the "No Fun League" under Goodell. Given 4 to 5 weeks of preseason football and 2 weeks of the regular season in 2014, it is even worse, with the NFL now standing for the "Neverending Flags League" IMHO. The fact that so many are "ticky tack" flags makes it worse.
I find my enjoyment for NFL games, especially those not involving the Giants, to have waned significantly. Last year's Broncos versus Cowboys 51-45 game must be the model that Goodell wants for the NFL; lots of points for fans watching solely to see how their fantasy team did.
The Sunday Night game between the 49ers and the Bears was really hard to watch. I don't have any statistics to back me up (and I attended a game at FedEx in 2003 that saw the Skins flagged 17 times and the Giants flagged 15 times), but the trend to numerous game changing flags seems to be accelerating.
I'm OK with the new rules reducing helmet to helmet contact etc. for player safety, but the new "stricly enforced" illegal contact rules are causing me to watch less football. When contact that wouldn't draw a foul in the NBA is a penalty in the NFL, things are significantly off track.
Unfortunately, as long as we fans still tune in, I don't see anything changing. Pretty depressing, especially for older fans used to "Giants Football = Giants Defense".
I hate Goodell's Neverending Flags League.
The stats obviously prove that the perception is incorrect, but then why is the NBA the only professional league to have attendance decline since 2009?
You can argue that the NBA is awesome and you can quote stats regarding the fouls declining, but what do you think the average fan perceives?
That's a bigger issue and the driving force behind the negative perceptions.
There's also the aligning of the stars so to speak which couldn't dis-interest me anymore than it already does, which is why I love the college game, flaws and all.
And then there's why all major pro sports are losing me as a fan, so much money, so much crying, so much attention, etc. I've stepped away and found more important things for me to care about (again, this is just me).
I think you couldnt be more mistaken in the depiction of a declining brand. This new tv deal is going to be insane.
It's probably because of a new building with lower capacity or because the 76ers suck so bad that people stopped going to their games or just randomness. Those changes are completely meaningless statistically.
When was the last time an NHL player got arrested for hitting his kid.. or a woman.. or a DUI?
Fuckin right.
I saw you on BBI a few years ago compare the NHL to the KKK and call Ray Guy a redneck after his HOF speech.
There are some sports you are uncomfortable with I'm sure and some people on here are definitely not comfortable with the NBA...I'm not saying it's right, but it's there.
Tolerance is very selective among all of BBI.
When was the last time an NHL player got arrested for hitting his kid.. or a woman.. or a DUI?
Fuckin right.
5 months ago, Ryan Malone...
When was the last time an NHL player got arrested for hitting his kid.. or a woman.. or a DUI?
Fuckin right.
A lot of people say the NHL players are by far the best in these regards.
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Speaking of crimes..
When was the last time an NHL player got arrested for hitting his kid.. or a woman.. or a DUI?
Fuckin right.
A lot of people say the NHL players are by far the best in these regards.
The NHL's the best in every regard.
Roughly same # of people in the US were watching Bears-49ers as people watching final minutes of clinching game of NBA Finals this year.
That's insane.
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Speaking of crimes..
When was the last time an NHL player got arrested for hitting his kid.. or a woman.. or a DUI?
Fuckin right.
5 months ago, Ryan Malone...
Ryan Malone doesn't count. He's a crackhead. And a Ranger :(
My point was. It's rare you have many incidents with NHL players off the ice. You rarely hear about any of these guys getting into trouble. The worst you hear is that a couple of guys fuck with the white devil. I can't remember an NHL player recently getting arrested for domestic violence or child abuse.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
And ray guy is a redneck. You can feign offense over that if you want, I guess.
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In comment 11869427 arcarsenal said:
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Speaking of crimes..
When was the last time an NHL player got arrested for hitting his kid.. or a woman.. or a DUI?
Fuckin right.
5 months ago, Ryan Malone...
Ryan Malone doesn't count. He's a crackhead. And a Ranger :(
My point was. It's rare you have many incidents with NHL players off the ice. You rarely hear about any of these guys getting into trouble. The worst you hear is that a couple of guys fuck with the white devil. I can't remember an NHL player recently getting arrested for domestic violence or child abuse.
You're right, generally clean cut. Some reported party animals. But the NHL tends to be stuck up in that regard (look at Philly trading some very good players over partying issues, and even the Bruins trading Seguin because he partied hard). You hear some stories about Kane, but few arrests.
The NHL's the best. If we could eliminate Boston and their racist outbursts every time a black player beats them in the playoffs, we'd be all set.
"Exclusively" is a pretty strong word considering a fair amount of the people just here on BBI who feel this way aren't yet 50, including myself.
I remember in the Jordan years, the NBA was going to become the #1 sport in America by 2010. Then 2010 passed and it is still entrenched as the #3 sport in the US.
