Is it Burress? Sustained success would have to be Toomer, but Burress IMO was the most talented I've very seen play for the Giants. Granted I only started watching in 1993.
Burress had the most unique combination of size, speed, and hands I've seen in a Giants uniform.
But Victor Cruz has done things I've seen few players, let alone Giants, do on a football field.
Toomer was underrated outside of NY, ran great routes, was a wizard on the sideline, and had good hands, and stayed healthy, meaning it's hard to see any current Giant surpassing him in production, even Cruz, he'd need like 5 years of 75 catches to pass him in receptions.
It's a smaller group to work with than most franchises
No one from the Parcells era (or the dark ages). Before that, Aaron Thomas, Shofner, Gifford, Homer Jones. After that, Toomer, Burress, Nicks, Cruz. The best at his best, Burress. The best in team history probably Jones.
I thought that Nicks would go down as our most talented and productive receiver after the 2011 Super Bowl season. When he destroyed Talib (Tampa) in 2012, I thought he was well on his way. Too bad that injuries (coupled with something else?) took their toll on him.
Yes, he probably wasn't the most physically talented in our team history, but he had something special whenever he caught a pass.
Ray Flaherty and Red Badgro were unusually talented for their
era, which was the early dawn of the passing game. They were the fastest tandem in the league and both played rugged defense as well. They both began their careers before statistics were officially recorded, but are enshrined, and Flaherty was the first player in North American professional sports to have his number retired. Not a bad distinction!
Toomer and Hilliard both suffered skill-diminishing injuries as rookies, so we'll never know how good they might have been. Toomer adjusted, and went on to a great career.
Over the course of Burress's four seasons here, we got glimpses of the unstoppable juggernaut he should have been. He fell short of Megatron-class in two areas: straight-ahead speed (4.59 40 at the Combine) and everything from the neck up.
and probably had the most dominant run of 3 and a half seasons. Nicks in the 2011 playoffs was the best run of 4 games I have ever had a Giant's WR have. for a whole season Cruz had the best season I have ever seen a Giants WR have in 2011 with home run after home run. That 99 yd catch vs. the Jets is right up there with 4th and 17/Bavaro carrying half the niner team with him as the 3 biggest regular season receptions in modern Giants history. That all having been said I think its between Cruz/Plax. I'll go with Plax because week in week out he took on the other team's best corners and won the 1 on 1 battles. That tour'deforce performance in the '07 NFC championship game where he absolutely undressed GB's pro bowl corners was sick.
Since the question is talented - and not productivity -
At this point I'm surprised 3/4s of the responses here aren't Victor Cruz.
His 2011 season alone is unparalleled. I think there is a stat that's something like... He has 7 TDs of 60 yards or more. Even though he's only played 3+ seasons, that's good for 3rd in NFL history behind Randy Moss and Jerry Rice.
He also had the best season by a Giants WR in a super bowl season. And once we have this offense in gear (which seems close) it looks like he's ready to pick up right there again. I understand being gunshy after seeing Nicks fall off the proverbial cliff, but I feel confident in it being Cruz by a long shot.
Most talented since I've been watching (intently anyway)
was a lot more talented than he ever showed, just that he never lived up to his potential. Cruz on the other hand seems to overachieve.
Not a knock on Cruz, that's how you get ahead in life, more lamenting what could have been if that other idiot had ever managed to get his head on straight.
IIRC still holds the NFL record for average yards per catch- this in an era when WRs could be mugged down the entire field.
IMO if he were playing today, he'd be the LT of WRs. I guess you could say that about a lot of WRs from the 50s and 60s- Del Shofner IIRC ran the 100 in 9.7, for example
Those of us that saw Homer, knew he was not famous for running precise routes....he also had dropped a few....but what he had was flat out blazing speed.....if he caught a pass in stride, no one was going to catch him....
Shoftner, was an amazing talent.....from '61-'63, he was flat out unreal.....but I still haven't forgiven him for that dropped pass in the Bears game...
Amani holds most of the Giant receiving records, because he managed to hang around longer than most....while a number one on our team, he would have been a number two on most others....
