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Domestic violence punishment: mark schlereth is an idiot

nygiants16 : 9/18/2014 9:29 am
So they were talking on Mike and mike about how to get rid of domestic violence in the nfl.

Mark said it is the owners fault for drafting these guys and that they should be suspended WITH pay so owners feel it and they will no longer draft these guys.

Ok so now it's the owners fault? So they are supposed to know who is going to beat their wives or girlfriend? What about a guy like ray rice who has no prior history of it?

Just another dumb comment by a guy who works for espn. Yes let's pay the guy who did the crime to punish the owner who did nithing.
thats our culture now  
Joe in Knoxville : 9/18/2014 9:30 am : link
blame everyone else except the criminal
If they really want to punish players for committing these acts  
mfsd : 9/18/2014 9:31 am : link
make it a rule that if they commit such an offense, they forfeit any chance they have of receiving a pension from the NFL. That would be a good start
First it was...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/18/2014 9:36 am : link
Goodell's fault, now it is the owners.

Next thing you know, the actual abusers will be looked at more favoraby than any ancillary people. It has already started to happen, especially when people are more concerned about having Goodell fired than punishing guys beating women and children.
I like the idea  
JOMO25 : 9/18/2014 9:37 am : link
of suspension with pay but I would submit that the pay go to charity and count against the salary cap. This way, its incentive for the owners and general managers to do better with character assessments and the $ goes to charity as opposed to the scumbag who hit his wife, girlfriend or kids.
RE: I like the idea  
nygiants16 : 9/18/2014 9:40 am : link
In comment 11869199 JOMO25 said:
Quote:
of suspension with pay but I would submit that the pay go to charity and count against the salary cap. This way, its incentive for the owners and general managers to do better with character assessments and the $ goes to charity as opposed to the scumbag who hit his wife, girlfriend or kids.


Why is it the Owners fault? so its the Ravens fault for drafting Ray Rice? how ere they supposed to know the guy had literally 0 history of this...

How you going to Punish the owners for something the player did? it literally makes zero sense...
In baseball that would make sense with the PED guys...  
Dunedin81 : 9/18/2014 9:43 am : link
if you sign Nelson Cruz or Melky Cabrera knowing they just got popped for PEDs, you should feel the pain of a positive test or other drug suspension.

And in football you could see the argument to an extent, owners should be diligent in not drafting criminals, but Ray Rice had no criminal history, nor did Adrian Peterson. How diligent can you be?
the penalty is already there for an owner  
chris r : 9/18/2014 9:48 am : link
losing a player; bad PR.
RE: the penalty is already there for an owner  
RC02XX : 9/18/2014 9:55 am : link
In comment 11869219 chris r said:
Quote:
losing a player; bad PR.


This
We hardly...  
Chris in Philly : 9/18/2014 9:58 am : link
needed a new controversy to learn Mark Schlereth is an idiot.
That would be like penalizing Eric  
RB^2 : 9/18/2014 10:00 am : link
for some of our numb nut posters.

Like CiPpy.
So what happens  
MotownGIANTS : 9/18/2014 10:18 am : link
when guys get smarter and walk away (with the meal ticket and lifestyle) WITHOUT doing anything and she yells DV? Once cops come on to a DV scene the male is the aggressor and guilty. They are saying they do not have to be guilty in court to get NFL punishment. This whole thing is a mess.
That would call..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/18/2014 10:19 am : link
for a fucking eye stoving for the bitch!
RE: So what happens  
Dunedin81 : 9/18/2014 10:22 am : link
In comment 11869267 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
when guys get smarter and walk away (with the meal ticket and lifestyle) WITHOUT doing anything and she yells DV? Once cops come on to a DV scene the male is the aggressor and guilty. They are saying they do not have to be guilty in court to get NFL punishment. This whole thing is a mess.


He is suspended with pay pending the outcome of court proceedings. Is there harm? Sure. He's not earning the next FA contract. But the notion that "once cops come on the male is the aggressor and guilty" is simply not true.
All players should be required to sign an agreement  
Bobby Epps : 9/18/2014 10:25 am : link
that if they are convicted of any crime that hurts any person or animal, they are immediately discharged for cause thereby forfeiting all compensation, bonus, pension and medical benefits.

