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Ray rice

GiantsFaninPatsLand : 9/19/2014 9:19 pm
Apperently espn is breaking it that Ray Rice was offered a job with the ravens in exchange for his silence. It seems as if the ravens were trying to cover up the video tape.
Link - ( New Window )
lol  
robbieballs2003 : 9/19/2014 9:21 pm : link
But the NFL hired a guy from a law firm that they use so we should get all the facts soon enough. (Rolls eyes)
last two threads on this  
natefit : 9/19/2014 9:22 pm : link
were deleted not sure why. lets see if this one makes it...
Link hangs for me,  
shepherdsam : 9/19/2014 9:29 pm : link
Anyone care to summarize?
Natefit  
GiantsFaninPatsLand : 9/19/2014 9:29 pm : link
I didn't see any threads on this when I checked
Thanks for the heads up
All this  
bceagle05 : 9/19/2014 9:35 pm : link
to protect Ray Rice?!? Is he really that important? Apparently Harbaugh wanted to cut him right away - the only sane one in the room, apparently.
RE: All this  
Mason : 9/19/2014 9:42 pm : link
In comment 11871858 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
to protect Ray Rice?!? Is he really that important? Apparently Harbaugh wanted to cut him right away - the only sane one in the room, apparently.


Hmm... the guy who went to bat for him? I'm not sure if I buy that rumor much either. There seems to be a lot of whitewashing, meanwhile the media has shamed and tried to silence the victim. Seems like she is being victimize twice.
RE: All this  
Giantology : 9/19/2014 9:45 pm : link
In comment 11871858 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
to protect Ray Rice?!? Is he really that important? Apparently Harbaugh wanted to cut him right away - the only sane one in the room, apparently.


Apparently, its apparent.
Haha yeah one too many apparents.  
bceagle05 : 9/19/2014 9:51 pm : link
I'm sure the "independent" investigation will uncover everything.
Its a classic case  
natefit : 9/19/2014 9:52 pm : link
of failed damage control. They could have pulled it off had the 2nd vid not dropped. It was never about Rice. It was always about the NFL image and the $ponsor$.
Shep - coverup allegations  
WeatherMan : 9/19/2014 9:52 pm : link
in that Ravens ownership knew how bad the tape was and behind the scenes did everything possible (including pushing the pre-trial divergence program) to bury it's existence, and, from the perspective of Rice, tried to bribe his silence with a future job offer.

Harbaugh wanted to cut him immediately, but Bisciotti (owner), Cass (Pres), and Newsome (GM) overruled and led the attempted coverup. If true, the Ravens executives are in deep shit.
RE: Shep - coverup allegations  
Mason : 9/19/2014 9:54 pm : link
In comment 11871876 WeatherMan said:
Quote:
in that Ravens ownership knew how bad the tape was and behind the scenes did everything possible (including pushing the pre-trial divergence program) to bury it's existence, and, from the perspective of Rice, tried to bribe his silence with a future job offer.

Harbaugh wanted to cut him immediately, but Bisciotti (owner), Cass (Pres), and Newsome (GM) overruled and led the attempted coverup. If true, the Ravens executives are in deep shit.


In trouble from who??????
if this is all true it will incite public fury  
WeatherMan : 9/19/2014 9:56 pm : link
against the Ravens execs, Goodell would have no choice but to hit them hard. Suspension for the owner, of worse term than that of Irsay, and one or both of Cass and Newsome would see the axe. Again, that if those reports are accurate.
RE: if this is all true it will incite public fury  
Mason : 9/19/2014 10:03 pm : link
In comment 11871880 WeatherMan said:
Quote:
against the Ravens execs, Goodell would have no choice but to hit them hard. Suspension for the owner, of worse term than that of Irsay, and one or both of Cass and Newsome would see the axe. Again, that if those reports are accurate.


Just think about your logic. Once again, I asked who? What crime was committed by the Ravens? What public outcry? Raven fans who in their poll were against him being cut in the first place? TV viewers who response in the light of this was to watch more to increase television ratings? Sponsors who response was hey come now guys but hell no we love our ads on your games because we know some other company will take our place in less than a second?

