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End NFL Tax Exemption

Some Fan : 9/17/2014 8:08 am
In fact, get rid of the tax exemption for all major league sports and religious organizations.
No tax exemption - ( New Window )
Great point! End it for all of them.  
Victor in CT : 9/17/2014 8:10 am : link
Agree completely.
Agree  
WideRight : 9/17/2014 8:10 am : link
.
I'm OK with religious organizations  
mrvax : 9/17/2014 8:12 am : link
because of their charity to the community, but pro sports having a tax exemption seems wrong, really wrong. THey are there to make money for their owners. How did this come about?
It's a 501(c)(6) as opposed to a 501(c)(3) like a church  
njm : 9/17/2014 8:27 am : link
So it's not quite the same.
This is just publicity for the congressmen.  
Mike in ramapo college : 9/17/2014 8:32 am : link
1) The National Football League Office is a tax exempt entity. The league office runs losses and wouldn't pay taxes even if the status changes. The goal of this entity is to expand exposure of the game and to promote football operations.

2) NFL Ventures is the entity that collects ticket sales, tv broadcast, advertising revenues etc. This company is a partnership and as such, the individual members (the NFL teams) absorb the tax liability.
RE: This is just publicity for the congressmen.  
Pork and Beans : 9/17/2014 8:34 am : link
In comment 11867574 Mike in ramapo college said:
Quote:
1) The National Football League Office is a tax exempt entity. The league office runs losses and wouldn't pay taxes even if the status changes. The goal of this entity is to expand exposure of the game and to promote football operations.

2) NFL Ventures is the entity that collects ticket sales, tv broadcast, advertising revenues etc. This company is a partnership and as such, the individual members (the NFL teams) absorb the tax liability.


+1, Its not as if the money made by football is not taxed.
RE: This is just publicity for the congressmen.  
Dunedin81 : 9/17/2014 8:34 am : link
In comment 11867574 Mike in ramapo college said:
Quote:
1) The National Football League Office is a tax exempt entity. The league office runs losses and wouldn't pay taxes even if the status changes. The goal of this entity is to expand exposure of the game and to promote football operations.

2) NFL Ventures is the entity that collects ticket sales, tv broadcast, advertising revenues etc. This company is a partnership and as such, the individual members (the NFL teams) absorb the tax liability.


This. It's just capitalizing on ignorance to make headlines.
I'm referring to the local tax breaks on property  
Victor in CT : 9/17/2014 8:36 am : link
the subsidies, the corporate writeoff for suites and luxury boxes etc.
RE: I'm referring to the local tax breaks on property  
Dunedin81 : 9/17/2014 8:39 am : link
In comment 11867588 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
the subsidies, the corporate writeoff for suites and luxury boxes etc.


Agreed on that score, it's borderline extortion on some of them.
How does stopping a write off for a luxury box  
Pork and Beans : 9/17/2014 8:40 am : link
affect the NFL?
I'd vote in favor  
cjd2404 : 9/17/2014 8:55 am : link
of remove all tax exempt status, even religious institutions. I believe I read somewhere, but admit I can be wrong, that if they removed it just for religious institutions for a few years The country would be out of debt in no time.

Although correcting the tax issue is something that is a way bigger deal that we shouldn't get into here.

So if nothing else I'd even vote for like a 5 or 10 year suspension of the exemptions to help the country right itself financially.
I don't  
Jerry in DC : 9/17/2014 9:05 am : link
have an opinion about whether the NFL should be tax exempt. I think it probably requires a fairly deep understanding of tax law and the financial machinations of the league. There's probably a real conversation here, but we'd need more info.

However - tying their tax-exempt status to a non-tax/financial issue is pretty terrifying and possibly unconstitutional. This is a powerful government official saying to a private group "Do X" or we're going to change the law for you and it's going to cost you millions of dollars. Now you may or may not agree with "X" in this case. But there is a 100% certainty that there are people in the government who believe things that you do not agree with. And if this is the way we're doing business now, you can be sure that those people will get in on the spoils too.

And leaving the "agreeing with the issue" idea aside, this has a lot of similarities to a shakedown. It's a "nice little league you've got there, be a shame if something happened to it," except instead of it being the mafia, it's backed by the force of law.

So what does the NFL do? Fight it? Bend to the whims of our lawmakers? Step up their "donations" to politicians?
My problem with religious organizations having tax-exempt status is...  
Bramton1 : 9/17/2014 9:09 am : link
...some of them are using their pulpit to get involved in matters they have no business being involved in. For example, it's OK for a religious leader to preach about the evils of abortion and encourage the congregation to speak to their representatives about it. But it's not OK for an religious organization to openly campaign or fundraise for a particular candidate or to say something along the lines of "God wants you to vote for Candidate A."

