So they were talking on Mike and mike about how to get rid of domestic violence in the nfl.
Mark said it is the owners fault for drafting these guys and that they should be suspended WITH pay so owners feel it and they will no longer draft these guys.
Ok so now it's the owners fault? So they are supposed to know who is going to beat their wives or girlfriend? What about a guy like ray rice who has no prior history of it?
Just another dumb comment by a guy who works for espn. Yes let's pay the guy who did the crime to punish the owner who did nithing.
Next thing you know, the actual abusers will be looked at more favoraby than any ancillary people. It has already started to happen, especially when people are more concerned about having Goodell fired than punishing guys beating women and children.
Why is it the Owners fault? so its the Ravens fault for drafting Ray Rice? how ere they supposed to know the guy had literally 0 history of this...
How you going to Punish the owners for something the player did? it literally makes zero sense...
And in football you could see the argument to an extent, owners should be diligent in not drafting criminals, but Ray Rice had no criminal history, nor did Adrian Peterson. How diligent can you be?
This
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He is suspended with pay pending the outcome of court proceedings. Is there harm? Sure. He's not earning the next FA contract. But the notion that "once cops come on the male is the aggressor and guilty" is simply not true.
The NFL, like all professional sports, is based on fan support and not many fans, if any, want to root for a player who has been convicted of injuring another person or animal, IMO.
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LOL
I remember Rae Carruth coming out with huge character issues yet he was drafted in the first round by Carolina. Same with Randy Moss and other guys. I mean look at Manziel...does anyone really think that, at some point, this guy will not mess up.
A lot of talk now about Winston from Florida State but I guarantee you someone will draft him high. Teams and owners do need to take a large measure of responsibility here for drafting these guys.
That doesnèt excuse the individual but what do you expect when you draft such a player, give him big money and then he fucks up. Itès like buying a Pinto and then not understanding how the car blew up on you. Caveat emptor...let the buyer beware!
I didn't hear this particular segment, but I'm sure "When I was on the Broncos..." was thrown in there once or twice somewhere.
If you for example did something and got arrested should your boss get fined as well since he hired you? no
Paying the player so the owner gets some of the punishment is stupid it is not their fault if a player goes and beats his wife or girlfriend that is on the player...
No he was saying to get rid of domestic violence you need to hit the owners since it is their fault for drafting these guys...so in other words when a player does something wrong it is the owners fault because they hired them...
They way the current system works, teams are all too happy to roll the dice of low character guys.
The Ray rice situation being an outlier of a seemingly high character guy turning heel, but for most of these guys you can see trouble coming a mile away.
A compromise could be the player doesn't get paid but still counts against the cap
What history does AP have? besides his dad being in Jail for much of his life?
What history does Jonathan Dwyer have?
What history does Ray macdonald have?
So 4 cases 4 guys wtih no history and you want to punish the owners?
But isn't this already the case with the cap being impacted? I thought I heard that the Ravens will absorb Rice's cap.
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LOL. Just kidding dude.
Next thing you know, the actual abusers will be looked at more favoraby than any ancillary people. It has already started to happen, especially when people are more concerned about having Goodell fired than punishing guys beating women and children.
I disagree. People absolutely want Rice/AP/Hardy punished. But they also want change at the top as well. It's certainly not just one or the other; the whole thing from top to bottom needs an overhaul.
Argue all you want whether Decker is a #1 or a #2, but "marginal"? Really?
If you want an overhaul because you disagree with the way Goodell has handled league matters, that's a defensible argument. But anyone in the league offices who loses their job over another player's actions of breaking the law is ridiculous and unfounded.
You have to separate poor management of the league vs. criminal behavior of players.
But Goodell and co absolutely need an overhaul. The players in question will be dealt with by the law so there is nothing the NFL or the public can do there.
I'm not sure either. I just heard that the remainder of Ray Rice's contract will hit the Ravens. But who really knows.
We want due process, and need to take into account the possibility, however modest, that the baby mama is lying for whatever reason. But we want the player out of the game immediately upon the filing of a serious report. So, you suspend with pay, and let the courts do their job. Then if the courts DON'T do their job, because of a fucking idiot like the NJ prosecutor in the Riced case, the NFL needs to step in and make a finding of facts, and punish accordingly.
But they don't deserve to be absolved for acting like what they are (consciousness corporations) when it comes to the discipline. They've consistently needed the public and/or sponsors to tell them what the 'right' thing is. So I don't think it's remotely idiotic to blame the owners for creating a culture where this stuff is okay. As, clearly, that's what they've done.
Leave it to the justice system where it belongs to sort these situations out. Owners' cartels should not be banding together to impose their own punishments in the absence of collective bargaining. I doubt the union will agree to the kind of draconian measures that advocacy groups want.
If the player is ultimately found guilty, he forfeits the amount paid into escrow; if found innocent, then he is immediately paid the escrow amount.
I actually am a trainer for a pretty neat program, called MVP, out of Northeastern. It stands for Mentors in Violence Prevention and basically tries to prevent this crap by having men, especially athletes, more engaged in prevention and bystander intervention, rather than teaching women how to defend themselves. It's important to start with people early. When you're raised around it, sometimes you repeat it.
I do this stuff for a living. I know it exists. I was happier when I didn't have to hear about it in sports. These guys are mostly uneducated puds, who play a game for a living. They should be treated as such and the court should handle it (unless there is overwhelming evidence like Rice).
The only reason this is a big deal at this point is website hits and ESPN getting good ratings. THIS ISN'T NEW! I handle this stuff daily. Most of the kids I work with have or are being abused. All of these shows and the insane media frenzy is what makes these players out to be more than they really are (just athletes) and then the same outlets feign disappointment when this crap is exposed. Bleh.
As for the people talking about faulty accusations of DV and abuse, of course it happens, but in the grand scheme of things, it is pretty rare. I work with women with their teeth knocked out who only speak with their hand in front of their mouths. Or kids that need surgery for a broken eye socket or vaginal reconstruction. Those are the obvious ones. But usually, there are other ways of verifying these things. It's great that DV is getting some time in the spotlight and that people are realizing it's not just a woman's problem, just like abuse isn't just a kid's problem.
Do these same people feel that they should be held to the same standard?
If someone goes out on a Saturday night and causes a fatal car accident and is charged with vehicular manslaughter, is it right for his employer to fire that person before he is convicted?
With domestic violence and now child abuse..and likely soon it would (or maybe should) be DUI with injury and then not injury, etc..Soon we will get to a point where we have to decide which crimes are worthy of punishment by the league and which are not and that's before we get into accusations versus convictions, proper investigation, proper due process, etc.
My feeling now is that the NFL would be better off staying out if it altogether or, at most, adding to a court-determined punishment which is independent of the underlying crime (e.g. days suspension for day in jail). I understand the PR and the importance of all the underlying offenses, but IMO it's a Pandora's Box for which the NFL is ill-equipped to adjudicate.
Do these same people feel that they should be held to the same standard?
If someone goes out on a Saturday night and causes a fatal car accident and is charged with vehicular manslaughter, is it right for his employer to fire that person before he is convicted?
If he is in an at-will employment state, there's a good chance that he WILL be fired without that due process. It's the way the rest of the world works. Absent collective bargaining (and sometimes even with it) people are discharged all the time even when they haven't yet been - or sometimes never are - convicted of a crime.
Right now we have a nanny state football league advising us on guns, racism, violence, or they are overreaching into military campaigns attaching themselves to it like they have some type of contribution and association.