Nicks looked like he could be something special....but every time he came down awkwardly, you wondered if he was going to get back up....injuries took their toll on him, and I think he reduced his play/effort, to protect himself, and extend his career...
Plax could have been even better, if not for the space between his ears.....
Gifford was a converted halfback, after the hit....I never saw him play when he was a two way player(running back and receiver)....he had just two good seasons as a receiver after the hit...
It's sad that, these are really, the only "great" receivers the Giants have ever had.....they were not known for drafting or trading for great receivers, from the mid 60's on....
Gifford's abilities. Other than LT he was the greatest player the Giants ever had.
To be fair, my list is based specifically on who I watched as a fan. I personally am not under rating Gifford (or any other WR before the early 80's), I never saw him play except for a few highlights. He may or may not have been more talented than leg shooter.
Shofner had the best combination of talent, speed, and discipline...before he had a run of injuries beginning in 1964 look at his numbers with the Rams and Giants.
Modern era: 1950 onwards based on talent alone:
Jones
Shofner
Burress
Toomer
Cruz
Honorable Mention
Bob Schnelker - listed as WR before the term tight end was used, but more of a TE, slow but good size and a precise route runner.
Kyle Rote - when he became a full time receiver his numbers went up, early injuries in his career didn't help.
Frank Gifford - was a pro bowl FL, but only played there 3 seasons at the end of his career.
Joe Morrison - deceptive but he was needed too often at HB.
Aaron Thomas - hybrid TE/WR in a receivers' body an era when most quality TE's fit the mold Mackey, Ditka, Smith.
Clifton McNeil - had one good season then disappeared.
Mile Sherrard - looked dominant and the Giants offense unstoppable until he was hurt yet again.
Hakeem Nicks - what could have been, size, hands made up for a lack of top end speed.
Solid:
Lionel Manual
Stephen Baker
Mark Ingram
Chris Calloway
Ike Hilliard
Ones that got away:
Bobby Joe Conrad traded
Don Maynard waived
Buddy Dial waived
Ed McCaffrey waived
I think Plaxico was easily the most talented WR. And if he didn't have his head up his butt most of the time his statistics would probably be much better than they were.
I think what Nicks did in the 2011 playoffs trumps the best accomplishments of Cruz and Plax
I'm too young to know anything about some of those older names mentioned
Cruz is highly productive and has that special wiggle after the catch but I think Plax and Nicks both routinely made much more impressive catches with defenders draped all over them. And they both made plays after the catch as well.
To some extent, it was, in the sense that he will never repeat it. He does have a wonderful "knack for YAC", but that season was ridiculous. He benefited from having Nicks at his very best on the other side - which meant weaker coverage and more room to make moves after the catch - and some truly awful tackling by the Jets, Eagles and others.
As for overall "talent", Cruz lacks the hands of a Nicks or Toomer. Lastly, in rating "talent" it's hard to get past the fact that he wasn't drafted, regardless of the circumstances.
If he would have played under the same rules as most of the other guys being mentioned had played under his stats would reflect that to a greater extent.
but based on what I've read, I think Shofner is probably the most talented. And Homer Jones was up there because of his speed.
In my time as far as pure "talent" goes, I'd go with Nicks. Plax had the sheer size advantage but Nicks had a huge catch radius and better hands (although both dropped plenty of passes). I feel like Nicks was a more talented route runner and got open easier.
As great as Plax was and Cruz has been, the 2 greatest receiving performances I've seen from a Giant WR are Nicks vs. Arizona and Nicks vs. Tampa Bay. Nicks was untouchable those 2 games. And as great as Plax's NFC Championship Game was against the Packers, Nicks was even better against the Packers in 2011.
It's a shame how Nicks is viewed here now because of the way he seemingly quit on the team last year. But he was an absolute beast and imo had a gear that not even Plax had.
Homer Jones was better than Plax. Both of them made me nuts with lapses in effort and concentration. Cruz does not need to do much more than remain the same player he has been through the end of his current contract to own most of the Giant receiver records. Receiver has been a historically weak position for the Giants
Nicks definitely deserves some credit for being a very talented receiver. Wish he didn't develop the issues he did. It seems like (maybe because of injury? Who knows...) he just lost his desire.