Those that can adhere to that, no problem with the tax exemption.
RE: I'd vote in favor  
njm : 9/17/2014 9:30 am : link
In comment 11867619 cjd2404 said:
Quote:
I believe I read somewhere, but admit I can be wrong, that if they removed it just for religious institutions for a few years The country would be out of debt


I'd love to see where you read that because a quick check of the numbers seems to indicate it's at best fantasy. Let's say the current budget deficit is $500 billion (that might be low). Assuming a 35% tax rate, that means that churches would have to take in around $1.4 trillion AFTER EXPENSES to generate that amount of tax. AND, that does not reduce the current outstanding national debt by a dime. So to reduce the national debt in 5 years we're probably talking taxable income of 4-6 TRILLION per year.

You really think that's happening?
RE: I'm referring to the local tax breaks on property  
njm : 9/17/2014 9:34 am : link
In comment 11867588 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
the subsidies, the corporate writeoff for suites and luxury boxes etc.


But aren't those breaks going to the teams, which are taxable entities? Those really have no relation to 501(c) status.
No way that figure about religious orgs is legit...  
Dunedin81 : 9/17/2014 9:39 am : link
and even if it was, that assumes that the tax changes wouldn't produce changes in giving (they would) and that there is no tension between the Establishment Clause and freedom of religion and the power to tax, which there is.
What is the difference between c3 and c6?  
Some Fan : 9/17/2014 10:00 am : link
It is probably just their purpose and other peripheral details. Neither is subject to corporate income taxes. How does the NFL lose money? Is it the massive paycheck for Roger and other executives?

I wouldn't necessarily believe the deficit point either  
Some Fan : 9/17/2014 10:02 am : link
but if I'm an atheist and it would lower my taxes, then I am all for it.
almost all tax exempt orgs wouldn't pay taxes anyway  
upstatenyg : 9/17/2014 10:18 am : link
so the deficit argument is bogus.

the nfl is a trade organization with member clubs, it is no different than any other trade org that promotes an industry.

they wouldn't pay taxes anyway, so this a publicity stunt.

however, some of the congressional leaders also want to revoke the anti-trust exemption, which is bigger issue.

note that non profit orgs don't make money and wouldn't pay taxes anyway. churches and social service groups have non profit status more for other benefits, like be able to encourage people to donate, so they can get a write off, paying discounted property tax and electric rates, etc.
A non-profit organization that paid it's commissioner  
PeterS : 9/17/2014 10:42 am : link
over $40,000,000. I wish I was so unprofitable.
Isn't saying they are a trade org  
Some Fan : 9/17/2014 11:28 am : link
so wouldn't pay taxes anyway not really addressing the question. Through that status out the window and compute profit and loss and consider unreasonable comp matters and distributions to trade members as taxable dividends, etc.
Doesn't the majority of profits  
steve in ky : 9/17/2014 11:34 am : link
filter through to the owners anyway? I mean the NFL itself is simply an entity that unites the teams as an organization. The teams are all taxed it is just that the league itself is more organizational and while yes it focuses on profits they are then dispersed to all the teams who will pay tax on the money.
I think  
Emil : 9/17/2014 11:38 am : link
this skirts the line of what constitutes a political thread. I recall this debate surfacing on BBI during the offseaon. When you actually look at the construction of the league for tax purposes, you might come away with a different opinion
Claims that the NFL is using a tax exemption to avoid paying the tax due on these revenues are simply misinformed - ( New Window )
Steve  
Emil : 9/17/2014 11:39 am : link
You are correct
Taxing religious orgs  
Deej : 9/17/2014 11:45 am : link
doesnt make any sense. They dont have profit or income. A more reasonable question is whether individuals should get deductions for making donations to religious orgs -- a question which doesnt raise the problem of having gov't too involved in the management of religious entities.

That question is really tied into the question of whether you should get write-offs for any charitable giving. There are decent arguments both ways, but I'm firmly in the camp that says we're better off with the deductions than we are without, since charitable giving would dry up and government would just have to step into that breach (probably at more cost to the taxpayer).
The individual teams make tons of money  
Mike in ramapo college : 9/17/2014 11:55 am : link
$9B or so in revenues, if I recall correctly. Noone is saying that the sport does not generate enormous profits. As I noted above about the corporate structure, the League Office is not the profit generating entity.

Goodell's salary is a different debate all together. Regardless if you think he is overpaid, by paying that salary to him, that money is getting taxed. So it is even morese counter intuitive to the discussion at hand.
RE: This is just publicity for the congressmen.  
Mike in Long Beach : 9/17/2014 12:17 pm : link
In comment 11867574 Mike in ramapo college said:
Quote:
1) The National Football League Office is a tax exempt entity. The league office runs losses and wouldn't pay taxes even if the status changes. The goal of this entity is to expand exposure of the game and to promote football operations.

