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How would you manage Rashad Jennings's workload?

Big Blue Blogger : 9/22/2014 9:29 am
Scattered through various threads after yesterday's win were expressions of concern about Rashad Jennings wearing out. We all know he's never been a #1 back for a full season, so his durability is an unknown. His 199 touches in 2013 were a career high, by far; he is on pace for 400 in 2014, plus heavy pass-blocking duty. And for all the talk about hyperbaric chambers and light wear on his tires, the man will be 30 in March.

So my question is, what can/should the Giants do about it? I see a few basic options:

1) Ride the horse until he breaks down. He's the best option, and these Giants have no margin to pamper anyone.

2) Feed Andre Williams the rock more often while the defense is fresh, and let him absorb part of the pounding.

3) Work Peyton Hillis in somehow - perhaps on third down so blitzing LBs smash into his shoulders rather than RJ's.

Some combination of all three might be feasible. Our first hint could come on Thursday. On one hand, the game is huge so Coughlin will be tempted to stick with his best (as he did with Tiki in 2005 after Jacobs fumbled in Dallas) - especially if Williams continues to struggle. On the other hand, Jennings is coming off a career game with just three days off. Talk about a good time to get a rotation going. And Williams doesn't seem to be a Derrick Ward type who can thrive on a small number of carries.

What say you, BBI? Can the Giants afford to reduce RJ's touches? Should they?
I think we go 70/30 or 66/33 with Jennings/Williams  
PatersonPlank : 9/22/2014 9:31 am : link
I want to ride Jennings, but also believe Williams can be a fine runner too, and it keeps Jennings fresh. I view Hillis as just an insurance plan. Williams has a much much higher upside than Hillis, and I believe Williams will eventually be a solid starter.
We need wins right now  
Danny Kanell : 9/22/2014 9:32 am : link
We have left ourselves with very little margin for error, at least early on.

If he's dominating the way he was yesterday and helping us control a much need game, you leave him out there and worry about it another week.
I'm hoping that as Williams gets more comfortable,  
Curtis in VA : 9/22/2014 9:32 am : link
Jennings carries will decrease.
I think this is a fantastic thread  
Mike in Long Beach : 9/22/2014 9:35 am : link
That brings up a very important point moving forward. I think we can all agreer now that Jennings is a highly valued commodity we need to protect. I'd like to see Williams get more and more involved as the season progresses, sort of the way Bradshaw did throughout the 2011 postseason.

Jennings wearing down this year is an issue I want to nip in the butt before it happens. I don't mind the heavy workload early on, but Williams is going to be counted during the second half of the season.
Gotta play to win  
GIANTSr01 : 9/22/2014 9:35 am : link
"Saving" RJ so he's fresh in December is meaningless if they aren't winning games.

Williams is getting chances from what I saw. It looked like he was getting a "series" at a time more than coming in for 2 plays here and there. If we want RJ's touches lowered, Williams needs to step up and start doing more with his touches.
what is it about Williams?  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/22/2014 9:35 am : link
Is it that he doesn't seem to hit holes very well?

4th most rushing yards in giant history through 3 games  
MarshallOnMontana : 9/22/2014 9:36 am : link
Only two tiki seasons (fassell era tiki seasons oddly enough) and one rodney hampton season top it. And hes now 3rd in the nfl in rushing off the strength of yesterdays game

as for the workload, that pace is greatly influenced by 1/3 of the sample being yesterday. I could be wrong, but I dont know that we will see him get 30 plus carries again this season. I dont know that many games will unfold in ways that dictate that, and id expect williams to be further along as the season advances
34 carries is a bunch, but I doubt he's above 25 most games,  
Beezer : 9/22/2014 9:37 am : link
so while his carries will be at a career high, I don't think they'll hit where they're currently projected.

Game situations won't always call for that many touches, and certainly the coaching staff is aware of the overall premise of this thread.

