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Is Perry Fewell getting it done??

prdave73 : 9/16/2014 4:26 am
Imo I don't think so.. I don't even think he is game planning against teams at times. His schemes are not working for this defense, and he is not getting these players to play their best..

I don't get how the Giants can shore up on CB's in the offeseason and improve the defense as a whole but continue to look down right awful especially like they did against the Lions?? Allowing Calvin Johnson to torch them for 7 catches 164 yds 2 TD on 23.5 Avg?! How does this happen? Sure CJ is a freak and the top WR in the league, not many teams can completely shut him down, all you can do as a defense is hope to contain him.. Unfortunately Fewell did nothing to contain him or gameplan for him, why? He completely let him go wild on the Giants defense. Now week 2 comes along and the Panthers completely shut down the Lions offense and contain CJ to only 83 yds total?! CJ still managed to get 83 yds which is good but the key is they contained him enough for him not to do to much damage! The Panthers defense dominated the Lions offense from start to finish..

The Panthers DC obivously game planned for Calvin Johnson and the new Lions offense.. Perry Fewell did not and heres an example. If you looked at some of the Panther's defensive
highlights you will see that the Lions offense ran a similar route for CJ over the top of the Panthers defense to get a big gain like they did against the Giants defense, except instead of the Giants defenders crashing into each other and CJ running deep down the middle of field for a TD the Panthers defenders had one CB stay with him as he ran his route and the safety stayed in the middle of the field to meet the cornerback and double up on him.

If you check out the highlight you can see the defense played it perfect, the CB and Safety both doubled CJ and they even had another cornerback come from the other side of the field to help that intercepted the ball that the other two defenders tipped away from Calvin Johnson! The Panthers defense executed the play to perfection thus avoiding a potential gain or TD. This kind of stuff is not being done by Fewell, he is not getting the potential out from this talented Giants secondary. Sure some will say well they do have a very good defensive minded head Coach, and they have a better defense overall.. Yes I definately agree they do have a better DC, but do they really have a better defense then the Giants?? Take a look at both teams below. Keep in mind the Panthers played the Lions without Greg Hardy, and played a DE that has been around a few teams in M. Addison?

Imo the Giants have the better fron four, JPP is a stud when healthy, Hankins has alot of potential, Jenkins is a stud, and Kiwi can get the job done. I think you add Moore in the mix and the front four has alot of potential. LB's the Panthers edge out the Giants on this position. Kuechly is better then Beasons, Davis beats out McClain, but is Blackburn better then Williams?? Are they that much more talented at the LB position?? Seconday imo the Giants Edge the Panthers. At CB position DRC beats out "newly" added Cason, Prince beats out M.White, Pro bowler A.Rolle better then R.Harper, and its' a tie between S.Brown and T.DeCoud.
Old Stevie Brown no question he is better the Thomas Decoud. Also add CB Walter Thurmond in the mix and you have imo a better overall secondary. So is the Panther defense more talented then the Giants?? And of thats not the case why do they look so much better defensively?

The Panthers just added Roman Harper and A.Cason who are new to the system, played without Greg Hardy and yet their defense looked technically sound??! Played lights out football against the new high powered Lions offense which previously put up 426 yds of offense againt the Giants defense.. Why are the Panther's getting better production from their players defensively?? It's one of the main reason the Giants are failing as defense this season so far, they are just not getting that production from their players. It all falls on the DC's lap, and Perry Fewell is not getting the job done and hasn't been for awhile now..


Giant's Defense

LDE 94 M.Kiwanuka
DT 99 C.Jenkins
DT 95 J.Hankins
RDE 90 J.Pierre-Paul
SLB 53 J.McClain
MLB 52 J.Beason
WLB 57 J.Williams
LCB 21 D.Rodgers-Cromartie
RCB 20 P.Amukamara
SS 26 A.Rolle
FS 27 S.Brown


Panther's Defense

LE 95 C.Johnson
DT 91 C.Cole
DT 98 S.Lotulelei
RE 97 M.Addison
SLB 93 C.Blackburn
MLB 59 L.Kuechly
WLB 58 T.Davis
LCB 20 A.Cason
RCB 23 M.White
SS 41 R.Harper
FS 21 T.DeCoud
I'm not really sure why it seems as though  
Curtis in VA : 9/16/2014 5:54 am : link
EVERY season this secondary is complaining about communication issues. Sometimes they get it corrected and when they do, the defense seems to work but then its right back to square one again the next season. The offense is new but whats his excuse?

