is his limit to leading the league. For example, he may not have won a batting title. But, he finished in the top 10 ten times. He only led the league in runs once, but he finished in the top 10 twelve times, with more than half of those in the top 5. He led the league in hits twice, but had 12 top 10 finishes. 3 times in the top 10 for triples and 5 times for SB.
Without question, he's one of the all time greats. I just dislike some of the ways he's been handled by the Yankees.
Regarding his defense stats, yes, over the course of they were terrible. Particularly, over his prime when he bulked up a little. You have to remember, these advanced defensive stats weren't widely accepted by the league until past his prime. When asked to work on his lateral agility and positioning he did. He actually put together a plus defensive season in 2009, at the age of 35.
If this flaw was identified earlier in his career, I have no doubt he would have worked hard to correct it.
Yes, the only difference between the perception and reception of a deserved first ballot HOFer with crossover appeal's career and a guy who isn't even a fringe HOF candidate that had almost none is the former's ego.
Don't give a flying fuck about "crossover appeal", whatever the hell that's supposed to be. Bernie's not a Hall of Famer because he was frequently injured and his peak was too short. At his peak he was a better player than Jeter, and he was the most important player on the dynasty teams. You know, those rings that Jeter boosters are always spouting off about?
If by .285ish you mean .293, then sure. He also led the league with 49 doubles, had 20 SB, and hit 23 HRs. I would consider it on par with Jeter's 1999, even if a tad below. the point being, based on stats, you can't toss Yount aside. His BA, OBP, and OPS are a little lower than Jeter's. But, he has 9 more HRs and 100 more RBI. He has more 2Bs and twice as many 3Bs, but less hits, SBs, and runs.
Yount is actually a very good comparison for Jeter.
Jeter didn't have any other seasons that came close to his 1999, either. And I'd argue that 1983 and 1989 were also comparable when you take into account the state of offense in baseball in 1999 versus the '80s.
After that they were pretty damn even, with Jeter's consistency and durability giving him the edge. Jeter tended to be a better hitter than Bernie in the post-season. And then Jeter went on to have an entire decade's worth of success after the Dynasty, including a Championship in '09 where he was the best player on the team over the course of the season.
Bernie is underrated because injuries ruined his longevity. I hate how he is overlooked by the Yanks because of the emphasis on the "Core Four". Bernie was absolutely more important and a greater Yankee than Posada or Pettitte. But that doesn't mean Jeter's role in the Dynasty was overrated. Over the course of the Dynasty Jeter was the MVP imo with Bernie a close 2nd and Mariano 3rd (Mo jumps to #1 in the post-season). But those 3 were clearly the most important pieces and head and shoulders above the rest.
Yes, the only difference between the perception and reception of a deserved first ballot HOFer with crossover appeal's career and a guy who isn't even a fringe HOF candidate that had almost none is the former's ego.
Don't give a flying fuck about "crossover appeal", whatever the hell that's supposed to be. Bernie's not a Hall of Famer because he was frequently injured and his peak was too short. At his peak he was a better player than Jeter, and he was the most important player on the dynasty teams. You know, those rings that Jeter boosters are always spouting off about?
Jeter was massively more marketable in both national and local scales and ended up more popular among the average fans than Bernie was, with his career timed just right to coincide with a young generation's first exposure to winning Yankee baseball. You can not give a fuck about that personally or feel like your man was slighted somehow, but when a player with the better career has all that going for him, the perception of him and the reception his career gets from fans and media is going to be different, grander.
It's pretty common sense, unlike trying to chalk the differences up to merely ego issues.
the issue is he left seven years before Andy and Mo, eight before Jeter. Yankee fans of this vintage still revere Bernie, but his career predated the Yankee dynasty and ended before that fifth ring.
I think you are underestimating Bernie's career. If he could have played a little longer and stayed a little healthier, he is a sure fire HOF. His OBA and SLG are both higher, his peak years were much better, he has 27 more HRs in 4 less seaons, while having only 50 RBI less.
Go back and take a look at Bernie's numbers from 1997 to 2002 and tell me he wasn't the better player. And keep in mind, those numbers are in less than full seasons.
Bernie maintained the power despite the dip in average. But I'd still say Jeter was the better hitter in the post-season, especially after '96 which is what I was referring to. Bernie was clearly better in '96, but Jeter was more valuable over the course of the Dynasty imo.