2) NFL Ventures is the entity that collects ticket sales, tv broadcast, advertising revenues etc. This company is a partnership and as such, the individual members (the NFL teams) absorb the tax liability.


It's posts like this which keep me coming back to BBI. Thank you for the information.
Removing the NFL Tax Exemption  
snumber6 : 9/17/2014 12:25 pm : link
will simply have them have to hire an expensive tax attorney to have them pay no taxes anyway ...
How can you possibly tie religious organizations  
Knineteen : 9/17/2014 1:11 pm : link
with the NFL?!
Here's their tax return  
njm : 9/17/2014 1:13 pm : link
Comment as you please



Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: This is just publicity for the congressmen.  
WideRight : 9/17/2014 1:57 pm : link
In comment 11868058 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
In comment 11867574 Mike in ramapo college said:


Quote:


1) The National Football League Office is a tax exempt entity. The league office runs losses and wouldn't pay taxes even if the status changes. The goal of this entity is to expand exposure of the game and to promote football operations.

2) NFL Ventures is the entity that collects ticket sales, tv broadcast, advertising revenues etc. This company is a partnership and as such, the individual members (the NFL teams) absorb the tax liability.



It's posts like this which keep me coming back to BBI. Thank you for the information.


Excellent point, but carry the question one step further. If the NFL Office will not incur any taxes with the change in status, why would anyone oppose it? The PR from that move would be very favorable
RE: RE: RE: This is just publicity for the congressmen.  
Deej : 9/17/2014 2:45 pm : link
In comment 11868300 WideRight said:
Quote:
In comment 11868058 Mike in Long Beach said:

Excellent point, but carry the question one step further. If the NFL Office will not incur any taxes with the change in status, why would anyone oppose it? The PR from that move would be very favorable


Actually, if the NFL Office is operating at a loss, wouldnt you expect it to be restructured so that the loss could be passed thru to the profitable teams? Im not a tax guy, so maybe that's nuts.
RE: I don't  
fbdad : 9/17/2014 3:36 pm : link
In comment 11867648 Jerry in DC said:
Quote:
have an opinion about whether the NFL should be tax exempt. I think it probably requires a fairly deep understanding of tax law and the financial machinations of the league. There's probably a real conversation here, but we'd need more info.

However - tying their tax-exempt status to a non-tax/financial issue is pretty terrifying and possibly unconstitutional. This is a powerful government official saying to a private group "Do X" or we're going to change the law for you and it's going to cost you millions of dollars. Now you may or may not agree with "X" in this case. But there is a 100% certainty that there are people in the government who believe things that you do not agree with. And if this is the way we're doing business now, you can be sure that those people will get in on the spoils too.

And leaving the "agreeing with the issue" idea aside, this has a lot of similarities to a shakedown. It's a "nice little league you've got there, be a shame if something happened to it," except instead of it being the mafia, it's backed by the force of law.

So what does the NFL do? Fight it? Bend to the whims of our lawmakers? Step up their "donations" to politicians?


An intelligent, thoughful comment on the message board. Hope you don't get banned.
RE: Here's their tax return  
Mike in ramapo college : 9/17/2014 3:58 pm : link
In comment 11868182 njm said:
Quote:
Comment as you please

Link - ( New Window )


Thanks for the link. You will see that despite running a profit of $9M in the current year (a loss of $77M in prior year), they have a large accumulated deficit, which means if they were a tax paying entity they would likely have large net operating loss carryforwards (NOLs) and would still not pay taxes.

Considering they provide financing for the teams to build stadiums, I am sure there is some tax incentive...I just believe it is probably de minimis. Hard to tell without seeing the individual team tax returns.

As an aside -- I do know that every NFL team falls under the same licensing agreement, with the exception of the Dallas Cowboys. If you want to manufacture and sell Cowboys merchandise, you have to deal with Jerry directly.
well  
giantfanboy : 9/17/2014 4:23 pm : link
to discuss whether non profit status benefits the NFL or not is really a mute point

obviously there is a huge benefit for the NFL
or the NFL would not fight so hard to keep non profilt status.

so either you believe that NFL is a non profit
or it is not.

if you believe it is not really a non profit then it 's status should be revoked.

Mike does that loss into account  
Some Fan : 9/17/2014 6:16 pm : link
unreasonable comp and are distributions deducted for purposes of the deficit. If taxable, they would run things differently and have more checks on what they do.
RE: Mike does that loss into account  
Jim in Fairfax : 9/17/2014 8:21 pm : link
In comment 11868715 Some Fan said:
Quote:
unreasonable comp and are distributions deducted for purposes of the deficit. If taxable, they would run things differently and have more checks on what they do.

Actually, they would have fewer checks on what they do. As a 501(c)6 entity, they are required to publicly report their finances, salaries and such. As a private company, that would not be the case.
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