NFT: Where do you rank Jerry Garcia in the pantheon...

BOMBINO?! Any fans? Just recently heard a few songs.

From 90-00 he was the best guitar player in the world.

But he's not a great guitarist. He's a great musician and songwriter but there are tons and tons of better guitarists. But that is so not the point of Jerry Garcia, how good a guitarist he is.

Freddy King
Freddy King
and Freddy King.

Steve Cropper.

On this site not much love for Eddie Van Halen!

In comment 11870022 feelflows said:

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And then there's everybody else ;)

Don't have any link for proof, but for what it's worth.
Supposedly Clapton said Duane Allman was the greatest Guitarist he ever saw/heard

In comment 11870034 Del Shofner said:

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In comment 11869938 Phil in LA said: Quote: is silly. ^^^^ this

Agreed.

He was a great guitarist. He was great on the banjo too. Just a terrific musician.

Someone mentioned we were only talking about guys from the 60s. Eddie VanHalen was pretty good. I really love Mato Nanji too. Not really in the same league as Jimmi and Jerry et al. Buy solid still the same. Stans right, its silly to rank them.

and style is so subjective. For me, one of the most important things is the ability of a guatarist to complete a group of musicians that he is playing with and that's why I rate Garcia, Clapton and Harrison among others higher than some and guitarists like Stevie Ray Vaughan and Prince lower than some.

But one one name I didn't see that I think doesn't get enough respect is Lindsey Buckingham. Great guitar player and I love his style. When he left Fleetwood Mac in the 80's, they needed 2 guitarists to replace him.

At his peak, Eddie Hazel was one of the best guitarist on the planet.

In comment 11870209 Ira said:

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and style is so subjective. For me, one of the most important things is the ability of a guatarist to complete a group of musicians that he is playing with and that's why I rate Garcia, Clapton and Harrison among others higher than some and guitarists like Stevie Ray Vaughan and Prince lower than some.

That's definitely a legitimate criteria to use, and probably the most truly meaningful. But you're underselling Prince if that's your measure. I don't think there's a style he can't pull off convincingly and would probably compliment any band if his ego allowed strictly being a sideman. As it is, he's sat in with many folks both widely known and lesser known, across many genres, and has routinely killed it.

There was a crappy-quality Youtube video of him sitting in with Sharon Jones and making the funkiest/tightest band currently alive even funkier.

But many guys technically better than him.

Is tops.

e.g.
Technical ability & Speed 20%
Innovation 20%
Musicality 20%
Live/Jam/Improvisation 20%
Body of Original Work (as songwriter or solo composition) 20%

At least this would be a start for this kind of thing....but there's no way we would all agree on things like "musicality" or even "technical ability." But at least this would be a start to getting the dialogue going.

There are many metal guitarists and guys like Vai and Malmsteen that are so technically brilliant, but I would never listen to their music. So I would place a much higher weight for musicality (if that is even appropriate in this example) and Body Of Original work or similar.

Innovation and originality though are huge, which is why Hendrix belongs at the top, even if he is not my favorite.

Garcia is not well appreciated by a lot of snobby guitarists as they tend to go for the Beck or Trower types.

I would have a hard time ranking a lot of people, but I would put Garcia between 5-10.

In comment 11870237 noro9 said:

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But many guys technically better than him.

Not sure what you mean by "technically" here. It is likely almost no one on that list had the versatility or musical knowledge that Garcia had. People often confuse his ability to play over simple chord progressions as lacking technical ability.

Clapton is often considered over-rated because his work is primarily blues or bluesy rock. I can assure you after having tried to play like him for 30+ years, that he still plays 3 simple notes better than I ever have.

So these things are not very obvious to discern....

to playing with some soul, Jerry is hard to beat.

But I agree with Phil, that trying to compare Garcia to say John McLaughlin or Jimmy Page or Zappa is like trying to compare apples, oranges, peaches and bananas. They're all so different and brilliant in their own way.

started out doing little well, but just enough at the right time with the right mix of other factors.

He has since gone on to create a genre almost all his own. Some people grow into it. The talent was always there, but like most people, he had to work for it. He just took a different path.

Clapton didn't know much early on but was a young blues player when there weren't many around crossing over into rock. He has since dedicated his live to music and learning and it shows. He was an early guitar god, but there would be thousands of more talented technical players at a young age better than him now. Many will never get a chance to become any where near as commercially successful due to lack of originality and just fate.

Not fast. But among the tastiest melodically ever. And quite the innovator on tones and effects. He can do it all tho as I said not fast. Knopfler so melodic and original in style and technique. I find it impossible to rank some of these guys.

40 years later and I still listen to him every day.

His solo on Blue Sky is ridiculous...mixolydian perfection...

Then Henrdix, then the rest, including...


Clapton
Haynes
Garcia
Larry Carlton
Steve Howe
Derek Trucks

Yup, real Peach Head here!

When it comes to his tone and playing.

My faves:

(Classics) - Jerry, Clapton, Jimi, Page, Stevie Ray, Knopfler

(Now) - Jim James, Nels Cline, Derek Trucks, Luther Dickinson, Marc Ford, Stephen Malkmus

And do yourselves a favor and check out a 6th grader named Brandon Niiederauer. He is the next rock guitar superstar and lives in my school district.

Brandon Niederauer.

In comment 11870289 dannysection 313 said:

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Larry Carlton Steve Howe

Two of my all-time favorites!

I have to throw another into the mix that I haven't seen mentioned. I think he's a criminally underrated guitarist, and that's because he play with one of the best drummers ever, one of the most technically sound bassists, who also happens to have a voice that no one could mistake for any other.