I think as the season rolls along, Williams will see more touches, and even Hillis will get second-half looks as a change-up/breather ... especially with a win against the Redskins and hitting the last quarter of the season in a position to make the playoffs.
RE: what is it about Williams?  
Mike in Long Beach : 9/22/2014 9:38 am : link
In comment 11875557 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
Is it that he doesn't seem to hit holes very well?


What is it about Williams? How about being a rookie? Hehe
I think they just didn't want to risk the game yesterday.  
Victor in CT : 9/22/2014 9:40 am : link
Now that they have that 1st win I think they can work him in more as he picks up the offense
I think we'll see Dre Will get worked in more as time goes on..  
arcarsenal : 9/22/2014 9:41 am : link
Yesterday was just one of those days.. RJ was rolling. We had to keep feeding him. Ideally, most games his carries will be in the 20-25 range which is probably what will be closer to the norm as the season progresses.
RE: what is it about Williams?  
armsteadeatslittlekids : 9/22/2014 9:41 am : link
In comment 11875557 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
Is it that he doesn't seem to hit holes very well?


From what I could see he's not being patient. Just running full bore into where the hole hasn't formed yet. He finished his runs well the few times he found a crease. I think he'll start to find his rhythm as the offense continues to stabilize.
my guess  
Matt in SGS : 9/22/2014 9:46 am : link
is that Coughlin will ride Jennings early on and then as the season starts to hit the mid point, you will see the Giants get Williams more involved in the offense. They did this a few years ago with Jacobs and Bradshaw. Jacobs got a number of carries early, and then as the season went along, they transitioned more to Bradshaw.

I know from sitting in the stands yesterday, as the Giants were putting the game away, I thought that they should have rested Jennings looking ahead to the Thursday night game and give Williams some in game experience with less risk. You are asking a lot of him to go from 30+ carries and then come right back against a division opponent on the road a few days later.
its weird seeing williams out there  
MarshallOnMontana : 9/22/2014 9:47 am : link
I still have these moments where my brain is slow to adapt to number changes from longtime giants, especially when they play the same position. I still sometimes see ahmad bradshaw out there because of the 44, even with the size difference. Same thing with ayers and tuck. Sometimes it takes more than a few weeks
RE: RE: what is it about Williams?  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/22/2014 9:50 am : link
In comment 11875577 armsteadeatslittlekids said:
Quote:
In comment 11875557 I Love Clams Casino said:


Quote:


Is it that he doesn't seem to hit holes very well?




From what I could see he's not being patient. Just running full bore into where the hole hasn't formed yet. He finished his runs well the few times he found a crease. I think he'll start to find his rhythm as the offense continues to stabilize.


he did do better yesterday. Perhaps his tendency to hit a hole that isn't there is because of how poorly the line has blocked up until 2 weeks ago? It was either hit a hole that's not there or get tackled in the back field. dunno
RE: my guess  
Big Blue '56 : 9/22/2014 9:50 am : link
In comment 11875594 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
is that Coughlin will ride Jennings early on and then as the season starts to hit the mid point, you will see the Giants get Williams more involved in the offense. They did this a few years ago with Jacobs and Bradshaw. Jacobs got a number of carries early, and then as the season went along, they transitioned more to Bradshaw.

I know from sitting in the stands yesterday, as the Giants were putting the game away, I thought that they should have rested Jennings looking ahead to the Thursday night game and give Williams some in game experience with less risk. You are asking a lot of him to go from 30+ carries and then come right back against a division opponent on the road a few days later.


This
One  
AcidTest : 9/22/2014 9:57 am : link
game is not a barometer. After two losses with no running game, we needed to reestablish the ability to move the football on the ground. We needed to get back to Giants football. We did.