Is it just the 50 year old white guys holding it back?
Not surprising. He grew up in Georgia and went to Southern Mississippi. Outside of his time in Oakland, he's shied away from the spotlight. Yet, you probably wouldn't know that he has set up punting and kicking camps held across the country.
You probably don't know jack shit about Ray Guy but the way he talks, yet feel confident enough to say that old, white geezers over 50 hate the NBA because of blacks.
Incredible.
And I dont recall a single person saying in the mj era that the nba would surpass the nfl. They have already surpassed baseball by many indicators and with the way the demographics shape up they will obliterate it within a decade. By the time the new tv deal comes revenues will be insane. Thats why the 2nd team in the la market just went for 2 bil
arc, do a 5 on tv for a cup finals game and get back to me. Nhl tv ratings are closer to the wnba
Could be because you were 12 at the time and middle schoolers didn't talk about that.
Meanwhile, let me get back to my canasta game with the racist old folks.
And I dont recall a single person saying in the mj era that the nba would surpass the nfl. They have already surpassed baseball by many indicators and with the way the demographics shape up they will obliterate it within a decade. By the time the new tv deal comes revenues will be insane. Thats why the 2nd team in the la market just went for 2 bil
arc, do a 5 on tv for a cup finals game and get back to me. Nhl tv ratings are closer to the wnba
Game 6 in 2013 did a 4.7
Fuck outta here with the WNBA comp. It's not even close.
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There is a very specific demo that holds these perceptions. Its pretty much exclusively limited to over 50 and white.
"Exclusively" is a pretty strong word considering a fair amount of the people just here on BBI who feel this way aren't yet 50, including myself.
I remember in the Jordan years, the NBA was going to become the #1 sport in America by 2010. Then 2010 passed and it is still entrenched as the #3 sport in the US.
Is it just the 50 year old white guys holding it back?
Who said that again? If you don't like the NBA, you don't like the NBA. Billions of people don't like the NBA, NFL, American Idol, The Sopranos, and everything else. But just say you don't like the NBA. There's no need to fabricate all this stuff to rationalize it.
The NBA finals generally did anywhere from a 12-18 in the finals in regards to TV ratings, while the average was a 9.3 for this years final. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but am I off base here?
The Jordan era produced excellent TV ratings.
Link - ( New Window )
that is not to engage in some strawman that im depicting all of those people as racists, because im not. But its absolutely a factor. Its the height of disingenuous to claim its not
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In tv audience, the only pro sport it trails in this country is the nfl.
And I dont recall a single person saying in the mj era that the nba would surpass the nfl. They have already surpassed baseball by many indicators and with the way the demographics shape up they will obliterate it within a decade. By the time the new tv deal comes revenues will be insane. Thats why the 2nd team in the la market just went for 2 bil
arc, do a 5 on tv for a cup finals game and get back to me. Nhl tv ratings are closer to the wnba
Game 6 in 2013 did a 4.7
Fuck outta here with the WNBA comp. It's not even close.
Don't worry, hockey fans can think for themselves and don't need other people to like what they like.
#lolgroupthink
The NBA finals generally did anywhere from a 12-18 in the finals in regards to TV ratings, while the average was a 9.3 for this years final. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but am I off base here?
The Jordan era produced excellent TV ratings.
With few exceptions, you cant directly compare tv ratings apples to apples with decades ago. Because virtually everything is down in sports and broadcast tv except the audience on super bowl sunday in the nfl. There are more channels now, cable is also more widely subscribed to, almost all people have internet in their homes, some choose not to watch live, etc. Its a completely different landscape and there are more options
compare how the nba and mlb have related to eachother over time. 35 years ago the nba finals were on tape delay, mlb was doing 30s for world series games. The nba got off tape delay in the 80s, caught up in the 90s for a brief period with mlb on tv, saw a decline after mj, but have now climbed back to where the nba finals best the world series every year. The ratings for earlier rounds of the postseason and national regular season games gave a much bigger gap than even that
Rocky Thompson said he stopped watching the NBA because of "rap association", and he's far from the only one. Allen Iverson had a huge impact on the game culturally because of the way he looked. He was tatted up, he had corn rows, and he didn't hide where he came from. An entire generation of athletes followed Iverson's example and this turned off a shit ton of people.
I also think race negatively affects the NHL. But I feel like what really kills the NHL is that "ice sports" are viewed as very regional.
nope, but its significantly whiter, both overall and even moreso in the makeup of its most relevant figures. Youre fooling yourself if you dont think it plays a role
and arc..... the nhl cup tv ratings are indeed closer to the wnba than the nba finals. A 3 or 4 is closer to whatever the wnba does than it is a 9 or 10, simple math
technically, the ratings for the cup final is closer to the tv ratings for when I wipe my ass after taking a shit, then it is to the nba finals
The NBA is the most popular sport among young male blacks. So, a decline in attendance would be attributed to racist, white guys, but on the positive side, the league is being infused with attention from young blacks.
