NFT: Are you glad you attended college?

glad.

But it gave me zip as far as a career and business were concerned. It aided in making me understand responsibility, but that is an absurd price to pay for that.

In comment 11877386 Big Al said:

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But my tuition was zero which made life easier.

Same here. Also, books and housing/food.

In comment 11877421 Some Fan said:

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It is a lot more important now then even 10 years ago. Art History isn't going to get you anywhere but civil engineering might.

A Liberal Arts degree is, on average, a better tool than many. I don't disagree with specialty fields such as Engineering, though. Today (and for a long time) any degree in Math or the Sciences is very useful.

Unfortunately for the thread starter, Biology is one of the least productive Sciences. The field is narrow, highly competitive, and is more influenced by contacts than many others.

today without undergrad and grad studies, so yes. But that was a few decades ago. I question the cost of today's education versus the reward. I'm sure it's there, but it may not be as high.

sometimes even a masters. Engineering, CS, Accounting, etc. Yes I am very glad I went and wouldn't be where I am without it.

But I'm not sure it's been a major factor in my professional achievements beyond getting my foot in the door 20 years ago. And had I not gone to a state school and accumulated minimal debt I may feel differently.

The collegiate system as it is now is creating a major problem and it begins with government loans. They are far to easy to get and the schools know this, which enables them to charge obscene tuition rates. Even the costs of attending a state school are out of control.

If students don't have a clear field they want to get into and they're not attending an Ivy League school I think the focus should turn towards attending the least expensive school available, including on line courses.

Sometimes I wish I was a blue collar guy like my father/brother but my father is in bad shape physically and my brother will be one day, already having a back surgery before turning 35.

Something to be said with regard to working with your hands...I did it to help pay for school and to work when I couldn't land a job based on my education level (Finance BA & MBA). Nice to actually see what you did at the end of the day (put up a fence, set up a foundation for a concrete pour, etc) vs. a stack of papers/closed laptop. My family always made a good living...you can make a good living in the trades but too many people don't want to get dirty.

My loans are basically paid off now...I have very little left to pay off and my interest rate is so low there is no reason to pay it off early.

I struggled mightily my freshman year in college and almost quit to be a union pipefitter. If I was in that situation today, give the cost of education, I might have not stayed in school.

you usually need an advanced degree.

and agree with others who say that it is tough to get ahead without a degree.

picking the degree is important. having a clear idea of career path is also important. and, internships and networking along the way is as well.

grandkids are just getting ready to hit college and I keep stressing the importance of college to them. are there alternatives - yes. college is not for everyone. but it's not like when I graduated when there were manufacturing and many other well paying jobs that did not require college.
one thing I stress to them is try and get it done in three years. Take AP courses, summer school and for credit internships (especially important for networking). no need to be there, in residence, for four years for a bachelor's degree.

college should only take 3 years and the notion that you need 4 years in order to have this "well rounded" education is an outdated notion.

pick your career wisely and learn how to manage the money you make wisely.

and don't think you made a bad move by going to college if you are still younger than 35. it takes time to get your career going.

and, you may need to get more education to get the most our of your present degree. could be grad school, could just be getting more work specific skills.

if I had a biology degree, I might think about the medical field. Nursing, PAs, and med school. growing demand and some money out there to offset the costs.

one final note, look for loan forgiveness programs.

Though I do regret the English Degree to some extent. Didn't pay off immediately - had to suffer through a stint at Enterprise Rent-A-Car, first. (I went to college so I could wash a car at 07:30 while wearing a suit?)

Passed up a higher-paying job for one that better aligned with my education and came with tuition-reimbursement, which paid for ~90% of my Masters in Information Systems. Later, my current employer, with whom I have been for over 15 years, financed my MBA.

It was tough at first, but I was lucky that my parents paid for most of college, which was much cheaper in the 80s, so I only had debt resulting from my own irresponsibility to deal with. Lived in group houses, drove a crappy car, and, for a while, worked a second job at a department store to get by, but made a life-long friend, there, and he recruited me into my current gig with a large software company.