I was always more of a Bernie fan (and a Mo fan) than a Jeter fan. So much about Jeter seemed calculated as opposed to those guys. They were legitimately humble and unassuming, whereas Jeter always struck me as a guy with a pretty big ego who played at being humble because it got him good press. And yeah, it bugs me that Bernie has frequently been overlooked in all the dynasty years nostalgia that's accompanied the retirements of Mo and Pettitte and Posada and Jeter. Bernie was a big part of the turnaround in the team's fortunes in the '90s. He didn't have the good fortune to arrive on a contender - he had to struggle on the crap teams in 1991 and 1992. He was the cornerstone of rebuilding the Yankees and he generally gets treated like an afterthought.
I understand and disagree. I think Bernie was the best and perhaps most underrated Yankee of the dynasty.
I think the Core Four getting repeated ad nausea over the last few years as the 4 guys were getting close to retirement chafed a lot of Yankee fans older than 30 because Bernie was also a home grown talent and he was, in many eyes, the most important and best Yankee over the span of the dynasty.
Bernie was special to us because he was part of the group that first gave us hope in 1993-95. It'll always break my heart that Donnie didn't get to be a part of the dynasty, but Bernie did. He was the one common link from the bad times to the great times.
I think you are underestimating Bernie's career. If he could have played a little longer and stayed a little healthier, he is a sure fire HOF. His OBA and SLG are both higher, his peak years were much better, he has 27 more HRs in 4 less seaons, while having only 50 RBI less.
Go back and take a look at Bernie's numbers from 1997 to 2002 and tell me he wasn't the better player. And keep in mind, those numbers are in less than full seasons.
I'm not underestimating him or his contributions. He was a very good player, an integral part if championships, but you can't if or but things that never happened either.
He ended up with a career that doesn't even put him in any real fringe HOF debates. That's reality and it's not even a harsh one, as the vast majority of players to ever play the game would have loved to have his reality as theirs.
I went to Paul O'Neill Day at the Stadium this year and was absolutely disgusted when I didn't see Bernie or even hear a mere mention of Bernie from O'Neill.
I totally think he was underrated. I think Jeter/Bernie/Mariano were the 3 most important pieces on those Dynasty teams by far. I really have no problem with any of those 3 guys being considered the MVP. Personally I'd go Jeter for everything he brought to the table, but Mariano's post-season dominance and Bernie's pure hitting ability both give them strong cases.
I really appreciate what Bernie meant for those Dynasty teams, but I just think it's crazy to insinuate that he was head and shoulders more important than Jeter during those years. Jeter was arguably the best player in baseball during the '98-'99 span when the Yanks Dynasty peaked. He should've won the MVP in '99 and he was nearly as good in '98. Jeter was actually underrated during those years because the roided-out HR hitters got all the love.
Jorge Posada is one of the 10-15 greatest hitters at his position Â
but he didn't really have his first great season until 2000. He may have been the MVP of that 2000 team but over the course of the Dynasty he just wasn't on that level.
He was a Great Catcher but I'd take Bernie over Posada if we're just comparing those two. Both guys are in the Hall of Very Good but just short of the Hall of Fame.
Donnie's 1995 ALDS homer - greatest non-title Yankees moment for me. I've probably watched this video a thousand times and I still get goosebumps every time. I've never actually cried tears of joy in my life....except for that moment. Those who didn't live through it can't really know what that felt like, to see Donnie have that moment after all the years of sitting home in October, the years of losing 90+ games, the years of his back betraying him and stealing his power away from him. He had waited 14 years for that moment and he gave it everything he had, bad back or not. O'Neill once said that Mattingly told him before the series that he was going to retire after the season so he would hold nothing back, and in the course of that series his back hurt him so badly that he couldn't even sit on the flight back from Seattle after it was over.
And I'll forever hate the goddamned Mariners and that little fucking weasel Joey Cora who was out of the baseline and should have been called out. Link - ( New Window )
just says how great a player he was. Was he beyond fortunate to play in a Yankee uniform surrounded by talent and get to the playoffs yearly ? He is a blessed man
that was awesome. He skirts the main aspects of Jeter's legacy entirely to support his position, but it was very entertaining.
The media circle-jerks everyone so THEY can make money on the backs of people who actually acheived or strove to achieve something. They have and will always overdo it.
Best SS in Yankees history and top 5 in baseball history. Anyone that says otherwise better have lived over a hundred years and watched baseball throughout.
