted in intentional grounding.
He threw it into a DLs shoulder. Just read that again. Not a leaping DL. Not an outstretched arm. Just the shoulder of a guy at the LOS.
I didn't say he was near Eli, but he didn't hold his block at all and that was where the pass was going. He got pushed back five yard in the direction of Eli which took away that passing lane.
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Walton's guy is nowhere near Eli when he throws that ball into a defenders shoulder pads.
I didn't say he was near Eli, but he didn't hold his block at all and that was where the pass was going. He got pushed back five yard in the direction of Eli which took away that passing lane.
He got "pushed" 2 yards and was still 5 yards in front of Eli. I fail to see any point that you are attempting to make. Some people just try too hard to remove any or some blame from Eli.
If he picks him up Eli can roll away from the pressure to his right..
Yup
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are running free at the QB?
Because it takes bad decision-making and poor technique to throw it to no one in particular instead of taking the sack?
The Giants won Super Bowls because of QBs doing dumb shit because they were getting hit often. Eli has been getting hit by guys like that nearly every game for a season and a half now. I'm not surprised he's making bad decisions, using poor mechanics, and throwing picks when guys are running free at him.
Articles have been written about QB pressures being more important than sacks. They lead to mistakes like the one we saw from Eli.
Tired of watching him make poor decisions under pressure. I get that the line is awful but come on, he's a vet, GET RID OF IT! Overthrow someone out of bounds, don't just dump it..
He played well yesterday....that's good sign for the Giants.
It was on the OL, TE, and RB who were supposed to block on the play..
blue42 : 1:48 pm : link : reply
had an entire off season being taught to eliminate stupid throws.
I don't think they spent the offseason "teaching him how to eliminate stupid throws". He spent the offseason being taught a new offense.
Guys don't think about making a stupid throw or not. They go through a process in their mind, make a decision, then act on it.
I don't know how you can teach somebody to just weed out and eliminate stupid throws.
No room for error. And this team makes a lot of errors.
They have 14 games. 14 games to shore up the mental aspects and play some fucking NFL football. 14 games or it's curtains for Coughlin, Fewell and the OC who shall remain nameless until his offense actually plays like an NFL offense.
Excellent analysis. Until the OL blocks it correctly, this type of stuff is going to happen whether it's the QB or the backs.
If he takes more sacks like Aaron Rodgers, we don't have this discussion.
Again, he had absolutely no time to throw and tried to readjust his throw to Cruz when he tripped and the lower throw riccocheted off a lineman's shoulder for an interception.
I would argue that an interception in that case was unlikely, and so in such a short time, I don't even mind trying that throw (for an incompletion or a short catch). It was the only chance the Giants had to put points on the board.
Fixed.
1. Donnell missing the chip on the DB
2. Jennings whiffing on his block
3. Beatty get beat
Eli did not want to take the sack because it would have taken the team out of FG range.
Also, I don't like a hot read that has the WR breaking off the route inside and the TE running down field. It should be the opposite. Put Cruz one on one with a DB. That way you potentially make them pay for blitzing. Even if Cruz catches that ball, it's a three yard gain.
So I would place the blame as follows (in order):
1. OL
2. Play design
3. Cruz
4. Eli
Note that it was 1.43 seconds from getting the snap to releasing the ball. The time he had to assess the pressure and start his throwing motion was probably closer to one second.
Not saying Eli was 0% at fault here. It's a tough situation to be in, but we pay him to make those kind of throws. But it's hard to not assign most of the blame to the blocking.