Getting that first break was HUGE for me. It was funny - I went out to celebrate an offer for a job that didn't require a degree, and bumped into a girl I knew from college, and she said "Hey, we're looking for a technical writer", and I ended up taking that instead of a job that paid ~33% more, and I could REALLY have used the extra money at the time. I sometimes wonder how things would have worked out if I had taken the other job.

Interesting (to me) note: I've worked three "real" jobs in the 20+ years since I graduated, and all three were via friends; not sure how common that is. It's not like I was particularly popular...

I hope you get your big break soon!

I'm also a liberal arts major and I wouldn't change that either. I can learn new skills, and working in computers I will always be required to add to my skill set. However, being able to understand systems, communicate effectively, and think critically has benefited me in every phase of my career .

toward getting a job, then in many cases, it may not be worth it. If you value education as an end unto itself, then you will have a different view. It depends on what you make of it, and whether you value the process as well as the ends achieved.

i went to college to get an education. an education is worth all the gold in the world. so if you ask me if it was worth what i paid, i say i didnt pay enough...

There's plenty of practical and useful information and life experience to be learned in college, however a lot of those miscellaneous courses that provide no value in the end do add up to a pretty penny. The stated intent is to broaden your experience, which may end up being a life changing eye opener for a small minority, but for the rest of us it kind of feels like the school is saying "fuck you, pay me"

ago. In undergrad, I was an Electrical Engineering/Physics major and had a good job right at graduation. I wanted to major in something that would likely lead directly to a good job, and it did. I made some great friends and have some great memories from those times. Those were some of the best years of my life. After a few years working, I decided that engineering really wasn't for me.

After 5 years in my engineering job, I went to grad school to switch careers. That was even better! I have great memories of those times and met so many incredibly smart people (and formed a number of friendships that will definitely be lifelong). I met my wife there. That degree also led quickly to a job (I had accepted the offer about 6 months before I finished the degree) Fourteen years later, I am still in the same job and like it much more than engineering. I have been incredibly fortunate.

I can't say I have any significant regrets. At both the undergrad and grad levels, I intentionally sought out degrees that I knew would very likely lead directly to employment. If I didn't weigh those factors, I would have majored in music (sometimes I wonder how that would have turned out).

There are great opportunities in college, and unfortunately alot of it is what you make of it. Its a microcosm whose learned lessons perpare you for real life. Next time you're confronted with "dumb" courses; don't take them. Demand to get your money's worth.

It absolutely is a waste for many people who can't walk through the doors of opportunity that college may open. The biggest difference now is the stakes are higher because students carry so much more debt.

...is that concerning an Art History course, which he regarded as meaningless.

Although not definitive, it looks to me that his perception of the role of a college education is strictly as a pathway to a job, not a pathway to knowledge and broadened horizons/sensibilities.

Not getting the expected job, he feels cheated by the system when, in fact, he unwittingly cheated himself by not recognizing the purpose behind such classes.

Economics matter. That knowledge gained does have to justify the cost. If it was cheaper it would be a no-brainer.

claimed he took art history as a science major. I've got a tech degree in chemistry and a liberal arts tech degree. Never told to take art history. Maybe things are different these days, but most of the courses he listed are stuff you take as electives. methinks something doesn't pass the sniff test.

All that said, there are a couple things to consider when graduating high school: First, and most importantly, you need a job skill. There have been plenty of threads about alternatives to college in attaining a job skill. Second, there has to be a need/opening in your job skill. Doesn't do much good to get a degree in a field there's no jobs in (in your area). Also, the level at which you attained your skill. most anything that ends in ology requires more than a 4 yr degree to be anything more than a grunt. Grunt isn't a bad thing. I'm one, and I like it and make a good living. I didn't shell out 40 grand a year for 4 years to get here, though. When my first degree turned out useless, I looked around at what tech degrees were viable in the paycheck. At the time, biology degrees were a dime a dozen. Chemistry was happening, for my area. I'd have preferred biology, but I went with reality. Along with this mantra of 'go to school, get an education' was this mantra of 'you only get one life, do something you enjoy'. If the two merge, great. If you just spend a lot of money on something you can't make a living at, how enjoyable is that?