WAR - wins above replacement?
how about AFE (adjusting for era)? What would Jeter have done if he had taken PEDs? What would Banks have done if he had played in NYC in the 1990s? How long would it have taken MLB to ban Ruth for life for gambling?
So this discussion has inspired me to watch some Bernie Williams highlights on You Tube (surprising lack of some great moments, but still get goosebumps recalling some of the October magic). I always loved Bernie, my first and last genuine favorite player growing up. I agree with most of what has been said here, and I believe Bernie was far more valuable than he gets credit for.
Every catcher who has Posada's HRs, RBIs, and doubles is in the Hall of Fame (or will be when Pudge makes it). It's not a position that one can merely accumulate stats. That's why a catcher with Posada's numbers are exceedingly rare in the history of this sport.
I was at the Stadium for that moment. It is my single favorite live sports moment. My friend and I were literally in the last row of the upper deck and after Mattingly went yard, you truly could feel the entire stadium shaking. The announcer was right when he said hold on to the roof.
That entire series was vintage Mattingly. His new leg kick, thanks to Sierra, had him playing like his old self for the month of September. He really out everything he had left into that stretch run and post season.
and think he deserves some credit for the Yankee run after he left. But, he lost that series by leaving Strawberry on the bench for a really struggling Dion James and leaving Cone in too long.
You know, I never heard O'Neill say that, but I believe it. For a few years, that stretch run had me believing Mattingly could play a little more. I never really thought he knew he was done and laid everything on the line. Then again, he always played all out.
that Jeffrey Maier...Bernie was the one who won it with a monster HR in the 11th. It was one of the most impressive right handed HRs I've ever seen in the stadium.
Jeter was a great Yankee, a great ball player, and a sure HOF guy Â
but he's not the greatest player ever. In fact MLB has been around so long I'm not sure anyone can make that claim. However if I have to try and pick Jeter is not someone that would be up there. I'd say top 100 of alltime, maybe top 50, which is great, but not near the top.
how can anyone have watched these two guys on the same team for all of the years and reached the conclusion that ARod is better then Jeter?
Arod came here at the peak of his career and was about to be handed greatest of all time status. there is just no excuse for what his career turned into and that was before the juiccing came out.
what a joke.
if ARod proved anything about his time here in NY is that he doesnt deserve to carry Jeters jock strap.
spare me the regular season stats and accolades. who cares about a HR blast in 5-2 game in july against the brewers when you cant foul tip a baseball in October?
how can anyone have watched these two guys on the same team for all of the years and reached the conclusion that ARod is better then Jeter?
Arod came here at the peak of his career and was about to be handed greatest of all time status. there is just no excuse for what his career turned into and that was before the juiccing came out.
what a joke.
if ARod proved anything about his time here in NY is that he doesnt deserve to carry Jeters jock strap.
spare me the regular season stats and accolades. who cares about a HR blast in 5-2 game in july against the brewers when you cant foul tip a baseball in October?
aRod wont be getting a farewell tour. believe me.
ARod may be very unlikable, and his reputation is stained, but let's not say absurd things here. Alex Rodriguez was a far better baseball player than Derek Jeter. They hit for similar average and OBP (Jeter higher average, AROd higher OBP), but the power gap between them was astronomical. While Jeter stole more bases (358 to 322), ARod was the more efficient theif.
And when it comes to defense, they weren't even in the same ball park. ARod was widely considered the best DEFENSIVE short stop during his prime (up there with Vizquel and Adam Everett depending which season you are talking about). Jeter is considered by many to have accumulated the most negative fielding at the position (due to how long he played there).
Their postseason lines?
Jeter: .308/.374/.465 for a wRC+ of 121
AROD: .263/.369/.464 for a wRC+ of 119
So for a season's worth of postseason play by Jeter, his offensive production is virtually the same (with more singles compared with ARod's walks) as ARod who has about a half a season of postseason sample size.
And that doesn't even consider that Jeter's postseason sample covers his entire career whereas ARod's sample misses a good number of his prime years because he only made the postseason twice as a regular player before coming to the Yankees in his 11th season.
Again, hate on ARod all you want, but he and Jeter were on completely different levels of production.
And while Arod has been busted for PEDs, I don't see anyone taking guys like Aaron, Schmidt, and Ruth out of the pantheon of elites for using PEDs either.
Celebrate his career for what it was and that's all there is to it.
As far as olberman is concerned, he's a sour old douchebag who can't stand the idea that someone is getting more attention than he is. He's thinks he improves himself by dragging down some one in the current limelight.