Back in the day the WR's had nowhere near the athletic ability the WR's have now.
Id say Plaxico bc him and Eli were great together and he was very dominating. Anything in his area he was going up and coming down with the ball. Amazing catches. Great big target for Eli to just loft a pass his way, if he was one v one, Plax always won.
But for overall career...the well dressed Amani Toomer....didnt have to worry about him dropping a pass,was great at TD's, first down's, toe tapping. He was probably one of the best WR's to ever keep his feet in boundsalong with Chris Carter. He invented the toe drag(not really) but made it a common thing to do. Made it so that all WR's had to make that part of what they bring to a team, the ability to be able to do it every Sunday. Also a classy guy. Wouldnt sabotage a season by bringing a glock to a club either. Had to throw that in there bc that was a killer for our repeat chances in 08. AMANI TOOMER
It has to be a current WR
BillyBoy8384 : 10:57 am : link : reply
Back in the day the WR's had nowhere near the athletic ability the WR's have now
Many of the wr's who are successful in the NFL today would struggle mightily having to fight through all the grabs, bumps and hits in order to get open if they had to play when contact was allowed until the pass was in the air.
Obviously many would be successful in any era but for many others their game would shrink without being allowed to simply run free.
He had to carry the load during some very lean years without much talent around him and his stats and reputation probably suffered because of it. But I don't think he was as talented as some of the other WR's the Giants have had over the years. He certainly was the best during his tenure and was the one threat we had at the WR position during that time.
The list is not as short as some think it is. Del Shofner must be on this list, Homer Jones not only should be on this list, but an argument can be made that he should lead that list. Toomer is another player that makes the list, Lionel Manuel is a player that makes the list, Hakeem Nicks also a player that makes the list, Plaxico Burress is another guy that makes the list. Steve Smith and cruz also make it.
In my opinion, if I had to choose a starting lineup right now, I say Burress and Homer Jones are my wideouts, and Cruz would be my slot reciever, in the old days they were called Flanker backs. At tight end I would put Mark Bavaro, with Bob Tucker and Shockey as the back ups.
The second string would have Del Shofner and Amani Toomer as the wideouts and Steve Smith in the slot. Just one dummy's opinion. I would have Eli, YA Title and Simms as my 3 QB's. In the biggest game and on the biggest stage I have to put Eli as my starter, no doubt about that.
...would cast my ballot for Toomer if Gifford isn't going to be included in the WR group,otherwise Gifford. Aaron Thomas was underrated/Del Shofner may have been a better acquisition than Tittle - Shofner opened the playing field up which allowed Tittle to utilize all of his options. The Giants have had some very good WRs in their time. Homer Jones was a fun player,a speed demon with some ability - without him we don't acquire Ron Johnson. Walker Gillette and Jimmy Robinson played on bad teams but were talented guys. We are still leaving out a bunch of others. Cruz has a chance to be THAT guy. Beckham? Good topic,Dave.
better than Toomer, Burress, Gray, Jones, Shofner. I would rate Toomer second and Gray or Burress third. Simms said of Gray, "Nobody can get open like Ernest". Madden once said of Burress, "In one on one coverage, Plaxico Burress is open on every play."
To me, plays like these are underrated and remarkable (and I'm only referring to from a physical ability standpoint... I know no one underrates the importance of the first one). My answer to the OP's question stands because of moves like this.
We are talking about talent, right? You can not defend against that.
Honestly, I'd say Burress was the most talented, but Nicks was definitely had better production. Still, Plax's game in GB...ask Al Harris about that beatdown he gave him.
he didn't always bring his "A" game. Nicks was close but less physically imposing than Burress and, as we now know, he didn't always bring his "A" game either.
If you go back to the 1950s and 1960s, Homer Jones was physically dominant but not necessarily the most talented receiver (not good hands). Morrison was a grinder. Shofner was smooth but not physical. Gifford was very good and pretty talented but I have to go with Kyle Rote from that era. That guy was a great college RB who was robbed of his speed by injuries but he was as good a receiver as you will ever see. He was absolutely loved by his teammates as half the team named at least one of their kids after him.
