Kurt Warner and Eli...

To be a mentor to Eli

what not to do...

What a shit year that was...

he'll still be holding on to the ball.

Didn't he? Granted we beat their ass in the regular season that year but... Give him credit for taking out the Eagles who got the best of us.

of the Newlywed Game for NFLN. That's really all I recall about their interaction.

I found a NYT article from back in the day, but was unable to locate the video itself.

Ten years ago, sheez.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/25/sports/football/25giants.html?pagewanted=print&position=&_r=0

when surrounded with Hall of Fame caliber players.

to go get his shine box. Warner has been an uber-douche to Eli and the Giants since Eli took his job.

Because he didn't care much for being replaced by him mid-season.

Warner was kind of a dick to Eli. I don't think Warner liked Eli at all. And I certainly don't remember any "mentoring". But I don't have any sources that I can cite.

Either way, I don't think Warner belongs in the HOF. Solid player a winner to be sure. But, not HOF if you ask me.

i like how he came from nothing, no pedigree, and ran one of the best offenses in the history of the NFL. love the hard work, practice, paying your dues in the arena league... great american underdog story.

He would stay late signing autographs. Ike Hilliard was good with the fans as well. Strahan, not so much.

he was a blast to watch. Just an incredible pure passer. Some people speak of his postseason accomplishments like he's Joe Montana, which is tough to take - he threw back-breaking INTs in each of his Super Bowl losses. Ultimately I think he's a HOFer though.

As for his Giants days, it was like a one-night stand. Meant nothing. I wish the Giants would've just started Eli from the get-go. Did that nine-game apprenticeship really have any relevance? A waste of time.

Warner is a lock to get into the HOF. Absolute lock. He put up fantastic stats outside of his athletic prime and helped usher in a new era in the NFL. He will literally never be forgotten.

In comment 11867270 bceagle05 said:

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he was a blast to watch. Just an incredible pure passer. Some people speak of his postseason accomplishments like he's Joe Montana, which is tough to take - he threw back-breaking INTs in each of his Super Bowl losses. Ultimately I think he's a HOFer though. As for his Giants days, it was like a one-night stand. Meant nothing. I wish the Giants would've just started Eli from the get-go. Did that nine-game apprenticeship really have any relevance? A waste of time.

The funny thing about the Eli/Warner relationship is that Warner is the one who always gave off the impression that it was icy. Can't blame him because he could still play, and he knew that Eli was nipping at his heels and that it could be literally any moment that Warner would lose his job, which eventually is what happened.

Warner is also 1 crazy fantastic play away from being a 2 time superbowl winner, just ask Antrel when he narrates the Big Rape's endzone pass.

I wanted Fitzgerald to get a ring more than anyone. What a postseason that was for him.

Good article linked below that makes the case *for* getting into the HOF. But this line here says it all for me: "Warner played in one game with precipitation in his career. He lost 47-7 in New England in 2008, completing 6-of-18 passes for 30 yards."


Football Outsiders on Warner to HOF... - ( New Window )

In comment 11867340 trueblueinpw said:

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Good article linked below that makes the case *for* getting into the HOF. But this line here says it all for me: "Warner played in one game with precipitation in his career. He lost 47-7 in New England in 2008, completing 6-of-18 passes for 30 yards." Football Outsiders on Warner to HOF... - ( New Window )

Warner played outside of his athletic prime and put up statistics that transcended his position.

There is no debate whether he gets into the HOF or not. The fact that he led the Cards to the superbowl should crystallize any doubts anyone else had. He's getting in, and if the writers get their way, he'll be on the first ballot.

sorry, but on what planet is Kurt Warner a hall of fame quarterback?

Hall of very, very good.

I can see Warner getting in, but he's hardly a lock. I don't see him as a first ballot inductee, but after Sapp got in before Stra, well, who the fuck knows what the criteria is for "first ballot" status.