Olberman failed spectacularly in his chosen life's work and earned a reputation as a despicable person from those he worked with, nevermind his audience. Here comes Jeter, a class act that olberman could only dream of being, and olberman has to piss on Jeter's parade.
RE: The only thing that annoys me though about Jeter's sendoff Â
Most who follow the Yanks know i was not a huge Jeter fan but i did read in some book somewhere that when Jeter came up the years of media influence on the team given the carte blanche Stenbrenner gave to making the organization politicized and stressful via the media was a deliberate targeted improvement Jeter and others set out to change. The media and the coaches and players who played footsie with the media made it a tough place for the other 20 players and their families. For 20 years pre and post season so about 200 games...Jeter said nothing despite being interviewed before and after and between games. Thats over 8000 interviews in which no matter what the emotion or fatigue or cleverness or annoyance of the questioner..he said really nothing. As an act of discipline to minimize pressure in the locker room of the team that had been a 20 year media circus. That makes him a huge intangible ingredient.
Does that really ease the lockerroom for others? I would think it means other guys will field the same difficult questions in an attempt for the reporters to get an answer. That's not a knock on Jeter; just an observation. He acted that way because it was easier on him or because he felt an obligation to the team and organization not to provide any press worthy information, good or bad. Whatever the reason, it worked for him.
Of course it does. Part of the lessons Mattingly passed on was the need for one good player to "take on" the everyday steady role of answering questions.
One established to reporters on deadline that a fan favorite would steadily answer they go fill space rather than run around trying to pester other players to interrupt their pre or post game routines.
Its out their to read Matt...soon as Steinbrenner was on leave and before Levine the Yankee players got larger inner off limits clubhouse rooms they could hide in and could say things like..."sorry ...I gotta stretch pre game or shower after and get out...but Jeter seems to have a crowd around him.
I did not make it up Matt...I read it...my guess it was a book by Olney or Verducci...but it was in the 90's so beats me....I just found it interesting. What was interesting is that it was a deliberate strategy the inner core of the transition players from Mattingly to Jeter figured out. Tino, Boggs and Posada were a big part of it as they mistrusted the media and the obligations to media a ton.
is this news? Jeter is not Babe Ruth. So. He's a great Â
player and a Hall of Famer. I don't think anyone who knows about baseball would say he's the greatest player of all time but so what? He's been a great player and better citizen. I'm priveleged to have watched him for 20 years and have had him as a role model to my son.
Add it all together—the longevity, the doubles power, his pesky and opportunistic base running, the championships, the selfishness and bad defense, all the projected virtue and vice—and you get something like a lower-grade, non-malignant version of Pete Rose. Baseball Reference calculates that the player whose career most closely resembles Jeter's is Craig Biggio of the Houston Astros.
Biggio retired seven years ago, with 3,060 hits and 1,844 runs scored. Jeter currently has 3,461 and 1,922, respectively, but Biggio had more doubles, home runs, and stolen bases. This year, in his second year on the Hall of Fame ballot, Biggio got 74.8 percent of the vote, missing induction by two votes. He will almost certainly make it next time around; no one really objects to the notion that a player like Craig Biggio belongs in the Hall of Fam
in that they carved out HOF careers as non-power hitters. But Jeter was better, and clearly so. And it becomes a joke of a comparison when you include their post-season performance.
He's closer to Biggio than he is to DiMaggio, and yea I guess that makes him overrated because so many Yanks fans consider him this generation's DiMaggio. But to try and act like him and Biggio had nearly identical careers is just dishonest.
Regarding his defense stats, yes, over the course of they were terrible. Particularly, over his prime when he bulked up a little. You have to remember, these advanced defensive stats weren't widely accepted by the league until past his prime. When asked to work on his lateral agility and positioning he did. He actually put together a plus defensive season in 2009, at the age of 35.
If this flaw was identified earlier in his career, I have no doubt he would have worked hard to correct it.
Nope. Yount's 1982 was better.
Don't give a flying fuck about "crossover appeal", whatever the hell that's supposed to be. Bernie's not a Hall of Famer because he was frequently injured and his peak was too short. At his peak he was a better player than Jeter, and he was the most important player on the dynasty teams. You know, those rings that Jeter boosters are always spouting off about?
Jeters OPS was 989 in 1999 better than Any season Yount had...
Robin Yount had a 285ish average in 1980 and his 1989 season anywhere near Jeters 1999.
1982 is Younts only comparable season
Yount is actually a very good comparison for Jeter.
