We Used To Joke That The NFL Had Become ...

If I wasn't so invested in the giants and to a lesser extent, fantasy football, my football passion would be losing steam.

I can live with the rules that protect players but the illegal contact bullshit is really hard to take. You have talented cornerbacks reduced to "overrated overpriced" athletes because they simply can't do their jobs anymore. I just don't understand what the nfl was thinking with these rules. Yes the scoring will increase but the actual product is total shite. Who cares if teams are scoring more points if the points come off penalties? Talk about anti climatic...

I can't believe I'm writing this but I really have to agree on losing some interest - and I used to be one of those guys who lived and died w/ the Giants and football. I'm starting to get very irritated about how this game has changed over the years. These penalties are killing the game we know. Commercials are another thing - watching the game is becoming so f-in tedious w/ endless commercial breaks. Maybe I'm just getting to old. Now get off my lawn.

if you want to see a lot of points scored, watch a professional bowling match.

The NFL of the mid / late 70s (I believe) became boring when the goal posts were still at the goal line and the "soccer style kickers" could kick 50 yard field goals. Once a team got into the other team's territory, a field goal attempt (ball stayed at the LOS, not the spot of the kick) could be made (e.g. a kick from the other team's 43 yard line was a 50 yard field goal).

That was fixed; maybe this can be fixed too.

but I much prefer to watch a crew of creative and gifted referees to those boring and overpaid players. What invention in the Giants-Cardinals game, what imagination. If only Broadway could equal that.

I gave up fantasy football four years ago and pretty much only watch Giant games now. Even that has lost appeal. Yesterday I spent the day on my boat watching the Blue Angels in Baltimore. Checking the Giants score was about all I did.

When the weather cools off more I'll spend more time watching games (including non Giant games) but while it's nice, being out doors takes precedence even to the Giants. That never would have been the case 5 years agin.

The NFL is going to fuck itself. I've never seen such apathy towards the game as I have this year. Domestic violence, a pathetic commissioner and the horrible officiating. I predict that next year the league will see it's first declining viewership in forever.

In their efforts to make the game more offensive, they've created a frustrating, boring slog of defensive penalties.

new NFL offensive strategy, Have the WR run right into the DB and draw a flag... 1st down

this league us now a Joke

College FB is far more entertaining now
I'll watch the Giants, but at work today, even the 9ers fans were telling me that the Refs are ruining the game

This pro offense strategy is terrible! The defenders, especially DBs are screwed. I hate the idea that you must give another player an unnecessry advantage. It's the one thing I hate about the NBA. Why on earth does the most talented player on the court also need to get the benefit of the calls. As much as loved Jordan's game, I just dont understand why the best player ever also needed to get the calls!

The games are just about unwatchable with a flag on almost every play.

the inconsistent / error-prone officiating makes it even worse.

The refs just gave the game to the %$#@! Eagles with the missed PI on Luck's pass that was intercepted and the BS horse collar on McCoy.

All calls need to be reviewable to at least give a chance to make up for the errors.

There was a time, right around Johnny Starks and Patrick, that I could tell you every single active player's college, then they started rap association. Making Spike Lee into anything that wasn't a Knick cancer, zone defense.

It's beyond unwatchable, gimme a Fordham/ Harvard game please.

if its a continuation if this week I call for a fan petition. I assume the other 31 fan boards have to be tired of this. Should be no problem getting 100k or more signatures.

Fantasy Football makes it interesting, add in leagues with IND D players and I have 60% of every teams rosters memorized. Can hold an intelligent conversation with any team's fan I might run into, that's worthwhile.

Fan Duel let's you play for profit weekly without putting up the kid's college fund, Red Zone Channel. It's the only way to watch football nowadays, gotta adjust or give into the dweebs...

Among those who love telling you how much they dont love the nba.

and if its because you think the product is worse, you dont know if a basketball is pumped with air or stuffed with feathers. The average nba player has never, ever been better. The globalization of the game and lack of expansion over the last 20 years has pushed the quality of the average player to unprecedented heights, competition is exponentially greater for roster spots

smh at glorifying the over expanded 90s which added like 7 teams in a very short span, most watered down nba since the merger, pre global explosion to boot. Worst era for skill level quite possibly ever. At minimum since the merger

Lot of the NBA hate is due to race, though you'll never get people to actually admit it. They'll careful dance around it.

