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NFT: Another question for dog owners - rescues primarily

pjcas18 : 9/16/2014 10:24 pm
if anyone remembers the other thread I started about the dog not eating he slowly has started eating. I do sprinkle some shredded cheese in the food, mostly he just picks that out, but the vet said leave the food down 15 minutes and then pick it up, he'll eat.

I just can't do it. So the food stays down all day and gradually he eats it.

seems like he lived first 10 months of his life foraging for food in dumpsters and just doesn't know to eat from a bowl. but he's learning.

the bigger problem is his form of "play" involves nipping or biting people.

With me I like it. it's fun, but the kids (the little one really) gets legitimately scared. he doesn't bite like a pit bull, but his tail is wagging and he's chasing kids (especially those who run) and nips at their ankles and the more the kid cries or stops he thinks it's fun and escalates it.

We had a trainer come to the house and she said he was probably raised with dogs and that's how they played. So the little kids are similar in size and he's playing and she gave us some advice on how to start changing that behavior.

two neighborhood kids went home crying though. No marks or breaking the skin (and the dog is all of 25 pounds), but it's a problem when my own 6 year old is scared of him occasionally.

the trainer thinks it's correctable and we're definitely willing to put in the work, just wondering if anyone on here had advice with a similar situation with a rescue, where maybe it was abused and there's a tiny bit of doubt in your mind this dog could snap and there could be a problem.

He doesn't do it when I'm around, he has to my wife though and even the bigger kids, but the problem is my little one and the neighbors.

we've grown attached to him (this behavior is rare) but often enough we're looking at second opinions and having a second trainer come by Friday.

thanks in advance - this place is great with dog advice.
get a muzzle  
dancing blue bear : 9/16/2014 11:21 pm : link
use it for play when around other people, and gradually reduce over time. take time to play one on one without the muzzle and correct the behavior as it occurs
I've had a couple of dogs  
Giants : 9/16/2014 11:43 pm : link
that did that. I would play with them a lot and I do mean a lot. When they nip I would stop give them a firm no. Wait a couple of seconds and start playing again. Every time they would nip I would stop again give firm no. It did not take that long and the nipping stopped. They never meant any harm it was just the way they played. They got the message. Most dogs want to please you and they want to play. Just like with a child they have to learn how to play with others.
Giants  
GMENGianni : 9/17/2014 6:51 am : link
that advice is perfect. pj, you need to get your wife and kids on board with this process as well. I understand they're young, but you need to teach them that disciplining a dog is very important. Keep working at it, the pup will stop.
Sounds like a great dog....  
rebel yell : 9/17/2014 7:27 am : link
much like children, they need firm guidelines and boundaries. Immediately stop the nipping as many have advised. It probably won't get worse, but it won't get better without training and you don't want a dog that bites (even nips). We got a 3-year-old rescue treeing walker coonhound from the shleter a few years ago who exhibited very similar actions. She has made a 180 with lots of love and firm training. She also didn't eat. Don't sweat that, the dog will figure it out and will be fine. A dog will not starve itself. Focus on the behavior and you'll have yourself a great dog in very little time!
What  
ctc in ftmyers : 9/17/2014 7:38 am : link
Giants said.

Also, quit letting the dog train you. Put the food down and pick it up after 15 minutes.

If the dog is over 6 months, I don't remember the exact age, you should have already enrolled him in a basic training class. They are put on by many organizations. I would recommend your local obedience club instead of a private, in home trainer.

Helps in the socialization process with other dogs and people as well as understanding that he must be obedient anywhere.

It's a 6/8 week once a week commitment during the week for a hour or 2 at night. You knew a dog was a commitment when you got it.

The training will be continual if you wish to have happy dog.