He earned himself some extra time because of the Super Bowl and last year he was able to feast on some really awful offenses but I he's not a great defensive coach. We could do a lot worse though.
Fewell's  
RetroJint : 9/16/2014 6:49 am : link
last 2 bad games were against Detroit & last season against the Chargers. Couple of things about Carolina: 1. They got to watch Detroit on film. The film study after Week 1 is the most important in the league. 2. Carolina's offense moved the ball.

Fewell is not a Cover 2 coach. He plays very little of it but he used it extensively against the Lions. I don't think Brown has the speed to play in that defense. Hill won the game against them in 2 with a pick. Brown is not Hill. Fewell's defenses work best when he has 3 solid safeties. He doesn't this year.

Carolina rushes the quarterback with their D-Line better than the Giants. Their linebackers, inluding Blackburn, are light years better than the Giants. Do you see the irony in your personnel assessment between the teams? The Giants have 1 legitimate NFL backer. That is Beason, whom Carolina sought fit to trade. How does that fact inform your analysis?

Perry is a solid coach. His defenses are not any more complicated than any other in the league. The flashcard response in the NY media circus is always "complicated." Well watch the rest of the league. You see blown coverages and finger pointing. Where Did He Go Webster, from whom Banks & Bleacher Report Patti used to cull their daily bilge against Fewell, was infamous in placing the blame on miscommunication.

What do i think of Fewell? The wins against Green Bay & New England. Yeah he has had his stinkers just as Parcells & Belichick did. Robert Depino or Randal Cunningham, Mr. Banks?
But I think he is a solid coach. And I agree with Tom's comments yesterday about the DBs. Get 2 hands on the ball, catch it.


I think he gameplans,  
Simms11 : 9/16/2014 6:55 am : link
however he does not adjust in games very well IMO. He tries to get to cute at times, just to get bitten in the ass. Additionally, our front 4 seem above average and our back 4, as well, but the LBs are lacking still. Fewell has to not only game plan, but cover up his weaknesses there too. Lastly, his coverages are usually too soft , giving up way to much space.
He  
SoZKillA : 9/16/2014 7:43 am : link
Doesn't play to the strengths of his players.

Prince, DRC, and Thurmond are all man to man corners yet he will go cover 2 on 2nd and 3rd down. He would have Thurmond covering TEs instead of slot WRs which he was brought in here to do.

dbs looked like  
SBlue46 : 9/16/2014 8:14 am : link
Playing hot potato. ..in zone..1 stops and lets
the other take over...tbut other guy doesn't
Questions for those  
Jerry in DC : 9/16/2014 8:21 am : link
who are sure that Fewell is not doing a good job based on the criteria that you've laid out:

- How often do the Giants blitz?
- How does this compare to the rest of the league?
- How often to the Giants play Cover 2?
- How does this compare to the rest of the league?

Actual numbers please. I'm sure you guys have this information, since you seem to be so sure about your opinions.
RE: Questions for those  
chris r : 9/16/2014 8:25 am : link
In comment 11865839 Jerry in DC said:
Quote:
who are sure that Fewell is not doing a good job based on the criteria that you've laid out:

- How often do the Giants blitz?
- How does this compare to the rest of the league?
- How often to the Giants play Cover 2?
- How does this compare to the rest of the league?

Actual numbers please. I'm sure you guys have this information, since you seem to be so sure about your opinions.


That's a very unrealistic expectation for having a strong opinion about a coach. Would you have expected those numbers from Bill Sheridan detractors?
No idea why we're having this discussion...  
arcarsenal : 9/16/2014 8:29 am : link
...multiple times after the game we just played where the defense was the least of our concerns. But apparently people expect shutouts every week and sacking a QB 4 times and holding him to 167 passing yards isn't enough.

So let me just get the Fewell complaints that everyone regurgitates regardless of how true or untrue (usually untrue) they are out of the way..

"He plays his CB's 10 yards off constantly" ( no, he doesn't )

"He always has them in a soft zone coverage" ( no, he doesn't )

"There are always miscommunications" ( there are miscommunications at some points in most secondaries. Until someone proves that it happens more to our football team than every other team, it's mostly hogwash. Watch more football. )

"He's always running a shittty Tampa 2" ( no, he's not.. just because Gruden pointed it out on one play does not mean it's the alignment we show constantly )

"He doesn't play to the strengths of our players" ( this is where people fail to realize that the CB's aren't the only defensive players on the field. Everyone wants man coverage until we lose Jon Beason and Mark Herzlich gets caught covering a quick RB or is mismatched against a physically superior TE. Just because DRC and Prince may excel in man doesn't mean our linebackers will. And mostly, they don't"

And the last point, which Retro made, is that Fewell has been at his best when he's been able to use 3 safeties and use his Bison package. Well, guess what. He can't this year because Will Hill is gone, Mundy is gone and now his 3rd safety is Demps and Stevie Brown is about a slow as a snail as it is. He has one good safety (Rolle)

The game against the Lions sucked. We have to be better than that. But we were on Sunday.