NBA product right now is amazing, as Joe said. Ton of superstars & the league's arrow is definitely pointing up. Last year's playoffs were awesome.

I love the NFL & it remains my favorite sport by far, but the officiating sucks. It really is ruining the game.

but I can't stomach watching other teams play, too many flags, too many drives extended by the refs. Too many ticky tack fouls. The NFL is becoming a hard product to watch.

In comment 11865788 SanFranGiantsFan said:

Quote:

Lot of the NBA hate is due to race, though you'll never get people to actually admit it. They'll careful dance around it.

most of the time people are more discreet than calling it "the rap association" and including random, out of left field shots at spike lee

The NFL is 2/3 black. The NBA is 3/4 black. Do you really think that that extra 1/12 fraction of blacks is enough to push a racist from loving one league to hating another?

That's absolutely shitty reasoning and just a convenient race-baiting way to try to defend a sport you like.

I can only hope both will get better or else it's going to be rough season.

I do think some of the more vocal bashers have other motives, especially when theyre dropping code left and right. If you dont think thats the case your head is in the sand

In a league of helmet wearing players, most of the highest profile nfl players are indeed white. The faces of the league. Its not just about percentages

What tipped you off? Because I only mentioned Johnny Starks and Patrick Ewing and they're white? Shoulda went with James Worthy...

learn how to not grab the WRs. After they adjust there will be less flags.

It was more the rap stuff, and the inexplicable mention of one of the great white bogeymen, spike lee. Merely a courtside fan, somehow indicative of a declining product

the National Felony League.

have similar parallels here.

Of course the players are bigger and stronger than ever - probably even better than ever, but guess what, the game flows are being absolutely destroyed by the refs.

If you can watch a key NBA game and not be put off by the constant whistles and theatrics of players trying to draw whistles and think that commenting on that is a matter of race, I really don't know what to say.

The same thing happens in the NFL. Every pass play, there is either a flag, or a receiver or defender looking for a flag and gesturing for one to come. Every incomplete pass in bounds comes with a WR pulling a fake flag from his back pocket. And then when the flags do fly, they seem to be for random (or at least inconsistent) occurrences.

This doesn't have to do with race - it has to do with gameflow and perceived favortism. I'm pretty sure I'm not an avid Cuse fan for their token white guy on the floor, but I'll watch NCAA basketball almost every day in the Fall and completely ignore the NBA. Frankly, the players could be incredible, but if I have to wade through endless whistles to see a highlight and then watch the player who gave the highlight mug like an idiot, I'd rather watch less talented college guys.

NBA fans like to make this about race because for some odd reason, they refuse to accept that the game is shit for a lot of people. They will talk about the immense talent present as if it trumps all, but it doesn't. Talent hidden behind horrific calls turns a lot of people off. The NFL is headed in that direction too.

Thats a nice rant if it actually had any truth to it. Fact is free throw rates and foul calls have never been lower (conversely though, ft shooting has never been better).

The nba doesnt have a rise in foul calls to mirror the nfls growing flag issue, its actually the complete opposite of true

is simply age related. As people grow up they get busier and just aren't going to invest the time they used to in sports. I follow the Mets & Knicks much less on a day to day aspect because I'm just older now and busier, and I'm much more interested in the playoffs or a great matchup.

The reason the NFL is great is because the Giants are once a week, that is the beauty of it.

I think there a lot of racial implications with the NBA haters, but you have to be careful labeling anyone a racist for not being a fan of the sport. I do notice comments that NBA players are lazy and don't play defense which might be the most ignorant thing anyone can say, that deserves to be called out.

Was a Knick cancer. He was Reggie Miller's inspiration to singlehandedly take us apart. Hating Spike Lee has nothing to do with his movies and everything with hoping the Garden would take away his tickets.

And rap sucks, much like country music sucks and I actually started a thread questioning why the NFL associates itself with shitty music, which is mostly country. Gonna call me a redneck brasher now?

I'm guessing you're not old enough to remember the Knicks when they were good, if that's the case, shut up and listen but you're forgiven for the accusation...

Perception is reality.
you are continually blind to that. You think that because you like the NBA that anyone who criticizes it is full of shit. You talk about increased percentages of shots made and the better play - but the average fan doesn't see that.

They see the game stopped often. they see players flop. They see key stretches in the final minutes dominated with whistles. They see perceived favortism.

If we are using stats, I can tel you that people bitching about the NFL should shut up because offensive penalties have decreased by a third in the past ten years.

