Scattered through various threads after yesterday's win were expressions of concern about Rashad Jennings wearing out. We all know he's never been a #1 back for a full season, so his durability is an unknown. His 199 touches in 2013 were a career high, by far; he is on pace for 400 in 2014, plus heavy pass-blocking duty. And for all the talk about hyperbaric chambers and light wear on his tires, the man will be 30 in March.
So my question is, what can/should the Giants do about it? I see a few basic options:
1) Ride the horse until he breaks down. He's the best option, and these Giants have no margin to pamper anyone.
2) Feed Andre Williams the rock more often while the defense is fresh, and let him absorb part of the pounding.
3) Work Peyton Hillis in somehow - perhaps on third down so blitzing LBs smash into his shoulders rather than RJ's.
Some combination of all three might be feasible. Our first hint could come on Thursday. On one hand, the game is huge so Coughlin will be tempted to stick with his best (as he did with Tiki in 2005 after Jacobs fumbled in Dallas) - especially if Williams continues to struggle. On the other hand, Jennings is coming off a career game with just three days off. Talk about a good time to get a rotation going. And Williams doesn't seem to be a Derrick Ward type who can thrive on a small number of carries.
What say you, BBI? Can the Giants afford to reduce RJ's touches? Should they?
If he's dominating the way he was yesterday and helping us control a much need game, you leave him out there and worry about it another week.
Jennings wearing down this year is an issue I want to nip in the butt before it happens. I don't mind the heavy workload early on, but Williams is going to be counted during the second half of the season.
Williams is getting chances from what I saw. It looked like he was getting a "series" at a time more than coming in for 2 plays here and there. If we want RJ's touches lowered, Williams needs to step up and start doing more with his touches.
as for the workload, that pace is greatly influenced by 1/3 of the sample being yesterday. I could be wrong, but I dont know that we will see him get 30 plus carries again this season. I dont know that many games will unfold in ways that dictate that, and id expect williams to be further along as the season advances
Game situations won't always call for that many touches, and certainly the coaching staff is aware of the overall premise of this thread.
I think as the season rolls along, Williams will see more touches, and even Hillis will get second-half looks as a change-up/breather ... especially with a win against the Redskins and hitting the last quarter of the season in a position to make the playoffs.
What is it about Williams? How about being a rookie? Hehe
From what I could see he's not being patient. Just running full bore into where the hole hasn't formed yet. He finished his runs well the few times he found a crease. I think he'll start to find his rhythm as the offense continues to stabilize.
I know from sitting in the stands yesterday, as the Giants were putting the game away, I thought that they should have rested Jennings looking ahead to the Thursday night game and give Williams some in game experience with less risk. You are asking a lot of him to go from 30+ carries and then come right back against a division opponent on the road a few days later.
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Is it that he doesn't seem to hit holes very well?
From what I could see he's not being patient. Just running full bore into where the hole hasn't formed yet. He finished his runs well the few times he found a crease. I think he'll start to find his rhythm as the offense continues to stabilize.
he did do better yesterday. Perhaps his tendency to hit a hole that isn't there is because of how poorly the line has blocked up until 2 weeks ago? It was either hit a hole that's not there or get tackled in the back field. dunno
I know from sitting in the stands yesterday, as the Giants were putting the game away, I thought that they should have rested Jennings looking ahead to the Thursday night game and give Williams some in game experience with less risk. You are asking a lot of him to go from 30+ carries and then come right back against a division opponent on the road a few days later.
This
But Jennings's workload will decrease, starting this week IMO, because the Redskins will be looking for us to run him a lot after what we did to the Texans. We should therefore use Jennings on some play action fakes to open up some underneath and intermediate passing routes. Getting Beckham and Williams more involved in the offense will also mean fewer carries for Jennings, which is fine. Yesterday, we needed a workhorse. We need him going forward as well, but the emergence and use of other players will hopefully give him a more balanced workload going forward.