If you believe in an efficient market, Plax and Ike have to rank high.
I believe Hilliard was the highest pick the Giants have ever spent on a WR. Although he may have been a slight reach at #7, he was enormously gifted. Unfortunately, the injury in his second game left a permanent mark. Plax was chosen #8, by the Steelers.
I hope Beckham earns a place on this list. As the #12 pick, he should.
Good gravy, when he was on, he was a joy to behold. Catches in traffic, sideline, could get some serious YAC , blessed with huge mitts. Awesome player. But then, the Bucs game fucked him up .
6'2', 215, ran a 9.2 100 yard dash, and had great hands. Tarkenton absolutely couldn't overthrow him, and he'd regularly split the safety and CB on short slants that he'd take in for long TDs. The most physically talented WR we've had in my time rooting for the team, and that goes back to the '50s.
Pure talent alone I still think Mario Manningham coming out of Michigan is most talented I've seen in a generation.
I would have loved to see a healthy, young Manningham in a single read offense. It's easy to say he wasn't smart enough for Gilbride's system which I think isn't true. Some guys can't do and think at the same time, which looked pretty obvious with him. Hell I can't walk and talk at the same time.
Those of us that saw Homer, knew he was not famous for running precise routes....he also had dropped a few....but what he had was flat out blazing speed.....if he caught a pass in stride, no one was going to catch him....
Shoftner, was an amazing talent.....from '61-'63, he was flat out unreal.....but I still haven't forgiven him for that dropped pass in the Bears game...
Amani holds most of the Giant receiving records, because he managed to hang around longer than most....while a number one on our team, he would have been a number two on most others....
Nicks looked like he could be something special....but every time he came down awkwardly, you wondered if he was going to get back up....injuries took their toll on him, and I think he reduced his play/effort, to protect himself, and extend his career...
Plax could have been even better, if not for the space between his ears.....
Gifford was a converted halfback, after the hit....I never saw him play when he was a two way player(running back and receiver)....he had just two good seasons as a receiver after the hit...
It's sad that, these are really, the only "great" receivers the Giants have ever had.....they were not known for drafting or trading for great receivers, from the mid 60's on....
"The hit"? Please elaborate for the uninitiated amongst us, if you would, Sir.
Productive? Toomer
But Victor Cruz has done things I've seen few players, let alone Giants, do on a football field.
Toomer was underrated outside of NY, ran great routes, was a wizard on the sideline, and had good hands, and stayed healthy, meaning it's hard to see any current Giant surpassing him in production, even Cruz, he'd need like 5 years of 75 catches to pass him in receptions.
Yes, he probably wasn't the most physically talented in our team history, but he had something special whenever he caught a pass.
Nicks made some incredible catches and plays when he was with us. Sad he most likely won't finish his career here.
Over the course of Burress's four seasons here, we got glimpses of the unstoppable juggernaut he should have been. He fell short of Megatron-class in two areas: straight-ahead speed (4.59 40 at the Combine) and everything from the neck up.
He was such a frustrating guy, because he was so good when healthy, but was just always held back by injury. When he was good to go though, man.
His best season was actually with Pittsburgh in 2002, which was around 78 receptions, 1300 yds, and 6 TDs.
His 2011 season alone is unparalleled. I think there is a stat that's something like... He has 7 TDs of 60 yards or more. Even though he's only played 3+ seasons, that's good for 3rd in NFL history behind Randy Moss and Jerry Rice.
He also had the best season by a Giants WR in a super bowl season. And once we have this offense in gear (which seems close) it looks like he's ready to pick up right there again. I understand being gunshy after seeing Nicks fall off the proverbial cliff, but I feel confident in it being Cruz by a long shot.
After him I'd say Sherrard, Toomer, Hilliard, Cruz in no particular order.
The next level Calloway, Manuel, and I'm drawing a blank after that. Maybe Mark Ingram.