Stop bitching people, there's nothing to see here....

Certainly in more vivid detail than you. And blaming spike lee for reggie millers game 5 in 94 is just silly, always has been. By the way the knicks won that series anyway.

when the knicks were better than indy, we beat them in postseason. When we werent, we didnt. Maybe we were better in 95 but ewing was playing hurt

YOU were the guy wearing the 3D glasses!

GET OFF MY LAWN!

You just said something that was the exact opposite of right, literally could not be more wrong, but then want to hide behind "perception is reality"? Can I just state blatant inaccuracies and then throw that out there to act like my position has validity? Maybe you should ask why some perception is so backward? Maybe because some people arent paying any attention and hide behind bullshit reasons as to why

of right means shit if the public doesn't believe it.

Ask a casual fan of the NBA if the fouls called are lower now than before. Hell, ask a die-hard fan of the NFL if offensive penalties are significantly down.

We see this happen all the time. you tell us how great the NBA is and when people don't agree, it is implied we are racists, or ignorant to the perception that is evident to most out there.

I hate to break it to you, but you are in the minority in thinking that there are no issues with the way NBA games are officiated. That's reflected in attendance and ratings.

Here is a good attendance look:

Code:

League Teams Recent Average Attendance 2009 Avg. Attendance Trend Since 2009 Team games per year Source National Football League 32 67,604 (2012) 65,043 +2,561 16 [27] Major League Baseball 30 30,514 (2013) 30,300 +214 162 [28] Canadian Football League 9 28,193 (2012) 28,054 +139 18 [29][30] Major League Soccer 19 18,523 (2013) 16,037 +2,486 34 [31] National Hockey League 30 17,695 (2014) 17,460 +235 82 [32] National Basketball Association 30 17,408 (2014) 17,520 �112 82 [33]

It is probably not easy to see in the formatting, but attendance in the NBA is DOWN 112% since 2009. The only pro league not to at least double their attendance!

You can bitch about perception - but it looks like it is reality.

of the game.

FMIC is on point.

But the 3 seasons in nba history with the fewest ft attempts?

2012. 2013. 2014.

The 9 lowest ft attempt seasons have all come since 2002. But here we are in an era of excessive whistles and ft that make the game unwatchable

its about as accurate as saying the nfl of today blows because they make the game too hard on qbs and defensive struggles are boring. Its not just mistaken, its actually the complete opposite of true. As wrong as wrong gets.

completely missing the perception is reality point.

The point is most fans do not think there is a reduction in fouls in the NBA.

It would be like people beating the drum that NFL kickers are significantly more accurate now than 10 years ago when they are almost exactly the same.

My perception is that kickers are much more accurate - but it isn't true. Still doesn't change my perception.

you are completely wrong talking about television ratings. no pro league save for the nfl is a bigger product on television than the nba. at this point the nba finals is consistently and petennially more watched than the world series. their regular season and other postseason national games slay baseball. and the impending newtv deal will easily surpass mlb as the 2nd pro sport. theres a reason why the 2nd franchise in the la market just went for 2 billion. revenues are about to explode with the new tv contract. and the signs long term are ridiculously promising. it is along with the nfl the only sport non whites watch in big numbers (key in a browning america), and unlike baseball it is wildly popular among people under 50. about the only demo nba struggles with is the 50 plus year old white guy (presumably you and rocky). as for attendance, im as big an nba fan as any and I havent been to a game in years. not a sign im down on the sport

Maybe the problem is theyre just a dumbass.

In comment 11865985 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

of right means shit if the public doesn't believe it. Ask a casual fan of the NBA if the fouls called are lower now than before. Hell, ask a die-hard fan of the NFL if offensive penalties are significantly down. We see this happen all the time. you tell us how great the NBA is and when people don't agree, it is implied we are racists, or ignorant to the perception that is evident to most out there. I hate to break it to you, but you are in the minority in thinking that there are no issues with the way NBA games are officiated. That's reflected in attendance and ratings. Here is a good attendance look: Code: League Teams Recent Average Attendance 2009 Avg. Attendance Trend Since 2009 Team games per year Source National Football League 32 67,604 (2012) 65,043 +2,561 16 [27] Major League Baseball 30 30,514 (2013) 30,300 +214 162 [28] Canadian Football League 9 28,193 (2012) 28,054 +139 18 [29][30] Major League Soccer 19 18,523 (2013) 16,037 +2,486 34 [31] National Hockey League 30 17,695 (2014) 17,460 +235 82 [32] National Basketball Association 30 17,408 (2014) 17,520 �112 82 [33] It is probably not easy to see in the formatting, but attendance in the NBA is DOWN 112% since 2009. The only pro league not to at least double their attendance! You can bitch about perception - but it looks like it is reality.