If Warner doesn't get in next year, (and by the way, I don't think the votes are cast yet, so, again, there might still be time for at least a debate), his chances diminish with each passing year. Favre is a no debate first ballot HOF QB. And yeah, you can get your tickets to see him in Canton in 2016.

I always thought Brett Favre overrated.

Kurt Warner took two garbage franchises to the Superbowl. Both franchises were garbage for years before he arrived, transformed immediately, and were garbage immediately after he left. He's a Hall of Famer without question.

but Warner was benched for a stretch while he was with the Rams in favor of Marc Bulger.

I don't think it's a slam dunk as much as you think.

that people on BBI would "remember" Warner mentoring Eli is pretty comical. Do you guys have spy cams set up all over the Giants practice facilities?

In comment 11867378 trueblueinpw said:

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I can see Warner getting in, but he's hardly a lock. I don't see him as a first ballot inductee, but after Sapp got in before Stra, well, who the fuck knows what the criteria is for "first ballot" status. If Warner doesn't get in next year, (and by the way, I don't think the votes are cast yet, so, again, there might still be time for at least a debate), his chances diminish with each passing year. Favre is a no debate first ballot HOF QB. And yeah, you can get your tickets to see him in Canton in 2016.

Sapp was a pass rush DT who played against double teams his entire career. His ply was dominant and commanding double teams makes your teammates better. So yeah, in my book Sapp had more impact as a player at their respective positions.

Warner is getting in because he transformed offense in the NFL. He's a 2x MVP with a ring and 3 appearances. His stats transcend his time as a player. He's getting in and you're stupid if you think he's not worthy.

In comment 11867405 Jerry in DC said:

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that people on BBI would "remember" Warner mentoring Eli is pretty comical. Do you guys have spy cams set up all over the Giants practice facilities?

No. Because people are waking up to the idea that eli hasn't done enough to get in, and they are wondering what exactly is the measuring stick for having done enough to get in.

does Warner mentoring (or not mentoring) Eli have to do with either of them getting into the Hall of Fame? Are they going in a mentoring duo?

In comment 11867410 Jerry in DC said:

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does Warner mentoring (or not mentoring) Eli have to do with either of them getting into the Hall of Fame? Are they going in a mentoring duo?

Tinfoil hat says that warner is a HOF qb, and when he gets asked about whether eli is one, he will undoubtedly say no.

Pretty sure Warner could have been a great help to Eli in that first year, while still wanting to be the starter.


Warner was a great player, even with the dyke wife.

The thread kind of got millered regarding whether or not Warner should be in the HOF.

OP was because some jackwade on NFL Network said something to the effect, "yeah, Warner blew for all those middle career years, but he mentored Eli Manning in NY". I don't remember any such thing so I came to the minds of BBI and posed the issue. As far as I know, the segment is looping on NFLN now so maybe someone can get the exact transcript, because this is clearly important. I nominate kepler because he's really smart.

Yeah, it was Kurt Warner mentoring ELi, not his excellent QB of a father, his all-time great brother, or his fantastic college coach in Cutcliffe. But Warner, who was in the midst of a few-season stretch of poor QB play, was Eli's mentor. Right.

Kurt Warner had the most baffling career I have ever seen. He came out of nowhere, had a few year stretch where he put up video game numbers (didn't hurt to playi in a dome with Faulk, Bruce, and Holt, though I can't remember their Oline quality). Then he was terrible in St. Louis, was benched for Bulger, ushered out. Came to the Giants, got sacked every other drop back because he held the ball too long, and then went to the great conditions in Arizona where he and Larry Fitz tore it up and took them to the SUper Bowl.

He did some amazing things, but that trivia that he only played in one game with precipitation is wild. He always seemed to me to be a guy who was great when he had all the time in the world in ideal conditions to pick apart defenses.

Kurt or Eli.

