talk to rest?
I think it's safe to say that when given average time he can still move fine within the pocket and make all the throws, physically.
That has been a big topic here this offseason, but I think it can be put to rest. You can say what you want about his mental ability as a QB, and I expect there will be games sooner than later when the venom will be out again, but physically, he is (as he always is) fine.
That is definitely quite a welcome sight.
Every guy that comes out these days is the better option. We have guys that would take Jameis Winston to replace Eli right now.
Quote:
There were people here saying it would be a shock if he didn't turn out to be better than Eli. Sam Bradford.
Every guy that comes out these days is the better option. We have guys that would take Jameis Winston to replace Eli right now.
Mostly Stan and he's an idiot.
The fascination with Favre here has also baffled me. i mean, you exchange Eli with favre and you pretty much would get the same results for both teams, IMO. so, what exactly is being argued?
Ironically, the guys who always tie back to Favre here want his rings to count, but then try to tell people discussing eli that rings aren't everything.
It really is a strange line of argumentation.
Eli has been to the playoffs 5 out of 10 years or 50%. 8-3 record. 2 SB wins.
I don't get why these arguments always have to be one guy saying he can do no wrong vs. another guy who thinks he's basically a JAG who got lucky a few times in big games.
He performed like an elite QB in 2011 from start to finish. Most of his other regular seasons were mixed bags. The one I felt was most misleading was 2010 where I actually thought Eli was much better than his stat line showed INT-wise. 2013 was just a flat out mess but in 2010 there were actually a good amount of perfectly thrown balls that just bounced right off a WR's hands into those of a DB. He led the league in INT's that year but probably shouldn't have.
That said, he's thrown far too many INT's in his career which I think anyone would agree with.
You have a bunch of regular seasons from him that don't really pop out. He doesn't have those 5,000+, 40 TD years.. but that's alright. He came through in some huge spots on the biggest stages and proved numerous times that although he wasn't always the greatest QB, he could elevate his play and get there when he needed to most.
He's an enigmatic QB and one who will be remembered as such. It's a guy who has had points where he's looked as good as anyone who has played the positions and games where you wondered if the backup QB could legitimately be a better option.
There's no need to prop him up into something more than he is/was and there's especially no need to tear him down and discredit the great things he did do. Just let Eli be who Eli is.
I agree with all of this. As far as the last sentence, I'd say if I'm seen as propping him up, it's usually in response to him being torn down.
I don't think Eli is Joe Montana. I've made a comparison to Elway before, and I stand by that. But when you look back, I don't think that's as glamorous as it sounds. Elway wasn't Elway until his career was done. And their career trajectory is eeirily similar.
The fascination with Favre here has also baffled me. i mean, you exchange Eli with favre and you pretty much would get the same results for both teams, IMO. so, what exactly is being argued?
Ironically, the guys who always tie back to Favre here want his rings to count, but then try to tell people discussing eli that rings aren't everything.
It really is a strange line of argumentation.
This is another thing. I can't believe people are so sure that Eli has to "prove himself" this year.
I don't think that's rooted in reality.
I think Eli will be here, barring catastrophic injury, as long as he wants to.
I don't even see a Favre-like departure where the Giants draft a high QB to groom him and nudge eli out.
I think otherwise, he'll leave on his own terms. Despite what most of the analysts suggest, the football people I've talked to don't think Eli is the root of problems.
Eli has been to the playoffs 5 out of 10 years or 50%. 8-3 record. 2 SB wins.
Yep. A Super Bowl year is much closer to the median for Eli than for others.
And the only thing that matters, ex post, is winning the Super Bowl. One and dones give you a chance, but they mean nothing in the long-run.
These last 2 weeks have been a very welcome sight. Tiny sample but I desperately needed to see Eli have a couple of games where he just looked "right" again.. and he has.
We may well miss the playoffs again this year but if Eli can keep this going and keep this offense viable, I think we can at least keep playing games that matter for a while. Which would be nice after last year.
These last 2 weeks have been a very welcome sight. Tiny sample but I desperately needed to see Eli have a couple of games where he just looked "right" again.. and he has.
We may well miss the playoffs again this year but if Eli can keep this going and keep this offense viable, I think we can at least keep playing games that matter for a while. Which would be nice after last year.