MLB is very popular with Hispanics from 30-45 and draws well with hispanics of all ages. But we don't focus on the positives - only the negatives. So when viewership of baseball drops(and the viewers fleeing the sport are predominantly black), should we accuse blacks of being racist for not watching the game anymore?
No. Jerry made the point that millions of people don't like a lot of things above. I agree. But yet, when ever people don't think the NBA is the greatest thing since sliced bread, it HAS to be because we are racist?
Granted, I prefer white bread (especially Wonder bread), but my particular distaste for the NBA is in the fact that it is unwatchable for me. Add in the fact that i don't particularly care for any certain team, and there is little motivation for me to watch. The times I do is to root against somebody, like the Heat, moreso than to root for somebody like the Spurs.
Same reason I don't really care for golf, tennis or the MLS.
Yet, I'm a huge International soccer fan. Does that make me racist against White Americans?
There is a huge gap between viewership of the NHL and WNBA. Just because it's not as close to the NBA doesn't mean a damn thing.
Viewership for the SCF in the last 2 years have been higher than they've been in 20 years. Cable viewership was up 10% from just last year and it was the most watched Stanley Cup playoffs on cable in 17 years.
Clearly people care and there's trend upward.
The NBA gets higher ratings. Wonderful. Simple minds enjoy a simple sport. Easy to pick up and play, easy to understand. Hockey confuses a lot of people so they don't get into it. It is what it is. Doesn't mean it sucks.
Perception is often reality. If you ask the average fan what they don't like about the NBA, what are their responses going to be? Probably something about the games appearing to be predetermined and something about favortism and reffing.
You can post all the stats in the world debunking it, but if that's what people feel, that's what they feel.
It is only BS if it is false AND there is no impact on the viewership or attendance.
You'd find the same thing in other leagues too. Fans might say the MLB games are too long and boring. They might say they don't like that HR's are down. But outside of certain trends (related to steroids), HR's are actually up vs. other supposedly "clean" era's.
If perception causes people to not watch, then it is as important as reality, because it has become it.
The nba is getting by with a great deal of white support too. They arent the 2nd most watched pro sport in this country soley on the backs of african american viewership, when they are like what, 12 percent of the usa?
Looks like he succeeded.
Perception isn't reality, it's perception. And when perception is so completely off from the actual reality, you begin to question why that difference exists.
The perception of the NBA is further off from the reality off it than pretty much any of the other major sports in the country. So that's why people start to bring race discussions into it trying to figure out if that's the reason why people are so wrong about the sport.
I mean, you've only done this what.. 500 times on this board?
Hockey actually is more complex and harder to grasp than the NBA. I grew up watching both. I understood everything about basketball much faster than I understood all the nuances in hockey. Basketball is more accessible and easier for people to "get". It has more to do with the popularity than you probably realize.
But.. TV ratings.
The NFL is the most popular sport in this country by far, and it's also easily the hardest sport to understand out of the "Big 4" by far.
Simplicity matters in popularity but it clearly has a limited impact when the NFL dominates the sports landscape in this country.
Personally I don't see much about hockey that's more complex than basketball. Every sport will have it's share of complexity or nuance if you dig deep enough. Basketball looks simple enough, but once you start breaking down all the different ways teams play PnR defense, the way teams try to obtain/prevent corner 3's, etc - there's a lot there. Same with other simple-looking sports like hockey and soccer. There are tons of tactics if you really want to get involved.
Then, of course, there's football which is so complicated that basically nobody really understands it.
I think that contributes to the fact that it has a very diehard core following, but doesn't appeal to the casual fan.
NBA gets better TV ratings, but that's only because there are more CASUAL fans.
Joe- most people who watch the NBA don't break it down like you do nor could they. You and Osi are two of the best NBA posters on the board, but most people who watch the sport aren't breaking down numbers like the each of you are. Most people can talk LeBron, talk about the teams out west, talk about their own team and watch the playoffs. Ratings=casual fans.
It's more of a familiarity thing. But my point is.. most people in this country are more assimilated to the sports they actually played on the playground or in little league. Not many people actually played hockey, so.. they find it more confusing.
You don't really find hockey fans who are drawn to the sport because of Crosby or Stamkos or guys like that. Most people who are into hockey are really into hockey as a team sport.
That's not to say there aren't legit NBA fans. It's just that the types of NBA fans even on this board aren't really the norm. There are things on the NBA threads here that are like a foreign language to casual fans.
Doesn't make one better than the other but to me, I just always felt like hockey had far less casual fans. People who like hockey are usually pretty invested in it as a whole.