Fewell's defenses were also top 5 in turnovers forced in 2010, 2011 and 2012 and were 8th last year. The guy is not nearly as bad as some of you make him out to be and a lot of the issues you think our defense has are not things uncommon to most of the league. Every defense runs zone coverages at times. Guys get open at some points in football games. It happens.

But I've already exhausted myself on this topic and really no matter what, these posts are going to keep popping up no matter how baseless they are, so.. FIRE FEWELL!
RE: RE: Questions for those  
Jerry in DC : 9/16/2014 8:36 am : link
In comment 11865842 chris r said:
Quote:
In comment 11865839 Jerry in DC said:


Quote:


who are sure that Fewell is not doing a good job based on the criteria that you've laid out:

- How often do the Giants blitz?
- How does this compare to the rest of the league?
- How often to the Giants play Cover 2?
- How does this compare to the rest of the league?

Actual numbers please. I'm sure you guys have this information, since you seem to be so sure about your opinions.



That's a very unrealistic expectation for having a strong opinion about a coach. Would you have expected those numbers from Bill Sheridan detractors?


If I were trying to make the case that we don't blitz enough and play too much zone, the 1st thing I'd do is try to figure out how much we blitz and how much zone we play. Then I'd compare those numbers to the rest of the league.

Otherwise I'd just be making things up (which is exactly what most of these posters are doing).
My problem with Fewell is, and always has been, his inability...  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 8:47 am : link
to get the defense off the field on 3rd down. Regardless of how he tries to do it.

3rd down conversion ranking in the Fewell Era:

2014: 31st 53.6% (so far)
2013: 22nd 40.1%
2012: 30th 42.4%
2011: 16th 36.7%
2010: 1st 31.7%
And not only that, but specifically their ability to get off the field  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 8:55 am : link
in crucial spots.

For instance, right after the offense puts us up, they let the other team go right down the field and take the lead back, or get close to it.
Is Perry Fewell getting it done??  
chiefmps : 9/16/2014 8:55 am : link
No matter who the defensive coordinator is for this Giants team the question will be the same base on the talent this team has. It's just not is Perry getting it done... The should also be is Jerry Reese drafting the people and signing the players needed to make this a better team?
arcarsenal  
JoefromPa : 9/16/2014 8:58 am : link
yes fans overstate their case when they are frustrated. But sometimes you just have to go by what you see. Perry Fewell's defense does not get off the field often enough on 3rd down.

Even during the last "Super Bowl season. Where would the Giants have been had Romo not overthrown a wide open receiver on 3rd down after Eli had brought the Giants back into the game. Answer: home watching the play offs.

In the Super Bowl itself. Brady and Welker hook up on a wide open receiver, no Super Bowl victory for the Giants. Even at 4th and 18 to clinch the victory his defense couldn't get a stop instead having to withstand a hail Mary that came too close to be completed.

I don't have the stats, you ask for, but my eyes don't lie. His defense for the most part gives up too many big plays week in and week out.

Tell me, are you confident they will get a stop on 3rd down, regardless of the yardage. I'm not.

Last week 3rd and 18. I said to my kids. I don't feel confident that they will get a stop here......they didn't
You may not recall/believe this,  
Big Blue '56 : 9/16/2014 9:11 am : link
but even some of the great Parcells teams couldn't get off the field on 3rd downs, more than you think..I remember how frustrating that was AND I was drinking then, exaccerbating the anger..

