...of rock guitarists?
I was never a big Dead fan back in the day, and never really appreciated him like I did his contemporaries. I think it's because Garcia's studio work doesn't do him justice. And being an audiophile snob back in the day, listing to recordings-of-recordings of shows just didn't do it for me.
But now that basically every Dead show is available online for free, I've been listening to the Dead a lot, and IMO Garcia is just amazing. A true genius. His mixture of blues, jazz, folk and total freak-out stuff is just awesome. Plus he can play pedal steel guitar! (that's him on CSNY's "Teach Your Children Well").
He even shreds it up post 1987, contrary to some criticism. Check out "Deal" from the below linked show.
Alpine Valley Music Theatre, July 19, 1989 - (
New Window )
Technical ability & Speed 20%
Innovation 20%
Musicality 20%
Live/Jam/Improvisation 20%
Body of Original Work (as songwriter or solo composition) 20%
At least this would be a start for this kind of thing....but there's no way we would all agree on things like "musicality" or even "technical ability." But at least this would be a start to getting the dialogue going.
There are many metal guitarists and guys like Vai and Malmsteen that are so technically brilliant, but I would never listen to their music. So I would place a much higher weight for musicality (if that is even appropriate in this example) and Body Of Original work or similar.
Innovation and originality though are huge, which is why Hendrix belongs at the top, even if he is not my favorite.
Garcia is not well appreciated by a lot of snobby guitarists as they tend to go for the Beck or Trower types.
I would have a hard time ranking a lot of people, but I would put Garcia between 5-10.
Not sure what you mean by "technically" here. It is likely almost no one on that list had the versatility or musical knowledge that Garcia had. People often confuse his ability to play over simple chord progressions as lacking technical ability.
Clapton is often considered over-rated because his work is primarily blues or bluesy rock. I can assure you after having tried to play like him for 30+ years, that he still plays 3 simple notes better than I ever have.
So these things are not very obvious to discern....
But I agree with Phil, that trying to compare Garcia to say John McLaughlin or Jimmy Page or Zappa is like trying to compare apples, oranges, peaches and bananas. They're all so different and brilliant in their own way.
He has since gone on to create a genre almost all his own. Some people grow into it. The talent was always there, but like most people, he had to work for it. He just took a different path.
Clapton didn't know much early on but was a young blues player when there weren't many around crossing over into rock. He has since dedicated his live to music and learning and it shows. He was an early guitar god, but there would be thousands of more talented technical players at a young age better than him now. Many will never get a chance to become any where near as commercially successful due to lack of originality and just fate.
His solo on Blue Sky is ridiculous...mixolydian perfection...
Then Henrdix, then the rest, including...
Clapton
Haynes
Garcia
Larry Carlton
Steve Howe
Derek Trucks
Yup, real Peach Head here!
My faves:
(Classics) - Jerry, Clapton, Jimi, Page, Stevie Ray, Knopfler
(Now) - Jim James, Nels Cline, Derek Trucks, Luther Dickinson, Marc Ford, Stephen Malkmus
And do yourselves a favor and check out a 6th grader named Brandon Niiederauer. He is the next rock guitar superstar and lives in my school district.
Larry Carlton
Steve Howe
Two of my all-time favorites!
Alex Lifeson
Kenny Wayne Shepherd is in the conversation.
I always loved his playing and always mention him. Incredible taste and ability.
later in life, as I gave more things a chance I had quickly dismissed as an adolescent, I was amazed.
I'm glad I got to see the dead before Jerry died and he was a very talented musician, but even then with all the admiration I have for him I still don't consider him an all time great. I consider him sort of like Frank Zappa, a creative genius, but not necessarily a technician - maybe he was, maybe they both were, but it's not what I appreciate about either.
We're not talking about your average weekend warrior who just doesn't have it in him to shred no matter how many hours he puts into practice. A guy like Garcia, he's already got enough innate musical talent to separate himself from the pack. If his practice habits were as disciplined and fanatical as his technical superiors (which I HIGHLY doubt), who knows how he would have played?
Zappa is the only guitarist listed on this thread that could legitimately be ranked over Hendrix.
Jimi himself said that Zappa was the best improvisational guitarist he had ever heard.
Zappa introduced Jimi to the wah wah oedal
Without Zappa's "Freak Out" there is no Sgt Peppers
His influence is more far reaching than any other guitarist there was or is
His music is unconventional and incomprehensible to the masses, he was a genius, not everyone gets it
Listen to "Black Napkins", "Watermelon in Easter Hay" or the solo in "Muffin Man" and tell me the man wasn't a genius.