Everybody had doubts at the end of last year, for whatever the reason, but there was no denying what we saw. We may have had different reasons/ways of rationalizing what we saw and why it happened, but we all saw the same thing.
But as usual, people went really over the top in making definitive statements without letting anything play out. And now they are seeing they were wrong, or should be. Some will never concede.
Of course not. And thats part of, but not the only reason why looking at won loss records for individuals is stupid. As well as boiling careers down to a sample that makes up less than 10percent of a guys career
one of these guys is a first ballot hofer. The other is eli manning
Eli's career isn't over yet, and it's not like he's not within sniffing distance of the HOF, already.
Wrong. I said I wouldn't personally, because the allure of winning a third with him was too great. That Eli had a chance to put himself in rare air by winning a third, and trading for Luck guarantees us nothing.
I said if we needed a QB, I absolutely would love to have Luck.
If you're going to quote me, please get it right.
Very few sites do that, though.
Very few sites do that, though.
Do you have any recommended sites for these comparisons?
How is this even a factor in the discussion with Favre?
what Giants fan has this stat at the ready and uses it as some sort of knock on Eli?
This is what fuels some of my rants. In some effort to prop other guys up, there is always that veiled (or not-so veiled) shot at #10.
He won me over in game 16 against the 2007 Pats..He won me over having 45-6 record against the best teams the NFL had to offer. He "beat" (obviously a QB doesn't do this all by himself) the Number 1 and number 2 seeds in 2007 and 2011..His record against the best of the best in 2012 was rather close to what he achieved in the 2008(2007 season) playoffs..
He had the only GW last drive of the SB where a TD was NEEDED to win..He had the GW drive against the Pats yet again in SB XLVI..
As I said, if good arguments are made and are not game to game knee-jerk rections that are often seen here, I can be as objective as a Giants fanatic can be..
There isn't a QB in the league I would take over Eli if I had a championship game to win. Not one
the good thing is that sustained level of play at "greatness" is both unnecessary and a tad overrated. im sure romo, brees, rodgers, and p manning, would trade their "greatness" for another title.
To be fair, that 2011 season was one of the all-time great QB seasons by anyone who has ever played the position. He dragged us to that SB by the scruff of the neck. Otherwise, you're right, Eli hasn't put up a dominant statistical season
2009-2012 he his 60% completion percentage, 4000 or more yards (including a near 5000 yard season), 25 or more TD's every season, and save for one season was between 14-16 INT's.
That's five years of above average play statistically, even though 2008 doesn't reflect it.
he had a terrific year, dragged us to 7-7 before the run game and defense came to life. Played terrific in the postseason, I have no issue calling it one of the better playoff runs ever (didnt hurt that ne and gb were the 2 worst pass defenses in nfl history).
Great season, historic playoffs. But 2011 regular season, as awesome as it was, isnt on some short list of goat seasons
Ryan Howard is looked upon as one of the most overrated players in the 21st century because he doesnt hit for average, strikes out a lot, is not a good defender, and cant run.
Eli Manning is looked upon as one of the most overrated players in the 21st century because he throws too many INTs, cant run, is not the most accurate, and doesnt make enough expressions.
And you know what? I could give two shits about either player. Both players have been INTEGRAL parts of championship teams that I got to see and root for. Both of them work hard, rarely miss time (until Howard ruptured his achilles), and performed at the highest level when it mattered the most. Isnt that what stars are suppose to do? Play their best when it matters the most? Sure they have flaws. Sure they are both ending their careers probably in the next few years. But what they have produced can and should not be questioned, yet somehow they are always in the middle of conversation in regards of their teams failures.
Eli Manning is a 2x SB champion and MVP. He has played in one of the toughest stadiums/cities for his entire career and never missed a game. He has played with some very talented teammates who have helped him to accomplish some of his individual accomplishments (Tiki, Shockey, Burress, Smith, Cruz, Bradshaw, Jacobs, Nicks, many OL, etc...) He is a flawed played. He does not throw the perfect spiral, or the deepest ball, or the fastest ball, or even the msot accurate ball. But for 9 out of the 10 years he has been in the league, he has put us in the position to have a chance to make the playoffs, putting us there 5 times. He has won us games, he has lost us games. But regardless of the outcome, he has always had his teammates/coaches backs, never complains, and his work ethic is unquestioned.