Media talking points does not make public sentiment.
Thanks Weatherman!  
shepherdsam : 9/19/2014 10:04 pm : link
.
I'm not going to argue with you Mason  
WeatherMan : 9/19/2014 10:07 pm : link
I reiterate, if this report is true, the league will take action against Ravens executives. They do not need to have committed a crime to do wrong, and the shortsighted opinion of Ravens fans has nothing to do with the outcome.
The victim is one who married the guy...  
Crispino : 9/19/2014 10:08 pm : link
after he cold cocked her. That doesn't exactly paint her in the best light. What's her message to other victims? Don't risk derailing the gravy train. Stand by your abuser.
RE: I'm not going to argue with you Mason  
Mason : 9/19/2014 10:12 pm : link
In comment 11871888 WeatherMan said:
Quote:
I reiterate, if this report is true, the league will take action against Ravens executives. They do not need to have committed a crime to do wrong, and the shortsighted opinion of Ravens fans has nothing to do with the outcome.


Weatherman, you did not talk about morality. You said they were in trouble. And yes fans and revenue support and business partners have everything to do with it.
Ray Rice is a good player but  
Some Fan : 9/19/2014 10:30 pm : link
not good enough for them to jump thrust hoops like that.
Read the ESPN Article  
hudson : 9/19/2014 10:35 pm : link
Ray Rice was not just some football player. He was the face of Baltimore:

Quote:
No player did more for the community than Rice, and no player on the team embraced the city of Baltimore the way he did. Rice named his daughter, Rayven, after the team's nickname. He had the "Baltimore" tattooed on his forearms. He became friends with Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, appearing with her regularly at charity events. He raised millions for sick children, urged the state legislature in Annapolis to pass anti-bullying laws and hosted a football camp for hundreds of disadvantaged kids each year. He even dressed up as Santa Claus at an event hosted by the House of Ruth, a Baltimore shelter for victims of domestic violence. During the week before the Super Bowl this year, two weeks before the incident, Rice appeared on an anti-bullying panel. Perhaps most visibly, Rice was the longtime spokesman for M&T Bank, one of the team's main sponsors and one that has its name on the Ravens' stadium. Practically every time Bisciotti asked Rice to make an appearance on behalf of the team, he'd say yes.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: The victim is one who married the guy...  
Mason : 9/19/2014 10:43 pm : link
In comment 11871890 Crispino said:
Quote:
after he cold cocked her. That doesn't exactly paint her in the best light. What's her message to other victims? Don't risk derailing the gravy train. Stand by your abuser.


This post represents everything wrong with this situation. Awesome victim shaming.
Mason, Rice is a scumbag, but this woman, who was....  
Crispino : 9/19/2014 11:33 pm : link
a victim, now exacerbates the situation by marrying the guy who perpetrated the violence. Excusing him and standing by him just perpetuates the cycle. It sends a terrible message to other victims. Is that too hard for you to grasp?
Crispino  
dcgiantsfan : 9/19/2014 11:51 pm : link
While it's hard for me to understand why she would stay with Rice after he knocked her out, but there has been countless stories about victims staying with their abuser no matter how bad they are treated. Janay is not alone.
She married him after the fact.  
Crispino : 9/20/2014 8:44 am : link
She wasn't trapped in a marriage with no options. She had more options than most abused women. What she chose to do was protect to protect him from the consequences and then lashed out at the media for persecuting poor Ray. That's on her.
...  
SanFranGiantsFan : 9/20/2014 9:02 am : link
What a total clusterf*ck from all parties. I don't know how heads haven't rolled yet. It amazes me.
From ESPN ...  
sphinx : 9/20/2014 9:17 am : link
That afternoon, the Ravens terminated Rice's contract ... Bisciotti and the team released a letter to Ravens season-ticket holders contending that the team had not seen the video until the morning of Sept. 8 ... Rice and his friends read the letter with barely concealed contempt and disgust ... Minutes later, Rice's phone buzzed. He could scarcely believe what he was looking at-- back-to-back text messages from Bisciotti. Rice read them aloud so everyone in the room could hear them:

Hey Ray, just want to let you know, we loved you as a player, it was great having you here. Hopefully all these things are going to die down. I wish the best for you and Janay.