I would ramp down Jennings based on how we do moving forward - if we manage to win the next couple of games, let Jennings take the majority and work in the combo of Hillis and Williams (Hillis getting a few more carries at first, given the edge in experience). Slowly ramp Jennings down as you move on from there, and move Williams ahead of Hillis in snaps.
If we don't do so well (knock wood), then I'd consider working them in evenly at first and getting Williams more carries. If this season is going to be a wash, a transitional rebuild type year, then might as well give Jennings one more year on the 'fresh legs' boat and get the other guys experience.
Right now, Jennings can be the bell cow. But with the long week coming up after a thursday game, I think they will try and work the other RB's in after this week.
We cannot plan on riding Jennings for this many carries per game.
Right now, Jennings can be the bell cow. But with the long week coming up after a thursday game, I think they will try and work the other RB's in after this week.
The short passes would have given Wilson some more opportunities, but I think he'd also be running into the backs of his lineman like Williams is with this group. Wilson was worse in letting things develop, but this would have been a good year for him to develop that skill while being a threat out of the backfield/change of pace back.
Hopefully, with reps/practice he can turn into an adequate blocker which would allow him to enter a more true workload split (ie, 70/30 or 60/40).
Finally, Williams did come in for a series or two toward the end as we wrapped things up in garbage time. But I would definitely like to see Williams used more, to reduce wear and tear on Jennings.
Then Jennings can have a 10 day rest.
I think Williams and Hillis need to get a dozen carries combined between them starting Thursday. I also think Hillis should be worked in on 3rd downs. Hillis is probably the best blocker of the 3 and can catch the ball out of the backfield. Williams has zero receiving ability and his blocking is below average right now. He also isn't hitting the holes with authority yet. He seems like he's thinking too much out there. As a runner, I have faith in Williams being a pretty good #2 RB. But he's not there yet. And his hands & blocking are a liability.
I'm not saying I don't trust Williams, but there is a rookie mistake in him (that he hasn't made yet)
Win today, and your long-term plans are meaningful.
Lose because you tried to manage carries, and you won't be around for long-term plans.
It seems to make sense. Why leave him in that long???
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if we still had a healthy D. Wilson in this offense. All those screens and flip passes in the flat. Ugh. Hopefully Williams will get a few more carries and the game will slow down a little bit for him once he gets more involved.
Right now, Jennings can be the bell cow. But with the long week coming up after a thursday game, I think they will try and work the other RB's in after this week.
The short passes would have given Wilson some more opportunities, but I think he'd also be running into the backs of his lineman like Williams is with this group. Wilson was worse in letting things develop, but this would have been a good year for him to develop that skill while being a threat out of the backfield/change of pace back.
Really? If Wilson had such horrible vision how did he average 5 yards a carry behind two awful offensive lines when none of out other backs could even break 4 yards a carry?
84
101
163
68 through 3 games
We signed him up for his prime years as a full time guy. Last year he proved worthy handling the load for Oak. Let him be your workhorse and see what happens.
He had a couple of really long runs against shitty defenses. Whoop-de-damn-doo. 504 career yards and 175 of them came against the laughable 2012 Saints defense and Eagles who completely quit in week 16 that year.
Things will change as our confidence level rises. Jennings still looked strong to me at the end of the game. Still hungry.
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Is it that he doesn't seem to hit holes very well?
From what I could see he's not being patient. Just running full bore into where the hole hasn't formed yet. He finished his runs well the few times he found a crease. I think he'll start to find his rhythm as the offense continues to stabilize.
^^
Andre just has to get a feel for how quickly holes open and close at this level and he'll be fine
Wasn't Jim Brown bigger than most of the linebackers he faced? Anyway, Brown's career high for touches was 351.
One other funny note: when Jim Brown hit Rashad's age, he had the good sense to retire and pursue a safer career.
I also would think against some defenses he won't be called upon to carry the ball as many times and the numbers will balance themselves out as the season progresses.
Pass attempts? 39
Rush attempts? 38
Rashad 13-55
Jennings 15-66
Hillis 8-31
Eli and Hyno 1 each