Gloria Allred's NFL rapist not a Giant

In comment 11891214 Cam in MO said:

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Those who make those accusations are scum- but their reasons IMV aren't anywhere near "feeling dirty" about consensual sex. It's a rejection/revenge action.

Sure. I agree. The reasons are as complex as is a human being. My only point was that these false accusations happen and we won't really know how many. Meanwhile, some college kid's reputation is ruined for life.

In comment 11891271 Big Blue Blogger said:

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But maybe not so far. You're saying a woman would ruin a man's life - and risk ruining her own - to make herself feel better about an indiscretion. I guess it happens. I just can't imagine it being statistically significant.

Going off the deep end is one of my pastimes. No problem.

I also don't know if it's statistically significant. My belief is that we'll never know because of the stigma attached to recanting. Haven't you read the many stories of women recanting years and years after the event, often with the rapist doing twenty to life? Google it up.

Meanwhhile --- Beat the Falcons.

In comment 11891271 Big Blue Blogger said:

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But maybe not so far. You're saying a woman would ruin a man's life - and risk ruining her own - to make herself feel better about an indiscretion. I guess it happens. I just can't imagine it being statistically significant.

I'm also not convinced that if a woman were to find herself in a scenario where she felt regret for having sex with someone (consensually), that a) she'd lie about being raped thinking it would make herself feel better while b) at the same time ruining someone else's life.

I haven't seen any data suggesting this happens enough to make this aspect worth discussing.

That isn't remotely the same as women holding wealthy men (pro athletes, for example) hostage with the rape allegation as a tactic to obtain money from them. Nor is it to say that even in this case, that the number in question even approaches a significant percent. We've seen how many of these young (and sometimes not-so-young) men conduct themselves poorly so that sexual misconduct wouldn't be an outlandish claim.

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In comment 11891329 njm said:

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In comment 11891274 Dunedin81 said: Quote: They're not. We need to treat rape the way we treat other crime and not reflexively distrust the victim or minimize the offense until it is not one. That's what the George Wills of the world don't get. It is a poisonous notion that keeps victims, yes real victims, from coming forward and comforts and reassures those who commit acts of sexual violence. I think the push to get universities to set up what are essentially kangaroo courts has something to do with the "Will" attitude. Yes, treat it the way we treat other crimes. But that means the defendant can retain counsel and can question his accuser.

Will is conflating the two. As I mentioned above, kangaroo courts are both overbroad and underbroad. On the one hand they probably bring in a class of alleged offender whose actions perhaps ought not be criminal, and they subject him to serious consequences. On the other hand they can preclude prosecution of serious criminals - some of whom really are predators - by mucking up evidence and by purporting to stand in for the criminal justice system. And I don't minimize the importance of this to the former class. But understand that those individuals, while we should certainly attempt to prevent inappropriate punishment of them, pale in number compared to the women who do not come forward. Here in Central Virginia a local politician was accused of forcible sodomy. When he was finally in shackles multiple victims came forward and said the same thing had been done to them. It STILL resulted in misdemeanor charges because it is very difficult to prove.

And the fact is that the University involvement has resulted in a 2-tier criminal law system: University proceedings for comparative wealthy college boys and public criminal courts for the working class and poor.

Of course the University proceedings are lame and don't even do a good job at adjudication over the matters they do have jurisdiction over, but I'm sure a guy facing serious jail time would take that over the worst sanctions a University proceeding could mete out: Expulsion, kicking a frat off campus, bring kicked off a team or suspended from school.

Universities should be required by law to turn all sexual assault cases over to the police, not campus police. Such matters belong with a criminal justice system that is competent to adjudicate them.

Universities do have internal codes of conduct, and they do have the right to impose University sanctions of expulsion, suspension, etc. But it is wrong that these kinds of proceedings have evolved into an alternative to criminal prosecution. They can and should run parallel to criminal proceedings.

In comment 11891449 Dunedin81 said:

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In comment 11891329 njm said: Quote: In comment 11891274 Dunedin81 said: Quote: They're not. We need to treat rape the way we treat other crime and not reflexively distrust the victim or minimize the offense until it is not one. That's what the George Wills of the world don't get. It is a poisonous notion that keeps victims, yes real victims, from coming forward and comforts and reassures those who commit acts of sexual violence. I think the push to get universities to set up what are essentially kangaroo courts has something to do with the "Will" attitude. Yes, treat it the way we treat other crimes. But that means the defendant can retain counsel and can question his accuser. Will is conflating the two. As I mentioned above, kangaroo courts are both overbroad and underbroad. On the one hand they probably bring in a class of alleged offender whose actions perhaps ought not be criminal, and they subject him to serious consequences. On the other hand they can preclude prosecution of serious criminals - some of whom really are predators - by mucking up evidence and by purporting to stand in for the criminal justice system. And I don't minimize the importance of this to the former class. But understand that those individuals, while we should certainly attempt to prevent inappropriate punishment of them, pale in number compared to the women who do not come forward. Here in Central Virginia a local politician was accused of forcible sodomy. When he was finally in shackles multiple victims came forward and said the same thing had been done to them. It STILL resulted in misdemeanor charges because it is very difficult to prove.

But would the additional victims in the Central Virginia case have come forward if the case had gone to a university panel?

but probably not. The publicity, the understanding that these women were not alone, is what brought them out. And even in campus kangaroo courts, that sort of publicity is rarely effected. The point is that focusing on the supposed kangaroo courts becomes just another way to deflect attention from the suffering of those women and onto the handful of men who are allegedly railroaded.

...than the schools? The criminal justice system has plenty of authority to compel cooperation if they really want the cases. I understand that there may be a problem with the handling of evidence, but that seems like a solvable training issue - one that comes into play any time private security acts in the capacity of first responder. It's not unique to campuses, or to sex crimes.

you don't want the same folks that patrol public housing and the rundown neighborhoods to be responding to noise complaints in campus dorms. You want a college kids will be college kids approach to everything but serious crime. Otherwise all it takes is one profiling incident, one excessive force complaint, to turn the narrative from preventing sexual assault to out of control police.

In comment 11891505 Dunedin81 said:

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but probably not. The publicity, the understanding that these women were not alone, is what brought them out. And even in campus kangaroo courts, that sort of publicity is rarely effected. The point is that focusing on the supposed kangaroo courts becomes just another way to deflect attention from the suffering of those women and onto the handful of men who are allegedly railroaded.

But aren't there more viable alternatives, methods of support which are CLEARLY needed, than the university panels? Not for one minute am I suggesting that these women be left in the cold. I'm just questioning whether this is the best solution.

Is that the panels suck, that Schnitzies solution is probably as good as it gets, and that my concern is that people who are wistful for the old reasonable force standard are happy to conflate this with court treatment of rapists when they're basically two issues.

Any updates?

reporting... CJ Spillman being investigated.. not sure if it's the same deal as this

[url]http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/cowboys-player-accused-sexually-assaulting-woman-article-1.1960275?cid=bitly?$242424&utm_content=bufferc0d5f&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDailyNewsTw[/url]

cowboys

not sure why the link didn't work..copy and paste boys