My rebuttal is that the NFL attendence and viewership has never been higher even though the product has never been worse.

I am a NBA/NFL fan. And after watching the debacle that has started off this year in the NFL.... I definitely enjoy watching the NBA more. Just my preference. Its sad that the only reason I watch non-giants game is because I have fantasy implications.

could attendance be down 112%? That would mean that the average attendance is -2000 people.

you just got proven wrong on the foul thing.

The perception thing only makes sense if you're going for a post-modernist "there is no real truth" philosophy. This is basically saying "I perceive 2+2 = 5, so it could be true". Or "I perceive that Andy Dalton completes 80% of his passes, so he's a great QB."

If there's less fouls, there's less fouls. The perception that there is more fouls is just incorrect.

that the most watched sport in the world is soccer. It's a LOW scoring game.

Is it just Americans that insist on high scoring? Hell, even hockey is low scoring and has plenty of fans.

The NFL should think this shit over.

can watch college basketball over the NBA because of foul calls. That's just a ridiculous claim.

FTA/FGA = Free Throw Rate

2014 NBA FTr: .284
2014 NCAA FTr: ~.402

As a matter of fact out of the 351 College Basketball schools, a grand total of 2! of them had a FTr that was lower than the .284 NBA average FTr. Those 2 schools had a .283 FTr (Cornell and Colgate).

So that's just a bogus claim. Completely false to a ridiculous degree based on the actual facts.

And it shouldn't take these numbers to prove to you how many whistles you get in the college game. The only difference is that the name in the front of the jersey gets you the calls in college whereas the name in the back of the jersey gets you the call in the NBA. Coach K and Duke get more calls than MJ could ever dream of.

The college game is just so inferior to the NBA game. Worse everything besides environment, the college environment just kills the NBA. But you could say that for football and pretty much every sport.

understand how you can say you liked the NBA in the 90s but not like it now cause of foul calls and then see Joe's data and not backtrack.

I think a lot of the people who like college ball over NBA like it because the athletes don't get paid and/or they have a connection to a university that plays bigtime college bball. The NBA is in a great spot right now and is the #3 most popular sport in the country (behind NFL and NCAAF).

darren rovell ‏@darrenrovell 3m

Roughly same # of people in the US were watching Bears-49ers as people watching final minutes of clinching game of NBA Finals this year.

The NFL runs laps around every other sport in this country, regardless of controversies or frustration with penalties.

In comment 11865881 chris r said:

Quote:

The NFL is 2/3 black. The NBA is 3/4 black. Do you really think that that extra 1/12 fraction of blacks is enough to push a racist from loving one league to hating another? That's absolutely shitty reasoning and just a convenient race-baiting way to try to defend a sport you like.

Total BS. If you don't think race plays a factor in why some people don't like the NBA, you're f*cking clueless. I've met people who have all but said that. Obviously that doesn't apply to every person, but it's more than you think.

In comment 11866885 SanFranGiantsFan said:

Quote:

In comment 11865881 chris r said: Quote: The NFL is 2/3 black. The NBA is 3/4 black. Do you really think that that extra 1/12 fraction of blacks is enough to push a racist from loving one league to hating another? That's absolutely shitty reasoning and just a convenient race-baiting way to try to defend a sport you like. Total BS. If you don't think race plays a factor in why some people don't like the NBA, you're f*cking clueless. I've met people who have all but said that. Obviously that doesn't apply to every person, but it's more than you think.

not to miller the thread SFGF, but do you still dislike the Clintons?

I'm ambivalent towards them, & fully expecting them to be everywhere two years hence.

Im not a colin cowherd fan but he had a great open today talking about the nba race aspect. It was in the context of an erroneous image problem some have with the league. Here is a stat.....

since the nba regular season ended in april, over 5 months ago, we have seen one arrest of a player. For a dui on his 27th birthday. Thats all. Greg oden had a domestic violence incident, but he wasnt/isnt on an nba roster right now. One arrest the entire offseason. Training camps about to open shortly