Bernie is underrated because injuries ruined his longevity. I hate how he is overlooked by the Yanks because of the emphasis on the "Core Four". Bernie was absolutely more important and a greater Yankee than Posada or Pettitte. But that doesn't mean Jeter's role in the Dynasty was overrated. Over the course of the Dynasty Jeter was the MVP imo with Bernie a close 2nd and Mariano 3rd (Mo jumps to #1 in the post-season). But those 3 were clearly the most important pieces and head and shoulders above the rest.
Jeter: .308/.374/.465 in 158 games, 20 homers, 111 runs
Pretty much even.
Quote:
Yes, the only difference between the perception and reception of a deserved first ballot HOFer with crossover appeal's career and a guy who isn't even a fringe HOF candidate that had almost none is the former's ego.
Don't give a flying fuck about "crossover appeal", whatever the hell that's supposed to be. Bernie's not a Hall of Famer because he was frequently injured and his peak was too short. At his peak he was a better player than Jeter, and he was the most important player on the dynasty teams. You know, those rings that Jeter boosters are always spouting off about?
Jeter was massively more marketable in both national and local scales and ended up more popular among the average fans than Bernie was, with his career timed just right to coincide with a young generation's first exposure to winning Yankee baseball. You can not give a fuck about that personally or feel like your man was slighted somehow, but when a player with the better career has all that going for him, the perception of him and the reception his career gets from fans and media is going to be different, grander.
It's pretty common sense, unlike trying to chalk the differences up to merely ego issues.
Jeter: .308/.374/.465 in 158 games, 20 homers, 111 runs
Pretty much even.
Stolen bases 18 for Jeter vs. 8 for Bernie (each 5 CS) but Bernie 80 RBIs vs Jeter 61. So yeah, pretty comparable.
Go back and take a look at Bernie's numbers from 1997 to 2002 and tell me he wasn't the better player. And keep in mind, those numbers are in less than full seasons.
I think the Core Four getting repeated ad nausea over the last few years as the 4 guys were getting close to retirement chafed a lot of Yankee fans older than 30 because Bernie was also a home grown talent and he was, in many eyes, the most important and best Yankee over the span of the dynasty.
Go back and take a look at Bernie's numbers from 1997 to 2002 and tell me he wasn't the better player. And keep in mind, those numbers are in less than full seasons.
I'm not underestimating him or his contributions. He was a very good player, an integral part if championships, but you can't if or but things that never happened either.
He ended up with a career that doesn't even put him in any real fringe HOF debates. That's reality and it's not even a harsh one, as the vast majority of players to ever play the game would have loved to have his reality as theirs.
I totally think he was underrated. I think Jeter/Bernie/Mariano were the 3 most important pieces on those Dynasty teams by far. I really have no problem with any of those 3 guys being considered the MVP. Personally I'd go Jeter for everything he brought to the table, but Mariano's post-season dominance and Bernie's pure hitting ability both give them strong cases.
I really appreciate what Bernie meant for those Dynasty teams, but I just think it's crazy to insinuate that he was head and shoulders more important than Jeter during those years. Jeter was arguably the best player in baseball during the '98-'99 span when the Yanks Dynasty peaked. He should've won the MVP in '99 and he was nearly as good in '98. Jeter was actually underrated during those years because the roided-out HR hitters got all the love.
He was a Great Catcher but I'd take Bernie over Posada if we're just comparing those two. Both guys are in the Hall of Very Good but just short of the Hall of Fame.
And I'll forever hate the goddamned Mariners and that little fucking weasel Joey Cora who was out of the baseline and should have been called out.
Link - ( New Window )
The media circle-jerks everyone so THEY can make money on the backs of people who actually acheived or strove to achieve something. They have and will always overdo it.
Best SS in Yankees history and top 5 in baseball history. Anyone that says otherwise better have lived over a hundred years and watched baseball throughout.
WAR - wins above replacement?
how about AFE (adjusting for era)? What would Jeter have done if he had taken PEDs? What would Banks have done if he had played in NYC in the 1990s? How long would it have taken MLB to ban Ruth for life for gambling?
Haters gotta hate....media's gotta print.
That being said, the You Tube exploration led me to this, so, fuck you guys for ruining my afternoon.
Oh My Goodness Gracious - ( New Window )
That entire series was vintage Mattingly. His new leg kick, thanks to Sierra, had him playing like his old self for the month of September. He really out everything he had left into that stretch run and post season.