Not a knock on Cruz, that's how you get ahead in life, more lamenting what could have been if that other idiot had ever managed to get his head on straight.
IIRC still holds the NFL record for average yards per catch- this in an era when WRs could be mugged down the entire field.
IMO if he were playing today, he'd be the LT of WRs. I guess you could say that about a lot of WRs from the 50s and 60s- Del Shofner IIRC ran the 100 in 9.7, for example
Shoftner, was an amazing talent.....from '61-'63, he was flat out unreal.....but I still haven't forgiven him for that dropped pass in the Bears game...
Amani holds most of the Giant receiving records, because he managed to hang around longer than most....while a number one on our team, he would have been a number two on most others....
Nicks looked like he could be something special....but every time he came down awkwardly, you wondered if he was going to get back up....injuries took their toll on him, and I think he reduced his play/effort, to protect himself, and extend his career...
Plax could have been even better, if not for the space between his ears.....
Gifford was a converted halfback, after the hit....I never saw him play when he was a two way player(running back and receiver)....he had just two good seasons as a receiver after the hit...
It's sad that, these are really, the only "great" receivers the Giants have ever had.....they were not known for drafting or trading for great receivers, from the mid 60's on....
To be fair, my list is based specifically on who I watched as a fan. I personally am not under rating Gifford (or any other WR before the early 80's), I never saw him play except for a few highlights. He may or may not have been more talented than leg shooter.
Shofner had the best combination of talent, speed, and discipline...before he had a run of injuries beginning in 1964 look at his numbers with the Rams and Giants.
Modern era: 1950 onwards based on talent alone:
Jones
Shofner
Burress
Toomer
Cruz
Honorable Mention
Bob Schnelker - listed as WR before the term tight end was used, but more of a TE, slow but good size and a precise route runner.
Kyle Rote - when he became a full time receiver his numbers went up, early injuries in his career didn't help.
Frank Gifford - was a pro bowl FL, but only played there 3 seasons at the end of his career.
Joe Morrison - deceptive but he was needed too often at HB.
Aaron Thomas - hybrid TE/WR in a receivers' body an era when most quality TE's fit the mold Mackey, Ditka, Smith.
Clifton McNeil - had one good season then disappeared.
Mile Sherrard - looked dominant and the Giants offense unstoppable until he was hurt yet again.
Hakeem Nicks - what could have been, size, hands made up for a lack of top end speed.
Solid:
Lionel Manual
Stephen Baker
Mark Ingram
Chris Calloway
Ike Hilliard
Ones that got away:
Bobby Joe Conrad traded
Don Maynard waived
Buddy Dial waived
Ed McCaffrey waived
I'm too young to know anything about some of those older names mentioned
Cruz is highly productive and has that special wiggle after the catch but I think Plax and Nicks both routinely made much more impressive catches with defenders draped all over them. And they both made plays after the catch as well.
Ha! This will obviously be amazing if it ends up to be true!
As for overall "talent", Cruz lacks the hands of a Nicks or Toomer. Lastly, in rating "talent" it's hard to get past the fact that he wasn't drafted, regardless of the circumstances.
In my time as far as pure "talent" goes, I'd go with Nicks. Plax had the sheer size advantage but Nicks had a huge catch radius and better hands (although both dropped plenty of passes). I feel like Nicks was a more talented route runner and got open easier.
As great as Plax was and Cruz has been, the 2 greatest receiving performances I've seen from a Giant WR are Nicks vs. Arizona and Nicks vs. Tampa Bay. Nicks was untouchable those 2 games. And as great as Plax's NFC Championship Game was against the Packers, Nicks was even better against the Packers in 2011.
It's a shame how Nicks is viewed here now because of the way he seemingly quit on the team last year. But he was an absolute beast and imo had a gear that not even Plax had.
Plax made more big plays and he made some plays in huge spots but nicks was the more refined WR in my view.
Remember it was nicks who had the better overall postseason than plax. Plax had the big game in GB. Nicks had a big month.
Id say Plaxico bc him and Eli were great together and he was very dominating. Anything in his area he was going up and coming down with the ball. Amazing catches. Great big target for Eli to just loft a pass his way, if he was one v one, Plax always won.