But Jennings's workload will decrease, starting this week IMO, because the Redskins will be looking for us to run him a lot after what we did to the Texans. We should therefore use Jennings on some play action fakes to open up some underneath and intermediate passing routes. Getting Beckham and Williams more involved in the offense will also mean fewer carries for Jennings, which is fine. Yesterday, we needed a workhorse. We need him going forward as well, but the emergence and use of other players will hopefully give him a more balanced workload going forward.
TC will stay with his  
TMS : 9/22/2014 9:58 am : link
standard of playing those who give us the best chance to win. He is old school and believes players, play hurt, as long as they are the best option for the next game. Williams is not a complete RB yet, like Jennings because of blocking and receiving skills, yet acquired. Hillis is but not as talented as a runner. Unless TC sees Jennings showing signs of slumping because of over use he will remain the man.
There was still considerable risk involved  
jcn56 : 9/22/2014 10:02 am : link
but I was also wondering why they didn't consider bringing in some combo of Williams/Hillis earlier, given the Thursday night game. I guess the need to get one win under our belt was more important than the strategic view at that point, and there's really no fault in that.

I would ramp down Jennings based on how we do moving forward - if we manage to win the next couple of games, let Jennings take the majority and work in the combo of Hillis and Williams (Hillis getting a few more carries at first, given the edge in experience). Slowly ramp Jennings down as you move on from there, and move Williams ahead of Hillis in snaps.

If we don't do so well (knock wood), then I'd consider working them in evenly at first and getting Williams more carries. If this season is going to be a wash, a transitional rebuild type year, then might as well give Jennings one more year on the 'fresh legs' boat and get the other guys experience.
Imagine  
beatrixkiddo : 9/22/2014 10:03 am : link
if we still had a healthy D. Wilson in this offense. All those screens and flip passes in the flat. Ugh. Hopefully Williams will get a few more carries and the game will slow down a little bit for him once he gets more involved.

Right now, Jennings can be the bell cow. But with the long week coming up after a thursday game, I think they will try and work the other RB's in after this week.
Option 1  
rocco8112 : 9/22/2014 10:04 am : link
.
Williams workload will increase as the year goes on  
Scyber : 9/22/2014 10:10 am : link
As he improves his pass blocking and his ability to follow blocks.

We cannot plan on riding Jennings for this many carries per game.
RE: Imagine  
armsteadeatslittlekids : 9/22/2014 10:18 am : link
In comment 11875646 beatrixkiddo said:
Quote:
if we still had a healthy D. Wilson in this offense. All those screens and flip passes in the flat. Ugh. Hopefully Williams will get a few more carries and the game will slow down a little bit for him once he gets more involved.

Right now, Jennings can be the bell cow. But with the long week coming up after a thursday game, I think they will try and work the other RB's in after this week.


The short passes would have given Wilson some more opportunities, but I think he'd also be running into the backs of his lineman like Williams is with this group. Wilson was worse in letting things develop, but this would have been a good year for him to develop that skill while being a threat out of the backfield/change of pace back.
Williams is still a liability blocking  
sjh50 : 9/22/2014 10:18 am : link
Have no confidence when he enters the game other than to run the ball. His blocking is sub-standard at best and is not yet a weapon catching the ball. In short, he is a one trick pony, and when they pass with him in the game, they generally use misdirection and additional tight-ends and his primary responsibilities aren't blocking (correctly so).

Hopefully, with reps/practice he can turn into an adequate blocker which would allow him to enter a more true workload split (ie, 70/30 or 60/40).
The 34 carries wouldn't have bothered me so much.....  
Bluenatic : 9/22/2014 10:19 am : link
.... if the Giants didn't have another game to play in 3 days.
I was cringing  
Johnny5 : 9/22/2014 10:28 am : link
With Jennings still carrying the rock at the end of the game, especially with an important game coming up Thursday. I would have worked Williams and/or Hillis at least at the end of the game.
I was yelling at the TV during the 4th quarter yesterday  
Don in DC : 9/22/2014 10:29 am : link
to put in Williams and let Jennings sit the rest of the game. We had the game comfortably in hand and yet we kept feeding it to Jennings. Considering he has, literally, been the best element of our offense thus far, I was very worried that he would get injured if we kept feeding him when he was tired.