When you're done with football, I'd like you to know you have a job waiting for you with the Ravens helping young guys getting acclimated to the league.


Rice was flabbergasted. One minute Bisciotti and the Ravens were essentially calling him a liar, the next Bisciotti was quietly offering him a job?

From who?  
Headhunter : 9/20/2014 9:42 am : link
45 percent of football fans are women.When Busch and Pepsi
start taking about their involvement with the NFL, you better believe the Raven execs are worried
Ironically  
NYBEN : 9/20/2014 10:23 am : link
I think Ray Rice is the ONLY one that told the truth throughout this whole thing.
RE: From ESPN ...  
natefit : 9/20/2014 10:41 am : link
In comment 11872021 sphinx said:
Quote:
That afternoon, the Ravens terminated Rice's contract ... Bisciotti and the team released a letter to Ravens season-ticket holders contending that the team had not seen the video until the morning of Sept. 8 ... Rice and his friends read the letter with barely concealed contempt and disgust ... Minutes later, Rice's phone buzzed. He could scarcely believe what he was looking at-- back-to-back text messages from Bisciotti. Rice read them aloud so everyone in the room could hear them:

Hey Ray, just want to let you know, we loved you as a player, it was great having you here. Hopefully all these things are going to die down. I wish the best for you and Janay.

When you're done with football, I'd like you to know you have a job waiting for you with the Ravens helping young guys getting acclimated to the league.

Rice was flabbergasted. One minute Bisciotti and the Ravens were essentially calling him a liar, the next Bisciotti was quietly offering him a job?


If Rice can produce those txts Bisc is in hot water
Some people are twisted, some people are  
GiantsUA : 9/20/2014 11:04 am : link
turned on by pain, and others are just pathetic and need professional help
Everyone's talking about sending the right message  
Montreal Man : 9/20/2014 11:40 am : link
So, what is the message being sent by Rice's fiance, who, after being abused by Rice, went on to marry him.

It's not shaming the victim at all, whoever made that knee-jerk comment. She CHOSE to enter into a marriage with someone who abused her.

Why aren't the do-gooders and feminists trying to deconstruct THAT behavior!? They won't because they know that the message she sent by marrying him isn't a good or positive one, so they slide by it. It's easier to attack everyone else.

Now, I don't mean that she should be attacked, but in all the psycho-babble foisted upon us by the "set an example" crowd, no one has babbled about this very important aspect, one that sends a negative message to young women.
oh no!  
Pork and Beans : 9/20/2014 12:55 pm : link
Not public outcry! While the ratings are still up? Oh no!
RE: Everyone's talking about sending the right message  
baadbill : 9/20/2014 1:43 pm : link
In comment 11872107 Montreal Man said:
Quote:
So, what is the message being sent by Rice's fiance, who, after being abused by Rice, went on to marry him.

It's not shaming the victim at all, whoever made that knee-jerk comment. She CHOSE to enter into a marriage with someone who abused her.

Why aren't the do-gooders and feminists trying to deconstruct THAT behavior!? They won't because they know that the message she sent by marrying him isn't a good or positive one, so they slide by it. It's easier to attack everyone else.

Now, I don't mean that she should be attacked, but in all the psycho-babble foisted upon us by the "set an example" crowd, no one has babbled about this very important aspect, one that sends a negative message to young women.


Montreal, I don't pretend to know a lot about domestic violence, but I seem to recall reading that it is not at all uncommon for women who are physically abused to have a terrible time breaking away from their abuser. I don't know all the factors behind it, but I don't think it is as easily explained as "she decided to defend him".
RE: Shep - coverup allegations  
HomerJones45 : 9/20/2014 2:08 pm : link
In comment 11871876 WeatherMan said:
Quote:
in that Ravens ownership knew how bad the tape was and behind the scenes did everything possible (including pushing the pre-trial divergence program) to bury it's existence, and, from the perspective of Rice, tried to bribe his silence with a future job offer.

Harbaugh wanted to cut him immediately, but Bisciotti (owner), Cass (Pres), and Newsome (GM) overruled and led the attempted coverup. If true, the Ravens executives are in deep shit.
For what? For volunteering to do something that they weren't obligated to do in the first place? For listening to Rice's wife who said she wanted the whole kefluffle to go away?