Cost: most everyone bemoans the cost of college. most everyone I know from anything resembling middle class thinks you have to go away to school, doubling your costs. I went away for a couple years, and went to a community college for a couple years. Both were decent SUNY 2 year schools (both offer 4 year degrees these days). Guess which one was more fun? You want to double your costs for fun, have at it, but don't complain about it afterwards. Rural areas a bit different, but almost every semi-urban area has options for commuter education.

which is what I will encourage my kids to do as well. Graduated in 2007 and I'm more than halfway done with my loans which only ends up being $180 a month.

I can see arguments against not "wasting" money to go to school, but IMO, unless you are going for a very specific degree, paying out of state tuition is pointless and could come with a lot of debt and nothing to show for it.

I wish everyone luck though, its a brutal job market still and kids graduating the last few years have very little options.

In comment 11877725 Crispino said:

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toward getting a job, then in many cases, it may not be worth it. If you value education as an end unto itself, then you will have a different view. It depends on what you make of it, and whether you value the process as well as the ends achieved.

The problem is that at 18 or 19 years old most of us (and I absolutely count myself in there) are poorly equipped to get the most out of college as something more than credentialing. When I started out I shunned the professors that had a rep as ballbusters, but by the time I was a senior it was pretty obvious that the ballbusters were often the best and most dedicated teachers. When it was a choice between a Thirsty Thursday and a lecture or a trip to Montreal and a weekend symposium I usually picked the wrong ones, and even when I started making better choices it was with grad school in mind rather than getting a broad-based education.

To make education available to all. Somehow its now acceptable to put aspiring students deep into debt. That not consistent with their mission and is essentially immoral.

most people who join football forums don't instantly feel comfortable sharing their life's frustrations.

~23K

If you spent 40K a year on a private school that didn't get you any further, you're already 17K in the hole.

room+board+meals was $40k for all 4 years combined. It's definitely more expensive now, but for the life of me I don't get why some of my friends went to some of the schools they did, racking up $150k of debt for essentially the same education.

No only do you have that $150k in debt, that's money you can invest elsewhere on a monthly basis so the cost is far more than $150k.

I really wish finance was a required highschool course for Juniors and Seniors.

In comment 11877753 WideRight said:

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Economics matter. That knowledge gained does have to justify the cost. If it was cheaper it would be a no-brainer.

We have a fundamental disagreement, then. I think that the "useless" courses are of equal value, sometimes greater. Not that you're wrong or I'm right, but my point was not economics but the reason(s) you go to get an education and the expectations generated by those reasons.

so I'm not sure the $$ relationship is broken. Peter is right, for sciences you usually need a Masters in this day. That is not a condemnation of college, but a fact in the job market.

and the resulting debt and lack of "golden job". So this is economics.

I agree an education is extremely valuable and virtuous. But you don't need college to get that. And that value is not measured in $$.

but the cost of living in major cities as far higher than it used to be, which is where most of the jobs are.

The housing costs in NYC, San Fran, Chicago, etc are insane. Your everyday worker is just scraping by in those cities, or they are commuting 3 hours a day if they can't afford to live close.

my high school buddy didn't go to college. Still got a reasonable job (thanks NYS). His oldest is college age a couple years ago, and decides to go out of state. Buddy thinks he owes it to him because Buddy missed out on the college fun. 2 months in, kid misses his (still in high school) girl friend, drops out, costing Daddy Big bucks, accruing no college credit. Now both kid and girl friend commute to a local private college because it's cooler than going to a SUNY school, even though the only thing the school is known for is every once in a blue moon sending a basketball team to the NCAA tournament.

Second fave is a niece who turned down scholarships to go out of state to get a 4 yr women's history degree (on her own dime). She now works at a putt-putt golf course.