Finally, Williams did come in for a series or two toward the end as we wrapped things up in garbage time. But I would definitely like to see Williams used more, to reduce wear and tear on Jennings.
It's tricky. It looked like Williams was ready to roll in the  
BeerFridge : 9/22/2014 10:40 am : link
pre-season. But he hasn't been nearly as effective as Jennings. I say this, ride Jennings until the bye and hopefully by then Williams will have acclimated.
This week I'd give Jennings  
mrvax : 9/22/2014 10:46 am : link
75% and Williams 25%.
Then Jennings can have a 10 day rest.
I think  
PaulBlakeTSU : 9/22/2014 10:49 am : link
Coughlin riding Jennings this week served a few purposes. Not only did it give us the best chance to get our first win, but it helped to really establish a run game for the Giants so that opponents and our own guys can see what it looks like for the Giants to have a solid running attack. This will help our passing game tremendously.
I think we should start watching Jennings' workload starting Thursday  
The_Taxman : 9/22/2014 10:49 am : link
Jennings looks like a good starting RB who runs hard, hits the holes hard, has speed, can pick up the extra 2 to 3 yards after initial contact, and is a pretty good receiver and blocker. That being said, no RB should have to carry the ball more than 25 times a game. That's a recipe for injury or being worn down by the end of the year.

I think Williams and Hillis need to get a dozen carries combined between them starting Thursday. I also think Hillis should be worked in on 3rd downs. Hillis is probably the best blocker of the 3 and can catch the ball out of the backfield. Williams has zero receiving ability and his blocking is below average right now. He also isn't hitting the holes with authority yet. He seems like he's thinking too much out there. As a runner, I have faith in Williams being a pretty good #2 RB. But he's not there yet. And his hands & blocking are a liability.
I had no problems  
giantgiantfan : 9/22/2014 10:50 am : link
feeding Jennings until her broke yesterday cause our season and respect was on the line, but moving forward Hillis needs to be brought in when the Giants are up by two scores with under 5 minutes to go....and eventually Williams.

I'm not saying I don't trust Williams, but there is a rookie mistake in him (that he hasn't made yet)
Great idea to have overall  
Killed the K-Gun : 9/22/2014 10:56 am : link
But when you're calling the next play, you have to go with the hot hand.

Win today, and your long-term plans are meaningful.


Lose because you tried to manage carries, and you won't be around for long-term plans.
I'm not sure why  
mrvax : 9/22/2014 11:02 am : link
TC didn't ask to limit Jennings once the game was wrapped up.
It seems to make sense. Why leave him in that long???
Jennings, at 29, is not a long term solution unfortunately  
SHO'NUFF : 9/22/2014 11:08 am : link
I'm not sold on Williams..I still think we should bring in a quick twitch scatback type for a change of pace
I don't see much changing, nor should it.  
kmed : 9/22/2014 11:10 am : link
I think Williams will start to get a few more touches each week and when he proves that he can handle more, he will get more. Right now, Jennings is the only guy we trust to take care of the ball and his job.
I'd probably go with option 1  
Go Terps : 9/22/2014 11:11 am : link
If the game's a blowout you take him out, but the game was in doubt until pretty late yesterday. I'd also be surprised if he saw that type of workload again any time soon. Hopefully he does.
I'd start by not giving him carries in the last minutes  
chris r : 9/22/2014 11:36 am : link
of a blow out with a game scheduled in four days.
RE: RE: Imagine  
Jacobs27 : 9/22/2014 12:05 pm : link
In comment 11875695 armsteadeatslittlekids said:
Quote:
In comment 11875646 beatrixkiddo said:


Quote:


if we still had a healthy D. Wilson in this offense. All those screens and flip passes in the flat. Ugh. Hopefully Williams will get a few more carries and the game will slow down a little bit for him once he gets more involved.

Right now, Jennings can be the bell cow. But with the long week coming up after a thursday game, I think they will try and work the other RB's in after this week.



The short passes would have given Wilson some more opportunities, but I think he'd also be running into the backs of his lineman like Williams is with this group. Wilson was worse in letting things develop, but this would have been a good year for him to develop that skill while being a threat out of the backfield/change of pace back.