Not comparing the two squads, just the selective memories..Again, for the 46th time, going back to my first year, 1956, the fans were calling them the "3rd down Giants."
I have often questioned Fewell  
Blue Blood : 9/16/2014 10:08 am : link
but until the Giants get someone on the other side who can rush the passer consistently.. stop fielding mediocre linebackers and a get a secondary that doesnt get hurt EVERY single year... and a safety who can play consistently OTHER than Rolle.. you wont know what Fewell can do... You cant win the Kentucky Derby on a donkey with a whip...
why is Chase Blackburn not a Giant, Reese come on man  
gtt350 : 9/16/2014 10:15 am : link
.
an exceptional D line of Tuck/Osi and JPP  
BeerFridge : 9/16/2014 10:17 am : link
masked his deficiencies. He's fucking terrible, IMO.
at some point the players bear ...  
nyblue56 : 9/16/2014 10:25 am : link
responsibility as well. you have to know the defense well enough that you understand what the people around you are doing. Part of the problem is that too many times guys dont know what their teamates are doing. The fix requires commitment to study and time practicing and playing with each other. For all the simplication talk on BBI, Rolle himself said simplication should not be necessary if guys would just learn what there are suppose to do.
no. not a fan, never will be.  
Victor in CT : 9/16/2014 10:52 am : link
got to go.
No.  
Red Dog : 9/16/2014 11:19 am : link
Sorry.
RE: an exceptional D line of Tuck/Osi and JPP  
arcarsenal : 9/16/2014 11:41 am : link
In comment 11866009 BeerFridge said:
Quote:
masked his deficiencies. He's fucking terrible, IMO.


Then I guess awesome players like Thomas, Sherman, Chancellor, Avril, etc all just mask the deficiencies of the Seattle defense too, right?

This is such a weird way to look at it. Which defenses perform well without any good players? By your logic, any good defense is just having its deficiencies "masked" by the good players on it and every DC sucks.
I'm still confused by all this  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2014 11:43 am : link
While the Giants have been subpar in all three phases of the game, the defense has performed the best of the three. So, why is Fewell the one getting all the flack? Christ, special teams pretty much singlehandedly cost them the Cardinals game.
Yes!  
Randy in CT : 9/16/2014 11:44 am : link
The defense has been great!
RE: arcarsenal  
arcarsenal : 9/16/2014 11:45 am : link
In comment 11865879 JoefromPa said:
Quote:
yes fans overstate their case when they are frustrated. But sometimes you just have to go by what you see. Perry Fewell's defense does not get off the field often enough on 3rd down.

Even during the last "Super Bowl season. Where would the Giants have been had Romo not overthrown a wide open receiver on 3rd down after Eli had brought the Giants back into the game. Answer: home watching the play offs.

In the Super Bowl itself. Brady and Welker hook up on a wide open receiver, no Super Bowl victory for the Giants. Even at 4th and 18 to clinch the victory his defense couldn't get a stop instead having to withstand a hail Mary that came too close to be completed.

I don't have the stats, you ask for, but my eyes don't lie. His defense for the most part gives up too many big plays week in and week out.

Tell me, are you confident they will get a stop on 3rd down, regardless of the yardage. I'm not.

Last week 3rd and 18. I said to my kids. I don't feel confident that they will get a stop here......they didn't


I would like to see them be better on 3rd downs as well. But I am genuinely curious as to how this same DC had this defense better than any other defense in football in that regard during his 1st year here. How do we know how much of it is him and how much of it are his players? It's kind of impossible to know. Were we only good in 2010 because his players bailed him out? Have we had subpar talent since? I don't know the right answer but it's probably not that cut and dry.

As for plays where we got breaks. Eh. Every Super Bowl champion probably got a break somewhere along the line. I can sit here and say "what if this play never happened?" about every team in NFL history and their fate would have changed. That's kind of how football works. There's a luck element involved and all teams either are on the beneficial side or the unfortunate side. I don't think it's fair to dismiss how well this defense played against a 15-1 Packer team with the best offense in football that year just because we caught a break in Dallas.
Greg, I think it all comes down to the 3rd down conversions....  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 11:47 am : link
There have been WAY too many third and longs converted over the past two games. Way too many sustained drives. Way to many busted and broken plays for big gains.

It's frustrating.

Right before halftime, after the Giants scored to come within 3, with 30 seconds left the Cardinals nearly went right down the field. In thirty f-cking seconds. Were not scared that they were going to score? Because I sure as hell was.

30 seconds before halftime, that's bad.
Greg  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/16/2014 11:47 am : link
c'mon, we knew the defense had to carry this team early and they haven't.

They've been atrocious on third down....especially third and long.

No forced turnovers? Long drives.

The Giants had the ball three times in the first half on Sunday because the defense couldn't get off of the field.