You know, I never heard O'Neill say that, but I believe it. For a few years, that stretch run had me believing Mattingly could play a little more. I never really thought he knew he was done and laid everything on the line. Then again, he always played all out.
The Yankees RBI leader also will not even hit 80. When was the last time the Yankees didn't have at least one batter with 100 RBI?
Arod came here at the peak of his career and was about to be handed greatest of all time status. there is just no excuse for what his career turned into and that was before the juiccing came out.
what a joke.
if ARod proved anything about his time here in NY is that he doesnt deserve to carry Jeters jock strap.
spare me the regular season stats and accolades. who cares about a HR blast in 5-2 game in july against the brewers when you cant foul tip a baseball in October?
aRod wont be getting a farewell tour. believe me.
Arod came here at the peak of his career and was about to be handed greatest of all time status. there is just no excuse for what his career turned into and that was before the juiccing came out.
what a joke.
if ARod proved anything about his time here in NY is that he doesnt deserve to carry Jeters jock strap.
spare me the regular season stats and accolades. who cares about a HR blast in 5-2 game in july against the brewers when you cant foul tip a baseball in October?
aRod wont be getting a farewell tour. believe me.
ARod may be very unlikable, and his reputation is stained, but let's not say absurd things here. Alex Rodriguez was a far better baseball player than Derek Jeter. They hit for similar average and OBP (Jeter higher average, AROd higher OBP), but the power gap between them was astronomical. While Jeter stole more bases (358 to 322), ARod was the more efficient theif.
And when it comes to defense, they weren't even in the same ball park. ARod was widely considered the best DEFENSIVE short stop during his prime (up there with Vizquel and Adam Everett depending which season you are talking about). Jeter is considered by many to have accumulated the most negative fielding at the position (due to how long he played there).
Their postseason lines?
Jeter: .308/.374/.465 for a wRC+ of 121
AROD: .263/.369/.464 for a wRC+ of 119
So for a season's worth of postseason play by Jeter, his offensive production is virtually the same (with more singles compared with ARod's walks) as ARod who has about a half a season of postseason sample size.
And that doesn't even consider that Jeter's postseason sample covers his entire career whereas ARod's sample misses a good number of his prime years because he only made the postseason twice as a regular player before coming to the Yankees in his 11th season.
Again, hate on ARod all you want, but he and Jeter were on completely different levels of production.
And while Arod has been busted for PEDs, I don't see anyone taking guys like Aaron, Schmidt, and Ruth out of the pantheon of elites for using PEDs either.
As far as olberman is concerned, he's a sour old douchebag who can't stand the idea that someone is getting more attention than he is. He's thinks he improves himself by dragging down some one in the current limelight.
Olberman failed spectacularly in his chosen life's work and earned a reputation as a despicable person from those he worked with, nevermind his audience. Here comes Jeter, a class act that olberman could only dream of being, and olberman has to piss on Jeter's parade.
I don't think this is Bernie's style. I beleieve if it was offered he would have turned it down.
Jeter never demanded the limelight but he never shied away either.
Pure speculation on my part about both of them.
One established to reporters on deadline that a fan favorite would steadily answer they go fill space rather than run around trying to pester other players to interrupt their pre or post game routines.
Its out their to read Matt...soon as Steinbrenner was on leave and before Levine the Yankee players got larger inner off limits clubhouse rooms they could hide in and could say things like..."sorry ...I gotta stretch pre game or shower after and get out...but Jeter seems to have a crowd around him.
I did not make it up Matt...I read it...my guess it was a book by Olney or Verducci...but it was in the 90's so beats me....I just found it interesting. What was interesting is that it was a deliberate strategy the inner core of the transition players from Mattingly to Jeter figured out. Tino, Boggs and Posada were a big part of it as they mistrusted the media and the obligations to media a ton.
Biggio retired seven years ago, with 3,060 hits and 1,844 runs scored. Jeter currently has 3,461 and 1,922, respectively, but Biggio had more doubles, home runs, and stolen bases. This year, in his second year on the Hall of Fame ballot, Biggio got 74.8 percent of the vote, missing induction by two votes. He will almost certainly make it next time around; no one really objects to the notion that a player like Craig Biggio belongs in the Hall of Fam
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He's closer to Biggio than he is to DiMaggio, and yea I guess that makes him overrated because so many Yanks fans consider him this generation's DiMaggio. But to try and act like him and Biggio had nearly identical careers is just dishonest.