We all know he isnt Peyton or Brady or even Rodgers. But Ive said a million times, I would take him over Brees in NY. Brees has had the luxury of playing in two of the friendliest atmospheres a QB can have. He played with probably the best offensive mind in the 21st century as well. And I think he has played what, 3 games?, in under 40 degree weather. Guys like Big Ben and Rivers are both very good QB. But do you think Ben would be the ideal fit in NY? Maybe, could be. But that isnt a given. Philip Rivers plays in a stadium that can barely sell out in 80 degree weather conditions. But people look at him as being better because he is "fiery" and plays with "passion" or whatever the hell any of that means. He had one decent playoff run in 2007, but has come up short in many games despite playing in the worst division in the NFl up until last year.
Even bringing guys like Romo, Ryan, Newton, Cutler, etc into any conversation is just a waste of time and energy. In the world of fantasy football, these guys look like gods, but when push comes to shove, they usually get shoved. Your telling me Eli has played with as talented players that Romo has? Eli never played with HOF talent like Owens, Witten, and possibly Bryant. You think Eli would like to play half his games in a dome like Ryan?
Now I am not singling out posters because everyone is entitled to their opinion and views. But the fact of the matter that we are still pointing out Eli's flaws in 2014 is just sad. I dont care if Peyton or Brady or Favre are or were better players. All I care that is when its all said and done, Eli has given us at least 2 SBs and a lifetime full of memories. And maybe some other QBs could have won more than 2 SBs with our teams. But I know there are many, many more who would have won less.
Bob, playoff record is not that simple. There are tons of factors here that you obviously disregard to push a comparison that is the height of laughable. On no where outside of a ny giant board will anyone over the age of 30 with a brain compare these guys careers like theyre remotely close to equal, and then call someone else saying eli has largely been a tick above average the dumbest thing youve read on this board. Read what you write
like I said before. The eli die hards who want to hide behind giant fandom for their never wavering support and excuse making, are the same ones to throw every non eli giant under the bus for him
like I said before. The eli die hards who want to hide behind giant fandom for their never wavering support and excuse making, are the same ones to throw every non eli giant under the bus for him
You aren't wrong, and I admit I am a huge Eli defender and hate when other team fans criticize him. Maybe it is because this is the golden era of the QB and there is so much focus on the QB position in the media. Whatever it is, you're right, but I don't care about numbers..I'll always defend the guy for his integral part in two Super Bowl victories.
Before Plax destroyed the 2008 season, Eli was orchestrating a beautifully balanced attack that had the team 10-1 despite an absolutely brutal schedule. To that point, he was completing over 62% of his passes and had 18 TDs compared to only 7 INTs, 3 of which came in that fluke MNF loss in Cleveland.
His numbers weren't gaudy, that's also the problem with basing analysis solely on statistics. He played brilliantly that year.
If you think the training wheels offense teams run with Alex Smith is at all comparable to the responsibility Eli Manning has in the Giants offense, you can't be helped.
Again, that's the problem with looking only at the stats. But have at it.
like I said before. The eli die hards who want to hide behind giant fandom for their never wavering support and excuse making, are the same ones to throw every non eli giant under the bus for him
THIS!
Quote:
Same Guys telling me victor cruz sucks are now lecturing on showing respect to players who have given this organization much
like I said before. The eli die hards who want to hide behind giant fandom for their never wavering support and excuse making, are the same ones to throw every non eli giant under the bus for him
THIS!
I'm confused...You don't think Cruz deserved criticism after last week's game? 3 key dropped passes, one which arguably changed the course of the game? You honestly think he did not deserve to catch shit for that AFTER complaining in the press about not getting the ball?
Eli was fine that year. The fact that you try to stretch that into a great year shows how much we need to stretch to find great years. Roethlisberger has that same season, no one here is going gaga. Especially if he flamed out as badly as eli did to end the year.
Meanwhile, Joe pulls out some comparison now to Alex Smith.
The more these conversations drag out, the more I see into the wisdom of what other supposed Giants fans think.
Somebody trying so hard to argue the mediocrity of the torch-carrier for a 2 Super Bowl run seems so wrong on so many levels.
but hey, the fact that a bounce off a knee and the nfl thankfully having instant replay is the only thing stopping them from having played in the same number of sbs, shows how dumb it is to boil a career down to such things