Someone said this was a failed attempt at damage control. Not quite. It's a failed attempt at trying to cash in on public relations by the employer's cartel getting involved in the personal lives of employees when they had no obligation to do so without thinking through what that meant. Now they've bungled it and looked like a bunch of jackasses. Good enough for them.

To expect the NFL or the Ravens to treat the Rice incident  
GeofromNJ : 9/20/2014 4:16 pm : link
as a domestic abuse incident is folly. The Ravens need Rice to win football games. From a Goodell/NFL standpoint, sponsors were threatening to leave in droves. Nobody wants their product associated with an organization that minimizes domestic violence. The Goodell presser was an attempt to change the image of the NFL and to convince sponsors that the current unsavory image of the NFL is temporary, so please, please, don't pull your ads. I and the owners are begging you.
I encourage people  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2014 5:27 pm : link
to do a little research on domestic abuse before making brash claims such as not at all feeling bad for his wife. This happens a very high percentage of the time. It's akin to quitting alcohol or tobacco; just not that simple. My mother is a social worker and sees stuff like this all the time, its all too common which is sad, but proof that his wife simply can't walk away as many BBIers easily suggest.

As for this report. If it ends up being legit, Ravens brass is in for some massive fines and likely some firings.
RE: RE: Everyone's talking about sending the right message  
Montreal Man : 9/20/2014 5:32 pm : link
In comment 11872178 baadbill said:
Quote:
In comment 11872107 Montreal Man said:


Quote:


So, what is the message being sent by Rice's fiance, who, after being abused by Rice, went on to marry him.

It's not shaming the victim at all, whoever made that knee-jerk comment. She CHOSE to enter into a marriage with someone who abused her.

Why aren't the do-gooders and feminists trying to deconstruct THAT behavior!? They won't because they know that the message she sent by marrying him isn't a good or positive one, so they slide by it. It's easier to attack everyone else.

Now, I don't mean that she should be attacked, but in all the psycho-babble foisted upon us by the "set an example" crowd, no one has babbled about this very important aspect, one that sends a negative message to young women.



Montreal, I don't pretend to know a lot about domestic violence, but I seem to recall reading that it is not at all uncommon for women who are physically abused to have a terrible time breaking away from their abuser. I don't know all the factors behind it, but I don't think it is as easily explained as "she decided to defend him".


Yes, it is complicated and I never said "she decided to defend him." That's someone else's quote. What I'm addressing is the absence of comment or examination by everyone, especially women, of the message his wife is sending to women everywhere by marring the guy who abused her. It's certainly not a positive one, which is why this aspect is being ignored, IMO.
Montreal  
baadbill : 9/20/2014 5:59 pm : link
"... the message his wife is sending to women everywhere by marring the guy who abused her. It's certainly not a positive one, which is why this aspect is being ignored, IMO."

But that's the point I was trying to make. I don't think it's as simple as your comment seems to suggest. I don't think "she decided" to marry her abuser - just as I don't think women "decide" to stay with their abusers. You make it sound as though all she had to do was to decide to walk away and not marry him. And I think all of us think the same way - including me. But my point is that we it is likely, from the very little I know, that we think that way out of ignorance about the subject - that abused women behave that way - are unable to separate - for a reason - and the reason isn't as simple as a voluntary decision.
See my post above  
UConn4523 : 9/20/2014 6:02 pm : link
it's just not that simple
RE: Everyone's talking about sending the right message  
buford : 9/20/2014 8:11 pm : link
In comment 11872107 Montreal Man said:
Quote:
So, what is the message being sent by Rice's fiance, who, after being abused by Rice, went on to marry him.

It's not shaming the victim at all, whoever made that knee-jerk comment. She CHOSE to enter into a marriage with someone who abused her.

Why aren't the do-gooders and feminists trying to deconstruct THAT behavior!? They won't because they know that the message she sent by marrying him isn't a good or positive one, so they slide by it. It's easier to attack everyone else.

Now, I don't mean that she should be attacked, but in all the psycho-babble foisted upon us by the "set an example" crowd, no one has babbled about this very important aspect, one that sends a negative message to young women.