What I find interesting is Coughlin is getting publicly frustrated with it ("no idea why Damontre Moore didn't play more", "why are we worse at giving up third-and-longs?")
It's tough to give the D anything more than an incomplete  
jcn56 : 9/16/2014 11:47 am : link
Mostly because of the turnovers and the field position shitfest that they're handed.
Is this the last year on Perry's contract?  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/16/2014 11:48 am : link
Legit question, I really don't know and we all thought last season was the last year on his contract.
But, again....  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2014 11:48 am : link
Regardless of how many third and longs they allowed to be converted, this game was still lost primarily by abominable special teams and offensive miscues (the Jennings fumble, the first interception, the numerous drops).
again, I'm not saying they've played well  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2014 11:50 am : link
But they've been the least bad of the three. Yet Fewell and the defense are getting singled out. It you want to rip everyone, I get that, but I don't know why you'd hammer Fewell and not have much to say about Quinn (jesus, how the hell does he still have a job???) or McAdoo.
They got carved up in the air by Drew Stanton  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 11:56 am : link
who was making his first start in four years, with a West Coast team that travelled across the US on a short week to play an early game.

Why are we defending the defense again?
Also, singled out?  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 11:58 am : link
Hardly. The offense and special teams have been ripped repeatedly here.
Unless you mean on this thread...  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 11:58 am : link
then yeah, they are getting singled out.
And what would comparing stats from every other team accomplish?  
vibe4giants : 9/16/2014 11:59 am : link
The Giants are their own team with their own players, system and issues? Why would knowing how much The Raiders blitz or how often the Bucs play Cover 2 prove anything about the Giants?
Perry Fool is the third flop that TC has hired as Def Co.  
Victor in CT : 9/16/2014 11:59 am : link
And his 1st Off Co John Hufnagel was a flop too. I for the life of me can't figure out why TC has so much trouble in this area. For a guy who is so organized and thorough it astounds me that he could have such a spotty track record in hiring assistants.
because the score was 14-13  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2014 11:59 am : link
And then Cruz blew an easy catch that would have gone for big yardage on 3rd down, and then the special teams imploded. And the offense couldn't score again on an injury-riddled Cardinals defense.

Criticize the defense, fine, but they weren't the biggest culprit on Sunday.
Britt  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2014 12:00 pm : link
By singled out, I'm talking about the fact that Coughlin's got much more to say about the defense than his old pal Quinn's horrific special teams.
RE: because the score was 14-13  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 12:00 pm : link
In comment 11866191 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
And then Cruz blew an easy catch that would have gone for big yardage on 3rd down, and then the special teams imploded. And the offense couldn't score again on an injury-riddled Cardinals defense.

Criticize the defense, fine, but they weren't the biggest culprit on Sunday.


They were/are one third of the problem.
I don't give a crap about  
Doomster : 9/16/2014 12:00 pm : link
how they rank, yardage wise, 3rd down wise, or points wise.....It all comes down to performance in crunch time......

Does anyone think, outside of one 6 game stretch in 2011, that a Perry Fewell defense can hold a fourth quarter lead for the offense, consistently?

RE: Britt  
vibe4giants : 9/16/2014 12:03 pm : link
In comment 11866193 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
By singled out, I'm talking about the fact that Coughlin's got much more to say about the defense than his old pal Quinn's horrific special teams.


The Quinn thing is pretty much inexplicable at this point. This has been going on for years.
I hate Tom Quinn.  
BrettNYG10 : 9/16/2014 12:06 pm : link
.
Carved up in the air?  
arcarsenal : 9/16/2014 12:07 pm : link
Drew Stanton threw for 167 freaking yards and 0 TD's.

If that's "carved up", every D in football got torched this week.
Stats don't mean much to me.  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 12:10 pm : link
I saw him completeting passes to wide open recievers quite often.
Doesn't look like much on the stat line...  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 12:11 pm : link
but it sure looked effective on Sunday to my eyes.
Stats don't mean much to you...  
arcarsenal : 9/16/2014 12:12 pm : link
...but just a few days ago you were posting screen shots of Eli and Elway's stats to prove your points about Eli.

Got it. So they matter when they're convenient. Don't matter when they conflict.
I meant in this particular instance, as I clarified...  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 12:13 pm : link
in my next post.

His stat line didn't look like much, but watching he sure looked more than effective on Sunday.

Why are you trying to deflect from the topic?

In your opinion, the defense is good?
Through 2 games...  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 12:14 pm : link
Opponents are converting 53.6% of third downs.