He plays fast and with soul, not easy to do, covers rock, jazz, blues, progressive, classical, Zappa had more range than anyone anywhere at anytime.
This ain't Keith Richards on "Sympathy for the Devil" ( not that there's anything wrong with Smoathy for the Devil but you gotta think when you listen to Zappa, he challenges you throughout his songs.
Give it some time, you'll see it eventually...
Bireli Lagrene (gypsy jazz)
Jeff Beck
McLaughlin
Jimi
Steve Morse
Herring
Page
Winter
Larry Coryell
Haynes
Duane
Alvin Lee
Guy
Charlie Hitchcock
Gilmour
Mike Stern
Roy Buchanan
SRV
Santana
Howe
Betts
Fareed Haque (Garaj Mahal)
Al Schnier (moe.)
Chuck Garvey (moe.)
Tim Palmieri (The Breakfast)
Josh Clark (Tea Leaf Green)
Part of this has do with seeing some of these guitarists much more often than I saw Jerry & Jerry gets too noodly for me at times.
If you have Spotify try out Hot Rats or Overnite Sensation.
Alex Lifeson
I was going to mention Lifeson also.
A couple other favorites of mine -
Yngvie Malmsteen
Joe Satriani
"Shut up and play yer guitar" was originally recorded in the '80's, possibly the greatest collection of guitar solos found in one spot.
Included Steve Vai and my favorite room worker, Peter Wolf...
His run of 9 albums in a row from " Just Another Band From LA" to "Zoot Allures" is phenomenal.
Gotta say "Overnite Sensation" and "Apostrophe' are my most listened to though.
"Watch out where the huskies go and don't you eat that yellow snow..."
Maybe. Most Americans only listen to main stream music. Phish is too "weird" for their tastes.
If phish is too weird, I don't have a chance...
If you are a big Jerry fan it is worth reading if you haven't already.
Jerry 1985 Frets Magazine Interview - ( New Window )
Comparing him to others is futile.
Greg that is a perfect example of why you really can't rate guitarists as many have already stated. Cantrell technically and "gymnastically" cannot hold a candle to a lot of the guitar players mentioned (and many, many more NOT mentioned)... however I would rather listen to AiC (or even Boggy Depot) than 95% of the recordings by most of the players mentioned... lol. Not that he's a lousy player either... but technically speaking. The way that he an Layne Staley created and meshed together was unreal. And he is a very good song writer in his own right.
As suggested it's silly to rank them, it's all completely subjective (unless you are basing on specific criteria... who reads more, who knows/uses more scales, etc etc etc) but it is a fun discussion.
Peggy O - ( New Window )
Quote:
My favorites include Dimebag Darrell, John Petrucci, Dave Murray, Marty Friedman, Jeff Hanneman/Kerry King (kinda have to include them together) and Jerry Cantrell.
Greg that is a perfect example of why you really can't rate guitarists as many have already stated. Cantrell technically and "gymnastically" cannot hold a candle to a lot of the guitar players mentioned (and many, many more NOT mentioned)... however I would rather listen to AiC (or even Boggy Depot) than 95% of the recordings by most of the players mentioned... lol. Not that he's a lousy player either... but technically speaking. The way that he an Layne Staley created and meshed together was unreal. And he is a very good song writer in his own right.
As suggested it's silly to rank them, it's all completely subjective (unless you are basing on specific criteria... who reads more, who knows/uses more scales, etc etc etc) but it is a fun discussion.
Yeah. Not to mention the thousands of great players that nobody has ever heard of and never will hear of. These are are the guys playing in bars for a few bucks and teaching in music stores and what not.
JGB - Let it Rock - Friend of the Devil - ( New Window )
Yep, I wasn't calling you out either BTW, just using your post as a good example of why you can't rate guitar players... lol
I really like Dave Murray (and for that matter Adrian Smith)as well. Petrucci is a technically OUTSTANDING player, but his style and where he goes with his solos doesn't really speak to me as much. And hell Dave Murray brings another great point within the same band... Smith is the more technical player with Murray being more of a blues/improve style, and I like both but probably would rather listen Murray solo. Actually, I take that back.... probably my favorite thing about Iron Maiden is the way those two contrast their solos in pretty much every song.
Give it some time, you'll see it eventually...
Oh, I can see that Zappa is a great guitarist and gifted composer and all that. I just don't like the music that results from these gifts.
Fantastic.
9/14/91 @ MSG - ( New Window )
Jerry lights it up. Hornsby knew how to push him.