No wait, my really fave is my SO's kid who gets a nice degree in accounting (also at this same private school that's big on basketball), cost the SO a ton of money, accrues significant debt (still owed closing on 20 years later), gets a good job in accounting, and gives it up to start a career as an eye tech which any high school degree can get. He's now living in my house, sponging off the SO, because apparently it's tough to make ends meet in a dead end 30K job.

I have 4 or 5 other stories where the college experience led to no greater reward. I have a bunch where it did. Moral of the story: college doesn't make you smarter. you have to make smart choices while increasing your knowledge.

In comment 11877853 WideRight said:

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and the resulting debt and lack of "golden job". So this is economics. I agree an education is extremely valuable and virtuous. But you don't need college to get that. And that value is not measured in $$.

Not get into an "I win/you lose" here, but his complaints are bound up with his expectations, which then feed the frustration he now feels.

EOM

That said I don't think you need to attend some high profile university. Getting a degree even from a local college will help you. It shows commitment to an employer and since you will most likely be interviewed by someone that has their degree they want you to have one too. Also earning a degree while in the military is good way to improve your chances for a career later. I got mine attending school on a part-time basis while serving in the Airforce. The two combined has helped my career and the military helped pay the tuition.

there's more to college than just job positioning.

to go whereever they want (if they are accepted) and not to worry about the cost. Many kids I graduated with were told "Cost is not an option". I've always thought that was flawed advice.

I made a financial decision about my school. I could have went to an out of state school that would have cost $35k/year and racked up over $100k in student loans. Instead I went to a smaller state school that offered me a scholarship. Total cost of my 4 year education (room and board) was less the $10k. I graduated with no loans. Now it is arguable that I may have gotten a better education and/or job at the other school, but I'm not sure it would have been $100k better then where I am now.

Financially, I think I made the right decision. I also met me wife in college, so I also think it was a good personal decision. Would my career be different if I went to that other school? Possibly, but I'm not sure it would have been significantly better.

...

for my degree and I paid for both my sons degrees. I felt it was my obligation to educate my kids just as my parents did for my brother and me. I feel so bad for kids graduating these days with massive debt but I'm also angry with the parents (assuming they are present)of the kids who did not plan ahead for their education.

That said yes I am glad I attended college as are both my kids. You have a college degree and that can never be taken away from you. My parents barely graduated High School and neither of their parents even went to High School. My college and later business experience helped me develop my own business which I will be selling soon for well over $1mil.

5 years is way too soon in your life to make the determination as to weather or not college was worth the time and money. If you revisit this question 5-10 years from now you may feel very different.

but I make more money than most of my friends who have completed college

Some are really good investments.

In comment 11877862 Bill in Del said:

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That said I don't think you need to attend some high profile university. Getting a degree even from a local college will help you. It shows commitment to an employer and since you will most likely be interviewed by someone that has their degree they want you to have one too. Also earning a degree while in the military is good way to improve your chances for a career later. I got mine attending school on a part-time basis while serving in the Airforce. The two combined has helped my career and the military helped pay the tuition.

Don't agree with that initial statement. You still need the required Bachelors for almost every job i've seen when I worked in staffing for almost 5 years. Sure, everyone has them now, but you really do need it for most careers.

Their are certainly outliers, but very few people in the 20-30 age range that forego a college degree will end up making out better in the long run. They key is making a wise choice with the degree and/or school.

In comment 11877889 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 11877862 Bill in Del said: Quote: That said I don't think you need to attend some high profile university. Getting a degree even from a local college will help you. It shows commitment to an employer and since you will most likely be interviewed by someone that has their degree they want you to have one too. Also earning a degree while in the military is good way to improve your chances for a career later. I got mine attending school on a part-time basis while serving in the Airforce. The two combined has helped my career and the military helped pay the tuition. Don't agree with that initial statement. You still need the required Bachelors for almost every job i've seen when I worked in staffing for almost 5 years. Sure, everyone has them now, but you really do need it for most careers. Their are certainly outliers, but very few people in the 20-30 age range that forego a college degree will end up making out better in the long run. They key is making a wise choice with the degree and/or school.