Magically, all your problems should disappear and you will be a happy owner with a happy dog.
Giants gave very good advise  
steve in ky : 9/17/2014 8:05 am : link
I would also include lightly tapping him on the nose with one or two fingers when saying no. All the times I have trained dogs I found it very effective to tap their nose when saying no. But don't hit the nose as it is very sensitive and would hurt the dog. Just a few light finger taps along with the no and it really will help reinforce the verbal the comand.
another trick you can use  
steve in ky : 9/17/2014 8:10 am : link
When he nips loudly say "OUCH" and then immediately stop playing and correct. It can help him to understand that his playful nips are hurting.
hate to miller  
Greg from LI : 9/17/2014 8:17 am : link
But I never understood the big deal about picking food up. When my dogs are hungry, they'll eat. Why not simply leave it out for them to eat at their leisure? I don't see the harm.
Thanks for the advice  
pjcas18 : 9/17/2014 8:27 am : link
if he wasn't a rescue, if he was just a typical puppy I'd pick the food up, but it seems like (or I imagine) he spent the first 8 months of his life foraging for food in dumpsters and trash cans, so until he gets used to the bowl I'll leave it down.

He'll go a whole day without eating a bite of food unless someone holds the bowl while he eats or puts the food in their hand and gives it to him.

I have no idea what kind of trauma he'd been through so i'm a little more sensitive than "letting the dog train me".
PJ  
ctc in ftmyers : 9/17/2014 8:52 am : link
I foster for both German shorthair pointers and English pointers.

I appreciate your empathy. Dog is looking for some purpose and leadership in it's new environment and family.

Either you set the rules or he will make his own.

It's really that simple. It's not being mean.
RE: PJ  
pjcas18 : 9/17/2014 8:54 am : link
In comment 11867614 ctc in ftmyers said:
Quote:
I foster for both German shorthair pointers and English pointers.

I appreciate your empathy. Dog is looking for some purpose and leadership in it's new environment and family.

Either you set the rules or he will make his own.

It's really that simple. It's not being mean.


That's definitely a fair point. And we do, he's in a crate at night, he has places in the house he can't go, he's getting obedience training, and he's learning.

eating is the one area, for now, until i feel like he truly trusts me (if you know what I mean) I'm going off recommendation - because that's exactly what my vet said (leave the food down for 15 min and pick up the bowl).

Once I feel like he trusts me I'll adjust.

This isn't my first dog, just my first dog as an adult.
If you're not going to follow the advice of your vet, trainer, and the  
Peter in Atlanta : 9/17/2014 8:59 am : link
people here, why ask?

You were told to pick up the food.
You were told "don't let the dog play with you differently than with the kids".

Biting is unacceptable.

Training is more for the human than for the dog.
I'm following most  
pjcas18 : 9/17/2014 9:03 am : link
of the advice.

the trainer (who used to work for the vet, and knows him well - and is on good terms with him) who came to the house for our obedience training disagreed with the vet. She watched the dog and observed his behavior and felt like he probably did have some trauma or non-standard eating habits (and is very skinny) and could use having the bowl around.

like everything else in life, I'm a grown up, I like to do research, gather as much information as possible and make a decision.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone by not doing exactly as they suggest, but at the same time I use their thoughts and advice to help me make up my mind.
RE: I'm following most  
ctc in ftmyers : 9/17/2014 9:13 am : link
In comment 11867642 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
of the advice.

the trainer (who used to work for the vet, and knows him well - and is on good terms with him) who came to the house for our obedience training disagreed with the vet. She watched the dog and observed his behavior and felt like he probably did have some trauma or non-standard eating habits (and is very skinny) and could use having the bowl around.

like everything else in life, I'm a grown up, I like to do research, gather as much information as possible and make a decision.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone by not doing exactly as they suggest, but at the same time I use their thoughts and advice to help me make up my mind.


Never thought of it that way. Just giving my 2 cents as you asked. Whether you use it or not is up to your discretion.

In the end, your going to do whats best for your situation. i have no doubt about that.
RE: another trick you can use  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/17/2014 9:15 am : link
In comment 11867530 steve in ky said:
Quote:
When he nips loudly say "OUCH" and then immediately stop playing and correct. It can help him to understand that his playful nips are hurting.