No one is trying to deconstruct her behavior because it's well known that the victims of domestic violence are usually co-dependent on the abuser and the situation. If you've ever read anything on it, you'd know that.
^  
David in LA : 9/20/2014 10:27 pm : link
I have to question how boring your life must be to hang around on a GIANTS message board, and AP and Rice are the only football related topics you post on. So fucking weird.
Apparently your life is boring as well, Dave  
GeofromNJ : 9/20/2014 11:34 pm : link
You're here, reading the Rice thread.
...  
The General : 9/21/2014 4:54 am : link
I'm from Baltimore and I have A LOT of female Ravens fans who constantly post pro Rice stuff. It's pretty shocking. Here are a couple doozys:

"It's bullshit! Everyone was sucking his dick when he helped win the super bowl ! Now when someone makes a mistake everyone is their judge and jury! Who the fuck r you to judge anyone! It's just ridiculous anymore!"

"I am SO over this NFL crisis that's going on right now. I miss football, period. I wanna be able to wear any jersey I want without being scrutinized. I wanna hear about stats and kick ass plays rather than who's hitting their wife or spanking their kids. I don't care what they do at home. I really don't. I care about what they do on the field! if we keep arresting them and suspending them, there wont be any good football to watch. bring football back!!! #fortheloveofgod #goravens"


Again, these are both from women.
RE: Montreal  
Montreal Man : 9/21/2014 7:37 am : link
In comment 11872273 baadbill said:
Quote:
"... the message his wife is sending to women everywhere by marring the guy who abused her. It's certainly not a positive one, which is why this aspect is being ignored, IMO."

But that's the point I was trying to make. I don't think it's as simple as your comment seems to suggest. I don't think "she decided" to marry her abuser - just as I don't think women "decide" to stay with their abusers. You make it sound as though all she had to do was to decide to walk away and not marry him. And I think all of us think the same way - including me. But my point is that we it is likely, from the very little I know, that we think that way out of ignorance about the subject - that abused women behave that way - are unable to separate - for a reason - and the reason isn't as simple as a voluntary decision.


Okay, one more time. I am NOT making a comment, observation, judgment on why she married Ray Rice. I'm talking about how, in all the wordage about this incident, I have NOT heard commentators -- women especially -- address the issue we're speaking about. Whatever you or I think about the motivation of abused women, the very public message sent to women and kids everywhere by her marrying him should be addressed. But because, as you and others say, it is more complicated than "why did she marry him?", don't you think this avenue of discussion is more important and valuable than the incessant chatter about Goodell, the NFL, the Ravens, the culture of the NFL (whatever that is!??), and worthy of a lot of air time? I do. However, on the surface, the message sent by her marrying him is not a positive one for her and for women, so it's avoided.
RE: RE: Montreal  
baadbill : 9/21/2014 7:57 am : link
In comment 11872556 Montreal Man said:
Quote:
Okay, one more time. I am NOT making a comment, observation, judgment on why she married Ray Rice. I'm talking about how, in all the wordage about this incident, I have NOT heard commentators -- women especially -- address the issue we're speaking about. Whatever you or I think about the motivation of abused women, the very public message sent to women and kids everywhere by her marrying him should be addressed. But because, as you and others say, it is more complicated than "why did she marry him?", don't you think this avenue of discussion is more important and valuable than the incessant chatter about Goodell, the NFL, the Ravens, the culture of the NFL (whatever that is!??), and worthy of a lot of air time? I do. However, on the surface, the message sent by her marrying him is not a positive one for her and for women, so it's avoided.


If what you are saying is that it would be helpful for the media to spend some time explaining why women stay attached to their abusers, then yes, education is always important. I have heard some discussion of that by some experts, but I agree, in theory it would be helpful to have that issue addressed more explicitly.

The "problem" in doing so is that it results in "experts" discussing Janay's psychological makeup in public, which would be inappropriate for a multitude of reasons ...
(1) it violates her privacy;
(2) she is the victim and discussing her in the third person just victimizes her further; and
(3) without being her psychologist with private sessions, nobody can do anything but talk in generalizations about women and their abusers.