Not sure you got my point. What I was trying to say was that you need a bachelors today and is as important as a H.S. diploma was years ago.

couldn't afford it and never had a second thought about going..I've seen very successful people not attend college or even wanted to . I have ssen some with 2 majors and still working as a assistant clerk or secretary..

I finally went to college at age 45..just finished my bachelor's a few months ago and have no idea what to do with it..

To me, it's about skill level..That will sometimes trump degrees..

guess I read that wrong, my bad.

1) What major/field you want to go into
2) If you get a Masters/PH D versus a BS

If you want a technical field then you have to have one, maybe even a Masters. The general liberal arts type curriculum/degrees are a thing of the past in this new economy.

In comment 11877917 GMANinDC said:

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couldn't afford it and never had a second thought about going..I've seen very successful people not attend college or even wanted to . I have ssen some with 2 majors and still working as a assistant clerk or secretary.. I finally went to college at age 45..just finished my bachelor's a few months ago and have no idea what to do with it.. To me, it's about skill level..That will sometimes trump degrees..

GMAN congrats on your Bachelors...Earning a degree at this stage in life is definitely an accomplishment. I'm probably around the same age as you and have thought about going back for a masters but just cant get that motivated. Whether your degree helps you depends on where your at in your career. Obviously you have allot of experience in what you do. If you are looking to move up the ladder and most of your peers have a degree then you just leveled the playing field. If they don't have a degree then your one up on them. If you're not looking to move the ladder and just continue with your current position, then your degree will look real nice hanging on your wall.

In comment 11877788 Dunedin81 said:

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In comment 11877725 Crispino said: Quote: toward getting a job, then in many cases, it may not be worth it. If you value education as an end unto itself, then you will have a different view. It depends on what you make of it, and whether you value the process as well as the ends achieved. The problem is that at 18 or 19 years old most of us (and I absolutely count myself in there) are poorly equipped to get the most out of college as something more than credentialing. When I started out I shunned the professors that had a rep as ballbusters, but by the time I was a senior it was pretty obvious that the ballbusters were often the best and most dedicated teachers. When it was a choice between a Thirsty Thursday and a lecture or a trip to Montreal and a weekend symposium I usually picked the wrong ones, and even when I started making better choices it was with grad school in mind rather than getting a broad-based education.

Same here. My first two years, it was all about having a good time. I was very immature and didn't even think that a low GPA could hurt me down the line. I didn't care about that at the time. It was about girls, playing in bands, and drinking. Fortunately, I did well enough until my eyes were opened during the second semester of my third year. I was in a five-year joint program between two schools that required transferring after 3 years at the first school. My GPA was right on the border of getting accepted into the engineering school, and I just barely made it. It took a high GPA during the 2nd semester of my 3rd year to push me over the top. That scared the hell out of me and from that point forward I had a pretty high GPA. I think there is a lot to be said for some people not going to college right at 18. In my case, I had no idea what I wanted to do, so I picked the major that my father wanted. I don't regret it, but it did subsequently lead to a career change because it was clearly the wrong path for me.

In comment 11877935 UConn4523 said:

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guess I read that wrong, my bad.

No Prob...and it seems like we agree.

unless the technical expertise is directly relevant to your position, many people wind up needing a degree to get hired but the degree is necessarily in the filed in which they work.
many agencies will retrain you for what their needs are.

re: state versus private schools - all depends in the FA package. For some reason, we made out better with the private schools for our kids.

Thanks and good point..Since i'm in the IT field, is more about getting certifications tha n degrees nowadays..That's what i've been seeing lately..

The current job I am in right now, i interviewed with another company and they told me I didn't have the educational requirements. I interviewed with another compnay 2 months later and got hired for the same job!..

Go figure..

he says degrees in IT are often required but not necessary