Nothing to see here?
The guy absolutely LOVES playing zone defense  
Chris L. : 9/16/2014 12:15 pm : link
in a league where all the good defenses play physical man to man. That's all you need to know. What's even more disturbing about this is that we went out and spent big money on cover corners to allow us to play man to man.
Need to get that Giants Youtube channel  
ghost718 : 9/16/2014 12:16 pm : link
to compile a video of Perry's Greatest Brainteasers

That would settle a lot of these debates
As Eric said...  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 12:16 pm : link
This defense was supposed to help carry us while we got our shit straight on offense.

They were supposed to be the strength of our team. They are just flat out not getting it done.
arc, I know you've attached your wagon...  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 12:18 pm : link
to the Perry Fewell horse over the years, but damn man...

I can't believe you are defending the defensive performance right now.

You're better than that.
But.....they kind of got it done Sunday  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2014 12:19 pm : link
Again, the Giants held the lead until the Tom Quinn Fiasco lurched into action, allowing 9 points in about a minute.

Now, maybe the defense would have given up the lead anyway, but we'll never know that.
This whole team is shit right now...  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 12:19 pm : link
the defense included. Nobody is immune.
This is year five in this defense.  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 12:20 pm : link
They are supposed to be well oiled machine at this point, yet they still have communication issues. Why?

Are our players dumber than the average NFL defender, or could there be other reasons?
In my opinion, we've played 2 football games.  
arcarsenal : 9/16/2014 12:21 pm : link
And the defense on Sunday was the last of the 3 phases that should be getting blame for the loss. And yet, we have 20 threads on how terrible Perry Fewell is.

We went from having a 1 point lead and starting to drive down the field to a botched 3rd down conversion, a PR TD and a fumble on a KR.. so the defense, without even setting foot on the field, saw us lose the lead and then had to take the field deep in our own territory where they did the best they could by limiting the Cards to a 3 and out and a FG.

Down 8, the offense drove down the field.. and fumbled away our last chance.

I have no idea what we're blaming the defense for. They gave up more 3rd down conversions than they'd have liked. They also hit Stanton 10 times and sacked him 4 times. He completed less than 50% of his passes. He didn't throw a TD pass, his completions were 4.3 yards per. We blitzed often when we could and then we lost our slot CB and MLB and had to get a little more conservative.

Fewell's defenses have ALWAYS forced turnovers here. The turnovers will come. We are not going to win football games in this league scoring 14 points. We just aren't.
what arc just said  
Greg from LI : 9/16/2014 12:22 pm : link
It's not that the defense has played particularly well, it's that the defense seems to be the focus of most people's anger when the offense and special teams have been demonstrably worse.
It depends on which Fewell we're getting  
sjnyfan : 9/16/2014 12:23 pm : link
Usually we have to wait until late in the season for the defense to be "simplified" but this year it seems like it took 5 quarters.

Coughlin's comments caught me off guard at his postgame press conference, but I noticed going into the 2nd quarter it seemed like we started playing a lot more man coverage. So after the game I checked the play by play. The defense was 5-13 on 3rd down or 38% which isn't bad. However three came in the first quarter. Only one in the 2nd quarter and one in the 3rd which was a 3rd and 1.

Over 40% of the Cardinals' offensive yards was in the 1st quarter as well. I'm not on the sideline but something tells me that Coughlin had enough of the soft, cutesy, zone stuff at that moment (which doesn't benefit our CBs especially) and maybe from this point forward we'll get some straight up man coverage. I think it will at least benefit the DLine and the DBs (the LBs though...).

I'm not a fan of Fewell but if we get majority man coverage the rest of the way it will benefit the defense a lot more than the rest of his nonsense. One way or the other, the defense was the least of what hurt us on Sunday, especially after the first quarter.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 9/16/2014 12:25 pm : link
"In my opinion, we've played 2 football games."

Taking a real fucking stand there.
RE: what arc just said  
Britt in VA : 9/16/2014 12:26 pm : link
In comment 11866237 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It's not that the defense has played particularly well, it's that the defense seems to be the focus of most people's anger when the offense and special teams have been demonstrably worse.


I don't think your perception is reality ie: the defense getting a disproportionate dose of blame on here.

There is plenty to go around, and has been, for all three phases.
Listen to the Players  
okayrene : 9/16/2014 12:27 pm : link
They keep saying that Perry's gameplan accounted for everything they saw on Sunday.

They were in the right spots. Prince specifically mentioned bad execution—like the long run he gave up where he lost outside leverage or the costly penalties—of the players not holding up their end.
You guys who keep calling for aggressive man coverage...  
arcarsenal : 9/16/2014 12:29 pm : link
...don't seem to understand that when we lose Jon Beason and Kennard is already out, it means a guy like Mark Herzlich is going to get caught covering a speed back or get mismatched with a TE 1 on 1. Do you really want that? Do you want Stevie Brown to be responsible for the entire middle of the field?