The FO article I linked is worth a gander - except for kepler who's too smart to read that kind of stuff. Here's another gem:

"Warner was 0-42 when trailing by at least six points in the fourth quarter, including 0-23 when he had possession in a one-score game. That's just unfathomable for someone who quarterbacked four different 400-point teams."

The guy has some unreal numbers for fumbling too. Look, the dyke wife seals it for me - he's out - but I'm happy to let the debate rage on here.

In comment 11867422 trueblueinpw said:

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The FO article I linked is worth a gander - except for kepler who's too smart to read that kind of stuff. Here's another gem: "Warner was 0-42 when trailing by at least six points in the fourth quarter, including 0-23 when he had possession in a one-score game. That's just unfathomable for someone who quarterbacked four different 400-point teams." The guy has some unreal numbers for fumbling too. Look, the dyke wife seals it for me - he's out - but I'm happy to let the debate rage on here.

You're a scumbag for talking about his wife in that manner, and people think I'm a troll here?

In comment 11867422 trueblueinpw said:

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The FO article I linked is worth a gander - except for kepler who's too smart to read that kind of stuff. Here's another gem: "Warner was 0-42 when trailing by at least six points in the fourth quarter, including 0-23 when he had possession in a one-score game. That's just unfathomable for someone who quarterbacked four different 400-point teams." The guy has some unreal numbers for fumbling too. Look, the dyke wife seals it for me - he's out - but I'm happy to let the debate rage on here.

Yeah, it's not like Eli ever fumbles the ball away, right?

You do realize that Eli will likely finish his career in the top 10 of a number of passing categories, plus have at least 2 rings and 2 SB MVP trophies. He has a good shot at the HOF and is probably one of those guys who will be remembered more fondly in retirement than how he is thought of now.

He thought the job was his. I also remember thinking that Eli looked better than Warner in preseason that year.

Good line by shepardsam:

When Warner gets inducted, you watch,
shepherdsam : 9/16/2014 9:24 pm : link : reply
he'll still be holding on to the ball.

he will definitely get into the HOF with 3 SB appearances including getting the Cardinals into one. And some his regular season stats are outstanding, he's in.

which is why I don't get why he is so hard on some of his peers. He came in off the bench in St. Louis and put up amazing numbers, losing his starting job to Bulger and eventually gets cut. He then comes in as a place holder in NY and is gone after a year. He then goes to AZ and eventually gets them to the SB, but even his time in AZ was not all roses and parades. They were constantly looking to get rid of him there until his SB year.

think that when Warner was here, he was suffering from post concussion syndrome. That time on the bench here and the following offseason allowed him to recover enough to salvage the end of his career.

In comment 11867634 dorgan said:

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think that when Warner was here, he was suffering from post concussion syndrome. That time on the bench here and the following offseason allowed him to recover enough to salvage the end of his career.

That would make sense because he looked like a totally different player in Arizona than he did on the Giants.

In comment 11867634 dorgan said:

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think that when Warner was here, he was suffering from post concussion syndrome. That time on the bench here and the following offseason allowed him to recover enough to salvage the end of his career.

Probably. But he also was still recovering from that hand injury. Could not grip all that well

To the perception of eli. So I say this as objectively as possible.

I dont think kurt warner likes eli. I think he never misses a chance to take a shot at him, even if he has a way of dulling it so that it doesnt come off as bashing. I think its fairly obvious. I noticed this when he was here, when he left, and more than ever in his role as a media talking head

but TC has always said that he approached Warner to put him back in after Eli struggled so much, but Warner talked him out of it. So I'm not sure I believe that Warner was a douche to Eli.

And yes, Eli had other, more impactful mentors in his own family, but they weren't on the sidelines when Eli was struggling. I recall many instances where Warner sat with Eli after a bad series.

As for the HOF, Warner is the very definition of borderline. Sorry Kepler, but he's far from the lock you think he is. I think he gets in eventually, but it will be on a down-the-line ballot.