So, while it is an important issue and sends a confusing message to the uneducated (and educated), IMO it would nevertheless be highly inappropriate, for the reasons I listed above, for the media to be addressing why Janay married Ray Rice. So, for it to be done, I think it has to be done very carefully and generically without discussing Janay getting married - or at least not pretending to be deconstructing her psychologically (as someone else put it so much more eloquently than I ever could)
RE: Apparently your life is boring as well, Dave  
David in LA : 9/21/2014 1:11 pm : link
In comment 11872458 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
You're here, reading the Rice thread.


Yes, reading a fucking thread takes all but a brief minute. Sorry if that's a hard concept for you to wrap your head around.
Rice's appeal for reinstatement is based on claiming TMZ edited  
montanagiant : 9/21/2014 1:34 pm : link
The elevator tape:
Quote:
According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Ray Rice will be basing his appeal of his indefinite suspension by the NFL on the claim that the video showing him knocking out his then-fianceé, Janay Palmer, in a hotel elevator was edited by TMZ.

Here's Schefter:

Legal sources told Schefter that the TMZ tape of Rice hitting his then-fiancee was a cleaned-up, whittled down and condensed version of the events that took place in the Atlantic City casino elevator.

link - ( New Window )
RE: Rice's appeal for reinstatement is based on claiming TMZ edited  
baadbill : 9/21/2014 2:25 pm : link
In comment 11873226 montanagiant said:
Quote:
According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Ray Rice will be basing his appeal of his indefinite suspension by the NFL on the claim that the video showing him knocking out his then-fianceé, Janay Palmer, in a hotel elevator was edited by TMZ.

Here's Schefter:

Legal sources told Schefter that the TMZ tape of Rice hitting his then-fiancee was a cleaned-up, whittled down and condensed version of the events that took place in the Atlantic City casino elevator.


IMO, he's just making it worse for himself by trying to say that there's parts of the tape missing - in other words, he's trying to say: "You're missing the part of the tape where she does shit that justifies me knocking her unconscious."

Way to go Ray. You're da man!
baaadbill  
Montreal Man : 9/22/2014 7:04 am : link
Take your points and basically agree. This has been a misunderstanding where two of us aren't really disagreeing, just approaching the issue from different angles.

Also, I never wanted these media muffs to psychoanalyze Janay, only to bring up the subject of why women stick with abusive men. It's a very complex issue and worthy of real discussion.
RE: Some people are twisted, some people are  
Cam in MO : 9/22/2014 7:35 am : link
In comment 11872081 GiantsUA said:
Quote:
turned on by pain, and others are just pathetic and need professional help


Sorry, I don't see how this is relavant at all to this situation.

You appear to be equating consensual acts (people turned on by pain- BDSM) with domestic violence and someone being struck out of anger.

They're two completely different things. Most importantly, one is safely acting out fantasies with a consenting adult, while the other is as real as it gets criminal actions.

Cam!  
Pork and Beans : 9/22/2014 9:42 am : link
You finally found a thread to mention your kinky sex acts, where it is warranted and relevant. :)
RE: Cam!  
RC02XX : 9/22/2014 10:36 am : link
In comment 11875578 Pork and Beans said:
Quote:
You finally found a thread to mention your kinky sex acts, where it is warranted and relevant. :)


Yeah...but as we all know, that never stops him from mentioning it no matter the topic of the thread. I think he's compensating for something...;)
She was his high school sweetheart, if I'm not mistaken...  
Dunedin81 : 9/22/2014 10:42 am : link
the idea that she's just some random golddigger is untrue. Whether she's a battered woman or not, the idea that a woman whom no one knew of until this incident has some sort of responsibility to all victims of domestic violence is simply unreasonable. We can smirk at her choices, but these sorts of things happen all the time. Battered women standing by their abuser, if that's the case, or women who don't want to see their loved one lose his livelihood. Trying to get inside her head, making judgments about her behavior based on little or no understanding of what happens to victims of DV, it is absolutely victim-shaming.
The same organization that  
Bubba : 9/22/2014 2:08 pm : link
erected a statue in honor of Ray Lewis is trying to cover up the Ray Rice incident? Can't be true can it?
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