I will start off by asking if anyone recalls the fight between Holyfield and Hasim Rahman? Holyfield gave him baseball size HEMATOMA one of the worst in the history of boxing, due to headbutts. He should be recognized as a dirty fighter. He was only considered a warrior because fighters such as Lennox Lewis were out of range of what he intended to do. It is clear in any examination of his fights he intentionally leads with his head as weapon the whole fight. He would duck and aim straight into Tyson. Holyfield was never warned. Keep in mind Tyson was winning the battle of hand speed, at the time of the retaliation. It should also be noted that Holyfield and Lennox Lewis never attempted to maneuver to fight Tyson on his rise. You could suggest that that both those guys could have fought Tyson right after the title acquisition in the Spinks fight.
Holyfield was a piece of shit.
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Holyfield isn't the best of people tho.
Tyson was just a shell of his former self. Tyson's true prime was about a decade earlier in '87. I think Tyson would've killed Holyfield had they fought in '87-'88, Holyfield was a bulldog but Tyson was just on another planet at the time.
But we didn't see Tyson fight Holyfield in the late 80s. Frankly, we didn't see Tyson fight many good fighters in his prime. So his lack of longevity + the weak opponents during his prime just makes it tough to rate him All-time.
We also never got to see Tyson in many back-and-forth Wars that went the distance, so it's tough to say how he would've fared against the Golden era heavyweights from Ali's era who were all used to being in wars.
So there's a lot of question marks with Mike. But I do think very highly of his peak in the late 80s and I think he could've held his own in any era. Despite the lack of longevity and the lack of truly great opponents he defeated, his talent was just obvious. Other heavyweights like a Foreman or Shavers might've had heavier hands, but Tyson was just so much quicker and imo might've been the best puncher ever. And when he was young Tyson was a sound defensive fighter. He was a beast and even if you question where he ranks on the GOAT boxers list, there's no doubt that he ranks at the top or close to it when we're talking about most exciting boxer ever.
The nfl comparison I would make to this is saying Carson Palmer was going to be the next Peyton manning and win a Super Bowl had he not blown his knee out. Or if Eli played like he did in the San Fran playoff game every game the giants would never lose a game ever. It's unrealistic to extrapolate a short period of dominance onto an entire career.
Tyson was just a shell of his former self. Tyson's true prime was about a decade earlier in '87. I think Tyson would've killed Holyfield had they fought in '87-'88, Holyfield was a bulldog but Tyson was just on another planet at the time.
But we didn't see Tyson fight Holyfield in the late 80s. Frankly, we didn't see Tyson fight many good fighters in his prime. So his lack of longevity + the weak opponents during his prime just makes it tough to rate him All-time.
We also never got to see Tyson in many back-and-forth Wars that went the distance, so it's tough to say how he would've fared against the Golden era heavyweights from Ali's era who were all used to being in wars.
So there's a lot of question marks with Mike. But I do think very highly of his peak in the late 80s and I think he could've held his own in any era. Despite the lack of longevity and the lack of truly great opponents he defeated, his talent was just obvious. Other heavyweights like a Foreman or Shavers might've had heavier hands, but Tyson was just so much quicker and imo might've been the best puncher ever. And when he was young Tyson was a sound defensive fighter. He was a beast and even if you question where he ranks on the GOAT boxers list, there's no doubt that he ranks at the top or close to it when we're talking about most exciting boxer ever.
Agree with all of this.
RE: Tyson- "Coulda, woulda, shoulda." He lacked the drive and mental make-up to be the GOAT. Early in his career when he had that incredible head movement and lightning quick hook and devastating uppercut (and underrated chin) it was clear that he absolutely had the physical prowess and skill to be ranked up there with Ali, Louis, Marciano, or any of the other all-time great heavy champs. At his peak, he absolutely would have been able to contend or win against anyone. Unfortunately he was a very damaged young man. You can really only talk about what could have been- because what actually was does not put Iron Mike in that first tier of greats. Although his weakness was mental, it was as large a chink in the armor as a glass jaw. It is good to see that he has seemingly finally put his demons and insecurities to rest.
RE: Holyfield- Absolutely was a dirty fighter. Leaned on the fact that he was always fighting bigger men so always got the benefit of the doubt. That said, he was a very good boxer with great speed, great tactician, good defense, fantastic chin, but not a lot of power.
RE: Lewis- Loved him in his younger days before his chin was exposed and he switched to the "play it safe" jab-right hand strategy that kept him winning, but made his fights boring as hell (I will say that even in the later years he was a great finisher- once his man was hurt, he'd go on the offensive and get him out quick...and as evidenced by the Rahman rematch and Vitaly fight- he could turn it on and be devastating when he wanted to.) Unfortunately- fair or not, Lennox was the beginning of the end for the division...guys winning big not because of ability, smarts, and skill, but because they're 6'5" 250...they win based on size and that "Manny method" of jab-right hand- it's basically impossible to get close.
Boxing is dying, and it's all because of the heavyweight division (and corruption/sanctioning- but that's somewhat of a chicken-egg argument). I would love to see a guy come up at 6'2 or 6'3 210-220 with power that could actually box and bring heavy back to where it should be.
IMO.
And I think that's why Tyson was such a PPV monster.
"If you have to fight, do it time-honored way, out behind the mall at 3:00."
A warrior .... however Tyson had too much power and hand speed for him at that time.
He could have fought Tyson before Razor Rudduck even. He never got called out on his TACTICS. There were street fights too. He never confronted anyone about the desire to fight Tyson until after his prison stint and several issues, and yes after 10 years as a professional.
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Yup, Holyfield juiced up to get up to heavyweight. It was fun watching Holyfield give Tyson a beatdown twice, but by many accounts Holyfield was a jerk.
He also has about 15 illegitimate kids running around Atlanta, and he's been charged with failure to pay child support for all of them before
His lateral movement was shot. In that second fight after Tyson lost his composure and bit him Holyfield kept his head out of there. They should have allowed the fight to continue
It was a double foul. This is my opinion!
As I recall it, leading up to the fight, Tyson got cut sparring and they were apprehensive that EH would lead with his head as he could be prone to do, which would open up that wound on Tyson.
My buddy and I saw the head butts a couple times early in the fight and then when finally Tyson retaliated with the infamous bite(s), we knew why MT did that.
HolDyfield was never called out in an interview. He never discussed his tactics or his drug use.
A warrior .... however Tyson had too much power and hand speed for him at that time.
He could have fought Tyson before Razor Rudduck even. He never got called out on his TACTICS. There were street fights too. He never confronted anyone about the desire to fight Tyson until after his prison stint and several issues, and yes after 10 years as a professional. Link - ( New Window )
I don't think you know what a pun is. Or a lot about anything else you've diarrhead here on this thread.
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Awesome. (pun intended)