The NFL, like all professional sports, is based on fan support and not many fans, if any, want to root for a player who has been convicted of injuring another person or animal, IMO.
RE: That would be like penalizing Eric  
Chris in Philly : 9/18/2014 10:28 am : link
In comment 11869242 RB^2 said:
Quote:
for some of our numb nut posters.

Like CiPpy.


RE: RE: That would be like penalizing Eric  
Jints in Carolina : 9/18/2014 10:29 am : link
In comment 11869293 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 11869242 RB^2 said:


Quote:


for some of our numb nut posters.

Like CiPpy.





LOL
I'm not sure what you mean  
Bake54 : 9/18/2014 10:30 am : link
Did he mean it's up to the owners to discipline the players once the offense is discovered?
Actually, to a certain extent, Schlereth makes a good point...  
MikeN in Ottawa : 9/18/2014 10:30 am : link
we all know how teams will take chances on guys with character issues. They do it all the time so why are the teams so surprised then when these same players mess up.

I remember Rae Carruth coming out with huge character issues yet he was drafted in the first round by Carolina. Same with Randy Moss and other guys. I mean look at Manziel...does anyone really think that, at some point, this guy will not mess up.

A lot of talk now about Winston from Florida State but I guarantee you someone will draft him high. Teams and owners do need to take a large measure of responsibility here for drafting these guys.

That doesnèt excuse the individual but what do you expect when you draft such a player, give him big money and then he fucks up. Itès like buying a Pinto and then not understanding how the car blew up on you. Caveat emptor...let the buyer beware!
Mark Schlereth  
Exit 172 : 9/18/2014 10:32 am : link
is one of the dumbest people on sports radio and TV.

I didn't hear this particular segment, but I'm sure "When I was on the Broncos..." was thrown in there once or twice somewhere.
But again Mike  
nygiants16 : 9/18/2014 10:32 am : link
why is it the owners fault? why should they be punished for something a player on their team did?

If you for example did something and got arrested should your boss get fined as well since he hired you? no

Paying the player so the owner gets some of the punishment is stupid it is not their fault if a player goes and beats his wife or girlfriend that is on the player...

RE: I'm not sure what you mean  
nygiants16 : 9/18/2014 10:33 am : link
In comment 11869296 Bake54 said:
Quote:
Did he mean it's up to the owners to discipline the players once the offense is discovered?


No he was saying to get rid of domestic violence you need to hit the owners since it is their fault for drafting these guys...so in other words when a player does something wrong it is the owners fault because they hired them...
I do see a point to have some sort of penalty for the team  
Blue Baller : 9/18/2014 10:38 am : link
above loosing that players services

They way the current system works, teams are all too happy to roll the dice of low character guys.

The Ray rice situation being an outlier of a seemingly high character guy turning heel, but for most of these guys you can see trouble coming a mile away.

A compromise could be the player doesn't get paid but still counts against the cap



thanks nygiants16  
Bake54 : 9/18/2014 10:44 am : link
yeah I'm not agreeing with Schlereth on that one.
Ray Rice is not the only one  
nygiants16 : 9/18/2014 10:44 am : link
what history does Greg Hardy have? his draft stock fell becaus ehe got hurt in college and had a terrile combine...

What history does AP have? besides his dad being in Jail for much of his life?

What history does Jonathan Dwyer have?

What history does Ray macdonald have?

So 4 cases 4 guys wtih no history and you want to punish the owners?
RE: I do see a point to have some sort of penalty for the team  
RC02XX : 9/18/2014 10:47 am : link
In comment 11869327 Blue Baller said:
Quote:
A compromise could be the player doesn't get paid but still counts against the cap


But isn't this already the case with the cap being impacted? I thought I heard that the Ravens will absorb Rice's cap.
RC  
Blue Baller : 9/18/2014 10:50 am : link
No, suspended players do not count against the cap

At least thats what I believe  
Blue Baller : 9/18/2014 10:50 am : link
I could easily be wrong
RE: RE: That would be like penalizing Eric  
RB^2 : 9/18/2014 10:52 am : link
In comment 11869293 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
In comment 11869242 RB^2 said:


Quote:


for some of our numb nut posters.

Like CiPpy.





LOL. Just kidding dude.
RE: First it was...  
UConn4523 : 9/18/2014 10:57 am : link
In comment 11869195 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Goodell's fault, now it is the owners.

Next thing you know, the actual abusers will be looked at more favoraby than any ancillary people. It has already started to happen, especially when people are more concerned about having Goodell fired than punishing guys beating women and children.


