We forced 3 turnovers. How many 3rd downs did they convert? On my watch they had 0 until late in the game when it was already decided. How'd they do on the 4th down they attempted?
This was without Thurmond. Without Beason. No Kennard.
Fire Fewell.
Oh. And by the way. Eli Manning can still play ball.
So we had two non-productive(lousy if you will) defensive performances on drives against us when they were down 17-0..That is pretty damn good..
Right before the snap on the play where LD fumbled inside our 10, I said to my friend "just please don't turn it over".. and there it was. I almost lost it then and there.
Thankfully that was the only one.
But really, turnovers are such a huge deal in football. Win the T/O battle and you've always got a good chance to win. As long as we can stop giving it away, we'll be in most games.
High maintenance !
Quote:
The combo of not turning the ball over and forcing a few turnovers ourselves was a welcome site, that's for sure.
Right before the snap on the play where LD fumbled inside our 10, I said to my friend "just please don't turn it over".. and there it was. I almost lost it then and there.
Thankfully that was the only one.
But really, turnovers are such a huge deal in football. Win the T/O battle and you've always got a good chance to win. As long as we can stop giving it away, we'll be in most games.
Oh man, completely forgot about that actually. I was at the game, just got home because I had to go somewhere else afterwards, so it's been a long day. But hey, 1 TO is better than what we've been used to recently.
Hah, well if you mean me by your last sentence.. fair enough. But I've never called our defense amazing or gone crazy in overrating them. I've just been super frustrated by the offense and special teams over the last year and a half or so to the point where I felt like it was impossible to win football games giving the ball away, not scoring points and making so many mistakes the way we were.
Lost in all this is that Eli these last 2 games has been really, really encouraging. To me, it's the best he's looked in some time. And the OL has really done a much better job than I expected. Maybe that unit isn't quite as bad as we thought. We'll see.
But we gave up over 300 yards, 16 first downs, 17 points in second half.
This is a typical BBI thing. We lose, everything sucks. We win, everything is great.
you can give up not 3, not 4, not 4, but 6 turnovers and win.I've seen this team do that. I've seen this team give up 7 sacks and win.pass for less than 160 yds and win. Rush for less than 50 and win.
You can pick your whatever, say you can't do it, and the fact is you can, and win anyway. As long as you find a way to win, that's all that matters, and that's what good teams do, win games they play like shit in, win games they have no business winning.
Like I said, I Don't like Fewell, at all. I also give the man his due. he came out with a good gameplan, used his assets and his defense held while we were bumbling in the first half. I also said, in the game thread the crisis of the game was early in the second half, and that after they went for it on 4th down and didn't make it they were done, over, their back was broken.I said they would make it interesting anyway but it fon't matter. Texans had 23 yds passing in the first half. we weren't gonna keeep fitx and co quiet all day. that we didnb't doesn't really matter, because they were toast after they failed on 4th down. The giants had imposed their will ont hem in every facet of the game, and they didn't need to kill themselves to put up good numbers after that. they took thier win and went home. That's how I saw it and said so at the time.
We played the pants off Arizona but lost; the world was ending.Meanwhile an astute eye could see that Manning had the offense down, and was just a matter of time before the rest of the team did.
In the end, your right, we win everything is fine, we lose and this place goes batshit.Fact is the Ws and Loses are all that really matter.
Are people reading this?
Drew Stanton couldn't beat a good team or a good defense. Right? I forgot who did he play today?
Also Fewell is a known idiot who has never led us to anything of note. Also did you forget that his defense is 'not aggressive' according to BBI?
Class dismissed.
Patrick? What part of giving up 153 yards in the final 6 minutes(garbage yards) while ahead 30-10 are you not understanding?
Is anyone reading this?
....
Lol
No, your stance is utter BS and stubborness..We gave up approximately 250 yards on D when it mattered amd 153 meaningless yards when it didn't(in the last 6 minutes, while leading 30-10)
I'm done with this
But people pick and choose.. how many yards did Arizona gain last week. Like 290 total? Stanton threw for 167 and people were still saying we couldn't stop him.
To me, it's about expectations. Is Houston's offense a juggernaut? No.. and without Foster they're really not. But I'm not going to sit here and say "oh they didn't have Foster, it was meaningless" because we're already down 2 of our 3 starting LB's... one of those is Beason who is the most important dude on that side of the ball save for Rolle or JPP (who has looked way better lately... I wonder if that has anything to do with the defense picking up) and we've lost our slot CB for the year.
We're not exactly playing with a full deck.. and that's ok. But I didn't expect the personnel we put out there today to pitch a shutout or dominate. They did as well as I could reasonably expect.
Did people expect the Texans to keep doing what wasn't working?
It's as if this was the first football game some of you have watched.
You know when the game was over?
When the Texans went for it on 4th and 1 in their own territory and didn't make it.
If they do, I have hard time saying they played "awesome" throughout the game.
Again...great in first half. But they didn't play great football in the second half. They didn't just have garbage-time yards. This game got far to close at the end of the third quarter.
And the Giants responded with adjustments of their own.
That's what you'd expect to happen.