But for overall career...the well dressed Amani Toomer....didnt have to worry about him dropping a pass,was great at TD's, first down's, toe tapping. He was probably one of the best WR's to ever keep his feet in boundsalong with Chris Carter. He invented the toe drag(not really) but made it a common thing to do. Made it so that all WR's had to make that part of what they bring to a team, the ability to be able to do it every Sunday. Also a classy guy. Wouldnt sabotage a season by bringing a glock to a club either. Had to throw that in there bc that was a killer for our repeat chances in 08. AMANI TOOMER
Ernest Gray was not as good as Burress. He was pretty good though.
BillyBoy8384 : 10:57 am : link : reply
Back in the day the WR's had nowhere near the athletic ability the WR's have now
Many of the wr's who are successful in the NFL today would struggle mightily having to fight through all the grabs, bumps and hits in order to get open if they had to play when contact was allowed until the pass was in the air.
Obviously many would be successful in any era but for many others their game would shrink without being allowed to simply run free.
In my opinion, if I had to choose a starting lineup right now, I say Burress and Homer Jones are my wideouts, and Cruz would be my slot reciever, in the old days they were called Flanker backs. At tight end I would put Mark Bavaro, with Bob Tucker and Shockey as the back ups.
The second string would have Del Shofner and Amani Toomer as the wideouts and Steve Smith in the slot. Just one dummy's opinion. I would have Eli, YA Title and Simms as my 3 QB's. In the biggest game and on the biggest stage I have to put Eli as my starter, no doubt about that.
Calloway! - ( New Window )
you left off kyle rote
and gifford is also one of only two players that was all pro offense and defense with ollie matson
CUT #2
To me, plays like these are underrated and remarkable (and I'm only referring to from a physical ability standpoint... I know no one underrates the importance of the first one). My answer to the OP's question stands because of moves like this.
We are talking about talent, right? You can not defend against that.
But, in my lifetime, I would probably be more inclined to go with Nicks as most talented.
This. Yes.
Homer Jones
Gifford
Plax
Shofner
and then a big drop. Not much talent at WR for the Giants since the 1960's.
Honestly, I'd say Burress was the most talented, but Nicks was definitely had better production. Still, Plax's game in GB...ask Al Harris about that beatdown he gave him.
But I think Nicks was the most physically talented WR I have ever seen in a NY uni, closely followed by Plax
If you go back to the 1950s and 1960s, Homer Jones was physically dominant but not necessarily the most talented receiver (not good hands). Morrison was a grinder. Shofner was smooth but not physical. Gifford was very good and pretty talented but I have to go with Kyle Rote from that era. That guy was a great college RB who was robbed of his speed by injuries but he was as good a receiver as you will ever see. He was absolutely loved by his teammates as half the team named at least one of their kids after him.
I hope Beckham earns a place on this list. As the #12 pick, he should.
I would have loved to see a healthy, young Manningham in a single read offense. It's easy to say he wasn't smart enough for Gilbride's system which I think isn't true. Some guys can't do and think at the same time, which looked pretty obvious with him. Hell I can't walk and talk at the same time.
Shoftner, was an amazing talent.....from '61-'63, he was flat out unreal.....but I still haven't forgiven him for that dropped pass in the Bears game...
Amani holds most of the Giant receiving records, because he managed to hang around longer than most....while a number one on our team, he would have been a number two on most others....
Nicks looked like he could be something special....but every time he came down awkwardly, you wondered if he was going to get back up....injuries took their toll on him, and I think he reduced his play/effort, to protect himself, and extend his career...
Plax could have been even better, if not for the space between his ears.....
Gifford was a converted halfback, after the hit....I never saw him play when he was a two way player(running back and receiver)....he had just two good seasons as a receiver after the hit...
It's sad that, these are really, the only "great" receivers the Giants have ever had.....they were not known for drafting or trading for great receivers, from the mid 60's on....
"The hit"? Please elaborate for the uninitiated amongst us, if you would, Sir.
Seriously? Chuck Bednarik ring a bell?