I disagree. People absolutely want Rice/AP/Hardy punished. But they also want change at the top as well. It's certainly not just one or the other; the whole thing from top to bottom needs an overhaul.
Thank God  
Arcanum : 9/18/2014 11:00 am : link
I no longer watch tv. I'm able to avoid, a lot of bs. Outside of Giants games(which I'm close to giving up), my television, stays off.
He has also publicly described Eric Decker as a "marginal" #2 WR  
Bob in Newburgh : 9/18/2014 11:01 am : link
Evidently the talent level at the WR position is much higher than I supposed.

Argue all you want whether Decker is a #1 or a #2, but "marginal"? Really?
Uconn..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/18/2014 11:03 am : link
but why would the top need an overhaul because of this situation?

If you want an overhaul because you disagree with the way Goodell has handled league matters, that's a defensible argument. But anyone in the league offices who loses their job over another player's actions of breaking the law is ridiculous and unfounded.

You have to separate poor management of the league vs. criminal behavior of players.
i was talking about Goodell  
UConn4523 : 9/18/2014 11:14 am : link
should have made that more clear. That's what I meant from the top down. Owners don't scout and can't possible know who broke what laws by all of their prospects.

But Goodell and co absolutely need an overhaul. The players in question will be dealt with by the law so there is nothing the NFL or the public can do there.
RE: At least thats what I believe  
RC02XX : 9/18/2014 11:16 am : link
In comment 11869370 Blue Baller said:
Quote:
I could easily be wrong


I'm not sure either. I just heard that the remainder of Ray Rice's contract will hit the Ravens. But who really knows.
Suspending with pay...  
manh george : 9/18/2014 11:22 am : link
until there is a finding on the facts makes all the sense in the world. Someone on TV last night likened it to a cop involved in a shooting incident getting desk duty.

We want due process, and need to take into account the possibility, however modest, that the baby mama is lying for whatever reason. But we want the player out of the game immediately upon the filing of a serious report. So, you suspend with pay, and let the courts do their job. Then if the courts DON'T do their job, because of a fucking idiot like the NJ prosecutor in the Riced case, the NFL needs to step in and make a finding of facts, and punish accordingly.
The owners and the NFL are complicit enough.  
vibe4giants : 9/18/2014 11:23 am : link
You can let them off the hook for hiring these guys.

But they don't deserve to be absolved for acting like what they are (consciousness corporations) when it comes to the discipline. They've consistently needed the public and/or sponsors to tell them what the 'right' thing is. So I don't think it's remotely idiotic to blame the owners for creating a culture where this stuff is okay. As, clearly, that's what they've done.
*conscienceless* corporations  
vibe4giants : 9/18/2014 11:31 am : link
.
RE: So what happens  
HomerJones45 : 9/18/2014 11:45 am : link
In comment 11869267 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
when guys get smarter and walk away (with the meal ticket and lifestyle) WITHOUT doing anything and she yells DV? Once cops come on to a DV scene the male is the aggressor and guilty. They are saying they do not have to be guilty in court to get NFL punishment. This whole thing is a mess.
Yes, and anyone who thinks this doesn't go on is naive. And what happens when the cops show up and bust both sides? The player gets punished by the employer.

Leave it to the justice system where it belongs to sort these situations out. Owners' cartels should not be banding together to impose their own punishments in the absence of collective bargaining. I doubt the union will agree to the kind of draconian measures that advocacy groups want.
"Suspend with pay"  
Bobby Epps : 9/18/2014 11:51 am : link
OK but pay into an escrow account upon suspension.

If the player is ultimately found guilty, he forfeits the amount paid into escrow; if found innocent, then he is immediately paid the escrow amount.
I would Like to Know  
thevett : 9/18/2014 11:53 am : link
in how many professions if you are involved in domestic abuse that you automatically are suspended from or outright lose your job ?
The stupidity coming out of the wood work is amazing.  
JesseS : 9/18/2014 12:06 pm : link
Between stuff like this and Reggie Bush saying he is not above harshly and physically punishing a 1 years old, I'm slowly but surely losing interest in the NFL, which is something I never could have imagined would happen.

I actually am a trainer for a pretty neat program, called MVP, out of Northeastern. It stands for Mentors in Violence Prevention and basically tries to prevent this crap by having men, especially athletes, more engaged in prevention and bystander intervention, rather than teaching women how to defend themselves. It's important to start with people early. When you're raised around it, sometimes you repeat it.