We really don't have linebackers who cover well. Fewell doesn't just play zone because he doesn't know what he's doing. I'm sure he would LOVE to man up on most downs but there are guys on this defense that you do not want playing man coverage. For some reason people aren't quite grasping that.
RE: And what would comparing stats from every other team accomplish?  
Jerry in DC : 9/16/2014 12:50 pm : link
In comment 11866189 vibe4giants said:
Quote:
The Giants are their own team with their own players, system and issues? Why would knowing how much The Raiders blitz or how often the Bucs play Cover 2 prove anything about the Giants?


Comparisons are a big part of analysis and statistics. We know that every team in the NFL, including the Giants, blitzes sometimes. People are trying to make the case that the Giants don't blitz enough.

The first step is to understand how often they blitz. We haven't gotten there yet. But lets say that we find out it's 29%. So we have that piece of information which is interesting, but not particularly meaningful without context. Is that the least in the league? The most? Average? The case that the Giants don't blitz "enough" becomes easier to make it they have a low blitz rate compared to other teams. Or tougher to make if they have one of the higher blitz rates.

We can get that information through comparisons. For many stats, we've internalized the comparisons, so we don't need to do it explicitly. We know 5,000 passing yards is a lot, 30 PPG in the NBA, 50 goals in the NHL. We know they're good because they're higher than everyone else. Most of us don't have that information internalized about blitz percentage because it's not a commonly used stat.

These just seem like really basic facts that someone would want to know if they were trying to make a serious argument.
All this talk about how we weren't as bad  
chuckydee9 : 9/16/2014 12:51 pm : link
on defense last week against Arizona, remember we were facing a backup QB. Had we faced a slightly above average QB we would have seen what we saw in the 1st game... Its been a long time now and other than a 6 game stretch, the defense hasn't held up... they've managed to look decent, like last year we were ranked 8th in yards but really we weren't any good... not what we expect of the giants at least.... This isn't about the 2 games so far this season.. its a trend we've seen for a long time... with a lot of different players...
RE: RE: And what would comparing stats from every other team accomplish?  
vibe4giants : 9/16/2014 1:09 pm : link
In comment 11866305 Jerry in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 11866189 vibe4giants said:


Quote:


The Giants are their own team with their own players, system and issues? Why would knowing how much The Raiders blitz or how often the Bucs play Cover 2 prove anything about the Giants?



Comparisons are a big part of analysis and statistics. We know that every team in the NFL, including the Giants, blitzes sometimes. People are trying to make the case that the Giants don't blitz enough.

The first step is to understand how often they blitz. We haven't gotten there yet. But lets say that we find out it's 29%. So we have that piece of information which is interesting, but not particularly meaningful without context. Is that the least in the league? The most? Average? The case that the Giants don't blitz "enough" becomes easier to make it they have a low blitz rate compared to other teams. Or tougher to make if they have one of the higher blitz rates.

We can get that information through comparisons. For many stats, we've internalized the comparisons, so we don't need to do it explicitly. We know 5,000 passing yards is a lot, 30 PPG in the NBA, 50 goals in the NHL. We know they're good because they're higher than everyone else. Most of us don't have that information internalized about blitz percentage because it's not a commonly used stat.

These just seem like really basic facts that someone would want to know if they were trying to make a serious argument.


'Enough' is different for every team. And what you're doing by establishing the benchmarks for top QBS (yardage wise) or scoring average in the NBA, or top goal scorers in the NHL…that's all that is. The numbers at the top. They don't say anything about what individual teams need to be successful. Which depends entirely upon the goals, talent and philosophy of the individual teams.

So, again, don't care how often every other teams blitzes. It has nothing to do with the Giants defense. All you need to look at to judge the New Giants defense is the New York Giants defense. Basic fact.
IMHO ...  
Beer Man : 9/16/2014 2:18 pm : link
He has underwhelmed since he took over as DC (and I had high hopes for him when he first came). After last year, I was really hoping they would dump him and bring Spags back.
Yep..  
arcarsenal : 9/16/2014 2:36 pm : link
The great "Spags" is so sought after that he's been moved to secondary coach in Baltimore these days. Amazing how this awesome DC is just sitting out there but no one wants him to coordinate their defense after being fired for the atrocious job he did in New Orleans.
RE: IMHO ...  
BigBlueinChicago : 9/16/2014 2:42 pm : link
In comment 11866487 Beer Man said:
Quote:
He has underwhelmed since he took over as DC (and I had high hopes for him when he first came). After last year, I was really hoping they would dump him and bring Spags back.