And please, took a garbage franchise to the SB? You can make that argument for the Cards (although their defense was pretty damn good, as were their WR's), but the Rams? That team was loaded, and should have won more than one. I put more blame on Mike Martz than anyone else, but Warner's fumbling and poor performances in close games were a close second.

In comment 11867680 MarshallOnMontana said:

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To the perception of eli. So I say this as objectively as possible. I dont think kurt warner likes eli. I think he never misses a chance to take a shot at him, even if he has a way of dulling it so that it doesnt come off as bashing. I think its fairly obvious. I noticed this when he was here, when he left, and more than ever in his role as a media talking head

That was/is my feel as well..

In comment 11867680 MarshallOnMontana said:

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To the perception of eli. So I say this as objectively as possible. I dont think kurt warner likes eli. I think he never misses a chance to take a shot at him, even if he has a way of dulling it so that it doesnt come off as bashing. I think its fairly obvious. I noticed this when he was here, when he left, and more than ever in his role as a media talking head

I agree, but I'm probably labeled an "apologist" so I dont have the street cred you do to say that.

As mentioned they had a damn good defense. They also had future HOF Fitzgerald on one side with Bolden in his prime at the other.

and noticed this too. The question is why? Did he feel slighted that he lost his job? The fool had 39 sacks in 9 games. 39!!! I think that Arizona game was the last straw where he got sacked 6 freaking times.

Coughlin thought the team was better than that and replaced Warner with Eli. The team went 1-6 the rest of the way. Clearly Warner failed to mentor Eli.

say about Eli so my take was always that he didn't like the inevitable replacement when it happened.

I'd really have to see who is on each ballot. He had a strange career. He had a 3 great years that were easily HOF seasons but then he just fell off for a number of years and re-emerged for 2 great seasons with the Cards. He's not a slam dunk but I think he goes in.

In comment 11867453 Matt M. said:

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You do realize that Eli will likely finish his career in the top 10 of a number of passing categories, plus have at least 2 rings and 2 SB MVP trophies. He has a good shot at the HOF and is probably one of those guys who will be remembered more fondly in retirement than how he is thought of now.

Him cherry picking where he went to in the draft will hurt him tremendously

he has never been a mvp

he was never considered a top5 qb in any year that he's played in

despite his iconic throws, people will always point to the defense in both superbowl games- and there are arguments to be made that Tuck was the real MVP both times around

he has an inordinate amount of turnovers



I'm not saying he's not a HOF qb. I'm telling you that when it is time to debate whether he gets in, there will be writers and voters who will have predetermined and will vehemently object to his resume as being worthy.

No denying that Warner had some good - and great - seasons. And Warner won a SB. No taking that away from Warner. And his is a great story. But let's not get carried away with the story and ignore the talent Warner had around him. Faulk is among the best ever at the RB position. Pace was an all time great. Isaac Bruce and Tory Holt were outstanding, if not both all time greats. Those Rams teams had some seriously clutch role players too like Rickey Phroll and Az Hakim. That Cardinals team that Warner took to the Super Bowl had a good of a defense and Fitzgerald and Boldin and Edgern James. So, its not like Warner carried a bunch of scrubs all by himself.

Warner's a nice story and a winning NFL qb. But there's a ton of all time greats at other positions that are more worthy than Warner to be in the HOF. Probably needs its own thread - but if Warner is such a slam dunk to some folks - why isn't Simms also a slam dunk? Simms came from an obscure school - he was booed as a draft pick - he struggled early in his career - he took a ton of hits playing on a laughing stock team that had become a much maligned hapless franchise - got benched - overcame it all and then he was a big part of turning it all around and he won a SB and he won a SB MVP - he led the Giants to another SB - he was 11-1 when he went down with that foot injury - and on and on....

Here's the lasting memory of Warner as a Giant.

5 turnovers total. TC didn't put Eli in to get him playing time... he honestly thought the team would be better off with Eli instead of Warner.