The played a great first half, got beat for 2 drives in the 3rd quarter, and then shut them down until the game was well out of reach.
I'm way more worried about specials at this point than the way the defense played.
They had a lapse to bring it to 17-10 and that's it..Seattle had a lapse from up 17-3 over Broncos to allow Denver to tie it at the end..
ALL teams have lapses during a game as did the Giants, but overall the D played well today..But AGAIN, that's besides the original point that 150 of the 400+ yards were amassed during GARBAGE TIME..I cannot be any clearer than that
The explosive plays should frighten people. Fewells defense is supposed to stop those, especially when the defensive line is living in the texans backfield.
The first half was amazing. The second half wasn't. It shouldn't be a crazy concept for so many on here. This defense can be good. But the only good and healthy offense they have played thus far was the lions.
I care what they did when we were up 17-0 in the third quarter and let Houston get back in the game.
We won the game. Overall, the defense played well. But they did not play well in the third quarter and they let Houston back into the contest. Two plays and they gained 90 yards and a TD.
If they do, I have hard time saying they played "awesome" throughout the game.
Again...great in first half. But they didn't play great football in the second half. They didn't just have garbage-time yards. This game got far to close at the end of the third quarter.
But who are you quoting when you are refuting that they played "awesome" throughout the game?
I didn't say that in the OP.
My focus was on them blanking the Texans on their first 10 or so 3rd down attempts and the fact that they picked off 3 passes... 2 of which were a pretty big deal. A lot of the complaints about the defense were that they couldn't get off the field on 3rd downs. They did about as well as could possibly be expected in that regard.
Never did I claim the Giants were dominant or spectacular. I just feel like a lot of times, people don't pay enough attention to the rest of the league. A lot of people here wax poetic about the 49er defense.. they gave up 338 yards today to the same Cards team we played last week and lost.
3rd down defense was much better and turnovers (see my game preview regarding these points ... first two questions for the game)
The explosive plays should frighten people. Fewells defense is supposed to stop those, especially when the defensive line is living in the texans backfield.
The first half was amazing. The second half wasn't. It shouldn't be a crazy concept for so many on here. This defense can be good. But the only good and healthy offense they have played thus far was the lions.
Ideally every defense is supposed to stop big plays... but they still happen in pretty much every NFL game at one point or another. We had the big one to Cruz, they had a couple of their own. If we look around the league, we'll see that most of the games involve a couple of big plays. It just happens. Even to the Seahawks.
3rd down defense was much better and turnovers (see my game preview regarding these points ... first two questions for the game)
Yes, that's really all I'm saying.
We can be better. I'd like to be better. I didn't think this was a stifling, dominant performance. But I thought they did quite well. Perfect? Nah. But very good for the most part.
I care what they did when we were up 17-0 in the third quarter and let Houston get back in the game.
We won the game. Overall, the defense played well. But they did not play well in the third quarter and they let Houston back into the contest. Two plays and they gained 90 yards and a TD.
Not disagreeing with that. We both agree they played well overall..Yes they had that lousy period you alluded to. But I was not addressing that in the earlier moments of the thread. I was just addressing the garbage yards that padded Fitz' stats when it was stated/implied that the D gave up 411 yards, how is that playing well? I simply tried to respond to that with perspective..Nothing to do with your "90" point which I can't disagree with
We went again with bush league play calling to skill the clock. The defense this time had a lapse and scored. That was the most bothersome.
Defense, if anything, needs to wrap up when 1 on 1 with the QB, who is moving around the pocket. Stafford and Stanton would throw and make plays. Fitz just keep taking off with the ball. You get good pressure, you need to convert them into sacks.
Arc,
It's kind of comical watching them go full speed, and the QB move out of the way. Fitz did it today and Stafford got Moore big time. This shit happens on blitzes too... when they actually get home. Out guys come in full speed, the QB moves out of the way and that's the end of that.
I am not sure what it is. It happens religiously though. They happen on blitzes to front 4 pressure. I agree I hate that more than anything. It's a broken play and if the QB moves around, scramble rules apply for the WRs. So now the WRs break their routes and head to their landmarks.
You get a Romo or someone with a good X WR, and they may hand signal to go deep. When that shit happens, I don't trust our secondary. Someone is going to get burned. And they will do it in an epic fashion. A safety may take out a CB, which was a new one OR.. Miscommunication where the WR is wide open, and the CB and safety look at each other as if to say, I played my assignment. I am not wrong.
Wait til we play Romo 2X, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Luck, and Colin K. If we do that shit those guys will step up and hit their good WRs, or take off and run. We, as it is, suck on 3rd downs in general. So add not bringing the QB down and we will be in trouble. So that's why it's alarming to see us bring heat but come up with nothing.
1) The offense made further strides today, this time over-coming negative plays
2) The defense played great in the 1st half but needs to play a complete game
3) Detroit and Arizona are actually pretty good which may change some perspective around here
We're 1-2 and the offensive line has shown improvement. Now let's see what happens w/ Washington....