Really? If Wilson had such horrible vision how did he average 5 yards a carry behind two awful offensive lines when none of out other backs could even break 4 yards a carry?
Rashad Jennings career carries  
GMenLTS : 9/22/2014 12:11 pm : link
39
84
101
163
68 through 3 games


We signed him up for his prime years as a full time guy. Last year he proved worthy handling the load for Oak. Let him be your workhorse and see what happens.
RE: RE: RE: Imagine  
Greg from LI : 9/22/2014 12:15 pm : link
In comment 11876049 Jacobs27 said:
Quote:
Really? If Wilson had such horrible vision how did he average 5 yards a carry behind two awful offensive lines when none of out other backs could even break 4 yards a carry?


He had a couple of really long runs against shitty defenses. Whoop-de-damn-doo. 504 career yards and 175 of them came against the laughable 2012 Saints defense and Eagles who completely quit in week 16 that year.
Right  
dorgan : 9/22/2014 12:19 pm : link
now, we are in the midst of establishing an identity. We took a big step yesterday in that process.

Things will change as our confidence level rises. Jennings still looked strong to me at the end of the game. Still hungry.

Williams,  
oldog : 9/22/2014 12:38 pm : link
has been running carefully and protecting the ball as he gets to know the NFL. He looks competent and smart. Hillis can help and should get some work, but it is necessary to protect and encourage Jennings, give Williams room to experiment and develop, and use Hillis to spell them both as much as possible. So far, Jennings used a bit too much, and no Hillis. So, get Hillis going, continue to ramp up Williams and aim for a gradual reduction in Jennings workload to a sustainable level. There were no passes coming out of the backfield yesterday, all to WRs or TEs. Should try for a mix while keeping in mind that if it works, it don't need fixin.
Hillis  
BillyBoy8384 : 9/22/2014 12:56 pm : link
speaking of him Im surprised they dont use him in the redzone. On plays when we have the ball at the one or two yard line, why not use his toughness to barrel through into the endzone. Like we used Jacobs his rookie year.
RE: RE: what is it about Williams?  
dpinzow : 9/22/2014 3:31 pm : link
In comment 11875577 armsteadeatslittlekids said:
Quote:
In comment 11875557 I Love Clams Casino said:


Quote:


Is it that he doesn't seem to hit holes very well?




From what I could see he's not being patient. Just running full bore into where the hole hasn't formed yet. He finished his runs well the few times he found a crease. I think he'll start to find his rhythm as the offense continues to stabilize.


^^

Andre just has to get a feel for how quickly holes open and close at this level and he'll be fine
Surprised they rde him as much as they did at  
Blue21 : 9/22/2014 4:29 pm : link
the end of the game.
A long, long time ago ...  
Fpbflppt : 9/23/2014 11:43 am : link
the Cleveland Browns offensive game plan, in its entirety, read "Give the ball to Jim".
Walter Johnson pitched 320+ innings nine straight years.  
Big Blue Blogger : 9/23/2014 12:06 pm : link
I tell ya, athletes today are wimps!

Wasn't Jim Brown bigger than most of the linebackers he faced? Anyway, Brown's career high for touches was 351.

One other funny note: when Jim Brown hit Rashad's age, he had the good sense to retire and pursue a safer career.
They certainly better not lose a game with him watching from sideline  
steve in ky : 9/23/2014 12:14 pm : link
If they have some leads where he can be given some meani9ngfukl rests then fine, but IMO this team doesn't have the luxury of not using him as the game plan would dictate.

I also would think against some defenses he won't be called upon to carry the ball as many times and the numbers will balance themselves out as the season progresses.
And THAT ...  
Beezer : 9/26/2014 9:32 am : link
... is how you manage Rashad Jennings' workload.

Pass attempts? 39
Rush attempts? 38

Rashad 13-55
Jennings 15-66
Hillis 8-31
Eli and Hyno 1 each
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