Spags has been fired from one head coaching job and was fired as defensive coordinator in his next job as the players had a mutiny against him.

His time has come and gone. Spags is barely holding on to an NFL job at this point.
power hungry  
area junc : 9/16/2014 4:32 pm : link
spags never should've taken that st. louis job. the peter principle at its finest.

he was in a great situation here: respected Defensive Coordinator of the New York Football Giants. With an offer from Mara to be one of the highest paid coordinators in the league. he could've still been the DC here if he had just stayed in the right situation
Arc,  
prdave73 : 9/16/2014 4:55 pm : link
even when this defense was fully healthy and at top shape, they where still not getting done.. I don't get how some people can stand by this defense??

Britt said it best, "Drew Stanton, fuckin Drew Stanton carved up this new and improved Defense!" Well not exactly like that, but really?? That's about as sad as it gets people.. This is a defense with an improved secondary??

Another good point by Britt which I've been thinking about also was, "This is year five in this defense"
This is not a new defensive scheme?! Why does it look like one each year??!! There is no excuse that can be made for that, none! Fewell should have this defense by now running like a fine tune engine. Sure theres going to be mistakes here and there, but come on constantly? And can anyone really say here they feel confident about Fewell's defense on 3rd down situations?? No, and it's not just this year..
Spagnuolo moved to secondary coach  
ghost718 : 9/16/2014 5:00 pm : link
Because the next step up is defensive coordinator,which is what happened to the previous guy.Who now holds that position for the Lions.

Bill Cowher is another one who was a secondary coach prior to becoming defensive coordinator.

You guys are something else.Spagnuolo hit his head down in St Louis,and now he forgot how to coach.
Simple answer  
JPinstripes : 9/16/2014 5:14 pm : link
No, PF has not consistently gotten the job done, nor has he got the most out of his individual player talents in his tenure with NYG.

I am willing to bet anyone that this will be his last year in the NYG organization.

TC and Quinn will go also. This team will turnover a lot - again. The Giants will not win more than 7 games which is playing 500 football the rest of the way. Reality check to the fan boy club.
Players must maintain  
crick78 : 9/16/2014 8:41 pm : link
discipline while doing their assignments before we can go after the DC. Way too many "player mistakes" happening. Coaches shouldn't have to remind defensive players in the NFL to keep their edge.
RE: Arc,  
arcarsenal : 9/16/2014 10:27 pm : link
In comment 11866820 prdave73 said:
Quote:
even when this defense was fully healthy and at top shape, they where still not getting done.. I don't get how some people can stand by this defense??

Britt said it best, "Drew Stanton, fuckin Drew Stanton carved up this new and improved Defense!" Well not exactly like that, but really?? That's about as sad as it gets people.. This is a defense with an improved secondary??

Another good point by Britt which I've been thinking about also was, "This is year five in this defense"
This is not a new defensive scheme?! Why does it look like one each year??!! There is no excuse that can be made for that, none! Fewell should have this defense by now running like a fine tune engine. Sure theres going to be mistakes here and there, but come on constantly? And can anyone really say here they feel confident about Fewell's defense on 3rd down situations?? No, and it's not just this year..


Even when this defense was healthy and in tip top shape, they still were not getting it done?

You must have missed the Super Bowl run in 2012. No idea what you were paying attention to but this defense was healthy then and they sure as hell got the job done.

People will just make up anything to make themselves feel like they have a point.

And here we go again with "Drew Stanton carved us up"

He did, huh? That's what you call it when a guy completes less than half his passes, averages about 4.5 yards per completion, throws 0 TD passes and throws for 167 yards total?

You guys are great. What's the point of even having this argument if that constitutes as "carving up" a defense? By your standards, every NFL defense got carved up this week. Every one.
I'd also like to know when, besides that time we, you know..  
arcarsenal : 9/16/2014 10:28 pm : link
...won the Super Bowl... our defense was "fully healthy" and "not getting the job done"

Fewell one of those guys  
kepler20 : 9/16/2014 10:30 pm : link
Who might just be a better HC than he is DC.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 9/17/2014 6:27 am : link
The defense hasn't been good, but it's not the reason we're 0-2. But it was supposed to be the strength of this team so it's disconcerting that they're struggling so much.

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