Alex Lifeson

In comment 11870029 The Turk said:

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and there isn't anyone alive younger than what - 60? Any young guys who could be on this list? Gary Clark Jr?

Kenny Wayne Shepherd is in the conversation.

But when I think of underrated I think Prince or Zappa. Garcia was always known to be a great guitarist with the people I know.

so many forget Skydog but he was an all time great. I love Jimi as a composer and player and Clapton is a virtuoso but Duane could really play. He did not even live to age 25 but listen to his licks on 'Why does love got to be so sad' and you will hear his greatness. He answers every vocal line with a different lick and Clapton joins in for the second solo. Great stuff.

In comment 11870216 Bill in Del said:

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But one one name I didn't see that I think doesn't get enough respect is Lindsey Buckingham. Great guitar player and I love his style. When he left Fleetwood Mac in the 80's, they needed 2 guitarists to replace him.

I always loved his playing and always mention him. Incredible taste and ability.

What he accomplished by the age 24 was unreal. Legend.

the dead was around when I was growing up, mostly ignoring them, I never realized how good Garcia was.

later in life, as I gave more things a chance I had quickly dismissed as an adolescent, I was amazed.

I'm glad I got to see the dead before Jerry died and he was a very talented musician, but even then with all the admiration I have for him I still don't consider him an all time great. I consider him sort of like Frank Zappa, a creative genius, but not necessarily a technician - maybe he was, maybe they both were, but it's not what I appreciate about either.

I find it hard to believe that a guy with Jerry Garcia's innate musical feel and instincts couldn't excel at guitar in almost any genre, as long as he was passionate about that genre. Maybe the virtuoso genres that rely far more on technique than taste *might* elude him, but I've always felt that you can't definitively say someone can't play with speed and precision merely because they don't.

We're not talking about your average weekend warrior who just doesn't have it in him to shred no matter how many hours he puts into practice. A guy like Garcia, he's already got enough innate musical talent to separate himself from the pack. If his practice habits were as disciplined and fanatical as his technical superiors (which I HIGHLY doubt), who knows how he would have played?

as little as I like his music, was certainly a technician.

Zappa is the only guitarist listed on this thread that could legitimately be ranked over Hendrix.
Jimi himself said that Zappa was the best improvisational guitarist he had ever heard.
Zappa introduced Jimi to the wah wah oedal
Without Zappa's "Freak Out" there is no Sgt Peppers
His influence is more far reaching than any other guitarist there was or is

His music is unconventional and incomprehensible to the masses, he was a genius, not everyone gets it

Listen to "Black Napkins", "Watermelon in Easter Hay" or the solo in "Muffin Man" and tell me the man wasn't a genius.

He plays fast and with soul, not easy to do, covers rock, jazz, blues, progressive, classical, Zappa had more range than anyone anywhere at anytime.

This ain't Keith Richards on "Sympathy for the Devil" ( not that there's anything wrong with Smoathy for the Devil but you gotta think when you listen to Zappa, he challenges you throughout his songs.

Give it some time, you'll see it eventually...

Two of my favorites still doing grear work, J. Mascis and Bob Mould. J. Mascis is incredible.

.

Guitarists I like better than Jerry:
Bireli Lagrene (gypsy jazz)
Jeff Beck
McLaughlin
Jimi
Steve Morse
Herring
Page
Winter
Larry Coryell
Haynes
Duane
Alvin Lee
Guy
Charlie Hitchcock
Gilmour
Mike Stern
Roy Buchanan
SRV
Santana
Howe
Betts
Fareed Haque (Garaj Mahal)
Al Schnier (moe.)
Chuck Garvey (moe.)
Tim Palmieri (The Breakfast)
Josh Clark (Tea Leaf Green)

Part of this has do with seeing some of these guitarists much more often than I saw Jerry & Jerry gets too noodly for me at times.

I find that most people who dislike Zappa's music know mostly his crappy 80s music.

If you have Spotify try out Hot Rats or Overnite Sensation.

In comment 11870347 Wuphat said:

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I have to throw another into the mix that I haven't seen mentioned. I think he's a criminally underrated guitarist, and that's because he play with one of the best drummers ever, one of the most technically sound bassists, who also happens to have a voice that no one could mistake for any other. Alex Lifeson

I was going to mention Lifeson also.

A couple other favorites of mine -

Yngvie Malmsteen
Joe Satriani

"Shut up and play yer guitar" was originally recorded in the '80's, possibly the greatest collection of guitar solos found in one spot.

Included Steve Vai and my favorite room worker, Peter Wolf...

Different tastes. I prefer the late 60s early 70s fusion playing better. 80s Zappa was too calculated and crisp for my liking.

Maybe Django Reinhart or John Fahey or Leo Kotke should be mentioned. They're not electric but they are contemporary. Well maybe not Django.

from his left (fret) hand

Although I like " you are what you is", "Joe's Garage" and " Sheik Yerbouti"

His run of 9 albums in a row from " Just Another Band From LA" to "Zoot Allures" is phenomenal.

Gotta say "Overnite Sensation" and "Apostrophe' are my most listened to though.

"Watch out where the huskies go and don't you eat that yellow snow..."

who heavily influenced Jerry. He was enamored with Django's playing style.

Is better than almost all guitarist listed in this thread.

I don't think you'll find many takers!

In comment 11870984 Lafferty, Daniel said:

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I don't think you'll find many takers!

Maybe. Most Americans only listen to main stream music. Phish is too "weird" for their tastes.

My favorites include Dimebag Darrell, John Petrucci, Dave Murray, Marty Friedman, Jeff Hanneman/Kerry King (kinda have to include them together) and Jerry Cantrell.

If phish is too weird, I don't have a chance...