^^^THIS^^^^
RE: RE: another trick you can use  
pjcas18 : 9/17/2014 9:18 am : link
In comment 11867670 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
In comment 11867530 steve in ky said:


Quote:


When he nips loudly say "OUCH" and then immediately stop playing and correct. It can help him to understand that his playful nips are hurting.



^^^THIS^^^^

Thanks, this is all helpful too. the trainer felt he probably spent his first 8 months almost exclusively with dogs and that's how they play. the more riled up the kids get the more aggressive he gets. We're trying various things out to see what works. the ouch thing definitely did, shocked him to see that reaction.
Obedience training  
Jim in Fairfax : 9/17/2014 9:23 am : link
Important thing about obedience training: it's not about training your dog. Your dog won't learn crap in a hour a week.

It's about training YOU. So that you can then train your dog. Training only works if it's done consistently all time by the whole family. Otherwise the dog just gets confused and will misbehave constantly.
I'm definitely paying attention to a lot of this advice  
jgambrosio : 9/17/2014 9:31 am : link
I got a rescue at 6 months of age, but he's been pretty good his whole life in terms of listening, house training and biting. Now we're getting a boxer puppy in a few weeks and have to start over from scratch on everything.

Any advice on how to get the two acclimated? My rescue actually has some possessive issues... he loves his toys and won't let any other dogs play with them before the hair on his back goes up and he starts growling. Maybe he'll be better with a puppy that grows up with him, but I'd rather not risk it.
RE: Obedience training  
pjcas18 : 9/17/2014 9:32 am : link
In comment 11867693 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
Important thing about obedience training: it's not about training your dog. Your dog won't learn crap in a hour a week.

It's about training YOU. So that you can then train your dog. Training only works if it's done consistently all time by the whole family. Otherwise the dog just gets confused and will misbehave constantly.


Yes, we understand that, our whole family attends the sessions and everyone in the family has homework to do. it has made a difference in a short period of time.
Training involves everyone in the house  
Dave in PA : 9/17/2014 11:08 am : link
It can't just be you trying to set the rules and everyone else not enforcing the same exact rules
Doesn't seem like a good idea to get another dog  
schnitzie : 9/17/2014 11:18 am : link
when you have another dog who has possessiveness issues...at least not until you have a firm resolution to the possessiveness problem. You're asking for fights and setting your dogs up to fail, which is a huge no-no.
Get the Gentle Leader leash as well  
Dave in PA : 9/17/2014 11:24 am : link
Gives you optimal control of the dog and doesn't involve their neck. You can control any dog with a firm 2 finger grasp. It's been extremely useful for me.
Gentle Leader *collar*  
Dave in PA : 9/17/2014 11:25 am : link
Not leash
While our own rescue dog doesn't have the exact same issues...  
RC02XX : 9/17/2014 11:33 am : link
as your dog, we have had similar form of problem with our dog interacting with our little one (3 year old) differently from how he interacts with my wife and me.

He is completely affectionate and differs to my wife and me, but he sort of sees my daughter as his equal (maybe because of the size or because she arrived two years after he joined the family). He mainly ignores her most of the time, but when she wants to play with him, he plays a bit rough with her (he's a 25lb ball of muscle). We've fixed the problem by teaching our daughter to tell him "no" whenever he starts to get rough, and it's worked wonders. He has learned that she isn't his equal, and he has to obey her just as much as he obeys my wife and me.

As others have stated already (great advice from Giants), teach your child to be the leader of the dog instead of the other way around, and I'm sure the dog will learn (so will your child). Sounds like a good dog, so I'm sure it won't be long.

Good luck.
I'll  
Tim in Capital City : 9/17/2014 12:12 pm : link
add to the voices that used the ouch technique. Your dog learned that mouthing is okay by playing with other dogs. And not to bite when he was a puppy because other dogs would yelp and stop playing with him if he mouthed too hard. So now you need to teach him that teeth never touch people - that includes you.
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