My own definition of a great defensive performance is no more than one quality offensive drive against us per half, and I discount late drives when leading by more than two scores as not exactly garbage time (that is only when you start resting your starters), but as time where yards are yielded to keep the clock moving. I also discount drives where there was a single glaring mistake the other team took advantage of. For example, the first SF touchdown in the 2012 NFCC game - Vernon Davis made an outstanding play to his credit. But I consider that to be a fluke play - one where the Giants got beat on the play but overall the defense isn't playing poorly.
Keeping an opponent to no quality drives over an entire half, with today's rules, is amazing defense.
So, considering that, how did the Giants D do today?
In the first half - they were amazing. Here's what we saw:
Possession - 1st downs - offensive snaps (not including special teams) - yards - outcome
1 - 1 - 4 - 20 - punt (punt was a fake converting to a fresh set of downs. That first down was on the ST unit, not the defense)
2 - 0 - 3 - 14 - int
3 - 0 - 3 - 9 - punt
4 - 1 - 4 - 19 - punt
5 - 0 - 3 - 0 - punt
6 - 0 - 3 - -4 - int
7 - 1 - 5 - 15 - punt
The first half was about as amazing a defensive performance as one could hope to see in today's NFL. 7 drives - 0 points, longest drive 20 yds, total first downs 3. The defense was amazing.
Second half drives, same format:
1 - 1 - 5 - 19 - turnover on downs
2 - 5 - 9 - 66 - FG
3 - 1 - 4 - 93 - TD
4 - 0 - 3 - 9 - punt
5 - 0 - 1 - 0 - int
6 - 3 - 9 - 69 - TD
7 - 3 - 7 - 72 - Time
The second half looks bad - if you choose to look at it that way. Only three drives stopped and no turnovers on 6 possessions. 3/7 drives had 7 or more plays, and 4/7 had 66 or more yards given up. Most importantly, 17 points scored. No way to dispute these facts, and if every half went this way we'd be surrendering 34 points a game and pressuring our offense to keep up with that pace. Not good.
Guys who look at the glass half-full (as I tend to do) see it differently.
First of all, drive 7 was clearly garbage time. Down by 13 with 1:37 on the clock - the defense's mission changed entirely. You don't mind giving up chunks of yardage as time is the enemy here. Also, 31 of the 72 yards came on the last play of the game - with 13 seconds on the clock and down by 13 points.
Drive 2 was really the most impressive drive the Texans had against our defense, imo, even though the team was held to a field goal. Giving up 5 first downs on the drive is NOT good defense. Yes, the team was up by 17 points but the game was far from over, with 25 minutes left when the drive started. Sometimes you have to give the other team credit - they had a good drive even if we stopped them from scoring a TD.
Drive 3 was one of those drives I discount a little because it was the result of two big plays. Again, credit the Texans for making the plays. Based on how I judge drives while the outcome was terrible they didn't just repeatedly move the ball at will. Instead, they made two good plays. Again, those things happen even to good defenses. We have to hope they don't happen often against really good teams.
So anyway, those ten points were earned by the Texans and they deserve to feel good about them and the Giants defense should feel bad about giving them up. The Giants will want to watch tape and they clearly still have things they need to work on.
The first and fourth drives went very well for the defense, especially considering what was at stake. On the first drive, to force the punt immediately after the half was great. Shutting the drive down quickly gave the Giants back the ball so they could build on their lead.
The fourth drive of the second half was the most critical drive for the Giants of the game, and they came up big. Are you kidding me? Not just a stop, but a three and out? This at a time when they had just narrowed the game to 7 points? It was huge. A scoring drive here would have resulted in the momentum swinging so far that even Giants players might have thought "here we go again". To stop them at this point was big.
The fifth drive was not much of a drive - a single snap and a great turnover for the Giants. Just as I discount somewhat the big plays for the offense I also discount somewhat the big plays for the defense - this drive wasn't about the defense imposing its will, but just the same, give credit to the defense for making a big play.
The sixth drive is what it is - something for fans to debate. Hard to dispute these facts though: there was a 20 point lead with 5:33 on the clock and the defense had a different mission at that point. No quick scoring drives (this one took 3:33 - giving the Giants possession at the two-minute warning). One big play for 49 yards that was superbly defended and the receiver just made a big-time catch. The other 8 plays yielded a total of 20 yards and 11 yards on a very questionable call in the end zone.
The OP had no problem listing our defenses injuries, but didn't say anything about probably the most important offensive player being out for the game....
Don't worry. Beckham will be back soon.
This x1000000. I can understand getting burnt by guys like Kaep and Wilson and can understand them avoiding sacks against our defense. But seeing guys like Stanton and Fitzpatrick somehow evade multiple sacks throughout the course of the game is so damn annoying. Won't complain about guys that I mentioned above being able to do that, but the QBs we faced the past two weeks shouldn't be that tough to bring down. Hopefully, they can work on that and at least improve.
I think the defense looks OK right now, and I believe they will continue to improve if Beason gets to 100% and there are no more major injuries. The big worry is depth: the linebackers and secondary are already paper-thin, with three grueling months to go in the regular season. If attrition continues at anything like the rate so far, the Giants will be signing LBs and DBs off the street by November. What do we really have in reserve at this point? Jayron Hosley? Bennett Jackson? Dan Fox?