I do this stuff for a living. I know it exists. I was happier when I didn't have to hear about it in sports. These guys are mostly uneducated puds, who play a game for a living. They should be treated as such and the court should handle it (unless there is overwhelming evidence like Rice).

The only reason this is a big deal at this point is website hits and ESPN getting good ratings. THIS ISN'T NEW! I handle this stuff daily. Most of the kids I work with have or are being abused. All of these shows and the insane media frenzy is what makes these players out to be more than they really are (just athletes) and then the same outlets feign disappointment when this crap is exposed. Bleh.

As for the people talking about faulty accusations of DV and abuse, of course it happens, but in the grand scheme of things, it is pretty rare. I work with women with their teeth knocked out who only speak with their hand in front of their mouths. Or kids that need surgery for a broken eye socket or vaginal reconstruction. Those are the obvious ones. But usually, there are other ways of verifying these things. It's great that DV is getting some time in the spotlight and that people are realizing it's not just a woman's problem, just like abuse isn't just a kid's problem.
if this idea were in place  
PaulBlakeTSU : 9/18/2014 12:51 pm : link
then owners would have been encouraged for drafting Ray Rice, who had a sterling reputation up until this incident.
Not supporting domestic violence BUT  
Jupiter : 9/18/2014 3:48 pm : link
why do so many people feel that players should lose their jobs and their livelihood without due process?

Do these same people feel that they should be held to the same standard?

If someone goes out on a Saturday night and causes a fatal car accident and is charged with vehicular manslaughter, is it right for his employer to fire that person before he is convicted?
There will be pressure and more scrutiny on players  
Some Fan : 9/18/2014 4:04 pm : link
that will certainly happen so his comments are not too crazy.
I've actually completely reversed my opinion  
Bill L : 9/18/2014 4:04 pm : link
on the role of the NFL in these types of issues.

With domestic violence and now child abuse..and likely soon it would (or maybe should) be DUI with injury and then not injury, etc..Soon we will get to a point where we have to decide which crimes are worthy of punishment by the league and which are not and that's before we get into accusations versus convictions, proper investigation, proper due process, etc.

My feeling now is that the NFL would be better off staying out if it altogether or, at most, adding to a court-determined punishment which is independent of the underlying crime (e.g. days suspension for day in jail). I understand the PR and the importance of all the underlying offenses, but IMO it's a Pandora's Box for which the NFL is ill-equipped to adjudicate.

RE: Not supporting domestic violence BUT  
Dunedin81 : 9/18/2014 4:05 pm : link
In comment 11870017 Jupiter said:
Quote:
why do so many people feel that players should lose their jobs and their livelihood without due process?

Do these same people feel that they should be held to the same standard?

If someone goes out on a Saturday night and causes a fatal car accident and is charged with vehicular manslaughter, is it right for his employer to fire that person before he is convicted?


If he is in an at-will employment state, there's a good chance that he WILL be fired without that due process. It's the way the rest of the world works. Absent collective bargaining (and sometimes even with it) people are discharged all the time even when they haven't yet been - or sometimes never are - convicted of a crime.
But owners won't be penalized  
Some Fan : 9/18/2014 4:07 pm : link
they will just pay much less to players who are potentially legal trouble or not sign them at all. And that makes sense.
Dunedin81  
thevett : 9/18/2014 5:07 pm : link
I have never heard or seen anyone fired from their jobs unless what they did was specifically forbidden by job contract. i know teachers who have been convicted of DUI who are still teaching. However, I know Teachers who have shown up to work having had a drink or two and are gone. If it's in their contract fire them. But if it's a PR problem with no previous as Rice, I see it as a slippery slope of the sport playing Judge, Jury an executioner. I do not condone what Rice did but i see a large can of worms being opened.
yes  
mdc1 : 9/18/2014 7:02 pm : link
big reach by government, corporations(nfl), and media into individuals lives. Only parties involved should be law enforcement, justice system, and the individual(s) involved. Only time they should be weighing in is if the individual can't do their job because they cannot show up (jail) or they just need to fire them for their own reason and take the legal risks. Right now these fuckers use peoples personal lives as an entertainment opportunity to get social points around some hyped up topic that is in the news.

Right now we have a nanny state football league advising us on guns, racism, violence, or they are overreaching into military campaigns attaching themselves to it like they have some type of contribution and association.

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